As soon as RVP came off in that Norwich game the movement and general play in attacking areas went up a level.

....................

As much as some of our fans may hate this, that was more to do with Rooney coming on and Giggs going off, than anything else.

Possibly, AU. But there's more chance of Alexander Buttner playing for Barca than Welbeck usurping RVP in our starting lineup.
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More to do with the future than anything else given RVP's age.

How much we betting Giggs starts next Monday ???

I'm feeling pretty confident he will.

Giggs actually does astonishingly well against Chelsea, it's strange.

comment by Stretford_Ender85 (U10955) posted 1 minute ago
How much we betting Giggs starts next Monday ???

I'm feeling pretty confident he will.
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Wouldn't surprise one bit

Stretford, in my opinion, there's more too it than just fixing the midfield. The team ethic isn't good enough, in both defence and attack.

It's all well and good saying the midfield can't compete with them but we've seen quite a lot that our attack is also stifled when playing pressing teams. It runs deeper and people overlook just how good those teams are collectively as well as individually compared to us.

If he starts ahead of Kagawa next Monday, then I really will give up.

Time to let go Ryan. You're nearly 40. You're a pale shadow of your former self and you're just halting the progression of several young players now.

Moyes has become Fergie overnight though.

Is Kagawa in the right condition to start?

Stretford

Anyone know what's happening with Nani's injury? It's a shame he's injured now. He's usually very good against Chelsea. Always seems to turn up against them.

Thought Nani looked decent in pre-season, claerly an excellent talent but things never seem to fall in place for him.

I know that this conversation has moved off in another direction but why is Rooney immune from criticism. I do not think he is a world class striker and I am entitled to my opinion.

For me, world class means if I were to make a team of 11 of the best in the world, the world class players would stroll into that team.

What is so wrong with saying that? Andy Cole and Dwight Yorke scored goals for fun and were quality players. I wouldn't put them in the same bracket as someone like Batistuta.

The over the top defence of Rooney when people make valid points about deficiencies of his game are ridiculous.

He played as a number 9 once for us and scored a sht load of goals but his best position is a SS. How then can he be a world class striker?

My word

"Stretford, in my opinion, there's more too it than just fixing the midfield. The team ethic isn't good enough, in both defence and attack."

You are right Darren and the formation that Ferguson has used with your wide players last season put a lot more strain on the midfield. The front four that you have is fantastic at scoring goals, it is not so great without the ball. It's one of the most difficult things to get right though, the balance between the two. What happens in some of your games is that the defence drops deep, but the attacking four (depending who they are) don't get back quickly enough to retain shape. It can leave you a bit stretched and the midfield two overran. It doesn't matter who you play there, it will always happen if they don't have support.

On the flip side though, it helps with your counter attacking, which has always been one of your main strengths.

comment by AlwaysUnited - It's time for Cleverson! (U4063) posted 4 minutes ago
Is Kagawa in the right condition to start?
--------------------
I seriously hope that has been the case mate. I really do

If he's been fit to play and watching Giggs for the bench, he must be wondering wtf he is doing at United

MUDD

For a player you think is so garbage, you sure obssess an awful lot about him

You're all over every single thread about him with comment after comment

If you think he's that bad and not worth the hassle, why spend hours a day mentioning it?

Sure he's sha55ed your Mrs or something

MUDd

You really need to let go with Wazza banging your granny.

Melton, I agree. Also when it comes to counter attacking I think we've struggled at times as when we are pressed in and the attackers come deep they also lose it when pressed. We can't seem to pass our way out of trouble against teams that are good at pressing. And why I always fancied our chances better against Madrid than a Barca, Dortmund or Bayern.

The problem is that people are SO critical of the midfield that any problems we have always come back to it, when often it is not always the case.

Is it the midfield's fault if the chemistry of the attackers isn't the best? Or that they are struggling to retain the ball when pressed? Or that Fergie gets his tactics wrong? Or that we sit so deep because Vidic, Rio and Carrick are slow?

And the funny thing is that it's NEVER anything to so with Carrick. It is always the fault of the other midfielder and not the combination of all these factors that is why we are quite a way off of these top teams.

When Anderson and Cleverley were firing and the back line pushed up higher (Jones and Evans) at the beginning of 11/12, United could pass their way around pressing sides, press the ball themselves and dominate. Their were problems defensively but United looked very accomplished as a team IMO.

comment by Vidicschin (U3584) posted 17 seconds ago
MUDd

You really need to let go with Wazza banging your granny.
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Schmeichs seems pretty adamant that Wazza has told him that he doesn't want to leave and never did

These are the first actual quotes from a reputable source I have heared regarding Roo yet people still prefer to believe the Sun or the Mirror

I wonder where this official transfer request he was supposed to be putting in 2 weeks ago to force a move to Chelsea is?

I was so sure that was true as the paper got the info from a 'source closed to Rooney'

Moyes gave the clue not long back when he said to the press he was enjoying talking about Rooney because they were getting it so so wrong.

