comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
Imagine tthe reaction to Nike tinkering with the Stars and Stripes, Irish Tricolore, Palestinian flag.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
That may have changed in our current era, and I imagine a lot of Welsh / Scottish / Irish people have a different perspective on this, but...
One of the healthier strands in our national self-identity has been an ability to interact with a certain irony or playfulness with our Britishness/Englishness, to feel that it doesn't weigh us down too much. When I go to countries where the flag is everywhere and where everyone is expected to treat it with po-faced reverence (the USA is quite similar to Putin's Russia in that respect), I find that quite oppressive. It's something I've always valued about my country that it has the self-confidence to not take itself too seriously, to do things with a light touch. I suppose the differing sensibilities about this England kit reflect differing political-cultural sensibilities. If you generally like England, like its cultural innovativeness and capacity for reinvention, you're probably not going to be upset about referencing another colour associated with England football in a design feature that references the flag. If you feel your sense of national identity is besieged by the forces of cultural/societal change, then this may feel like a big deal.
As for RDD's specific examples:
- the USA (despite its cult of flag) regularly does use stylised versions that reference the flag while changing colours etc. See the 1994 USMNT shirt for instance.
- Ireland: with a tricolour design it's hard to change the colours without it being unrecognisable. That design option isn't really available. Therefore designers are more likely to take those colours and use them in different patterns.
- Gaza is currently experiencing what I would describe as a genocidal assault. You'd therefore expect that a Palestinian's cultural sensibilities about their identity would naturally be quite different from someone from England. I'd suggest that an English institution playing around with a national symbol has quite a different import than a Palestinian one doing the same.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you one of these people who have conversations with your dog, thinking that they can understand what you are saying? Or are you addressing the rest of the room rather than specifically RDD? As surely you know he can't read or comprehend what you are saying? It is OK, his vision is based on movement so can't really see what we are saying, so won't get upset by us mocking him.
comment by Willie Dyer (U1734)
posted 2 seconds ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
Imagine tthe reaction to Nike tinkering with the Stars and Stripes, Irish Tricolore, Palestinian flag.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
That may have changed in our current era, and I imagine a lot of Welsh / Scottish / Irish people have a different perspective on this, but...
One of the healthier strands in our national self-identity has been an ability to interact with a certain irony or playfulness with our Britishness/Englishness, to feel that it doesn't weigh us down too much. When I go to countries where the flag is everywhere and where everyone is expected to treat it with po-faced reverence (the USA is quite similar to Putin's Russia in that respect), I find that quite oppressive. It's something I've always valued about my country that it has the self-confidence to not take itself too seriously, to do things with a light touch. I suppose the differing sensibilities about this England kit reflect differing political-cultural sensibilities. If you generally like England, like its cultural innovativeness and capacity for reinvention, you're probably not going to be upset about referencing another colour associated with England football in a design feature that references the flag. If you feel your sense of national identity is besieged by the forces of cultural/societal change, then this may feel like a big deal.
As for RDD's specific examples:
- the USA (despite its cult of flag) regularly does use stylised versions that reference the flag while changing colours etc. See the 1994 USMNT shirt for instance.
- Ireland: with a tricolour design it's hard to change the colours without it being unrecognisable. That design option isn't really available. Therefore designers are more likely to take those colours and use them in different patterns.
