Superb
I apoligisee mate.
I do respect your opinion but to say Lewis was the best ever heavyweight champion is like saying Giggs was better than Ronoldo (CR7).Giggs great player yes , not close to Ronoldos class.
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To say Tyson in his prime had not got elite footwork defense and jab is just wrong. So wrong actually I'll just leave it at that.
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I've explained in detail how he didn't and backed up my claims. Not seen anyone explain how he does
It is clear as daylight that ali fought the better fighters in a period where the heavyweight division was stacked with talent.
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Nobody is disputing that but it's not Lewis's fault he didn't fight in the 70's. If he had done then I suspect he would have been the dominant heavyweight in that era as well.
Either way Lennox fought in a competitive era. He fought and beat both Holyfield and Vitali who themselves would have given any of the great heavyweights in history a run for their money.
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comment by WHL Lifer #2 (U9994)
posted 13 hours, 10 minutes ago
I've read the 5-6 pages on this article and just can't believe some of the utter nonsense.
To say Tyson in his prime had not got elite footwork defense and jab is just wrong. So wrong actually I'll just leave it at that. Lewis was a great heavyweight top 10 imho but to say he was the best ever is just wrong too. Prime Tyson would have knocked Lewis clean out.
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I agree 100%, but I understand if Lewis fans think differently.
Well that is all hypothetical stuff,the fact is he didn't and therefore in my opinion can never be considered above ali.
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So only the fighters who fought in the 70's can be considered the best ? That's a bit unfair.
Lewis didn't choose which era to fight in. Either way the 90's wasn't a bad era for Heavyweight boxing. It looks brilliant compared to today's garbage.
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What is your reasons for lewis being greater than ali because we are going in circles here and i'd look to get some clarity.
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As I've said before Lewis was the total package or about as close as we've ever seen in the HW division in my opinion. He had pretty much all the attributes you look for in a HW.
Size, strength, agility, punching power and was a very intelligent fighter. He was able to adapt and change styles against different fighters which was key to his success.
In fact we haven't seen another HW with as many key attributes combined with boxing intelligence as Lewis in my opinion. Not sure we will again.
Not taking anything away from Ali though. He was a great fighter but history has been kind to him. Many experts think that Ken Norton got the better of Ali and I'm inclined to agree.
Also Frazier beat Ali and their fights were extremely close overall. So this idea that Ali totally dominated the 70's is a fallacy when you actually break it down.
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Now this next bit is hypothetical and subjective but this is how i see a lewis vs ali match up going.
Ali on his toes for the whole fight not giving lewis anything to hit.Lewis was deadly when he had a stationary target but ali would be anything but stationary. Speed kills and ali had it in abundance. I think he would have made lewis swing and miss the whole fight. If lewis did land some big shots which i think he would at certain points in the fight i think ali could absorb it.Now make no mistakes ali had a ok defence but not a stellar one when it came to inside fighting. He hardly ever went to the body and if ali was to go toe to toe with lewis he would be in trouble.Actually if ali for a second stopped his movement and decided to stay stationary lewis could hurt him. But ali wasn't a stupid fighter and he fought to win.I have no doubt in my mind he would stick and move against the bigger fighter in lewis.Ali wasn't the biggest puncher but there could also be a chance of him landing on lewis whos chin was questionable.
Overall outcome:
Ali win via Unanimous decision.
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Interesting take on the fight. Personally I think that Lewis 's reach would be a major issue even if Ali did keep moving around the ring.
Lewis had excellent punching power as well which is a part of his game that is never fully acknowledged.
If Lewis was able to connect (and I think he would be) then Ali would be in big trouble.
Then again we all know that Lewis was often too cautious so whether he would take the fight to Ali is a different matter.
Lewis certainly wouldn't have fallen for any of Ali's tricks though as he was too smart and tactical for that.
If they fought three times then I suspect that Lewis wins two out of three.
If they fought three times then I suspect that Lewis wins two out of three.
As hypothetical as it is, I can't argue with that
i'm gonna put out there that a prime tyson (and yes his prime was brief, maybe only 1-2yrs) woulda beat ANY heavyweight ..all of the greats included..
you guys need to stop watching post rooney, drugged up , badly trained, post 3 yrs in the slammer tyson, that
fought holyfield and lewis...and watch the guy that fought spinks ..
that tyson, was the most destructive heavyweight of all time
Superb showing his lack of knowledge again. Ali is undisputed the greatest ever. Lewis the best haha
comment by Larry Holmes Jab (U20302)
posted 1 day, 15 hours ago
Superb showing his lack of knowledge again. Ali is undisputed the greatest ever. Lewis the best haha
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I'm not disputing that Ali is the "Greatest" but that doesn't necessarily make him the best Heavyweight ever.
