grandspurs

How many players do you know who can jump that high to head or volley the ball ?

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And that is exactly the point. Lloris has used his hands to deny a striker the chance to score by not allowing the ball to fall to a height that the striker can shoot - in an area he is not allowed to use his hands.

That is the main reason i believe it was a red. If it was at a height where both players could head it or kick it, Lloris would have done. The fact he couldnt, and he was concerned that the opposition would score, he illegally punched the ball outside the box.

The only debating point is whether he knew he was outside or not and keepers generally have an inbuilt sense of where there line is as if there was a brick wall there.


HRH,

I never called you biased, i said that if the papers suggest a negative thing about our club or players we call them biased.

chicken

As HRH has already pointed out there was a lot of cover, their man was not even in possesion of the ball so how can Lloris have denied him a goal scoring opportunity?

Remember it has to be a "CLEAR" goal scoring opportunity not a "maybe" he could have scored.

You know me I am the same as HRH I follow the laws of the game whether we are in the wrong or right and IMO that definitely was not a red card even without the covering defenders.

You see it often when a striker goes round the keeper and gets fouled if his movement around the keeper takes him on a route away from goal the keeper will often end up with a yellow not a red yet his chances of scoring would be a lot higher than the guy for Norwich last weekend. Its still a penalty but the ref does not give red because the player was not on a direct route to goal

BTW changing the subject can you believe all this crap about the y word ffs ? Surely people have better things to do with their time than worry about a chant at a football match.

grand,

I think i'm right in saying this (happy to be proven wrong) but for a keeper it doesn't have to be a "CLEAR" goal scoring opportunity. This is not the "last man" rule i'm referring to here.

From my understanding, if a goalkeeper deliberately handballs the ball outside his box then it is a red card.

As i said in my post above, the only debate we should be having is whether he knew he was outside the box or not. This is a question only Lloris knows, howver, as i said before, goalkeepers generally have a natural sense of where their lines are, almost as if they are staring at a brick wall.

As for the "Y" word, its just so pathetic its untrue. And where will this ever stop? This is not a tít-for-tat argument at West Ham for the sake of it but just a good example, but if the word "Yíd" is politically incorrect because it is racist then isn't West Ham's nickname "Irons" (cockney slang for "Póóf" ) a homophobic chant?

Of course it bloody isn't and the people who chant it over West Ham have no intention of insulting anyone when they sing it - its just a nickname of where they come from etc.

I wish Badiel would shut his trap too, how many times has he used Jewish innuendos in his stand up routines to make a living? Makes me sick .

exactly chicken. Remeber years ago Baddiel using "avi" the Rabbi in one of his skits. I was a bit young at the time but watching back on it now could be offensive to some people. I speak as a guy with jewish background who's mums side of the family are all jewish and big spurs supporters.......not one of them feels offended by the "y id" chants and actually love the way the fans have adopted it. This is the same for the vast majority of jews and Spurs supporters. F uck them mate and sing it proudly..........WE SING WHAT WE WANT!!!! Y ID ARMY Y ID ARMY!!!!

Don,

Language is generally only considered offensive if the perpetrator is intending to do so.

With the Yíd chant, we are using it in an encouraging, happy and endearing way - not to offend. And that is the difference.

Badiel mentioned the "N" word but black people often use that word towards eachother in the same way - which was actually confirmed on that documentary that Ron Atkinson done some years ago.

If any word is used in an offensive way, then people will be offended. What i dont understand is, who has actually complained about the word? I bet its not from anyone in the Spurs ground or the players - so who exactly is being offended?

No-one. Facking joke...

From my understanding, if a goalkeeper deliberately handballs the ball outside his box then it is a red card.

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No, a keeper outside the box is treated exactly as an outfield player - if they stop a clear goal scoring chance it's a red.

Usually if they handle they are last man though. He wasn't in this case, there were two other players between ball and goal and the player had a lot of work to do to score - controlling the ball, looking up, getting a shot off before Lloris recovered, and getting it past at least two players.

Two things though....

1. Who is a clear goal scoring chance defined by? To Messi that was 100% a clear chance, yet to Marlon Harewood you could take away both defenders and it still wouldn't be

2. Not 100% convinced by Lloris. I like the way he attacks the ball and the fact he can actually play, but his actual shot-stopping is suspect to me, and he seems a little lightweight at times.

^Not to say he won't improve as he fully settles before I get the angry replies

HRH,

You are not a real Spurs fan...

I know - he's not on the official list of players you can criticise

I like him, don't get me wrong, I'm just not as clap-happy with him as the general consensus seems to be. More to come hopefully

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Dembele is so last season. 100% latter list then, getting towards the former list now.

What amazes me is players getting written off because we sign someone in their position, who automatically becomes better. As if you just have 11 players for the season

From my understanding, if a goalkeeper deliberately handballs the ball outside his box then it is a red card.
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chicken

HRH is spot on its not an intant red if a keeper deliberately handballs outside of his area, he is covered by exactly the same Laws as any other player and if its not a clear goalscoring opportunity then its a yellow

grand,

I am pretty sure that the rules for a goalkeeper handling is different to an outfield player.

Maybe someone can find the official FIFA ruling for this to put it to bed?

As i say, my Firewall blocks such searches but am interested to know.

Why would it be different? A hand ball is a hand ball - it doesn't make it any worse if it's a keeper.

It's all about how many other players there are that could prevent a goal scoring chance.

HRH,

Thinking about it, i'm pretty sure a delibearte handball by an outfield player would also result in a red card - so maybe you are right.

I just cannot imagine so many pundits (& journalists) would have suggested it could have been a red if it was totally against the rules to send of a keeper in that instance.

I know journos are often bad, but they very rarely (if at all) fail to get the rules correct - i'm sure they would get a backlash if they did.

"Outside his own penalty area, the goalkeeper has the same restrictions
on handling the ball as any other player."

FIFA rules (pg 119 per doc - pg 121 in acrobat viewer)
http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/footballdevelopment/refereeing/81/42/36/log2013en_neutral.pdf

I know journos are often bad, but they very rarely (if at all) fail to get the rules correct - i'm sure they would get a backlash if they did.

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You have to be kidding there fella - they are no more qualified to talk about the rules of football than the knowledgable fan.

Backlash from who? Large swathes of fans don't have a clue about the rules either.

Hugo got lucky.
Even from different camera angles it was close, but if the ref had been closer he may have called it .

This is about the Norwich one

Cardiff would have 100% been a red

Norwich punch-out : not last man or clear goal-scoring opportunity.

TheKaisersTrainers

"Outside his own penalty area, the goalkeeper has the same restrictions
on handling the ball as any other player."

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That just refers to the fact that neither the GK or an outfield player can handle the ball outside.

Do you know what the punishment is for each?

I always thought that a deliberate handball by the keeper (obviously outside the box) was a sending off.

HRH

This is about the Norwich one

Cardiff would have 100% been a red

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That is a bit contradicting. How can you say that a deliberate handball outside the box is different in the 2 circumstances?

same restrictions = same fouls/punishments

when you leave your area you're the same as all the other players

TheKaisersTrainers

same restrictions = same fouls/punishments

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But isnt a deliberate handball by an outfield player punishable by a red card too?

if it denies a goalscoring opportunity then yes

just ignore the fact that he's a keeper because it's irrelevant as soon as he crosses the 18