- Gaza is currently experiencing what I would describe as a genocidal assault. You'd therefore expect that a Palestinian's cultural sensibilities about their identity would naturally be quite different from someone from England. I'd suggest that an English institution playing around with a national symbol has quite a different import than a Palestinian one doing the same.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you one of these people who have conversations with your dog, thinking that they can understand what you are saying? Or are you addressing the rest of the room rather than specifically RDD? As surely you know he can't read or comprehend what you are saying? It is OK, his vision is based on movement so can't really see what we are saying, so won't get upset by us mocking him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not bad Baz
comment by Old_Evertonian (U23158)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - I taught Szoboszlai how to cushion half volleys (U6374)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I did, I don't see any purple. Point it out to me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s right there on the cuff. Don’t you get embarrassed?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://content.easyliveauction.com/auctions/images_lots/1C72F36708918955CA355177AEABBDEB_sta02/1100170901.JPG
Don't you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nope
https://footballshirtcollective.com/products/1966-alf-ramsey-england-retro-umbro-football-track-top-jacket-s-world-cup-66?pr_prod_strat=e5_desc&pr_rec_id=11807ab99&pr_rec_pid=8102554599671&pr_ref_pid=7930530463991&pr_seq=uniform
Clapfree in the bin YET AGAIN
Love it
comment by Willie Dyer (U1734)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Willie Dyer (U1734)
posted 36 seconds ago
comment by Willie Dyer (U1734)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 10 minutes ago
Imagine tthe reaction to Nike tinkering with the Stars and Stripes, Irish Tricolore, Palestinian flag.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9782677/Hannity-condemns-U-S-Olympic-Committees-proposal-redesign-flag-logo.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Team USA are literally proposing to change the stars and stripes. Thoughts?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How has that gone down?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty much the exact same monngos as yourself in America with the same reaction as you to a slight design change to make it look better on their kit. The colours on the flag, on that England kit, make it look better from a design point of view, on that particular strip. Same with using fewer but larger stars on the US flag, from a design point of view. But your brain is made of seaweed so you don't understand these types of things.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How have I reacted Bro?
comment by Robbing Hoody - I taught Szoboszlai how to cushion half volleys (U6374)
Don't you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nope
https://footballshirtcollective.com/products/1966-alf-ramsey-england-retro-umbro-football-track-top-jacket-s-world-cup-66?pr_prod_strat=e5_desc&pr_rec_id=11807ab99&pr_rec_pid=8102554599671&pr_ref_pid=7930530463991&pr_seq=uniform
Clapfree in the bin YET AGAIN
Love it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets just zoom in so you can see the trick of the light
https://footballshirtcollective.com/cdn/shop/files/1966-alf-ramsey-england-retro-umbro-football-track-top-jacket-xxl-bnwt-world-cup-39813490311415_5000x.jpg?v=1684934348
Keep digging this hole
comment by Striketeam7 - There used to be a football club over there (U18109)
posted 27 minutes ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - I taught Szoboszlai how to cushion half volleys (U6374)
posted 42 seconds ago
We should just have a picture of gammon on the collar and have done with it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It should be Basil Fawlty man handling Manuel with a speech bubble saying “now that’s how a German would do it”
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t mention the war. I mentioned it once but I think I got away with it. Absolute classic
comment by Old_Evertonian (U23158)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - I taught Szoboszlai how to cushion half volleys (U6374)
Don't you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nope
https://footballshirtcollective.com/products/1966-alf-ramsey-england-retro-umbro-football-track-top-jacket-s-world-cup-66?pr_prod_strat=e5_desc&pr_rec_id=11807ab99&pr_rec_pid=8102554599671&pr_ref_pid=7930530463991&pr_seq=uniform
Clapfree in the bin YET AGAIN
Love it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets just zoom in so you can see the trick of the light
https://footballshirtcollective.com/cdn/shop/files/1966-alf-ramsey-england-retro-umbro-football-track-top-jacket-xxl-bnwt-world-cup-39813490311415_5000x.jpg?v=tel:1684934348
Keep digging this hole
---------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you function?
Tricks of light have you outraged now. Lovely stuff
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Willie Dyer (U1734)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Willie Dyer (U1734)
posted 36 seconds ago
comment by Willie Dyer (U1734)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 10 minutes ago
Imagine tthe reaction to Nike tinkering with the Stars and Stripes, Irish Tricolore, Palestinian flag.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9782677/Hannity-condemns-U-S-Olympic-Committees-proposal-redesign-flag-logo.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Team USA are literally proposing to change the stars and stripes. Thoughts?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How has that gone down?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty much the exact same monngos as yourself in America with the same reaction as you to a slight design change to make it look better on their kit. The colours on the flag, on that England kit, make it look better from a design point of view, on that particular strip. Same with using fewer but larger stars on the US flag, from a design point of view. But your brain is made of seaweed so you don't understand these types of things.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How have I reacted Bro?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like a monggo, as I said.
IM OUTRAGED BY THIS! I DEMAND TO BE ACKNOWLEDGED!!
For the record if this was Ireland I also wouldn’t give a fook.
Can someone give me and RDD and Barry summary? Preferably Barry.
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 59 seconds ago
IM OUTRAGED BY THIS! I DEMAND TO BE ACKNOWLEDGED!!
