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comment by 1manontherun ™ - Buy Frank on Blu Ray (U4291)
posted 1 minute ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIPD8qHhtVU
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Jamie Vardy rap career didn't off I see

Agreed RR the nuance is lost on a lot of people. However, when the shock value of the distorts the message too much, that most can't understand it, I believe the cartoonist has failed in his job.

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I guess the question of success / failure depends on POV. I assume the cartoonist and editor are confident that the core readership are in the know and in this context the cartoon works.

But you're right to touch on the wider impact. It's a bit like the difference between making an ironically racist joke among a group of people who all know very well that all people present aren't racist and making the same joke (with the same benign intentions) in the presence of strangers. The existence of the digital, everyone-can-see-everything world definitely throws the CH kind of discourse into a different light. It's impossible to conduct that kind of satirical conversation in semi-private as it might have taken place even ten years ago.

That's not to say CH should now be obliged to talk about things in a way that can't be misconstrued by people with an over-literal reading of the world or misrepresented across social media. Just that it's a complicated world now and a fact that we're potentially talking to everyone at the same time and we have choices to make.

comment by Galvlad : Sun-dried lungs waistcoat (U10415)
posted 2 minutes ago
Must have been invented by now.
See what that idiot did? played right into their hands.
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SHAR IF U FINK DIS IS A DISCRACE

You can see it being dragged around the newsrooms in the middle east listed as far right propaganda or something.

comment by Mumbai Madge - I'm not actually a lady, or from India.... (U3867)
posted 6 minutes ago
The hashtag was an example of a form protest/showing support for freedom of speech
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I like to consider myself an individual voice too but i mean the only form of protest i would really take as defending those rights online

Your issue is with the virtue signalling mobs?

Source, please.

comment by 50 (U1147)
posted 1 hour ago
You'd think after getting shot at last year they'd be more open to respect
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Really? So shooting people is a valid means of earning respect is it?

Here we go again - 'we' are always so quick to jump on anyone offending muslims/immigrants but if its the other way round nobody wants to talk about it cowards

Here we go again - 'we' are always so quick to jump on anyone offending muslims/immigrants but if its the other way round nobody wants to talk about it cowards

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There's a middle ground between what you describe above and uncritically proclaiming Je suis Charlie. It's not necessarily cowardly to see shades of grey. For instance:

Violent neo-fascists = very bad
Violent Muslim extremists = very bad
People who don't want any Muslims living among them = a problem for social cohesion
European Muslims who can't tolerate European liberal values = a problem for social cohesion
An exaggerated perception of the number of Muslims who 'hate us' = not at all helpful
Living in denial about allowing immigration without integration = not at all helpful
Charlie Hebdo = certainly not the racist publication it had been made out to be; certainly has the right to be allowed to publish whatever it wants and to be protected from thugs; clearly takes some relish in offending people, including some minorities who don't have the same social status and voice that CH enjoys.

hundreds of innocent women were abused in numerous locations on new years eve, the media tried to hide and then deny the stories until they were forced to admit that asylum seekers were behind the attacks and then it was instantly a taboo subject that no one wanted to discuss as it didn't tow the 'pc' line - disgusting really

Source?

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Time for another world leaders march

I thought that was well documented and has been forcing Germany's hand to close the door on Migrants?

But you seem to know more than me I guess

French humour is mostly 5hite, usually revolves around mime and stuff.
Jacque Tati is about it.
Didnt even have a word for it at one time.
I mean to say, when the peasants were starving, Marie Antoinette didnt really mean let them eat cake, she was just having a laugh, and they simply took it the wrong way.

comment by Galvlad : Sun-dried lungs waistcoat (U10415)
posted 5 minutes ago
yeah yeah is all right imo
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A very wise analytical individual IMO

I mean to say, when the peasants were starving, Marie Antoinette didnt really mean let them eat cake, she was just having a laugh, and they simply took it the wrong way.
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Again it was in severely poor taste that joke but so much context to that controversy. They have a rich history of political cartoons as im sure anyone who had to study France in school is aware

comment by jlou1978 (U15376)
posted 4 minutes ago
French humour is mostly 5hite, usually revolves around mime and stuff.
Jacque Tati is about it.
Didnt even have a word for it at one time.
I mean to say, when the peasants were starving, Marie Antoinette didnt really mean let them eat cake, she was just having a laugh, and they simply took it the wrong way.
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Their miming during the Paris attacks was pretty good.

I thought that was well documented and has been forcing Germany's hand to close the door on Migrants?

At first it was hidden completely, then it was a minor news story with the BBC being very clear to point out in their article that this was not necessarily anything to do with asylum seekers that Germany had welcomed in last summer, the German police then confirmed it was and that they had been asked not to publicise this news and even now some jokers are still asking for a source and smiling about it

hundreds of innocent women were abused in numerous locations on new years eve, the media tried to hide and then deny the stories until they were forced to admit that asylum seekers were behind the attacks and then it was instantly a taboo subject that no one wanted to discuss as it didn't tow the 'pc' line - disgusting really

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Again, a bit of nuance would be useful. Media are going to be cautious about saying 'they were all Muslims' before it was fully substantiated. But the story was all over the mainstream media pretty soon after it happened. There are lots of reports about it, containing the full facts, on the Guardian website.

The PC thing certainly has led to blind spots, and it's high time they were corrected. At the same time, it's worth recalling why it arose. We used to have appalling mainstream racism: overt hostility and ignorant prejudice against ethnic minorities in general. What became known as PC made us as a society aware of the way in which language and journalistic reporting sometimes carried and affirmed these prejudices. We've grown up a lot since the 70s and 80s and most of us are now wary about generalisations and judging individuals according stereotypes.

It is good for a society to guard against lazy discrimination. At the same time, it's unhealthy to be so cautious about upsetting people that you stop telling the truth about what is happening. Clearly this has happened and it's clear that there is an understandable backlash. I welcome a sensible adjustment that clears away blind spots. What I won't welcome is a surge in the kinds of scapegoating and generalised hostility to entire communities that used to exist. It's clear on social media and from this website that the latter is on the rise.

Suddenly all right wingers have become feminists

How do you know all the women who were 'abused' weren't drunk and dressed provocatively?

On the specific Germany point, from what I read, it's still very unclear how many of the offenders were Syrian refugees. From what I read, a large number (possibly a majority) were longer-term residents and north Africans / Afghans rather than Syrians.

Not that this particularly affects the broader points about liberal blind spots or the need for a more demanding approach to integration / accepting European attitudes. But at the moment I don't think there's a factual basis to say that the offenders were the same people Europe let in last summer.

comment by ● (U4443)
posted 1 minute ago
How do you know all the women who were 'abused' weren't drunk and dressed provocatively?
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source?