comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 1 second ago
ISIS are self-sufficient (mostly). That funding is critical and needs to stop. If that means sanctions on, ending trade with, or booting from NATO (Turkey), then that should be seriously explored.

.............

Good grief.

...........

So we waste time exploring this while ISIS continue to behead any infidel they can get their hands on.

OK.
-------------------------------

Classic VC; pick a sentence - any sentence - ignore the rest and provide no content or thoughts to further the discussion.

Or we can skip the bit where we kill children from the air?

If ISIS are self sufficient, able to grow, able to recruit, able to buy arms... How, in your misplaced arrogant wisdom, do you expect any action to be long lasting? You can't be dense enough to suggest that elementary and imperative ground work (cutting funding etc...) is not worth the time of day.

Furthermore, if beheading is your big concern, it's instructive that you didn't write:

"So we waste time exploring this while our ally Saudi Arabia continue to behead any infidel they can get their hands on".

Not that exploring this would take much time. There's been many reports over the last few weeks that are heavily linking funding to Turkey and others.

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 6 hours, 59 minutes ago
comment by meltonblue (U10617)




posted 1 hour ago



There's a big difference between Iraq and Afghanistan and this to be fair, I'm not sure I get the comparable.

.............

Exactly Melton.

This is a completely different scenario.

If nothing is done to take these twisted individuals out, then Paris will happen everywhere every day in time.

They have made it abundantly clear what their goal is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Easy then.

We just need to:

- Identify every existing IS supporter, wherever they might be
- Use our faultless precision target bombing to take out each and every one

We will kill them all, there won't be any collateral damage, and nobody else will ever have thoughts of violent jihadist action ever again.

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 4 minutes ago
There's plenty of things that can be done that don't involve actively killing Syrian children in their homes with 'surgical strikes'. Corbyn has mentioned many of these things.

.........................

Like what?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He literally listed a several in the post you quoted from.

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by Schepaymian (U19849)




posted 6 minutes ago



comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 1 minute ago
And who is suggesting 'leaving them alone'?

...........

Pretty sure that is Corbyns master plan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

nope

..............

What is his master plan?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Not what you have said

He has hsi views and doing nothing has never been part of it

He has been on political programmes and said what his views are, I can link you to some if still on iplayer etc

But can I say if you dont know then you really shouldnt be making statements like above

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 6 minutes ago
There's plenty of things that can be done that don't involve actively killing Syrian children in their homes with 'surgical strikes'. Corbyn has mentioned many of these things.

.........................

Like what?
------------

Are you having a laugh? The same post you previously picked one sentence from contained several things;

- Cut funding by penalising those who are funding them
- support regional powers/players who are definitely fighting ISIS
- reverse policies that are known to create and facilitate the conditions that lead to radicalisation
- tackle Islamaphobia at a community level
- address the economic condition that lead to disenfranchised young people

comment by JSPC - MUDD makes me throb with desire (U2958)
posted 19 seconds ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 4 minutes ago
There's plenty of things that can be done that don't involve actively killing Syrian children in their homes with 'surgical strikes'. Corbyn has mentioned many of these things.

.........................

Like what?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He literally listed a several in the post you quoted from.
----------------------------------------------------------------------


he is just being a diiiik now i think tbh

it was really good discussion with him initially

Ji

I get that. But it amounts to doing nothing much at all really.

If that is the will of the UK people, then fair enough.

None of that actually addresses the problem of these maniacs running around beheading or blowing up the infidels.

I hope everybody here who want to bomb densley populated cities killing civilians are ok with refugees coming to this country and more recruits for Daesh and the other groups.

This isn't an army in an open field it's a rabble amongst actual human beings, with lives and homes and children and jobs and everything people here hope and wish for.

Yes people in the Middle East are people Tas well, maybe consider they don't want more bombs dropping on there homes and children.

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 2 minutes

None of that actually addresses the problem of these maniacs running around beheading or blowing up the infidels.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
are you sure? majority being killed by isis are infidel?

The term "unwinnable war" gets used alot for good reason.

Bombing them will just spread them wider and will give them easy propaganda for the next generation.

Bargaining with them will get us nowhere, as we literally have nothing to offer them other than total dismantlement of our way of life or death... Two things that, for obvious reasons, we wont give them.

So if we cant beat them, we should look to minimize there threat and growth rate, which is what the above, non military steps hope to achieve.

It is all academic anyway... We will bomb them, they will carry on into the next generation, we will be at risk and we will get attacked.

Maybe doing the non military path would lead to the same outcome, but at least it isn't a tried and tested cycle of war/terrorism.

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 2 minutes ago
Ji

I get that. But it amounts to doing nothing much at all really.

If that is the will of the UK people, then fair enough.

None of that actually addresses the problem of these maniacs running around beheading or blowing up the infidels.
-----------------

Except it would.

- Cutting funding will weaken them overtime for obvious reasons that I *hope* don't need to be expressly written here.
- Supporting regional players will obviously weaken them on the ground and claw back territory.
- Reversing our policies will remove credible pretext to would-be terrorists to attack us and stop fostering the kind of anger that can be exploited/lead to radicalisation in the first place.
- More inclusive communities will prevent people going off seeking solace and inclusion wherever they can find it - be it crazy death cults or something more usual.
- Addressing the economic conditions is similar to the above point and hopefully obvious enough to not have to elaborate.

That's a lot of stuff, that will take time to implement and a form of governance that doesn't represent elite interests.

- Cut funding by penalising those who are funding them

................

Not sure how that will work. Especially If they are self sufficient.

..............

- support regional powers/players who are definitely fighting ISIS

.................

We are arming the Saudis to fight ISIS. other than that, who else in the region is doing anything.

.....................

