Yep, this has humiliated him. Wonder if any guys thinking of a coup will get hope from this. Seems Putin isn't prepared for this type of thing at all. Shame the army didn't just back him and say feck it.
In my humble opinion what I think happened was that Prighozin was given promises that if he made it to Moscow he’d have support and would be able to take over but for whatever reason on his journey that support was pulled away leaving him isolated so he had to back out.
And because Putin needs Wagner he had to let Prighozin live or else lose the best fighting force Russia have.
Or…. It was all an elaborate plot to have Wagner “takeover” Rostov, load Priggo with some Nukes and set up camp in Bello to mount a northern flank
Wagner are now stationed in Belarus , just 100km from Kiev
Maybe not too elaborate for it to be staged after all
comment by peks - Supreme Commander (U6618)
posted 7 minutes ago
Wagner are now stationed in Belarus , just 100km from Kiev
----------------------------------------------------------------------
*Kyiv
The nukes to BLR were happening anyway.
Western intel would have spotted Wagner moving in anyway.
Why make Putin look weak in the process?
Unless his advisors really are that stupid?
Would he have bothered to shat it to his dacha?
Would Lukashenko (or his family) bother to shat it to Turkey?
Would he bother to destroy the fuel dump in Voronezh ?
Missiles at a chopper?
Digging up the M4?
All seems a bit elaborate?
Doubtful how many Wagner sign up to fight though as Putin appears to have taken the cash stash they won't get paid otherwise? Would be good for Ukraine to have 20k+ motivated men removed from the front line.
On the face of it Prigozhin has lost everything except his life...so far? He's not that stupid. Worst outcome would be his desperation to get out cos he knows tactical nukes are imminent.
comment by Robb Cummins-Lyon (U22716)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by peks - Supreme Commander (U6618)
posted 7 minutes ago
Wagner are now stationed in Belarus , just 100km from Kiev
----------------------------------------------------------------------
*Kyiv
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Peks not even hiding it
comment by Robb Cummins-Lyon (U22716)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by peks - Supreme Commander (U6618)
posted 7 minutes ago
Wagner are now stationed in Belarus , just 100km from Kiev
----------------------------------------------------------------------
*Kyiv
----------------------------------------------------------------------
most people in Kiev are native Russian speakers, such as Zelensky
Ukrainian is only the mother tongue of people in Western Ukraine
https://reconsideringrussia.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/ukraine-language-map.png?w=848
All seems a bit elaborate?
——————
Look, I don’t actually think it’s anything but a colossal clusterfeck. But you can’t take anything off the table and just dismiss it. You only have to look through the history of warfare and some of the ridiculously elaborate ploys that military leaders/politicians have come up with. The madder something seems, the more easily it is dismissed as an option by the opposition.
comment by Robb Cummins-Lyon (U22716)
posted 37 minutes ago
comment by peks - Supreme Commander (U6618)
posted 7 minutes ago
Wagner are now stationed in Belarus , just 100km from Kiev
----------------------------------------------------------------------
*Kyiv
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Any single one of those mercenary butchering raapist war criminals sets foot over the border in the direction of Kyiv, and they should have 100 tonnes of napalm dropped on their heads.
comment by peks - Supreme Commander (U6618)
posted 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
https://reconsideringrussia.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/ukraine-language-map.png?w=848
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Russian propaganda
Other online sources and the 2001 census of Ukraine paint a completely different picture. Census data is generally self-declared, so probably closer to the truth than a website whose own name invites people to consider Russia in a different light.
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by peks - Supreme Commander (U6618)
posted 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
https://reconsideringrussia.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/ukraine-language-map.png?w=848
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Russian propaganda
Other online sources and the 2001 census of Ukraine paint a completely different picture. Census data is generally self-declared, so probably closer to the truth than a website whose own name invites people to consider Russia in a different light.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are the census results in graphic format:
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:UkraineNativeLanguagesCensus2001detailed-en.png#mw-jump-to-license
As you say, it paints a very different picture, indeed.
According to the census, Ukrainian is spoken regularly by 81% of Ukraine's population in their personal life, and as high as 87% at work or study.
The official language of the country is Ukrainian, and the name of the capital city of the country in Ukrainian is Kyiv.
