comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 2 minutes ago
Basically its a fight them as they fight you philosophy. In Iraq its seen as a an army v an army. On home soil its now your home is a legitimate target

There are rules to war in Islam (obviously some twist to abuse), my point isnt the right and wrong its the understanding your enemy

.........

I agree. It is why this can not end without a ground incursion. If they want to fight to the death, then that is what we have to do.
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Personally VC I dont think a ground incursion will be a good one.

Not only because these guys are well armed but also because there are certain prophecies they are trying to fulfill. Boots on the ground is one which tells of a battle with black flags (see why Isis use that banner?) coming from a place in khorasan

Now here is the kicker and something many people dont see, due to dictatorship and yes foreign policy etc the people in these places are largely uneducated and thus easily manipulated

I am a religious man myself and the worst person i have ever spoken to is not the atheist or the educated religious person but the poor farmer who never went to school, yet if the right person tells him that his God (as its not just muslims but Jews and Christians in these countries too) wants him to stand in his field for 6 days without food and water he will

BBC reporting that airstrikes are going to be approved and start in the next 24 hours.

Sche

You highlight the schism mentality so well,mate, and similar to protestants here,lol.
The 70k cameron says are FSA are split one hundred ways,and fighting to survive v assad,but we r told they will now attack isis....aye right Dave.

I actually hate that I agree with corbyn,but also hate how evil dictators and isis groups get away with murder,often because the west is morally bankrupt at times,badly led,and fickle as a gooner.

I just pray for peace and bomb no man,woman or child.

I still await the corbyn stop the war isolationist foreign policy to give hope to victims of assad,isis,bko haram,or indeed,the taliban,saddam or gadaffi in the recent past.

Doing nothing...is that their option?

Chilcot has found a life long job.

Now here is the kicker and something many people dont see, due to dictatorship and yes foreign policy etc the people in these places are largely uneducated and thus easily manipulated

.............

One of the US Generals said that the biggest failings of previous conflicts was to not educate these people once it was over.

And it needs to last a generation.

Who has the will is the question.

Mudd

Bbc reported how many dead and driven out over past few years,when we all sat back......calm down,you should h a ve been posti g a bout assad and isis,way before you get excited about our few bombers.
They have been bombing iraq,but is that ok in your head?
Syria is made up mudd,and we already bomb them,so we are already a target?We are already wrong and bombing,so why your hyperbole now?

Any how, I have a stack full of work to get on with.

A good debate was had here.

Sche

You are the man brother,and a breath of fresh air,in a world of fools and biased little men.
Talking to kung fu and others,I understand even more that isis are not following islam,so call them out on the teachings of the prophet,pbuh.

Call their bluff.

As you say,cultural differences are paramount,and I would talk to anyone to stop death,rape and evil.

Pick the battle,listen and learn,and in the name of god or allah,stop relying on bombs,guns,beheadings to solve problems,from all sides.

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 1 minute ago
Now here is the kicker and something many people dont see, due to dictatorship and yes foreign policy etc the people in these places are largely uneducated and thus easily manipulated

.............

One of the US Generals said that the biggest failings of previous conflicts was to not educate these people once it was over.

And it needs to last a generation.

Who has the will is the question.
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Its deeper than that often too. Not sure if i mentioned to you I am from Kashmir, or my family is and am sure you know the whole india pakistan conflict and the rebel groups in kashmir

In teh early 80's i was over there and spoke to a person who was ''mujahideen' (this was a good word then as we had seen many afghan refugees come through due to conflict with russia. I kid you not they literally camped on our back yard on their way through

Now these mujahideen are often presented as noble warriors fighting for a cause, but i found that some did it as it was a wage and if killed their family would be looked after. Also many were mercenaries and one in particular was a man who had seen his family killed by Indian forces and his kid raped. He simply didnt question but killed first

The last one is the major issue with bombing tbh

Brimstone missiles

Admin

Please ban the bomb them all,or do fek all posters,the cameron/ blair types who never learn,and the corbyn/mudd types who never give an answer or solution.

Jestin n now restin.

Peace

VC,

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 2 hours, 9 minutes ago
I agree with that for the most part Ji.

But the UK is already a target of ISIS. Make no mistake, they will make an attack in the UK somewhere, sometime. And it will be done by UK grown maniacs that have decided to follow the cause.
----------------------------

The question is *why* is the UK already a target?

The answer is well understood from high level sources including the US state department, MI5, RAND, Home Office & Foreign Office, Joint Terrorist Analysis Center, the MOD and attackers/would be/attempted attackers themselves, to name just a few...

Happy to provide all the relevant sources/documentation also.

comment by thebluebellsareblue (U9292)
posted 1 second ago
Sche

You are the man brother,and a breath of fresh air,in a world of fools and biased little men.
Talking to kung fu and others,I understand even more that isis are not following islam,so call them out on the teachings of the prophet,pbuh.

