Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Lewis will always rank above tyson but nobody can say tyson in the 80s-early 90s was overrated, he just had no longtivety, he was the youngest HW champion and the first to win all belts, you cant say that's not a huge achievement!
Lewis has longtivety aswell as beating everyone he had fought, so he will rightly be placed higher!
Let's face it though D4 mike Tyson hasn't ducked anyone promotors duck and bowe ducked but that's in (and pacquiao)
comment by The Guvnor V.I.K II-Frankenstein's Monste... (U12889)
posted 2 hours, 58 minutes ago
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted 11 hours, 37 minutes ago
comment by The Guvnor V.I.K II-Frankenstein's Monste... (U12889)
posted 4 minutes ago
Tyson on jail:
"I was having so much seex that I was too tired to even to go the gym and work out,"
"I'd just stay in my cell all day."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well there you go. If Tyson was too busy getting laid while in prison instead of going to the gym then he only has himself to blame.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
of course it was his fault he went to prison nobody is saying he was framed ffs.Tyson was not perfect by any stretch of the imagination.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I never said it wasn't Tyson's fault that he went to prison.
It was however Tyson's fault that he rarely or never trained while in prison. He could have kept himself in great shape had he wanted to.
Not sure why we keep having to talk about Tyson in this thread.
Yes he was an extremely entertaining fighter to watch in the 80's but that doesn't mean he was a truly great fighter.
I think this is where many people get confused in how they judge Tyson among the greats.
As mentioned before Tyson never beat another world class fighter. Certainly not one in his prime.
Holmes was an old man when he fought Tyson.
As for Spinks he was right at the end of his career when he fought Tyson and as has been mentioned was more of a natural light heavyweight.
In every fight where Tyson was really tested he was found wanting. Under no circumstances is he anywhere near the top ten all time greats.
You could argue that Lewis has never beaten a great in his prime, the closest he's got is vitali
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by diamond (U18412)
posted 39 minutes ago
You could argue that Lewis has never beaten a great in his prime, the closest he's got is vitali
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vitali surely goes down as a great and an older Lewis beat a prime Vitali fair and square.
Lewis also beat an all-time great Holyfield at a time when Holyfield was doing some of his best fighting even if he wasn't quite as young as he once was.
Tyson doesn't have any scalps even close to that in his career.
comment by The Guvnor V.I.K II-Frankenstein's Monste... (U12889)
posted 23 minutes ago
Controversial beating of vitali. That rematch should have happened.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lewis smashed Vitali's upper face to pulp and won the fight fair and square.
Vitali had his shot against Lewis and he was unsuccessful. How many chances was Lewis meant to give Vitali ?
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by The Guvnor V.I.K II-Frankenstein's Monste... (U12889)
posted 7 hours, 14 minutes ago
The debate over tyson/lewis could go on forever but one thing is for sure and recognised throughout the ages and that is
Ali>>>>>>>>>>>Lewis
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can say Ali achieve more "greatness"
But who would win in a bout when the are both in their primes may be a more difficult question to answer.
comment by The Guvnor V.I.K II-Frankenstein's Monste... (U12889)
posted 47 minutes ago
Controversial beating of vitali. That rematch should have happened.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lewis should have demanded Olympic style blood testing
That's all well and good but Lewis was right at the first and of his career and was well within his rights to retire to when he did.
He'd beaten every single fighter that was put in front of him in his career and he clearly felt that he could no longer give his best at his age.
That decision should be respected seeing as so few fighters retire at the right time and more often than not come out of retirement to fight again only to get beat.
comment by D4thincarnation (U2520)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by The Guvnor V.I.K II-Frankenstein's Monste... (U12889)
posted 7 hours, 14 minutes ago
The debate over tyson/lewis could go on forever but one thing is for sure and recognised throughout the ages and that is
Ali>>>>>>>>>>>Lewis
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can say Ali achieve more "greatness"
But who would win in a bout when the are both in their primes may be a more difficult question to answer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
D4 I see we have a similar opinion on all this.
My take on Ali is that he was undeniably the greatest but that doesn't necessarily mean he was the best.
In my opinion Ali's greatness is measured on the whole package, ie the man he was, his charisma, his involvement in memorable fights, his fighting style and the fact that he was such a huge icon.
For those reasons I also consider Ali the "greatest" because he undoubtedly had such greatness about him in so many areas.