Speaking Russian (not that I can) was frowned upon when I visited Kyiv.
What I assumed was Russian grafitti had been daubed out on walls.
comment by peks - Supreme Commander (U6618)
posted 1 hour, 41 minutes ago
Wagner are now stationed in Belarus , just 100km from Kiev
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wouldn’t worry, he’ll probably chicken out of any attack….
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by peks - Supreme Commander (U6618)
posted 1 hour, 41 minutes ago
Wagner are now stationed in Belarus , just 100km from Kiev
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wouldn’t worry, he’ll probably chicken out of any attack….
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite a feat getting 25k men and war machinery a 17hr drive at very best all done in under 12hrs
Reports I have seen are not exactly clear on this but where are the Wagner troops exactly..
It is understood that their leader is being exiled in Belarus, but where are his 25000 supposed men. You can’t exactly smuggle them into Belarus unseen.
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernançalvemiro triumvirate (U17054)
posted 57 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by peks - Supreme Commander (U6618)
posted 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
https://reconsideringrussia.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/ukraine-language-map.png?w=848
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Russian propaganda
Other online sources and the 2001 census of Ukraine paint a completely different picture. Census data is generally self-declared, so probably closer to the truth than a website whose own name invites people to consider Russia in a different light.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are the census results in graphic format:
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:UkraineNativeLanguagesCensus2001detailed-en.png#mw-jump-to-license
As you say, it paints a very different picture, indeed.
According to the census, Ukrainian is spoken regularly by 81% of Ukraine's population in their personal life, and as high as 87% at work or study.
The official language of the country is Ukrainian, and the name of the capital city of the country in Ukrainian is Kyiv.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I tried to link that map from the page where I found it, but the link got rejected by the ja606 swear filter, because because it contained an f followed by a u and a k.
Ironically enough, this is stuff pekster actually used to know at the start of the conflict, but he has since unlearnt it and reconditioned himself to know it differently.
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 41 minutes ago
Reports I have seen are not exactly clear on this but where are the Wagner troops exactly..
It is understood that their leader is being exiled in Belarus, but where are his 25000 supposed men. You can’t exactly smuggle them into Belarus unseen.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weren't they 'offered' army contracts? You'd imagine if that's the case they'll be making their way back to Ukraine.
comment by There'sOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 41 minutes ago
Reports I have seen are not exactly clear on this but where are the Wagner troops exactly..
It is understood that their leader is being exiled in Belarus, but where are his 25000 supposed men. You can’t exactly smuggle them into Belarus unseen.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weren't they 'offered' army contracts? You'd imagine if that's the case they'll be making their way back to Ukraine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is hard to say. The reporting on it has been very poor.
Yesterday they were supposedly moving towards Moscow at a speed a well run and professional convoy is incapable of moving at. Let alone a very poorly supplied one.
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by There'sOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 41 minutes ago
Reports I have seen are not exactly clear on this but where are the Wagner troops exactly..
It is understood that their leader is being exiled in Belarus, but where are his 25000 supposed men. You can’t exactly smuggle them into Belarus unseen.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weren't they 'offered' army contracts? You'd imagine if that's the case they'll be making their way back to Ukraine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is hard to say. The reporting on it has been very poor.
Yesterday they were supposedly moving towards Moscow at a speed a well run and professional convoy is incapable of moving at. Let alone a very poorly supplied one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Seemed like normal timing to me. Arrived in Rostov-on-don early hours of the morning, around 3am IIRC and were a couple of hundred km off Moscow before calling it off last night. Google maps has a car there in 12 hours. They took 24 hours from their starting point in Ukraine to 200km outside Moscow, whilst meeting no challenge.
comment by There'sOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by There'sOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 41 minutes ago
Reports I have seen are not exactly clear on this but where are the Wagner troops exactly..
It is understood that their leader is being exiled in Belarus, but where are his 25000 supposed men. You can’t exactly smuggle them into Belarus unseen.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weren't they 'offered' army contracts? You'd imagine if that's the case they'll be making their way back to Ukraine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is hard to say. The reporting on it has been very poor.
