Comment deleted by Site Moderator
I mean 2nd behind PSG. We somehow have higher net spending than Real over the past 5 years.
Buying average players, giving them high wages, realising they aren't quite good enough and then not being able to sell them is a big problem.
The club have let 4 senior defenders leave and have signed just 1 to replace them before first game of season. And he got injured anyway.
I don't know who is to blame for that. Is it Van Gaal? Is it Woodward for failing to secure defensive targets? But whoever it is, it's fecking criminal and amateur and it's cost us a good start to the season.
If it were any other club, we'd be laughing our heads off at the situation.
Indeed, 1982.
Look at all the money spent on Fellaini, Young, Jones, Smalling, Mata, Kagawa and RVP and then ask yourself whether or not they've justified or whether they were necessary?
Our squad is one of the most expensive in Europe. But it's not one of the best in Europe because the players have either been average, not fulfilled potential or weren't in positions of priority - hence why we've such an unbalanced squad, even though we do have some very talented players.
If we don't make any more signings, I think all the blame has to be on Woodward, because LVG has openly come out and said we need signings.
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comment by 'Bats' (U18355)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by 'Bats' (U18355)
posted 2 minutes ago
"Yes, but LVG has only been in charge a few weeks. Without him telling Ed who he wants, what does it matter how long Ed's been in position? He needs direction from LVG."
Who directed him to signing Herrera and Shaw?
-----------
The deals were already in place and LVG gave them the rubber stamp.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How were the deals already in place when LVG wasn't there to give Woodward 'direction'?
-----------
Is that a serious question? Everyone knows that they were long term targets of the club and the deals were in place. LVG said as much himself.
comment by 'Bats' (U18355)
posted 5 minutes ago
Nothing wrong with giving LVG a chance. Just like there is nothing wrong with fans worrying that for the umpteenth window in a row, the club will not address glaring weaknesses in the squad and continue to fall behind the rest.
------
Crystal ball time again!
What's annoys me is the whole assessing things. I understand it, but there are obvious weaknesses.
I said with Moyes that I understood why he wanted to assess the squad, even though I didn't really agree, but with LVG it's more difficult because he's trying to do things that are radically different in terms of style of play whereas I don't think Moyes was going to and wanted to just try and carry on what Fergie was doing but buy bigger names (and obviously play more defensive ).
So what one manager deems as surplus may not be deemed as surplus by another. And as we've had a squad of players managed by three different managers in the space of over a year, plus the signings they've made in the last two, it complicates things.
Elvis
Doesn't last summers mess have any bearing on your views of how the next 2 windows COULD go though?
I know we have a new manager but everyone else in charge of getting deals in are the same as last summer.
So we have established the club spends big money just on average players ( although shaw Herrera and mata are far from average) so who is to blame for the current squad? SAF and moyes. And they have gone
I therefore think we now need to give LVG two windows before we judge him.
Is anyone starting to feel a tad more sorry for Moyes than they did last season?
I never wanted him from the off and made that abundantly clear but I think it's fairly obvious that Moyes isn't the biggest culprit in all this mess.
No, he inherited a good squad plus spent £64m and took us to 7th.
No, he inherited a good squad plus spent £64m and took us to 7th.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey I'm no Moyes fan. Far from it. But to suggest he took over a good squad is absolute nonsense. The team was coming to the end and RVP got us over the line in Fergie's last year.
Also he spent £40m of the £70m when it was already too late. The damage had been done.
I've always felt sorry for Moyes, he was never good enough but equally he wasn't completely to blame for the mess.
The problem is people like to simplify things and lay blame on one element when the fact is it was a number of problems that led to the mess that happened last season.
Which also applies now, there are likely a number of factors that are effecting our transfer dealings, Woodward being one of them. To just ignore it as a possible issue and state we should wait 2 weeks to voice our concerns is a defeatist mentality.
How can you feel sorry for that face? http://media1.sulia.com/static/user_images/4/2013-09-22/331174b5-702f-4f1b-95f7-9f633f46c060.png
To rate a title winning squad as less than good is nonsense. Ok it's not great but come on. It was still a good squad.
And if it was such a poor squad why was everybody appalled at moyes performance?
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
He did that but had no help from the club Woodward was clueless last summer. Moyes wanted the right kind of players at least before panicking and buying Fellaini.
We never replaced Scholes,Giggs and now Evra,Ferdinand,Vidic with quality
It's hard to call him a villain though in the grand scheme of things. Yes he made some big mistakes at the end of his career but if you were sent back to 1986 and asked if you wanted Ferguson knowing everything he would achieve after (good and bad) you would take it, no question.
Fergie did make some poor signings towards the end however he probably genuinely thought the squad was good enough. He won us the league, he got us comfortably beating Real Madrid in the champions league before nani sending off. As he was such a good manager he probably under estimated his abilities and thought the squad was really good. It's to his fault there is no one as good as him.