But having said all that I don't think he was the very best Heavyweight of all time. He's right up there though, no doubt
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
when the fight was stopped, vitali was winning the fight
correct decision to stop it..no arguments about that though
comment by The Guvnor V.I.K II-Frankenstein's Monster (U12889)
posted 8 hours, 57 minutes ago
comment by Kayal's pending name-change. (U13244)
posted 10 hours, 52 minutes ago
comment by The Guvnor V.I.K II-Frankenstein's Monster (U12889)
posted 51 minutes ago
comment by Kayal's pending name-change. (U13244)
posted 1 hour, 10 minutes ago
Tyson is the most over rated boxer of all time. Lewis would have boxed circles around even a prime Tyson.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How on earth would lewis out box a prime tyson? We are all entitled to our opinions as are you but to say a boxer would out box a prime mike tyson leads me to think 1)You have never watched boxing or 2)You have never seen mike tyson in his prime.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Tyson was a monster in his prime and a huge hitter, his boxing skills were good, but not elite. He walked through opponents in his early career, he won the HW title without having to beat a *great* fighter. Most of his opponents were no better than decent. Holmes was WAY out of his prime when Tyson beat him, came in off the back of two defeats. Spinks was the most convincing name he beat and he started out as a LHW, was never going to handle Tyson's power. Then was knocked out by Douglas (pre-jail) and was never the same.
He never won any of his biggest fights, usually because he was comprehensively out-boxed and struggled a lot against the guys with a long reach. He knew he couldn't beat Holyfield and got DQ'd out of pure fear/frustration. Lewis was the exact type Tyson couldn't beat, plus a far superior technical boxer and is streets ahead of Tyson in terms of being an all-time great.
Casual fans have elevated Tyson into something of a mythical level, because he gave them what they wanted to see. He's not even a top 15
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tyson had the basics down pat.He had world class balance,head movement,hands were always high and he slipped and counter punched very well. he showed good balance, exceptional head movement, kept his hands high, ducked and bent at the waist to remain in punching position and he slipped, blocked and countered punches very well.
Tyson in his prime was a devastating combination puncher in his youth, and a skill he hardly showed after prison probably due to him not being mentally hungry for boxing any more. He had a terrific body punch and you could could count on one hand the amount of boxers who were faster than mike in his youth.Physically and boxing wise he was a beast it was perhaps his mental ability that let him down.
Name me 15 fighters who you regard as greater than mike tyson in his prime?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Ali
Joe Louis
Lennox Lewis
Rocky Marciano
Sonny Liston
George Foreman
Joe Frazier
Larry Holmes
Evander Holyfield
Jack Dempsey
Jack Johnson
Floyd Patterson
All better than Tyson. Maybe exaggerated a bit saying 15, but not far off it. He was not THAT good. His boxing skills were good, I said, but they were never *great*. He always struggled against technically sound and tactically good fighters, but would walk through the one's that went toe-to-toe.
when the fight was stopped, vitali was winning the fight
------------------------------------
Vitali's face was a state when Lewis stopped him, he fought well but was beaten fairly, don't know why that's a stick to beat Lewis with.
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CAcQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mightyfighter.com%2Ftop-10-worst-injuries-in-boxing%2F&ei=j5dxVMT2H9jcaoyWgCA&bvm=bv.80185997,d.d2s&psig=AFQjCNHGgMM27ewuAvNOgckK486ihfxfsw&ust=1416816909058147
If that fight continued, Vitali loses that eye imo.3 cuts around one eye with one being an open gash with exposed tissue ffs! The fight was favoiuring Klit, however i have no real doubt that Lewis would have ended Klits career if the fight had gone on.
Some of those names mentioned who could beat Tyson in his prime are a joke.
Jesus, to say he struggled against technically and tactically sound boxers is absolute mince too.
His chin (pre-jail) was absolutely rock solid. His head movement and hand-speed were second to none. He was concussive with either hand. His stamina was never in doubt, in fact, in his prime, I don't think he really ever 'gassed'.
He would've torn apart all of that list of 15 barring perhaps Ali and Foreman. Lewis wouldn't have handled him in his prime, no chance at all.
Tyson is quite simply (pre-jail) one of the best ever Heavyweights and it is a shame that he is never recognised that way.
He would've torn apart all of that list of 15 barring perhaps Ali and Foreman. Lewis wouldn't have handled him in his prime, no chance at all.
------------------------------
And yet the best fighter that Tyson ever beat was bricking it, over the hill cruiserweight Spinks.
He would've torn apart all of that list of 15 barring perhaps Ali and Foreman. Lewis wouldn't have handled him in his prime, no chance at all.
----------------------------------------------------------
The list is fighters that are ahead of Tyson as all-time great heavyweights, held the title of longer and beat better fighter than Tyson did.