Yesterday they were supposedly moving towards Moscow at a speed a well run and professional convoy is incapable of moving at. Let alone a very poorly supplied one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Seemed like normal timing to me. Arrived in Rostov-on-don early hours of the morning, around 3am IIRC and were a couple of hundred km off Moscow before calling it off last night. Google maps has a car there in 12 hours. They took 24 hours from their starting point in Ukraine to 200km outside Moscow, whilst meeting no challenge.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty sure tanks and armoured vehicles etc move at a much slower pace. Especially people carriers that are carrying supposedly 25,000 people.
I have seen no evidence in the last year plus of Russia being able to move vehicles and troops at any kind of speed what so ever.
We have seen frequent satellite images of convoys that have been stuck due to lack of supplies and fuel.
Logistically this just doesn’t add up.
Lots of things don't add up!
Leaving $40m cash in a bus and van at HQ in StP when you are about to severely pash off the president is another one!
As others have said it might just be a manoeuvre to start a Northern front and take Kyiv using a supposedly disenfranchised Wagner whilst the Ukranians think they are making advances towards Crimea.
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 8 minutes ago
Lots of things don't add up!
Leaving $40m cash in a bus and van at HQ in StP when you are about to severely pash off the president is another one!
As others have said it might just be a manoeuvre to start a Northern front and take Kyiv using a supposedly disenfranchised Wagner whilst the Ukranians think they are making advances towards Crimea.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The other thing that does not add up to me is that with the Air Power Putin would have to protect Moscow he should have been able to take out or at the very minimum stall this convoy.
Something smells very fishy here and I am not talking about the contents of Baldricks apple crumble:
Sign in if you want to comment
Wagner vs Russia
Page 11 of 16
12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16
posted on 25/6/23
Yep, this has humiliated him. Wonder if any guys thinking of a coup will get hope from this. Seems Putin isn't prepared for this type of thing at all. Shame the army didn't just back him and say feck it.
posted on 25/6/23
In my humble opinion what I think happened was that Prighozin was given promises that if he made it to Moscow he’d have support and would be able to take over but for whatever reason on his journey that support was pulled away leaving him isolated so he had to back out.
And because Putin needs Wagner he had to let Prighozin live or else lose the best fighting force Russia have.
posted on 25/6/23
Or…. It was all an elaborate plot to have Wagner “takeover” Rostov, load Priggo with some Nukes and set up camp in Bello to mount a northern flank
posted on 25/6/23
Wagner are now stationed in Belarus , just 100km from Kiev
posted on 25/6/23
Maybe not too elaborate for it to be staged after all
posted on 25/6/23
comment by peks - Supreme Commander (U6618)
posted 7 minutes ago
Wagner are now stationed in Belarus , just 100km from Kiev
----------------------------------------------------------------------
*Kyiv
posted on 25/6/23
The nukes to BLR were happening anyway.
Western intel would have spotted Wagner moving in anyway.
Why make Putin look weak in the process?
Unless his advisors really are that stupid?
Would he have bothered to shat it to his dacha?
Would Lukashenko (or his family) bother to shat it to Turkey?
Would he bother to destroy the fuel dump in Voronezh ?
Missiles at a chopper?
Digging up the M4?
All seems a bit elaborate?
Doubtful how many Wagner sign up to fight though as Putin appears to have taken the cash stash they won't get paid otherwise? Would be good for Ukraine to have 20k+ motivated men removed from the front line.
On the face of it Prigozhin has lost everything except his life...so far? He's not that stupid. Worst outcome would be his desperation to get out cos he knows tactical nukes are imminent.
posted on 25/6/23
comment by Robb Cummins-Lyon (U22716)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by peks - Supreme Commander (U6618)
posted 7 minutes ago
Wagner are now stationed in Belarus , just 100km from Kiev
----------------------------------------------------------------------
*Kyiv
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Peks not even hiding it
posted on 25/6/23
comment by Robb Cummins-Lyon (U22716)
posted 11 minutes ago
comment by peks - Supreme Commander (U6618)
posted 7 minutes ago
Wagner are now stationed in Belarus , just 100km from Kiev
----------------------------------------------------------------------
*Kyiv
----------------------------------------------------------------------
most people in Kiev are native Russian speakers, such as Zelensky
Ukrainian is only the mother tongue of people in Western Ukraine
posted on 25/6/23
https://reconsideringrussia.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/ukraine-language-map.png?w=848
posted on 25/6/23
All seems a bit elaborate?