Call their bluff.

As you say,cultural differences are paramount,and I would talk to anyone to stop death,rape and evil.

Pick the battle,listen and learn,and in the name of god or allah,stop relying on bombs,guns,beheadings to solve problems,from all sides.
----------------------------------------------------------------------


The key in Syria is to see who is a friend, and no I dont mean who the govt sees as a friend necessarily but public and hopefully then public opinion gets a sort of ''arab spring'' vibe but in the UK etc

What I mean is that we cant on one hand criticise teh saudis for their beheadings and stonings but then be friends with the Yazidis. Who if one of their women folk becomes muslim literally stamp on her head until she is dead

The Dahibiya (sp) or Assad secret police, who are basically these huge stedded up fellas who literally rip the arms and legs off kids

Both the above have been videoed

Then you have the factions like JN who are AQ affiliates but who fight ISIS, no way should they be armed but will be via FSA and kurds as an enemies enemy is a friend. But what happens after?

The kurds are in it for a homeland and a lot of people dont know that many kurd rebels are in UK as refugees etc. These are trained men, some who go back and fight then return with blessings. Now say teh war is won and Turkey says no chance and Britain agrees?

Its a keg of gunpowder and bombing etc is not even scratching the surface

Please provide relevant sources/documentation. Thanks in advance.

comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 2 minutes ago
VC,

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 2 hours, 9 minutes ago
I agree with that for the most part Ji.

But the UK is already a target of ISIS. Make no mistake, they will make an attack in the UK somewhere, sometime. And it will be done by UK grown maniacs that have decided to follow the cause.
----------------------------

The question is *why* is the UK already a target?

The answer is well understood from high level sources including the US state department, MI5, RAND, Home Office & Foreign Office, Joint Terrorist Analysis Center, the MOD and attackers/would be/attempted attackers themselves, to name just a few...

Happy to provide all the relevant sources/documentation also.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

There is one question I would ask of the UK govt if i could and that is this whole ''we have foiled 7 plots''

I would like the details, unlikely I know

Reason being that I am not convinced this isnt like the whole WMD's

As someone who worked in community safety etc I keep upto date with certain things, including funding and its always striking how when funding is cut then certain things appear on the horizon

But also I followed a couple of cases where people were arrested and imprisoned and tbh they were idiots but a threat? not sure. EG a guy given 6 years for shouting slogans at a rally. He was charged with incitement to murder, not UK either but he was saying bomb denmark or something similar

Is that a threat? or a foiled attack?

When it comes to the secret services as far as I'm concerned, Ignorance is bliss...most of the time.

If we're heading into war again, like you I'd want to know how serious and credible these foiled attacks were.

Will be home soon so will link up the documents/sources.

There is one question I would ask of the UK govt if i could and that is this whole ''we have foiled 7 plots''

I would like the details, unlikely I know

.............

Another catch 22. Providing detail will inevitably help the terrorists.

The question is *why* is the UK already a target?

.............

Not to me. I already know why. Answers as to how to stop the bad guys is my remit here.

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 19 minutes ago
There is one question I would ask of the UK govt if i could and that is this whole ''we have foiled 7 plots''

I would like the details, unlikely I know

.............

Another catch 22. Providing detail will inevitably help the terrorists.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

it doesnt have to be that detailed as in certain specifics, just a gist after all the terrorists and their people would know anyway and if foiled would try it different anyway?

looking at paris gig and russia theatre and market places in africa its not difficult to see a pattern emerging with terrorists

overall I disagree with you here VC and personally I am not convinced. We had high profile arrests in my neck of the woods. I knew one of the lads through his brother etc and yeah they were silly for saying certain things but what they were charged and are serving time for was never going to happen certainly not by them. They were idiots with big gobs in a time when should have shut it

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 22 minutes ago

The question is *why* is the UK already a target?

.............

Not to me. I already know why. Answers as to how to stop the bad guys is my remit here.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

WOuld be interested in hearing why you think it is VC

comment by thebluebellsareblue (U9292)
posted 2 hours, 41 minutes ago
Chambz

Why did stop the war remain silent over current iraq bombing,as we invented the made up border,so weird argument...lines in sand,ffs

Whole thing is a shambles, as and not worth our troops or people dying,even if for ethical reasons?

However,corbyn has allowed millions to die or be driven out,so no ethics from the left...and no lectures ,mudd.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Can you please explain how Corbyn has allowed millions to die?

Better still, can you explain how leftists allow people to die?

Many thanks

WOuld be interested in hearing why you think it is VC

...........

It is on one of the pages of this thread.

Last year it was bomb Assad, this year it is support Assad

See how fluid and complex is is? There are people living on the edge in our country but we have money for bombs.

Fecking joke

There are people living on the edge in our country but we have money for bombs.

.............

There are people living on the edge in countries who don't have the money for bombs.