The rest of the point is nonsense. Of course he could have beaten some of those had circumstances been right (Holmes for example), but they all could've beaten him too. Anyone can beat anyone in boxing.
What was Tyson's prime? Pre-jail? Cause pre-jail he got KO'd and outclassed by Buster fecking Douglas. Or was his prime just any fight before he got beat? Prime and in form aren't the same thing You can't just make excuses for every defeat because you like a fighter
If getting KO'd by that bum was possible, you can't say there was no way Lewis would have beat him
I also never said Tyson was a bad boxer, he was a great boxer but technically his boxing skills were never "elite" level. The intricacies of his timing and footwork let him down in a lot of fights, letting clever guys tie him up and negate his power. Even in some of his early fights that went 12 rounds (Smith&Tucker), he would slip and stay to try and unload, instead of slipping out and coming back. Because guys over 6'3 could still keep out the way of those power shots at close range. Don't remember him KOing anyone over 6'3 which is why I say he struggled against big, rangy fighters, like Lewis. Also, excuse it as "not prime" if you want, but Holyfield comprehensively out-boxed him when he held two heavyweight titles.
I give up. It is obviously the "Hate Mike" fanclub
Look, the older guys in your list were good, very good, but training techniques such as diets, fitness regimes, etc had advanced quite a bit.
"The list is fighters that are ahead of Tyson as all-time great heavyweights, held the title of longer and beat better fighter than Tyson did".
In your opinion
" but technically his boxing skills were never "elite" level."
Ok, in your opinion, who had better hand-speed, head-movement, feet-movement than Tyson from your list. Not just one ability from each of the boxers you have nominated, one who had all that on their own.
In your own time. Because looking at the list you have, I would say only Ali comes close.
Don't hate Tyson at all, loved watching him. That doesn't mean he is close to any of the guys I mentioned as all-time greats.
Sign in if you want to comment
Lennox Lewis is the best Heavyweight ever
Page 4 of 8
6 | 7 | 8
posted on 22/11/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 22/11/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 22/11/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 22/11/14
Lewis will always rank above tyson but nobody can say tyson in the 80s-early 90s was overrated, he just had no longtivety, he was the youngest HW champion and the first to win all belts, you cant say that's not a huge achievement!
Lewis has longtivety aswell as beating everyone he had fought, so he will rightly be placed higher!
Let's face it though D4 mike Tyson hasn't ducked anyone promotors duck and bowe ducked but that's in (and pacquiao)
posted on 22/11/14
comment by The Guvnor V.I.K II-Frankenstein's Monste... (U12889)
posted 2 hours, 58 minutes ago
comment by Superb (U6486)
posted 11 hours, 37 minutes ago
comment by The Guvnor V.I.K II-Frankenstein's Monste... (U12889)
posted 4 minutes ago
Tyson on jail:
"I was having so much seex that I was too tired to even to go the gym and work out,"
"I'd just stay in my cell all day."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well there you go. If Tyson was too busy getting laid while in prison instead of going to the gym then he only has himself to blame.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
of course it was his fault he went to prison nobody is saying he was framed ffs.Tyson was not perfect by any stretch of the imagination.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I never said it wasn't Tyson's fault that he went to prison.
It was however Tyson's fault that he rarely or never trained while in prison. He could have kept himself in great shape had he wanted to.
posted on 22/11/14
Not sure why we keep having to talk about Tyson in this thread.
Yes he was an extremely entertaining fighter to watch in the 80's but that doesn't mean he was a truly great fighter.
I think this is where many people get confused in how they judge Tyson among the greats.
As mentioned before Tyson never beat another world class fighter. Certainly not one in his prime.
Holmes was an old man when he fought Tyson.
As for Spinks he was right at the end of his career when he fought Tyson and as has been mentioned was more of a natural light heavyweight.
In every fight where Tyson was really tested he was found wanting. Under no circumstances is he anywhere near the top ten all time greats.
posted on 22/11/14
You could argue that Lewis has never beaten a great in his prime, the closest he's got is vitali
posted on 22/11/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 22/11/14
comment by diamond (U18412)
posted 39 minutes ago
You could argue that Lewis has never beaten a great in his prime, the closest he's got is vitali
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Vitali surely goes down as a great and an older Lewis beat a prime Vitali fair and square.
Lewis also beat an all-time great Holyfield at a time when Holyfield was doing some of his best fighting even if he wasn't quite as young as he once was.