To rate a title winning squad as less than good is nonsense. Ok it's not great but come on. It was still a good squad.
And if it was such a poor squad why was everybody appalled at moyes performance?
----------------------------------------------------------------
If you remember back to that season.......we went behind 17 times in the league and somehow fought our way back with RVP magic. Almost every game was 3-2 away from home. The warning signs were there. The defence and midfield were poor and getting worse. Our forward line saved the day.
Plus the in-fighting at City and Chelsea didn't harm our chances either.
On paper that season and squad looks far better than it actually was. The football we played was dire. Our defending was appalling. Our lack of goals from midfield was shocking.
Yet we won the title by 11 pts. Go figure. Football can be strange at times.
The real issue with Utd is they have lost their aura of invincibility ever since SAF left. I think Mourinho may have been the only one who could have restored it.
Teams now go to Old Trafford thinking they can win, rather than already knowing that a point is the best they can hope for.
Fergie's biggest strength also became one of his biggest weaknesses: his faith in his players.
He lost that ruthlessness he used to have when he was younger and persisted with players that were either past it or not good enough for too long.
In 2008/2009 we had one of the strongest squads in Europe. Fast forward a few years and the decline is striking.
Yes Moyes was crap and the club haven't done enough since Fergie retired. But Fergie needs to take a lot of the blame for the squad getting to this level.
Stretford - agree completely about SAF contribution to where we are now.
I don't think LVG has it all that bad though. 2 or 3 signings and Het the squad fit and I believe we can compete again.
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 37 seconds ago
The real issue with Utd is they have lost their aura of invincibility ever since SAF left. I think Mourinho may have been the only one who could have restored it.
Teams now go to Old Trafford thinking they can win, rather than already knowing that a point is the best they can hope for.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It really is not that simple. Yes that aura has gone as has a vast amount of experience and quality, Vidic,Rio,Evra,Scholes,Giggs and Carrick, Rafael, Evas, RVP missing doesn't help.
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posted on 19/8/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 19/8/14
I mean 2nd behind PSG. We somehow have higher net spending than Real over the past 5 years.
Buying average players, giving them high wages, realising they aren't quite good enough and then not being able to sell them is a big problem.
posted on 19/8/14
The club have let 4 senior defenders leave and have signed just 1 to replace them before first game of season. And he got injured anyway.
I don't know who is to blame for that. Is it Van Gaal? Is it Woodward for failing to secure defensive targets? But whoever it is, it's fecking criminal and amateur and it's cost us a good start to the season.
If it were any other club, we'd be laughing our heads off at the situation.
posted on 19/8/14
Indeed, 1982.
Look at all the money spent on Fellaini, Young, Jones, Smalling, Mata, Kagawa and RVP and then ask yourself whether or not they've justified or whether they were necessary?
Our squad is one of the most expensive in Europe. But it's not one of the best in Europe because the players have either been average, not fulfilled potential or weren't in positions of priority - hence why we've such an unbalanced squad, even though we do have some very talented players.
posted on 19/8/14
If we don't make any more signings, I think all the blame has to be on Woodward, because LVG has openly come out and said we need signings.
posted on 19/8/14
Reply | Add Comment | Complain
comment by 'Bats' (U18355)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by 'Bats' (U18355)
posted 2 minutes ago
"Yes, but LVG has only been in charge a few weeks. Without him telling Ed who he wants, what does it matter how long Ed's been in position? He needs direction from LVG."
Who directed him to signing Herrera and Shaw?
-----------
The deals were already in place and LVG gave them the rubber stamp.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How were the deals already in place when LVG wasn't there to give Woodward 'direction'?
-----------
Is that a serious question? Everyone knows that they were long term targets of the club and the deals were in place. LVG said as much himself.
posted on 19/8/14
comment by 'Bats' (U18355)
posted 5 minutes ago
Nothing wrong with giving LVG a chance. Just like there is nothing wrong with fans worrying that for the umpteenth window in a row, the club will not address glaring weaknesses in the squad and continue to fall behind the rest.
------
Crystal ball time again!
posted on 19/8/14
What's annoys me is the whole assessing things. I understand it, but there are obvious weaknesses.
I said with Moyes that I understood why he wanted to assess the squad, even though I didn't really agree, but with LVG it's more difficult because he's trying to do things that are radically different in terms of style of play whereas I don't think Moyes was going to and wanted to just try and carry on what Fergie was doing but buy bigger names (and obviously play more defensive ).
So what one manager deems as surplus may not be deemed as surplus by another. And as we've had a squad of players managed by three different managers in the space of over a year, plus the signings they've made in the last two, it complicates things.
posted on 19/8/14
Elvis
Doesn't last summers mess have any bearing on your views of how the next 2 windows COULD go though?
