We weren't good enough last year. We have lost a player to the prem and our player of the year Gradel. In the summer we replaced these type players with loan's and free transfers. How anyone can expect us to be challenging for autos is beyond me.

Bates needs to step up now and extend Howson and White's contract so we can continue to build and not weaken once again.

Its the same old question, who could we bring in to replace SG that would be on low wages and would not be bothered that he wouldnt have any money to spend. The list would be very short in my opinion and there isnt many out there who would be better than SG.

The wages are in the top six in the champ

Where do people get that they aren't

Yes we should be spending more but it's not peanuts has some suggest

I think Lucas Radebe would do a good job he would sort the defence out thats for sure but the chances of that ever happening, well I would not mind seeing the odds on that but he is committed to other work back home.

Lucas is unproven, it's all about working your budget and getting the best out of what you have, Gradel was sold so there is money there, the question is, will they buy someone or waste it on a loan/s?

Trying to buy Kirk broadfoot that's your answer isn't it?

Grayson out!

do you think any manager is going to get a couple oe acheivment free seasons moulding a young squad and not get sacked? Its a flawed argument because what you suggest would take time, and fans demand sucess.

Experience is good as long as the player int too old

You've got to have loyalty from players and backing from the owner to allow youth to develop into a great team. Arsenal have probably wasted the last 6 years trying to develop young players, becaus as soon as they start to reach their potential they are sold. If the likes of Clichy, Flamini, Hleb, Nasri, Adebayor and Fabregas etc, had stayed they would still be fighting for the title.

LIW

where do you get that the wages are in the top 6 in championship?? Where is your info? You do not have an itemised account of what each player is on do you. The total wage bill is irrelavent. Its our wage structure that is important. Clearly bates will not pay the going rate for good players.

LIW, this is a question rather than disagreeing with you as I don't have conclusive proof of my figures so where did you find that we are in the top six wage bills in the Championship? I thought that our wage bill was around £12m whilst the average in the Championship was £15m. The £15m average isn't disputable as that was put together by Delliote for the football league. What I'm not 100% on is our wage bill as I've only heard that from sites such as this one

Dlk

15m is disputable when the average wage in the champ is 4k aweek

So if 15m is miles above that

Show me a link

By TalkSport today

Leeds boss Simon Grayson could welcome back Robert Snodgrass for the weekend's trip to Crystal Palace and has not ruled out making a couple of new signings in time for them to play too.

Snodgrass is close to a return after having his appendix removed last month, but the Leeds manager feels he needs a couple of players to help the club push for promotion.

Grayson believes his side are capable of a promotion push with some added firepower and said: "There is a lot of work still to be done, but we have made contact with clubs and representatives so hopefully something can be down very quickly.

"We know we need players because it is a long season and we need to supplement what we've already got."

Grayson has been linked with moves for former Leeds favourite Alan Smith and Barnet winger Mark Marshall.

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Not too sure about the last paragraph myself, but the rest is hopeful!!

LIW I'm just on my phone at the moment and its a bit too useless and slow for me to search for the link but it stated total wages last year to be £378,000,000 in the Championship. I simply divided by the 24 teams.

Okay, summer 2010 when we were first in the Champ, we signed:

Paytner: just finished top scorer in League One, will have had a lot of clubs interested, and received a good wage/signing on fee for us to get him.

Schmeichel: Was Notts County's highest paid player, and interested a lot of clubs, including Prem teams, so will have been paid a very high wage and signing on fee.

Sam: wasn't offered a new contract by Charlton because they couldn't afford his wages - which had been set in their final Premier League season.

Connolly: Had Sheffield interested, won't have been cheap

Bessone: turned down a deal from Swansea to sign for us.

Bruce: paid for him and on decent wages.

McCormack: the same

Collins: the same

Then throughout the season:

McCartney: On high wages.

AOB: the same

Lichaj: on decent wages at Villa

then this summer:

Keogh: on decent wages at wolves

Pugh: on decent wages at Stoke

Varnyen: played for some decent clubs and an international so wages won't be cheap

Nunez: will have had some clubs interested

Lonergran: almost signed for Everton, so will be on good wages, also was wanted off the wage bill at Preston.

Forsell: be on good wages

Brown: be on good wages


Please, someone explain how Grayson in spending such little money. I think that us signing players like Bessone, Connolly, Schmeichel etc. when they were offered contracts by other clubs, shows we must offer higher wages than some of our rivals.

In terms of the summer activity the clubs that showed more ambition than us in my opinion were:

Birmingham, West Ham, Leicester, Ipswich, Brighton, Nottingham Forest and Southampton.

Although top teams like Reading and Cardiff have gone backwards losing some star players they haven't replaced them with dross like we have.

The overachievers in this league in my opinion are Boro who lost players rather than add to their squad, yet they've had an exceptional season. Although they still had a solid base from the gamble that took place last year.

Weren't we promised "imminent" signings this time last year only for them to not materialise ?!??!?!?? Apparently the right players didn't become available.

I'll believe signings when i see them.....

Bates, how can you say Grayson has done a good job when you think he's lacked ambition and brought in dross?

Best fans

Thanks for clearing that up mate. Those numbers look about right

Maybe i'm being harsh on the likes of Brown and Forsell calling them dross, but i believe better players have gone elsewhere who Grayson would have rather brought in. Experienced midfielders i'd have preferred the likes of Bowyer, Andrews or Ferguson over Brown who hadn't played for a good few months.
Forsell just looked like a low risk free signing because he realised Paynter had no future and Somma was out for months anyway. Lets not forget he came in after the deadline so we couldn't have got anyone else in.

Could you not say every manager would rather have signed better players?

I just think the lack of ambition isn't down to Grayson and comes from Bates lack of funds. Also Bates doesn't even keep our 1st team players that Grayson wants to keep. If Bates doesn't change his strategy the club will go backwards in terms of players, league position and attendance.

Who'll be gone by the end of this season? possibly the likes of Howson, White and Snodgrass. Will we bring in adequate replacements? Probably not once again.

Could you not say the same about other chairmen?

Would you agree that Grayson signs players worse than the ones we've already got and plays them ahead of better players?

How is that down to Bates?

Could you not say the same about other chairmen?
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not those with ambition for the club they represent...

People get money and ambition confused.

They are two different things.

You can still be ambitious on a tight budget.

Obviously Bates has no ambition because he's employing Grayson.

Grayson only has one ambition and that's to keep himself in a job.