Tyson doesn't have any scalps even close to that in his career.
posted on 22/11/14
comment by The Guvnor V.I.K II-Frankenstein's Monste... (U12889)
posted 23 minutes ago
Controversial beating of vitali. That rematch should have happened.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lewis smashed Vitali's upper face to pulp and won the fight fair and square.
Vitali had his shot against Lewis and he was unsuccessful. How many chances was Lewis meant to give Vitali ?
posted on 22/11/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 22/11/14
comment by The Guvnor V.I.K II-Frankenstein's Monste... (U12889)
posted 7 hours, 14 minutes ago
The debate over tyson/lewis could go on forever but one thing is for sure and recognised throughout the ages and that is
Ali>>>>>>>>>>>Lewis
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can say Ali achieve more "greatness"
But who would win in a bout when the are both in their primes may be a more difficult question to answer.
posted on 22/11/14
comment by The Guvnor V.I.K II-Frankenstein's Monste... (U12889)
posted 47 minutes ago
Controversial beating of vitali. That rematch should have happened.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lewis should have demanded Olympic style blood testing
posted on 22/11/14
That's all well and good but Lewis was right at the first and of his career and was well within his rights to retire to when he did.
He'd beaten every single fighter that was put in front of him in his career and he clearly felt that he could no longer give his best at his age.
That decision should be respected seeing as so few fighters retire at the right time and more often than not come out of retirement to fight again only to get beat.
posted on 22/11/14
comment by D4thincarnation (U2520)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by The Guvnor V.I.K II-Frankenstein's Monste... (U12889)
posted 7 hours, 14 minutes ago
The debate over tyson/lewis could go on forever but one thing is for sure and recognised throughout the ages and that is
Ali>>>>>>>>>>>Lewis
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can say Ali achieve more "greatness"
But who would win in a bout when the are both in their primes may be a more difficult question to answer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
D4 I see we have a similar opinion on all this.
My take on Ali is that he was undeniably the greatest but that doesn't necessarily mean he was the best.
In my opinion Ali's greatness is measured on the whole package, ie the man he was, his charisma, his involvement in memorable fights, his fighting style and the fact that he was such a huge icon.
For those reasons I also consider Ali the "greatest" because he undoubtedly had such greatness about him in so many areas.
But having said all that I don't think he was the very best Heavyweight of all time. He's right up there though, no doubt
posted on 22/11/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 22/11/14
when the fight was stopped, vitali was winning the fight
correct decision to stop it..no arguments about that though
posted on 22/11/14
comment by The Guvnor V.I.K II-Frankenstein's Monster (U12889)
posted 8 hours, 57 minutes ago
comment by Kayal's pending name-change. (U13244)
posted 10 hours, 52 minutes ago
comment by The Guvnor V.I.K II-Frankenstein's Monster (U12889)
posted 51 minutes ago
comment by Kayal's pending name-change. (U13244)
posted 1 hour, 10 minutes ago
Tyson is the most over rated boxer of all time. Lewis would have boxed circles around even a prime Tyson.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How on earth would lewis out box a prime tyson? We are all entitled to our opinions as are you but to say a boxer would out box a prime mike tyson leads me to think 1)You have never watched boxing or 2)You have never seen mike tyson in his prime.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Tyson was a monster in his prime and a huge hitter, his boxing skills were good, but not elite. He walked through opponents in his early career, he won the HW title without having to beat a *great* fighter. Most of his opponents were no better than decent. Holmes was WAY out of his prime when Tyson beat him, came in off the back of two defeats. Spinks was the most convincing name he beat and he started out as a LHW, was never going to handle Tyson's power. Then was knocked out by Douglas (pre-jail) and was never the same.
He never won any of his biggest fights, usually because he was comprehensively out-boxed and struggled a lot against the guys with a long reach. He knew he couldn't beat Holyfield and got DQ'd out of pure fear/frustration. Lewis was the exact type Tyson couldn't beat, plus a far superior technical boxer and is streets ahead of Tyson in terms of being an all-time great.
Casual fans have elevated Tyson into something of a mythical level, because he gave them what they wanted to see. He's not even a top 15
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tyson had the basics down pat.He had world class balance,head movement,hands were always high and he slipped and counter punched very well. he showed good balance, exceptional head movement, kept his hands high, ducked and bent at the waist to remain in punching position and he slipped, blocked and countered punches very well.
Tyson in his prime was a devastating combination puncher in his youth, and a skill he hardly showed after prison probably due to him not being mentally hungry for boxing any more. He had a terrific body punch and you could could count on one hand the amount of boxers who were faster than mike in his youth.Physically and boxing wise he was a beast it was perhaps his mental ability that let him down.