Ali was great for so many reasons. He had a charisma that we'll never ever see again from any fighter. He was incredibly brave and never ducked anyone (although a rematch with Foreman would have been good).
Ali had many great attributes as a fighter and was a joy to watch in many of his fights. He had incredible speed and agility for a Heavyweight, more so in his younger days.
Undoubtedly Ali is one of the very best Heavyweights of all time but in my opinion not the very best.
The point of this article was to imagine a scenario where all the Heavyweight Champions throughout history in their prime were able to fight each other in a Round Robin type tournament.
In my opinion Lewis is the one who would come out with the most wins. That's not to say that Lewis would win every fight. He'd probably lose at least a couple for sure.
The very underrated Larry Holmes would have been a tough opponent for Lewis. Ali himself would obviously have been a tough opponent for Lewis.
Prime Wlad would probably cause Lewis problems as well. I don't think the smaller guys like 5" 11 Joe Frazier or 5" 10 Rocky Marciano would have beaten Lewis because he was simply too big and strong for them.
That's no disrespect to the great Rocky Marciano or Smokin Joe as they were both among the very best Heavyweights of all time. But size is undoubtedly an issue here.
Either way it's just about opinions. If someone else were to tell me that they thought that Joe Louis was the best ever Heavyweight I could happily respect that.
There's no definitive way to answer the question but it's fun to debate in a sensible way.
Lewis's defeats against McCall and Rahman will always count against him when comparing him against the all time greats. Ali on his worst night would not have been beaten by them never mind stopped.
I can see your point superb about Lewis against smaller heavyweights like Frazier, but whilst he was by no means chinny, Foreman landing a clean shot on him would worry me being of a similar size bearing in mind McCall and Rahman.
There's no getting away from those two defeats but McCall was actually a really good fighter despite his mental health issues and Lewis avenged that defeat anyway.
As for Rahman, Lewis turned up in South Africa completely overweight and clearly didnt train well or take the fight too seriously.
In the rematch Lennox knocked Rahman into tomorrow and there was never any call for a third fight such was the demolition job that Lewis did that night.
As for Foreman he would have troubled any Heavyweight but he wasn't a smart fighter whereas Lennox was. So Lennox outsmarts Foreman in my opinion, just like Ali did.
A younger Larry Holmes gives Lewis all sorts of trouble.
As so nicely put it is hard to compare 5'10/11 14st 7lb fighters to 6'5 17st modern heavies although exceptional fighters like Holyfield shows if you got a good chin you got a chance. Holyfield at 6'4 16st takes a lot of stopping.
Yeah I think that prime Holyfield holds his own against many of the Heavyweight champions throughout history. He was a true warrior and very brave.
Not sure he's quite as big as 6"4 though. I think he's more like 6"2 although I'd have to check.
But yeah Heavyweights are just getting bigger all the time. That's why its so difficult to compare Heavyweights from different eras as modern Heavys have such a big size advantage.
If you were 6"3 back in the 70's you were one of the bigger Heavyweights. Now you're one of the smallest at that height.
Ali is the greatest and the best because he has by far the superior resume to anyone and has beaten some of the best heavyweights of all time. Lewis is my favourite heavyweight and you can rank him anywhere from 2nd to 10th but I strongly disagree that he comes out on top head to head against the best. And Joe Frazier would be a facking nightmare for Lewis. If you saw the Mercer Lewis fight I think you would know Lewis has his hands full against Frazier
Lennox has Tyson, Holyfield and Vitali on his resume.
And the only heavyweight champ other than Marciano that retired beating everyone that he faced.
Going back in time Henry Cooper was by these days standards a cruiserweight and John Conteh started off as a heavyweight until the story goes Ali said he was not big enough.
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Lennox Lewis is the best Heavyweight ever
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posted on 26/11/14
Superb
I apoligisee mate.
I do respect your opinion but to say Lewis was the best ever heavyweight champion is like saying Giggs was better than Ronoldo (CR7).Giggs great player yes , not close to Ronoldos class.
posted on 26/11/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 26/11/14
To say Tyson in his prime had not got elite footwork defense and jab is just wrong. So wrong actually I'll just leave it at that.