For the record if this was Ireland I also wouldn’t give a fook.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So why would you be outraged by a different country’s flag change? That makes no sense….
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 59 seconds ago
IM OUTRAGED BY THIS! I DEMAND TO BE ACKNOWLEDGED!!
For the record if this was Ireland I also wouldn’t give a fook.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So why would you be outraged by a different country’s flag change? That makes no sense….
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Satters I’m laughing at those offended by it
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 13 minutes ago
Imagine tthe reaction to Nike tinkering with the Stars and Stripes, Irish Tricolore, Palestinian flag.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
That may have changed in our current era, and I imagine a lot of Welsh / Scottish / Irish people have a different perspective on this, but...
One of the healthier strands in our national self-identity has been an ability to interact with a certain irony or playfulness with our Britishness/Englishness, to feel that it doesn't weigh us down too much. When I go to countries where the flag is everywhere and where everyone is expected to treat it with po-faced reverence (the USA is quite similar to Putin's Russia in that respect), I find that quite oppressive. It's something I've always valued about my country that it has the self-confidence to not take itself too seriously, to do things with a light touch. I suppose the differing sensibilities about this England kit reflect differing political-cultural sensibilities. If you generally like England, like its cultural innovativeness and capacity for reinvention, you're probably not going to be upset about referencing another colour associated with England football in a design feature that references the flag. If you feel your sense of national identity is besieged by the forces of cultural/societal change, then this may feel like a big deal.
As for RDD's specific examples:
- the USA (despite its cult of flag) regularly does use stylised versions that reference the flag while changing colours etc. See the 1994 USMNT shirt for instance.
- Ireland: with a tricolour design it's hard to change the colours without it being unrecognisable. That design option isn't really available. Therefore designers are more likely to take those colours and use them in different patterns.
- Gaza is currently experiencing what I would describe as a genocidal assault. You'd therefore expect that a Palestinian's cultural sensibilities about their identity would naturally be quite different from someone from England. I'd suggest that an English institution playing around with a national symbol has quite a different import than a Palestinian one doing the same.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Surely a Pink, Yellow and Red Tricolour on an Irish football shirt would be just as recognisable as a pink St George's is on an England shirt?
And I think the Palestinians have much more tk be concerned with than their football shirt, but you can bet your bottom dollar, there would be uproar of it were altered
Will you all shut up about the flag now. Kate loves it so case closed!
https://x.com/DBW77/status/1771164081757569472?s=20
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 59 seconds ago
IM OUTRAGED BY THIS! I DEMAND TO BE ACKNOWLEDGED!!
For the record if this was Ireland I also wouldn’t give a fook.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So why would you be outraged by a different country’s flag change? That makes no sense….
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Satters I’m laughing at those offended by it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know bro. You’re not the only one allowed to make jokes 😘
Surely a Pink, Yellow and Red Tricolour on an Irish football shirt would be just as recognisable as a pink St George's is on an England shirt?
Wouldn’t bother me (the Irish part)
comment by Willie Dyer (U1734)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Willie Dyer (U1734)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Willie Dyer (U1734)
posted 36 seconds ago
comment by Willie Dyer (U1734)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 10 minutes ago
Imagine tthe reaction to Nike tinkering with the Stars and Stripes, Irish Tricolore, Palestinian flag.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9782677/Hannity-condemns-U-S-Olympic-Committees-proposal-redesign-flag-logo.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Team USA are literally proposing to change the stars and stripes. Thoughts?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How has that gone down?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty much the exact same monngos as yourself in America with the same reaction as you to a slight design change to make it look better on their kit. The colours on the flag, on that England kit, make it look better from a design point of view, on that particular strip. Same with using fewer but larger stars on the US flag, from a design point of view. But your brain is made of seaweed so you don't understand these types of things.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How have I reacted Bro?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like a monggo, as I said.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What lovely language.
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 59 seconds ago
IM OUTRAGED BY THIS! I DEMAND TO BE ACKNOWLEDGED!!
For the record if this was Ireland I also wouldn’t give a fook.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So why would you be outraged by a different country’s flag change? That makes no sense….
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Satters I’m laughing at those offended by it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know bro. You’re not the only one allowed to make jokes 😘
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Touché
What I also find interesting is the reporting on this referencing Nike. Nike will have been given direction on this by the FA, prepared several options and the relevant people from the FA will have signed off on one.
comment by Robbing Hoody - I taught Szoboszlai how to cushion half volleys (U6374)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you function?