Name me 15 fighters who you regard as greater than mike tyson in his prime?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Ali
Joe Louis
Lennox Lewis
Rocky Marciano
Sonny Liston
George Foreman
Joe Frazier
Larry Holmes
Evander Holyfield
Jack Dempsey
Jack Johnson
Floyd Patterson
All better than Tyson. Maybe exaggerated a bit saying 15, but not far off it. He was not THAT good. His boxing skills were good, I said, but they were never *great*. He always struggled against technically sound and tactically good fighters, but would walk through the one's that went toe-to-toe.
when the fight was stopped, vitali was winning the fight
------------------------------------
Vitali's face was a state when Lewis stopped him, he fought well but was beaten fairly, don't know why that's a stick to beat Lewis with.
posted on 23/11/14
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CAcQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mightyfighter.com%2Ftop-10-worst-injuries-in-boxing%2F&ei=j5dxVMT2H9jcaoyWgCA&bvm=bv.80185997,d.d2s&psig=AFQjCNHGgMM27ewuAvNOgckK486ihfxfsw&ust=1416816909058147
If that fight continued, Vitali loses that eye imo.3 cuts around one eye with one being an open gash with exposed tissue ffs! The fight was favoiuring Klit, however i have no real doubt that Lewis would have ended Klits career if the fight had gone on.
posted on 23/11/14
Some of those names mentioned who could beat Tyson in his prime are a joke.
Jesus, to say he struggled against technically and tactically sound boxers is absolute mince too.
His chin (pre-jail) was absolutely rock solid. His head movement and hand-speed were second to none. He was concussive with either hand. His stamina was never in doubt, in fact, in his prime, I don't think he really ever 'gassed'.
He would've torn apart all of that list of 15 barring perhaps Ali and Foreman. Lewis wouldn't have handled him in his prime, no chance at all.
Tyson is quite simply (pre-jail) one of the best ever Heavyweights and it is a shame that he is never recognised that way.
posted on 23/11/14
He would've torn apart all of that list of 15 barring perhaps Ali and Foreman. Lewis wouldn't have handled him in his prime, no chance at all.
------------------------------
And yet the best fighter that Tyson ever beat was bricking it, over the hill cruiserweight Spinks.
posted on 23/11/14
He would've torn apart all of that list of 15 barring perhaps Ali and Foreman. Lewis wouldn't have handled him in his prime, no chance at all.
----------------------------------------------------------
The list is fighters that are ahead of Tyson as all-time great heavyweights, held the title of longer and beat better fighter than Tyson did.
The rest of the point is nonsense. Of course he could have beaten some of those had circumstances been right (Holmes for example), but they all could've beaten him too. Anyone can beat anyone in boxing.
What was Tyson's prime? Pre-jail? Cause pre-jail he got KO'd and outclassed by Buster fecking Douglas. Or was his prime just any fight before he got beat? Prime and in form aren't the same thing You can't just make excuses for every defeat because you like a fighter
If getting KO'd by that bum was possible, you can't say there was no way Lewis would have beat him
I also never said Tyson was a bad boxer, he was a great boxer but technically his boxing skills were never "elite" level. The intricacies of his timing and footwork let him down in a lot of fights, letting clever guys tie him up and negate his power. Even in some of his early fights that went 12 rounds (Smith&Tucker), he would slip and stay to try and unload, instead of slipping out and coming back. Because guys over 6'3 could still keep out the way of those power shots at close range. Don't remember him KOing anyone over 6'3 which is why I say he struggled against big, rangy fighters, like Lewis. Also, excuse it as "not prime" if you want, but Holyfield comprehensively out-boxed him when he held two heavyweight titles.
posted on 23/11/14
I give up. It is obviously the "Hate Mike" fanclub
Look, the older guys in your list were good, very good, but training techniques such as diets, fitness regimes, etc had advanced quite a bit.
"The list is fighters that are ahead of Tyson as all-time great heavyweights, held the title of longer and beat better fighter than Tyson did".
In your opinion
posted on 23/11/14
" but technically his boxing skills were never "elite" level."
Ok, in your opinion, who had better hand-speed, head-movement, feet-movement than Tyson from your list. Not just one ability from each of the boxers you have nominated, one who had all that on their own.
In your own time. Because looking at the list you have, I would say only Ali comes close.
posted on 23/11/14
Don't hate Tyson at all, loved watching him. That doesn't mean he is close to any of the guys I mentioned as all-time greats.
Page 4 of 8
6 | 7 | 8