Comment deleted by Site Moderator

Depends what happens when Fergie retires. That will be absolutely pivotal.

comment by Fred Bassett and Anfield Cat vs The World - Quiz Title Holder: Round 15 (U3979)


Depends what happens when Fergie retires. That will be absolutely pivotal.
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Yeh but what I want to know Fred, is how many more PL titles do you think United need to overtake Liverpool in terms of overall success?

I have you ahead by way of EC/CLs - but if we won say another 3 PL titles without you winning any, do you think that would put us out in front?

It's hard to say. To be honest i think Utd have past us unfortunately - not on the European throphy stage. But since Fergie took over you have increased your stadium capacity, revenues, your fan based has increased ten fold (although most are just glory hunting Wums who probably couldn't even name 15 of your players) Your a bigger brand name than us now also.

I also think success should be judged on leagues won, at the end of the day it's every clubs bread and butter.

If I am honest, I think United have already taken over Liverpool. Ok in terms of European success, there is a bit of difference however, the dominance shown over the last twenty years, has concluded for me, along with the success and trophies won, with the excellent fanbase and income and massive stadium that United have in fact, albeit very recently taken over Liverpool. However we'll be back.

we're already ahead of them - manchester united 60 liverpool 59.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_records_in_England

Yeh but what I want to know Fred, is how many more PL titles do you think United need to overtake Liverpool in terms of overall success?

I have you ahead by way of EC/CLs - but if we won say another 3 PL titles without you winning any, do you think that would put us out in front?
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Depends on what you value higher out of European competition and Premier League. United are a better club than us these days in terms of worldwide support, stadium, brand name, revenue and we are way behind.

We can take solace in the fact that both of us are WAY in front of anybody else in England.

Some Liverpool fans online were saying 18+5 > 19+3

So with one more PL title we are level, with 2 we overtake them by that criteria

comment by scouseking5 (U8222)

I do agree that we have taken over you in terms of the size of the club. However, I still have you just ahead of us at the moment in terms of success. I don't know why, other than it being a feeling taking into account our overall trophy hauls. That said, I think we are right up with you and just a few more PL titles would tip it in our favour in my opinion.

Liverpool:
18 league
5 EC/CL
7 FAC
8 LC
3 other European

Total: 41

United:
19 league
3 EC/CL
11 FAC
4 LC
1 other European

Total: 38

(I've left out United's two World Club things - I don't consider them very important but others will disagree)

I'll go for three more titles - same amount of total trophies but four more titles cancelling out two more EC's for Liverpool. United edge FA Cups over Liverpool's less prestigious League Cup tally.

PS I applaud the OP's efforts to couch this in such reasonable terms but suspect the thread is going to descend into the usual bloodbath pretty quickly...

Oh good ole's here



That takes into consideration the amount of minor trophies like the charity shield.

Major trophies (League Cup, FA Cup, Europa League, Champions League, League Titles) put us 41-40 ahead

comment by Fred Bassett and Anfield Cat vs The World - Quiz Title Holder: Round 15 (U3979)

Depends on what you value higher out of European competition and Premier League. United are a better club than us these days in terms of worldwide support, stadium, brand name, revenue and we are way behind.
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Working out where the real value is in terms of the EC/CL is hard. The format has changed - then you have the fact that only league winners would enter in the past. I just base my opinion that you are slightly ahead on a gut feeling taking into account the overall trophies.

I reckon 1 PL title would see is about level and 1 more would take us ahead.

comment by There'sOnlyOneReds

Putting aside fanbase, revenue etc. and taking into account only trophies - who do you think is ahead?

ah right i see, so now you can just pick and choose what trophies you count so it suits yourslef? ok then, if we're not counting world club championships and community shields then there's no way liverpool are counting the old defunct european cup. beating the likes of shamrock rovers and hertha berlin and only playing three teams to reach the final one year is hardly an achievement is it?

I think LFC just nick it on the trophies that matter front and I applaud the OP and others for recognising this.

However, it is undoubtedly true that und are now the biggest club in England on and off the pitch. we have a lot of catching up to do, but for the first time in years, we are once again moving in the right direction on and off the pitch.

comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by There'sOnlyOneReds

Putting aside fanbase, revenue etc. and taking into account only trophies - who do you think is ahead?
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It is a little bit subjective, due to the fact that we place our opinions on the importance of trophies. if we take the traditional 'major' trophy law on it, then I believe Liverpool are ahead.

Oh here we go, the bitter streak is out.

It's what is generally considered to be major trophies, the World Club Championship and the Charity Shield aren't considered major trophies, by anybody.

As for disregarding the Champions League, that's laughable. I guess Real Madrid have only won it three times then?

comment by ole_1999 (U13262)
posted 1 minute ago
ah right i see, so now you can just pick and choose what trophies you count so it suits yourslef? ok then, if we're not counting world club championships and community shields then there's no way liverpool are counting the old defunct european cup. beating the likes of shamrock rovers and hertha berlin and only playing three teams to reach the final one year is hardly an achievement is it?
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Give it a rest for one day. jeez. What a tool.

Can you not have a debate without it descending into childish nonsense?

ole_1999 (U13262)
posted 2 minutes ago
ah right i see, so now you can just pick and choose what trophies you count so it suits yourslef? ok then, if we're not counting world club championships and community shields then there's no way liverpool are counting the old defunct european cup. beating the likes of shamrock rovers and hertha berlin and only playing three teams to reach the final one year is hardly an achievement is it?

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Blert Alert!

Ferguson recognises the CS as a friendly, why can't you?

It has very little significance

comment by ole_1999 (U13262)

posted 24 seconds ago

ah right i see, so now you can just pick and choose what trophies you count so it suits yourslef? ok then, if we're not counting world club championships and community shields then there's no way liverpool are counting the old defunct european cup. beating the likes of shamrock rovers and hertha berlin and only playing three teams to reach the final one year is hardly an achievement is it?
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First of all it is a United fan that discounted the world club cup. And I actually agree with him.

Secondly, did Liverpool ever face Hertha on their way to EC glory? I dont think so.

no way liverpool are counting the old defunct european cup.
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showing your maturity and intelligence in that comment ole

you could only enter being champions of your country, no top 4 crap, no seeding(yes designed so the better teams in a mini league can have an off day and still advance!) drawn against anyone, and always had to play your best team, no second chances like now days.

you can't compare the modern day champions league and the old defunct european cup. like i say, in one of liverpool's 'victorious' years they only played three teams to reach the final, one of whom were part timers. the world club championship is a far more prestigious honour. for one thing, if it's so simple to win how come liverpool have never done it, despite having been in it more times than any other english club? you can't just dismiss the team's you face in that because they aren't on fifa.

@ ole_1999

Don't be ridiculous. Yes, the CL is harder to win than the old European Cup but are you seriously trying to equate it with the Charity Shield or some kick about in the Far East?

Ole, you have a lot to learn. I see you embarrassing yourself on here, to the point where you have to leave, if you keep this tirade up. You remind me of a supposed Liverpool fan on BBC606. MarktheMad is the name he went by. So naive, so young, so stupid. grow up.

kick about in the far east? oh please. like i say, how does anyone in this country know how good the teams you face in the world club championship are? we're the only english club to have ever won the competition and i for one am proud of that.