--------------------------------------
I've explained in detail how he didn't and backed up my claims. Not seen anyone explain how he does
posted on 26/11/14
It is clear as daylight that ali fought the better fighters in a period where the heavyweight division was stacked with talent.
-----------------------------
Nobody is disputing that but it's not Lewis's fault he didn't fight in the 70's. If he had done then I suspect he would have been the dominant heavyweight in that era as well.
Either way Lennox fought in a competitive era. He fought and beat both Holyfield and Vitali who themselves would have given any of the great heavyweights in history a run for their money.
posted on 26/11/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 26/11/14
comment by WHL Lifer #2 (U9994)
posted 13 hours, 10 minutes ago
I've read the 5-6 pages on this article and just can't believe some of the utter nonsense.
To say Tyson in his prime had not got elite footwork defense and jab is just wrong. So wrong actually I'll just leave it at that. Lewis was a great heavyweight top 10 imho but to say he was the best ever is just wrong too. Prime Tyson would have knocked Lewis clean out.
=======================================
I agree 100%, but I understand if Lewis fans think differently.
posted on 26/11/14
Well that is all hypothetical stuff,the fact is he didn't and therefore in my opinion can never be considered above ali.
---------------------------------
So only the fighters who fought in the 70's can be considered the best ? That's a bit unfair.
Lewis didn't choose which era to fight in. Either way the 90's wasn't a bad era for Heavyweight boxing. It looks brilliant compared to today's garbage.
posted on 26/11/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 26/11/14
What is your reasons for lewis being greater than ali because we are going in circles here and i'd look to get some clarity.
--------------------------
As I've said before Lewis was the total package or about as close as we've ever seen in the HW division in my opinion. He had pretty much all the attributes you look for in a HW.
Size, strength, agility, punching power and was a very intelligent fighter. He was able to adapt and change styles against different fighters which was key to his success.
In fact we haven't seen another HW with as many key attributes combined with boxing intelligence as Lewis in my opinion. Not sure we will again.
Not taking anything away from Ali though. He was a great fighter but history has been kind to him. Many experts think that Ken Norton got the better of Ali and I'm inclined to agree.
Also Frazier beat Ali and their fights were extremely close overall. So this idea that Ali totally dominated the 70's is a fallacy when you actually break it down.
posted on 26/11/14
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posted on 26/11/14
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posted on 26/11/14
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posted on 26/11/14
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 26/11/14
Now this next bit is hypothetical and subjective but this is how i see a lewis vs ali match up going.
Ali on his toes for the whole fight not giving lewis anything to hit.Lewis was deadly when he had a stationary target but ali would be anything but stationary. Speed kills and ali had it in abundance. I think he would have made lewis swing and miss the whole fight. If lewis did land some big shots which i think he would at certain points in the fight i think ali could absorb it.Now make no mistakes ali had a ok defence but not a stellar one when it came to inside fighting. He hardly ever went to the body and if ali was to go toe to toe with lewis he would be in trouble.Actually if ali for a second stopped his movement and decided to stay stationary lewis could hurt him. But ali wasn't a stupid fighter and he fought to win.I have no doubt in my mind he would stick and move against the bigger fighter in lewis.Ali wasn't the biggest puncher but there could also be a chance of him landing on lewis whos chin was questionable.
Overall outcome:
Ali win via Unanimous decision.
-------------------------
Interesting take on the fight. Personally I think that Lewis 's reach would be a major issue even if Ali did keep moving around the ring.
Lewis had excellent punching power as well which is a part of his game that is never fully acknowledged.
If Lewis was able to connect (and I think he would be) then Ali would be in big trouble.
Then again we all know that Lewis was often too cautious so whether he would take the fight to Ali is a different matter.
Lewis certainly wouldn't have fallen for any of Ali's tricks though as he was too smart and tactical for that.
If they fought three times then I suspect that Lewis wins two out of three.
posted on 26/11/14
If they fought three times then I suspect that Lewis wins two out of three.