——————
Look, I don’t actually think it’s anything but a colossal clusterfeck. But you can’t take anything off the table and just dismiss it. You only have to look through the history of warfare and some of the ridiculously elaborate ploys that military leaders/politicians have come up with. The madder something seems, the more easily it is dismissed as an option by the opposition.
posted on 25/6/23
comment by Robb Cummins-Lyon (U22716)
posted 37 minutes ago
comment by peks - Supreme Commander (U6618)
posted 7 minutes ago
Wagner are now stationed in Belarus , just 100km from Kiev
----------------------------------------------------------------------
*Kyiv
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Any single one of those mercenary butchering raapist war criminals sets foot over the border in the direction of Kyiv, and they should have 100 tonnes of napalm dropped on their heads.
posted on 25/6/23
comment by peks - Supreme Commander (U6618)
posted 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
https://reconsideringrussia.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/ukraine-language-map.png?w=848
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Russian propaganda
Other online sources and the 2001 census of Ukraine paint a completely different picture. Census data is generally self-declared, so probably closer to the truth than a website whose own name invites people to consider Russia in a different light.
posted on 25/6/23
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by peks - Supreme Commander (U6618)
posted 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
https://reconsideringrussia.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/ukraine-language-map.png?w=848
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Russian propaganda
Other online sources and the 2001 census of Ukraine paint a completely different picture. Census data is generally self-declared, so probably closer to the truth than a website whose own name invites people to consider Russia in a different light.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are the census results in graphic format:
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:UkraineNativeLanguagesCensus2001detailed-en.png#mw-jump-to-license
As you say, it paints a very different picture, indeed.
According to the census, Ukrainian is spoken regularly by 81% of Ukraine's population in their personal life, and as high as 87% at work or study.
The official language of the country is Ukrainian, and the name of the capital city of the country in Ukrainian is Kyiv.
posted on 25/6/23
Speaking Russian (not that I can) was frowned upon when I visited Kyiv.
What I assumed was Russian grafitti had been daubed out on walls.
posted on 25/6/23
comment by peks - Supreme Commander (U6618)
posted 1 hour, 41 minutes ago
Wagner are now stationed in Belarus , just 100km from Kiev
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wouldn’t worry, he’ll probably chicken out of any attack….
posted on 25/6/23
comment by Terminator1 (U1863)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by peks - Supreme Commander (U6618)
posted 1 hour, 41 minutes ago
Wagner are now stationed in Belarus , just 100km from Kiev
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wouldn’t worry, he’ll probably chicken out of any attack….
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite a feat getting 25k men and war machinery a 17hr drive at very best all done in under 12hrs
posted on 25/6/23
Reports I have seen are not exactly clear on this but where are the Wagner troops exactly..
It is understood that their leader is being exiled in Belarus, but where are his 25000 supposed men. You can’t exactly smuggle them into Belarus unseen.
posted on 25/6/23
comment by rosso says the time has come to unlock the unlimited Pote-ntial of the Fernançalvemiro triumvirate (U17054)
posted 57 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by peks - Supreme Commander (U6618)
posted 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
https://reconsideringrussia.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/ukraine-language-map.png?w=848
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Russian propaganda
Other online sources and the 2001 census of Ukraine paint a completely different picture. Census data is generally self-declared, so probably closer to the truth than a website whose own name invites people to consider Russia in a different light.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are the census results in graphic format:
https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:UkraineNativeLanguagesCensus2001detailed-en.png#mw-jump-to-license
As you say, it paints a very different picture, indeed.
According to the census, Ukrainian is spoken regularly by 81% of Ukraine's population in their personal life, and as high as 87% at work or study.
The official language of the country is Ukrainian, and the name of the capital city of the country in Ukrainian is Kyiv.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I tried to link that map from the page where I found it, but the link got rejected by the ja606 swear filter, because because it contained an f followed by a u and a k.