Tricks of light have you outraged now. Lovely stuff
----------------------------------------------------------------------
People think a nike shirt design is rubbish
Robbing gets so outraged about this US sports company being criticised, he frantically googles 66 shirts to try to find that one photo which shows a bit of purple due to the lighting and camera angle
SatNav and it's fine to have the discussion you propose, in addition to me making - which I thought I was doing in passing - the simple point that an appeal to tradition was an insufficient argument.
What I would add to your post above:
I accept that some people find what they see as arbitrary change unsettling, and I don't want to denigrate those who find value and belonging in traditions and symbols. I do think we need to be aware of how often in the history of just about every country malign forces have sought to harness those natural human feelings not just to secure popular consent for terrible acts, but to distract attention away from material reality, economic injustice, etc. And in the context of England today, I think it's hard to deny that the political right has made a concerted effort to mobilise traditional symbolism and rile the population at perceived slights against it, in order to advance their political agenda. We have seen this in the way we suddenly got more and more flags in the background when politicians did TV interviews. We've seen it in the way blue passports and imperial measurements quite absurdly became significant talking points in a referendum with giant constitutional and economic implications. We see it in the annual sport of shaming any public figure who forgot to wear their Remembrance Poppy. Symbols have emotional importance, but it's possible to magnify their importance by making a song and dance about them, and by screeching about perceived insults against them.
As to your "undeniable backlash against this country’s history, flags, historical figures", I would frame that slightly differently. Firstly, I think it's accurate to say that throughout history (looking back to the Peterloo massacre and beyond) the symbols and status of the country, as largely defined by the ruling classes, have been contentious. So it's useful to remind ourselves that we're not talking about a world in which we had stable, uncontested traditions and identities until about ten years ago a bunch of people with piercings came along and started challenging everything. Secondly, I'd argue that the same right-wing discourse that currently harnesses symbols such as the flag, the monarch's portrait, the blue passport, etc. has made quite a concerted effort to caricature strands of thought and campaigns as a 'backlash' against our history and identity. Now, of course you can find examples of crass self-hatred. However, the point of this anti-woke rhetoric isn't to moderate progressive ideas, but to define self-critical and reforming impulses *in general* as sneering hatred of the country. For instance, there was a very loud campaign that aimed to take back control of the National Trust from a leadership which had decided to acknowledge the role of slavery in originally financing some of its properties. It turned out that this supposedly grassroots organisation was generously funded by an opaque think-tank, and in the event the (small-c conservative) membership of the trust rejected its alternative candidates. The National Trust wasn't proposing to tear down country houses or to stop celebrating our national heritage, but to acknowledge a more complex truth about our history. I think that's all a lot of us on the left side of politics want: a more honest, rounded view of what our country is and has been: a more self-critical view that better equips us to create a more just society today. I don't think it makes us stronger if we are unable to tolerate anything other than a purely celebratory self-image, and one which requires forgetting parts of history and making certain truths taboo.
So yes, there is (always) a tendency to challenge traditions and symbols. Sometimes that goes far. But there's also a politically motivated backlash against this tendency.
No look there's a bit of purple on the 66 shirt design if you look at it from a certain angle. Nike marketing are geniuses for coming out with this playful update, it's not just total pish
Well it’s a lovely little culture wars distraction for the politicians, and the flagsh*ggers are crying into their warm Carling, but seriously who gives a f*ck?
Don’t like it, don’t buy it, and if people are really that upset, just don’t watch The Euros.
Or are you addressing the rest of the room rather than specifically RDD?
---------------------------------------------------
Yes, it was the latter.
This is amazing stuff, when Liverpool moved to Nike a few years half the fanbase were up in arms about the design of new shirt because it deviated away from traditions. How typical of their fans to come out with a load of hypocrisy.
Sign in if you want to comment
Changed England flag on kit
Page 7 of 14
8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12
posted on 22/3/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
Imagine tthe reaction to Nike tinkering with the Stars and Stripes, Irish Tricolore, Palestinian flag.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
That may have changed in our current era, and I imagine a lot of Welsh / Scottish / Irish people have a different perspective on this, but...