I know we have a new manager but everyone else in charge of getting deals in are the same as last summer.
posted on 19/8/14
So we have established the club spends big money just on average players ( although shaw Herrera and mata are far from average) so who is to blame for the current squad? SAF and moyes. And they have gone
I therefore think we now need to give LVG two windows before we judge him.
posted on 19/8/14
Is anyone starting to feel a tad more sorry for Moyes than they did last season?
I never wanted him from the off and made that abundantly clear but I think it's fairly obvious that Moyes isn't the biggest culprit in all this mess.
posted on 19/8/14
No, he inherited a good squad plus spent £64m and took us to 7th.
posted on 19/8/14
No, he inherited a good squad plus spent £64m and took us to 7th.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey I'm no Moyes fan. Far from it. But to suggest he took over a good squad is absolute nonsense. The team was coming to the end and RVP got us over the line in Fergie's last year.
Also he spent £40m of the £70m when it was already too late. The damage had been done.
posted on 19/8/14
I've always felt sorry for Moyes, he was never good enough but equally he wasn't completely to blame for the mess.
The problem is people like to simplify things and lay blame on one element when the fact is it was a number of problems that led to the mess that happened last season.
Which also applies now, there are likely a number of factors that are effecting our transfer dealings, Woodward being one of them. To just ignore it as a possible issue and state we should wait 2 weeks to voice our concerns is a defeatist mentality.
posted on 19/8/14
How can you feel sorry for that face? http://media1.sulia.com/static/user_images/4/2013-09-22/331174b5-702f-4f1b-95f7-9f633f46c060.png
posted on 19/8/14
To rate a title winning squad as less than good is nonsense. Ok it's not great but come on. It was still a good squad.
And if it was such a poor squad why was everybody appalled at moyes performance?
posted on 19/8/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 19/8/14
He did that but had no help from the club Woodward was clueless last summer. Moyes wanted the right kind of players at least before panicking and buying Fellaini.
We never replaced Scholes,Giggs and now Evra,Ferdinand,Vidic with quality
posted on 19/8/14
It's hard to call him a villain though in the grand scheme of things. Yes he made some big mistakes at the end of his career but if you were sent back to 1986 and asked if you wanted Ferguson knowing everything he would achieve after (good and bad) you would take it, no question.
posted on 19/8/14
Fergie did make some poor signings towards the end however he probably genuinely thought the squad was good enough. He won us the league, he got us comfortably beating Real Madrid in the champions league before nani sending off. As he was such a good manager he probably under estimated his abilities and thought the squad was really good. It's to his fault there is no one as good as him.
posted on 19/8/14
To rate a title winning squad as less than good is nonsense. Ok it's not great but come on. It was still a good squad.
And if it was such a poor squad why was everybody appalled at moyes performance?
----------------------------------------------------------------
If you remember back to that season.......we went behind 17 times in the league and somehow fought our way back with RVP magic. Almost every game was 3-2 away from home. The warning signs were there. The defence and midfield were poor and getting worse. Our forward line saved the day.
Plus the in-fighting at City and Chelsea didn't harm our chances either.
On paper that season and squad looks far better than it actually was. The football we played was dire. Our defending was appalling. Our lack of goals from midfield was shocking.
Yet we won the title by 11 pts. Go figure. Football can be strange at times.
posted on 19/8/14
The real issue with Utd is they have lost their aura of invincibility ever since SAF left. I think Mourinho may have been the only one who could have restored it.
Teams now go to Old Trafford thinking they can win, rather than already knowing that a point is the best they can hope for.
posted on 19/8/14
Fergie's biggest strength also became one of his biggest weaknesses: his faith in his players.
He lost that ruthlessness he used to have when he was younger and persisted with players that were either past it or not good enough for too long.
In 2008/2009 we had one of the strongest squads in Europe. Fast forward a few years and the decline is striking.
Yes Moyes was crap and the club haven't done enough since Fergie retired. But Fergie needs to take a lot of the blame for the squad getting to this level.
posted on 19/8/14
Stretford - agree completely about SAF contribution to where we are now.
I don't think LVG has it all that bad though. 2 or 3 signings and Het the squad fit and I believe we can compete again.
posted on 19/8/14
comment by Edinspur (U1109)
posted 37 seconds ago
The real issue with Utd is they have lost their aura of invincibility ever since SAF left. I think Mourinho may have been the only one who could have restored it.
Teams now go to Old Trafford thinking they can win, rather than already knowing that a point is the best they can hope for.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It really is not that simple. Yes that aura has gone as has a vast amount of experience and quality, Vidic,Rio,Evra,Scholes,Giggs and Carrick, Rafael, Evas, RVP missing doesn't help.
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