I struggle to see why people still don;t want to believe it and want to see him sold to Chelsea. Makes no sense to United whatsoever

comment by UnitedRedMacca-The Ralph Milne of The JA606 Manchester United Pun Team (U2024)
posted 2 hours, 5 minutes ago
Our record signing, Dimitar berbatov, came to United as a very technically gifted player, spent three seasons basically jogging through the seasons, showing occassional glimpses of what he could do. He never put a shift in for the team, wasn't prepared to fight for his place, and eventually plummeted down the pecking order to 4th or fifth choice with Both Welbeck and Chich being preffered to him.

Rather than fight to get back as first choice, he asked to leave and we sold him on at a 25 million pound loss

Berbatov get hailed

Rooney gets castigated before anyone really knows the actual truth

Pete seems pretty categoric in Rooney saying he does not want to leave
====================

A truly nice story Macca and a somewhat inaccurate picture of events.

1) First of all Berbatov was castigated from the first season he joined Utd and people called him Berbaflop. The minority, I seem to remember you then, like me defended him

2) Berbatov was never going to be a player to chase things down, no chance. He played football in a particular way and could delight or infuriate you at the same time. kind of like Nani. Fergie did not get the best out of him and used him the wrong way as well. It wasn't just his fault.

3) Berbatov went down the pecking order not because he wasn't bothered, it was because he didn't suit the way Fergie wanted to play. To be fair I would have told Fergie to feck off after he picked Michael Owen over him in the CL

4) Berba was our leading goalscorer and stepped in to help the team whilst Fergie sent Rooney to America after his whoring problems and an abysmal world cup. He played as the main man and fired us to a title and was dropped for no reason to accommodate the golden boy upon his return

5) You say Berbatov asked to leave, do you have any evidence to support this or is it media bollox? When he left, he said he was unfairly treated by the manager. There was enough blame to go round in that case

6) When he was benched, he never threw a strop or moaned and there was no leaking of stories to the press about him being unhappy. He kept quiet and held his tongue

7) He left and is still slated for being an abysmal buy by Fergie whilst no one holds the great man responsible for not getting the best out of him. Now our system would accommodate him as our game suits RvP who is very similar to him.

8) During his time with us, he never questioned the ambition of his club or the quality of his team mates or future team mates and did what was told with minimal fuss. He also turned down City to join us.

We can all argue whether he was treated well or not but to suggest he was hailed is not true.

Throughout his time at Utd though, we never dealt with the crap Rooney is making us deal with though. Fine, he didn't contribute as much to Utd as Rooney but that does not give him carte blanche to feck around with the club.

He can put all this nonsense to bed but coward that he is, he won't. To be fair, he does not need to because people will continue to make excuses for him, no matter what he does.

comment by AlwaysUnited - It's time for Cleverson! (U4063) posted 14 minutes ago
Thought Nani looked decent in pre-season, claerly an excellent talent but things never seem to fall in place for him.

--------------
The worrying hing about Nani (and Young too) is that neither seem to be able to go more than a few weeks without picking up another niggle

I'm convinced it's why nani's form has been so sporadic. He just cannot stay fit for any length of time

Spot on, to be honest. It is partly why I said what I did earlier about RVP not being my type of player, although he tracks back, he is absolutely awful at it - watch his positioning when you don't have the ball and the other team are attacking. On the flip side though, he is the best finisher in world football. When you add, potentially, Wellbeck, Kagawa and Nani behind it, then you have four players who are not particulary great at either tracking back or pressing the opposition. It's no wonder the defence drop deep, it isn't just lack of pace (which is definitely an element), it is the space that other teams can have between your lines that forces them back.

I agree about Carrick as well. He is a fantastic player, but if you play a holding two in centre midfield (which is what most teams nowadays play with a 4231 formation), then there has to be mobility in both of them, otherwise you will always be vulnerable without the ball.

It depends where Moyes wants to go with you guys - buying one midfielder won't significantly change your style of play though, it goes deeper than that. Until then, I think you have to get used to maybe sometimes not playing the most attractive football, but still scoring the most goals and winning matches, which is ultimately what matters!

A truly nice story Macca and a somewhat inaccurate picture of events.
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More accurate than your parade bollox

"Schmeichs seems pretty adamant that Wazza has told him that he doesn't want to leave and never did"

I heard what Schmeichel said this morning, sounded very similar to what we have been saying on here all along macca

comment by UnitedRedMacca-The Ralph Milne of The JA606 Manchester United Pun Team (U2024)
posted 9 minutes ago
MUDD

For a player you think is so garbage, you sure obssess an awful lot about him

You're all over every single thread about him with comment after comment

If you think he's that bad and not worth the hassle, why spend hours a day mentioning it?

Sure he's sha55ed your Mrs or something
========================

If you can find one post where I have suggested Rooney is garbage, please post it. There is no need to go all tabloid press bollox.

I have never questioned his ability, I question his commitment and it amazes me that you do not.

The fact someone plays for Utd does not make them automatically world class.

Until then, I think you have to get used to maybe sometimes not playing the most attractive football, but still scoring the most goals and winning matches, which is ultimately what matters!
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Kinda sums United up since 06/07 which was possibly the last time they were really good to watch over the course of a season.