One of the healthier strands in our national self-identity has been an ability to interact with a certain irony or playfulness with our Britishness/Englishness, to feel that it doesn't weigh us down too much. When I go to countries where the flag is everywhere and where everyone is expected to treat it with po-faced reverence (the USA is quite similar to Putin's Russia in that respect), I find that quite oppressive. It's something I've always valued about my country that it has the self-confidence to not take itself too seriously, to do things with a light touch. I suppose the differing sensibilities about this England kit reflect differing political-cultural sensibilities. If you generally like England, like its cultural innovativeness and capacity for reinvention, you're probably not going to be upset about referencing another colour associated with England football in a design feature that references the flag. If you feel your sense of national identity is besieged by the forces of cultural/societal change, then this may feel like a big deal.
As for RDD's specific examples:
- the USA (despite its cult of flag) regularly does use stylised versions that reference the flag while changing colours etc. See the 1994 USMNT shirt for instance.
- Ireland: with a tricolour design it's hard to change the colours without it being unrecognisable. That design option isn't really available. Therefore designers are more likely to take those colours and use them in different patterns.
- Gaza is currently experiencing what I would describe as a genocidal assault. You'd therefore expect that a Palestinian's cultural sensibilities about their identity would naturally be quite different from someone from England. I'd suggest that an English institution playing around with a national symbol has quite a different import than a Palestinian one doing the same.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you one of these people who have conversations with your dog, thinking that they can understand what you are saying? Or are you addressing the rest of the room rather than specifically RDD? As surely you know he can't read or comprehend what you are saying? It is OK, his vision is based on movement so can't really see what we are saying, so won't get upset by us mocking him.
posted on 22/3/24
comment by Willie Dyer (U1734)
posted 2 seconds ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
Imagine tthe reaction to Nike tinkering with the Stars and Stripes, Irish Tricolore, Palestinian flag.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
That may have changed in our current era, and I imagine a lot of Welsh / Scottish / Irish people have a different perspective on this, but...
One of the healthier strands in our national self-identity has been an ability to interact with a certain irony or playfulness with our Britishness/Englishness, to feel that it doesn't weigh us down too much. When I go to countries where the flag is everywhere and where everyone is expected to treat it with po-faced reverence (the USA is quite similar to Putin's Russia in that respect), I find that quite oppressive. It's something I've always valued about my country that it has the self-confidence to not take itself too seriously, to do things with a light touch. I suppose the differing sensibilities about this England kit reflect differing political-cultural sensibilities. If you generally like England, like its cultural innovativeness and capacity for reinvention, you're probably not going to be upset about referencing another colour associated with England football in a design feature that references the flag. If you feel your sense of national identity is besieged by the forces of cultural/societal change, then this may feel like a big deal.
As for RDD's specific examples:
- the USA (despite its cult of flag) regularly does use stylised versions that reference the flag while changing colours etc. See the 1994 USMNT shirt for instance.
- Ireland: with a tricolour design it's hard to change the colours without it being unrecognisable. That design option isn't really available. Therefore designers are more likely to take those colours and use them in different patterns.
- Gaza is currently experiencing what I would describe as a genocidal assault. You'd therefore expect that a Palestinian's cultural sensibilities about their identity would naturally be quite different from someone from England. I'd suggest that an English institution playing around with a national symbol has quite a different import than a Palestinian one doing the same.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you one of these people who have conversations with your dog, thinking that they can understand what you are saying? Or are you addressing the rest of the room rather than specifically RDD? As surely you know he can't read or comprehend what you are saying? It is OK, his vision is based on movement so can't really see what we are saying, so won't get upset by us mocking him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not bad Baz
posted on 22/3/24
comment by Old_Evertonian (U23158)
posted 27 seconds ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - I taught Szoboszlai how to cushion half volleys (U6374)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I did, I don't see any purple. Point it out to me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s right there on the cuff. Don’t you get embarrassed?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://content.easyliveauction.com/auctions/images_lots/1C72F36708918955CA355177AEABBDEB_sta02/1100170901.JPG
Don't you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nope
https://footballshirtcollective.com/products/1966-alf-ramsey-england-retro-umbro-football-track-top-jacket-s-world-cup-66?pr_prod_strat=e5_desc&pr_rec_id=11807ab99&pr_rec_pid=8102554599671&pr_ref_pid=7930530463991&pr_seq=uniform
Clapfree in the bin YET AGAIN
Love it
posted on 22/3/24
comment by Willie Dyer (U1734)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Willie Dyer (U1734)
posted 36 seconds ago
comment by Willie Dyer (U1734)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 10 minutes ago
Imagine tthe reaction to Nike tinkering with the Stars and Stripes, Irish Tricolore, Palestinian flag.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9782677/Hannity-condemns-U-S-Olympic-Committees-proposal-redesign-flag-logo.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Team USA are literally proposing to change the stars and stripes. Thoughts?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How has that gone down?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty much the exact same monngos as yourself in America with the same reaction as you to a slight design change to make it look better on their kit. The colours on the flag, on that England kit, make it look better from a design point of view, on that particular strip. Same with using fewer but larger stars on the US flag, from a design point of view. But your brain is made of seaweed so you don't understand these types of things.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How have I reacted Bro?