As hypothetical as it is, I can't argue with that
posted on 3/12/14
i'm gonna put out there that a prime tyson (and yes his prime was brief, maybe only 1-2yrs) woulda beat ANY heavyweight ..all of the greats included..
you guys need to stop watching post rooney, drugged up , badly trained, post 3 yrs in the slammer tyson, that
fought holyfield and lewis...and watch the guy that fought spinks ..
that tyson, was the most destructive heavyweight of all time
posted on 27/1/15
Superb showing his lack of knowledge again. Ali is undisputed the greatest ever. Lewis the best haha
posted on 28/1/15
comment by Larry Holmes Jab (U20302)
posted 1 day, 15 hours ago
Superb showing his lack of knowledge again. Ali is undisputed the greatest ever. Lewis the best haha
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not disputing that Ali is the "Greatest" but that doesn't necessarily make him the best Heavyweight ever.
Ali was great for so many reasons. He had a charisma that we'll never ever see again from any fighter. He was incredibly brave and never ducked anyone (although a rematch with Foreman would have been good).
Ali had many great attributes as a fighter and was a joy to watch in many of his fights. He had incredible speed and agility for a Heavyweight, more so in his younger days.
Undoubtedly Ali is one of the very best Heavyweights of all time but in my opinion not the very best.
The point of this article was to imagine a scenario where all the Heavyweight Champions throughout history in their prime were able to fight each other in a Round Robin type tournament.
In my opinion Lewis is the one who would come out with the most wins. That's not to say that Lewis would win every fight. He'd probably lose at least a couple for sure.
The very underrated Larry Holmes would have been a tough opponent for Lewis. Ali himself would obviously have been a tough opponent for Lewis.
Prime Wlad would probably cause Lewis problems as well. I don't think the smaller guys like 5" 11 Joe Frazier or 5" 10 Rocky Marciano would have beaten Lewis because he was simply too big and strong for them.
That's no disrespect to the great Rocky Marciano or Smokin Joe as they were both among the very best Heavyweights of all time. But size is undoubtedly an issue here.
Either way it's just about opinions. If someone else were to tell me that they thought that Joe Louis was the best ever Heavyweight I could happily respect that.
There's no definitive way to answer the question but it's fun to debate in a sensible way.
posted on 28/1/15
Lewis's defeats against McCall and Rahman will always count against him when comparing him against the all time greats. Ali on his worst night would not have been beaten by them never mind stopped.
I can see your point superb about Lewis against smaller heavyweights like Frazier, but whilst he was by no means chinny, Foreman landing a clean shot on him would worry me being of a similar size bearing in mind McCall and Rahman.
posted on 28/1/15
There's no getting away from those two defeats but McCall was actually a really good fighter despite his mental health issues and Lewis avenged that defeat anyway.
As for Rahman, Lewis turned up in South Africa completely overweight and clearly didnt train well or take the fight too seriously.
In the rematch Lennox knocked Rahman into tomorrow and there was never any call for a third fight such was the demolition job that Lewis did that night.
As for Foreman he would have troubled any Heavyweight but he wasn't a smart fighter whereas Lennox was. So Lennox outsmarts Foreman in my opinion, just like Ali did.
posted on 28/1/15
A younger Larry Holmes gives Lewis all sorts of trouble.
As so nicely put it is hard to compare 5'10/11 14st 7lb fighters to 6'5 17st modern heavies although exceptional fighters like Holyfield shows if you got a good chin you got a chance. Holyfield at 6'4 16st takes a lot of stopping.
posted on 29/1/15
Yeah I think that prime Holyfield holds his own against many of the Heavyweight champions throughout history. He was a true warrior and very brave.
Not sure he's quite as big as 6"4 though. I think he's more like 6"2 although I'd have to check.
But yeah Heavyweights are just getting bigger all the time. That's why its so difficult to compare Heavyweights from different eras as modern Heavys have such a big size advantage.
If you were 6"3 back in the 70's you were one of the bigger Heavyweights. Now you're one of the smallest at that height.
posted on 29/1/15
Ali is the greatest and the best because he has by far the superior resume to anyone and has beaten some of the best heavyweights of all time. Lewis is my favourite heavyweight and you can rank him anywhere from 2nd to 10th but I strongly disagree that he comes out on top head to head against the best. And Joe Frazier would be a facking nightmare for Lewis. If you saw the Mercer Lewis fight I think you would know Lewis has his hands full against Frazier
posted on 29/1/15
Lennox has Tyson, Holyfield and Vitali on his resume.
And the only heavyweight champ other than Marciano that retired beating everyone that he faced.
posted on 29/1/15
Going back in time Henry Cooper was by these days standards a cruiserweight and John Conteh started off as a heavyweight until the story goes Ali said he was not big enough.
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