- reverse policies that are known to create and facilitate the conditions that lead to radicalization

.....................

I agree. We should have ignored European law and throw out the hate preachers years ago.

......................

- tackle Islamaphobia at a community level

...................

This has to work both ways. ISIS have to stop running round beheading people who do not subscribe to their ideals.

....................

- address the economic condition that lead to disenfranchised young people

..........................

This one is just pure silly. The economic situation is far worse for others throughout the world, but they don't run around blowing up or beheading people.

None of that actually addresses the problem of these maniacs running around beheading or blowing up the infidels.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
are you sure? majority being killed by isis are infidel?

................

Let me change this for you so you can not misunderstand.

None of that actually addresses the problem of these maniacs running around beheading or blowing up people who do not subscribe to their ideals.

comment by BerbaKing11 (U6256)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 2 minutes ago
Ji

I get that. But it amounts to doing nothing much at all really.

If that is the will of the UK people, then fair enough.

None of that actually addresses the problem of these maniacs running around beheading or blowing up the infidels.
-----------------

Except it would.

- Cutting funding will weaken them overtime for obvious reasons that I *hope* don't need to be expressly written here.
- Supporting regional players will obviously weaken them on the ground and claw back territory.
- Reversing our policies will remove credible pretext to would-be terrorists to attack us and stop fostering the kind of anger that can be exploited/lead to radicalisation in the first place.
- More inclusive communities will prevent people going off seeking solace and inclusion wherever they can find it - be it crazy death cults or something more usual.
- Addressing the economic conditions is similar to the above point and hopefully obvious enough to not have to elaborate.

That's a lot of stuff, that will take time to implement and a form of governance that doesn't represent elite interests.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 52 seconds ago
None of that actually addresses the problem of these maniacs running around beheading or blowing up the infidels.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
are you sure? majority being killed by isis are infidel?

................

Let me change this for you so you can not misunderstand.

None of that actually addresses the problem of these maniacs running around beheading or blowing up people who do not subscribe to their ideals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------


let me explain it so you dont misunderstand

stop making chiit up

until we know what is the dynamics how do you propose to deal with it?

blind leading the blind

VC

Do you honestly think the actions of IS are either justification for or at the root of islamophobia?

The actions of terrorism are the route of islamaphobia

Do you honestly think the actions of IS are either justification for or at the root of islamophobia?

.................

To the uneducated, yes. It certainly isn't going to help.

What does the IS of ISIS stand for?

comment by LQ (U6305)
posted 53 seconds ago
The actions of terrorism are the route of islamaphobia
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The actions islamophobia are at the route of terrorism

"Not sure how that will work. Especially If they are self sufficient."
--------------------
"Self sufficient" doesn't mean the money grows out of their ears. It means that have a product (oil) and a market (customers). We need to halt their custom. We know about Turkey, but also several reports that Israel are implicated and so on.

"We are arming the Saudis to fight ISIS. other than that, who else in the region is doing anything."
------------------------

The Saudi's are more concerned with blowing up Yemeni kids with our weapons. They've made only token military gestures towards ISIS. I was talking about the Syrian government, Hezbollah, the Kurds, the Iranian back militias and the air power of Russia. We should ally with them in the short term, leading tactical and strategic support - maybe even some weapons - in a collaborative effort.

"I agree. We should have ignored European law and throw out the hate preachers years ago."
--------------

Not sure what you agree with here. I was talking about our violent, strategically and economically driven foreign policy, including our support of brutal regimes, extremist groups, drone campaign (extra judicial murder) and so on.

---------------------

"This has to work both ways. ISIS have to stop running round beheading people who do not subscribe to their ideals".

Again, not sure what you're on about here. I'm talking about here in the UK. We know that many of the people who join ISIS aren't even strong practicers of their faith, but have gone off to find inclusion and a sense of purpose in their lives. Islamaphobia has been around long before ISIS.

----------------------

"This one is just pure silly. The economic situation is far worse for others throughout the world, but they don't run around blowing up or beheading people."

It may seem silly to you, but serious study of this suggests it's a contributing factor to people joining extremist groups. Something ridiculous like 70% of British Muslims of South Asian ethnicity are in what's termed 'poverty' - high unemployment etc... These factors are exploited by those looking to recruit, so it's far from 'pure silly'.

Chicken and egg it is then.

The Saudi's are more concerned with blowing up Yemeni kids with our weapons

.....................

Do you know what we have armed the Saudis with?

comment by LQ (U6305)
posted 1 minute ago
Chicken and egg it is then.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Not sure it is tbh. The words "crusade". And us v them did more to alienate people in the me etc than people think. Then further reinforced by no wmds etc

Even in UK you get the whole non Muslim caught trying to blow up mosque and suspended sentence, Muslim made a speech and 6 years

Some if this may nor be strictly correct but eventually it all becomes a blurry mess

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 3 minutes ago
The Saudi's are more concerned with blowing up Yemeni kids with our weapons

.....................

Do you know what we have armed the Saudis with?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Tornado GR4 ground attack fighters and eurofighter typhoons

comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 7 minutes ago
Do you honestly think the actions of IS are either justification for or at the root of islamophobia?

.................

To the uneducated, yes. It certainly isn't going to help.

What does the IS of ISIS stand for?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which one...?

No, it won't help. But islamophobia was around a long time before IS or Al Qaeda turned up.

Alienation of Islamic members of the community certainly isn't going to help combat homegrown extremism. We need to ensure the nation's people and institutions stand alongside the Muslims of Britain, and support them in their efforts to protect their families from both radicalisation and discrimination.

Stepping back from all this, my thoughts today keep going back to the peace-loving men, women and children of Syria, what they are going through, and what is coming for them. I'm not a religious man in any way; if I was, I'd be praying for them tonight.