posted on 22/3/24
comment by Robbing Hoody - I taught Szoboszlai how to cushion half volleys (U6374)
Don't you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nope
https://footballshirtcollective.com/products/1966-alf-ramsey-england-retro-umbro-football-track-top-jacket-s-world-cup-66?pr_prod_strat=e5_desc&pr_rec_id=11807ab99&pr_rec_pid=8102554599671&pr_ref_pid=7930530463991&pr_seq=uniform
Clapfree in the bin YET AGAIN
Love it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets just zoom in so you can see the trick of the light
https://footballshirtcollective.com/cdn/shop/files/1966-alf-ramsey-england-retro-umbro-football-track-top-jacket-xxl-bnwt-world-cup-39813490311415_5000x.jpg?v=1684934348
Keep digging this hole
posted on 22/3/24
comment by Striketeam7 - There used to be a football club over there (U18109)
posted 27 minutes ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - I taught Szoboszlai how to cushion half volleys (U6374)
posted 42 seconds ago
We should just have a picture of gammon on the collar and have done with it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It should be Basil Fawlty man handling Manuel with a speech bubble saying “now that’s how a German would do it”
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t mention the war. I mentioned it once but I think I got away with it. Absolute classic
posted on 22/3/24
comment by Old_Evertonian (U23158)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Robbing Hoody - I taught Szoboszlai how to cushion half volleys (U6374)
Don't you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nope
https://footballshirtcollective.com/products/1966-alf-ramsey-england-retro-umbro-football-track-top-jacket-s-world-cup-66?pr_prod_strat=e5_desc&pr_rec_id=11807ab99&pr_rec_pid=8102554599671&pr_ref_pid=7930530463991&pr_seq=uniform
Clapfree in the bin YET AGAIN
Love it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets just zoom in so you can see the trick of the light
https://footballshirtcollective.com/cdn/shop/files/1966-alf-ramsey-england-retro-umbro-football-track-top-jacket-xxl-bnwt-world-cup-39813490311415_5000x.jpg?v=tel:1684934348
Keep digging this hole
---------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you function?
Tricks of light have you outraged now. Lovely stuff
posted on 22/3/24
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Willie Dyer (U1734)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Willie Dyer (U1734)
posted 36 seconds ago
comment by Willie Dyer (U1734)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 10 minutes ago
Imagine tthe reaction to Nike tinkering with the Stars and Stripes, Irish Tricolore, Palestinian flag.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9782677/Hannity-condemns-U-S-Olympic-Committees-proposal-redesign-flag-logo.html
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Team USA are literally proposing to change the stars and stripes. Thoughts?
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How has that gone down?
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Pretty much the exact same monngos as yourself in America with the same reaction as you to a slight design change to make it look better on their kit. The colours on the flag, on that England kit, make it look better from a design point of view, on that particular strip. Same with using fewer but larger stars on the US flag, from a design point of view. But your brain is made of seaweed so you don't understand these types of things.
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How have I reacted Bro?
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Like a monggo, as I said.
posted on 22/3/24
IM OUTRAGED BY THIS! I DEMAND TO BE ACKNOWLEDGED!!
For the record if this was Ireland I also wouldn’t give a fook.
posted on 22/3/24
Can someone give me and RDD and Barry summary? Preferably Barry.
posted on 22/3/24
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 59 seconds ago
IM OUTRAGED BY THIS! I DEMAND TO BE ACKNOWLEDGED!!
For the record if this was Ireland I also wouldn’t give a fook.