Ironically enough, this is stuff pekster actually used to know at the start of the conflict, but he has since unlearnt it and reconditioned himself to know it differently.
posted on 25/6/23
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 41 minutes ago
Reports I have seen are not exactly clear on this but where are the Wagner troops exactly..
It is understood that their leader is being exiled in Belarus, but where are his 25000 supposed men. You can’t exactly smuggle them into Belarus unseen.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weren't they 'offered' army contracts? You'd imagine if that's the case they'll be making their way back to Ukraine.
posted on 25/6/23
comment by There'sOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 41 minutes ago
Reports I have seen are not exactly clear on this but where are the Wagner troops exactly..
It is understood that their leader is being exiled in Belarus, but where are his 25000 supposed men. You can’t exactly smuggle them into Belarus unseen.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weren't they 'offered' army contracts? You'd imagine if that's the case they'll be making their way back to Ukraine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is hard to say. The reporting on it has been very poor.
Yesterday they were supposedly moving towards Moscow at a speed a well run and professional convoy is incapable of moving at. Let alone a very poorly supplied one.
posted on 25/6/23
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by There'sOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 41 minutes ago
Reports I have seen are not exactly clear on this but where are the Wagner troops exactly..
It is understood that their leader is being exiled in Belarus, but where are his 25000 supposed men. You can’t exactly smuggle them into Belarus unseen.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weren't they 'offered' army contracts? You'd imagine if that's the case they'll be making their way back to Ukraine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is hard to say. The reporting on it has been very poor.
Yesterday they were supposedly moving towards Moscow at a speed a well run and professional convoy is incapable of moving at. Let alone a very poorly supplied one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Seemed like normal timing to me. Arrived in Rostov-on-don early hours of the morning, around 3am IIRC and were a couple of hundred km off Moscow before calling it off last night. Google maps has a car there in 12 hours. They took 24 hours from their starting point in Ukraine to 200km outside Moscow, whilst meeting no challenge.
posted on 25/6/23
comment by There'sOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by There'sOne7-0Reds (U1721)
posted 5 seconds ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 41 minutes ago
Reports I have seen are not exactly clear on this but where are the Wagner troops exactly..
It is understood that their leader is being exiled in Belarus, but where are his 25000 supposed men. You can’t exactly smuggle them into Belarus unseen.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Weren't they 'offered' army contracts? You'd imagine if that's the case they'll be making their way back to Ukraine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is hard to say. The reporting on it has been very poor.
Yesterday they were supposedly moving towards Moscow at a speed a well run and professional convoy is incapable of moving at. Let alone a very poorly supplied one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Seemed like normal timing to me. Arrived in Rostov-on-don early hours of the morning, around 3am IIRC and were a couple of hundred km off Moscow before calling it off last night. Google maps has a car there in 12 hours. They took 24 hours from their starting point in Ukraine to 200km outside Moscow, whilst meeting no challenge.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty sure tanks and armoured vehicles etc move at a much slower pace. Especially people carriers that are carrying supposedly 25,000 people.
I have seen no evidence in the last year plus of Russia being able to move vehicles and troops at any kind of speed what so ever.
We have seen frequent satellite images of convoys that have been stuck due to lack of supplies and fuel.
Logistically this just doesn’t add up.
posted on 25/6/23
Lots of things don't add up!
Leaving $40m cash in a bus and van at HQ in StP when you are about to severely pash off the president is another one!
As others have said it might just be a manoeuvre to start a Northern front and take Kyiv using a supposedly disenfranchised Wagner whilst the Ukranians think they are making advances towards Crimea.
posted on 25/6/23
comment by Silver (U6112)
posted 8 minutes ago
Lots of things don't add up!
Leaving $40m cash in a bus and van at HQ in StP when you are about to severely pash off the president is another one!
As others have said it might just be a manoeuvre to start a Northern front and take Kyiv using a supposedly disenfranchised Wagner whilst the Ukranians think they are making advances towards Crimea.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The other thing that does not add up to me is that with the Air Power Putin would have to protect Moscow he should have been able to take out or at the very minimum stall this convoy.
Something smells very fishy here and I am not talking about the contents of Baldricks apple crumble:
Page 11 of 16
12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16