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So why would you be outraged by a different country’s flag change? That makes no sense….
posted on 22/3/24
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 59 seconds ago
IM OUTRAGED BY THIS! I DEMAND TO BE ACKNOWLEDGED!!
For the record if this was Ireland I also wouldn’t give a fook.
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So why would you be outraged by a different country’s flag change? That makes no sense….
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Satters I’m laughing at those offended by it
posted on 22/3/24
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 13 minutes ago
Imagine tthe reaction to Nike tinkering with the Stars and Stripes, Irish Tricolore, Palestinian flag.
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That may have changed in our current era, and I imagine a lot of Welsh / Scottish / Irish people have a different perspective on this, but...
One of the healthier strands in our national self-identity has been an ability to interact with a certain irony or playfulness with our Britishness/Englishness, to feel that it doesn't weigh us down too much. When I go to countries where the flag is everywhere and where everyone is expected to treat it with po-faced reverence (the USA is quite similar to Putin's Russia in that respect), I find that quite oppressive. It's something I've always valued about my country that it has the self-confidence to not take itself too seriously, to do things with a light touch. I suppose the differing sensibilities about this England kit reflect differing political-cultural sensibilities. If you generally like England, like its cultural innovativeness and capacity for reinvention, you're probably not going to be upset about referencing another colour associated with England football in a design feature that references the flag. If you feel your sense of national identity is besieged by the forces of cultural/societal change, then this may feel like a big deal.
As for RDD's specific examples:
- the USA (despite its cult of flag) regularly does use stylised versions that reference the flag while changing colours etc. See the 1994 USMNT shirt for instance.
- Ireland: with a tricolour design it's hard to change the colours without it being unrecognisable. That design option isn't really available. Therefore designers are more likely to take those colours and use them in different patterns.
- Gaza is currently experiencing what I would describe as a genocidal assault. You'd therefore expect that a Palestinian's cultural sensibilities about their identity would naturally be quite different from someone from England. I'd suggest that an English institution playing around with a national symbol has quite a different import than a Palestinian one doing the same.
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Surely a Pink, Yellow and Red Tricolour on an Irish football shirt would be just as recognisable as a pink St George's is on an England shirt?
And I think the Palestinians have much more tk be concerned with than their football shirt, but you can bet your bottom dollar, there would be uproar of it were altered
posted on 22/3/24
Will you all shut up about the flag now. Kate loves it so case closed!
https://x.com/DBW77/status/1771164081757569472?s=20
posted on 22/3/24
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 59 seconds ago
IM OUTRAGED BY THIS! I DEMAND TO BE ACKNOWLEDGED!!
For the record if this was Ireland I also wouldn’t give a fook.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So why would you be outraged by a different country’s flag change? That makes no sense….
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Satters I’m laughing at those offended by it
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I know bro. You’re not the only one allowed to make jokes 😘
posted on 22/3/24
Surely a Pink, Yellow and Red Tricolour on an Irish football shirt would be just as recognisable as a pink St George's is on an England shirt?
Wouldn’t bother me (the Irish part)
posted on 22/3/24
comment by Willie Dyer (U1734)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Willie Dyer (U1734)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 6 minutes ago
comment by Willie Dyer (U1734)
posted 36 seconds ago
comment by Willie Dyer (U1734)
posted 7 minutes ago
comment by The Mainoo Man (U23147)
posted 10 minutes ago
Imagine tthe reaction to Nike tinkering with the Stars and Stripes, Irish Tricolore, Palestinian flag.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9782677/Hannity-condemns-U-S-Olympic-Committees-proposal-redesign-flag-logo.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Team USA are literally proposing to change the stars and stripes. Thoughts?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How has that gone down?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty much the exact same monngos as yourself in America with the same reaction as you to a slight design change to make it look better on their kit. The colours on the flag, on that England kit, make it look better from a design point of view, on that particular strip. Same with using fewer but larger stars on the US flag, from a design point of view. But your brain is made of seaweed so you don't understand these types of things.
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How have I reacted Bro?
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Like a monggo, as I said.
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What lovely language.
posted on 22/3/24
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 55 seconds ago
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 59 seconds ago
IM OUTRAGED BY THIS! I DEMAND TO BE ACKNOWLEDGED!!
For the record if this was Ireland I also wouldn’t give a fook.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So why would you be outraged by a different country’s flag change? That makes no sense….
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Satters I’m laughing at those offended by it
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I know bro. You’re not the only one allowed to make jokes 😘
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Touché
posted on 22/3/24
What I also find interesting is the reporting on this referencing Nike. Nike will have been given direction on this by the FA, prepared several options and the relevant people from the FA will have signed off on one.
posted on 22/3/24
comment by Robbing Hoody - I taught Szoboszlai how to cushion half volleys (U6374)
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How do you function?
Tricks of light have you outraged now. Lovely stuff
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People think a nike shirt design is rubbish
Robbing gets so outraged about this US sports company being criticised, he frantically googles 66 shirts to try to find that one photo which shows a bit of purple due to the lighting and camera angle
posted on 22/3/24
SatNav and it's fine to have the discussion you propose, in addition to me making - which I thought I was doing in passing - the simple point that an appeal to tradition was an insufficient argument.
What I would add to your post above:
I accept that some people find what they see as arbitrary change unsettling, and I don't want to denigrate those who find value and belonging in traditions and symbols. I do think we need to be aware of how often in the history of just about every country malign forces have sought to harness those natural human feelings not just to secure popular consent for terrible acts, but to distract attention away from material reality, economic injustice, etc. And in the context of England today, I think it's hard to deny that the political right has made a concerted effort to mobilise traditional symbolism and rile the population at perceived slights against it, in order to advance their political agenda. We have seen this in the way we suddenly got more and more flags in the background when politicians did TV interviews. We've seen it in the way blue passports and imperial measurements quite absurdly became significant talking points in a referendum with giant constitutional and economic implications. We see it in the annual sport of shaming any public figure who forgot to wear their Remembrance Poppy. Symbols have emotional importance, but it's possible to magnify their importance by making a song and dance about them, and by screeching about perceived insults against them.
As to your "undeniable backlash against this country’s history, flags, historical figures", I would frame that slightly differently. Firstly, I think it's accurate to say that throughout history (looking back to the Peterloo massacre and beyond) the symbols and status of the country, as largely defined by the ruling classes, have been contentious. So it's useful to remind ourselves that we're not talking about a world in which we had stable, uncontested traditions and identities until about ten years ago a bunch of people with piercings came along and started challenging everything. Secondly, I'd argue that the same right-wing discourse that currently harnesses symbols such as the flag, the monarch's portrait, the blue passport, etc. has made quite a concerted effort to caricature strands of thought and campaigns as a 'backlash' against our history and identity. Now, of course you can find examples of crass self-hatred. However, the point of this anti-woke rhetoric isn't to moderate progressive ideas, but to define self-critical and reforming impulses *in general* as sneering hatred of the country. For instance, there was a very loud campaign that aimed to take back control of the National Trust from a leadership which had decided to acknowledge the role of slavery in originally financing some of its properties. It turned out that this supposedly grassroots organisation was generously funded by an opaque think-tank, and in the event the (small-c conservative) membership of the trust rejected its alternative candidates. The National Trust wasn't proposing to tear down country houses or to stop celebrating our national heritage, but to acknowledge a more complex truth about our history. I think that's all a lot of us on the left side of politics want: a more honest, rounded view of what our country is and has been: a more self-critical view that better equips us to create a more just society today. I don't think it makes us stronger if we are unable to tolerate anything other than a purely celebratory self-image, and one which requires forgetting parts of history and making certain truths taboo.
So yes, there is (always) a tendency to challenge traditions and symbols. Sometimes that goes far. But there's also a politically motivated backlash against this tendency.
posted on 22/3/24
No look there's a bit of purple on the 66 shirt design if you look at it from a certain angle. Nike marketing are geniuses for coming out with this playful update, it's not just total pish
posted on 22/3/24
Well it’s a lovely little culture wars distraction for the politicians, and the flagsh*ggers are crying into their warm Carling, but seriously who gives a f*ck?
Don’t like it, don’t buy it, and if people are really that upset, just don’t watch The Euros.
posted on 22/3/24
Or are you addressing the rest of the room rather than specifically RDD?
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Yes, it was the latter.
posted on 22/3/24
This is amazing stuff, when Liverpool moved to Nike a few years half the fanbase were up in arms about the design of new shirt because it deviated away from traditions. How typical of their fans to come out with a load of hypocrisy.
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