comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted less than a minute ago
There is also an issue you havent considered that as we have now returned to democracy, the government that agrees to a deal that hands the NHS over to American corporations may have to wait a lfetime to be re-elected to office.
==============

I could have sworn we had democratic elections last year.

When did we abandon democracy
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Remain voters when they lost

comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 3 minutes ago
I have done reading on TTIP. I also have experience of negotiating multi million and multi billion pound contracts. I know how contracts work and we will not be at the table for TTIP as we are leaving the EU so will not be signatories ot the agreement, which is between the EU and US.

We will have to negotiate our own trade deals as our government, the US, the EU, the remain and leave camps have all said.
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If you know how contracts work, you will be aware of the term addendum to contracts, correct?

Variations, notifications, points of order, special clauses, etc?
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which apply to the signatories of the agreements.
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So you believe the US would negotiate a special deal with 1 country it does not buy a lot from that would be better than the deal they could get from 27.

Yup, you guys are deluded

comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted about a minute ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted less than a minute ago
There is also an issue you havent considered that as we have now returned to democracy, the government that agrees to a deal that hands the NHS over to American corporations may have to wait a lfetime to be re-elected to office.
==============

I could have sworn we had democratic elections last year.

When did we abandon democracy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Remain voters when they lost
----------------------------------------------------------------------

All of them?

comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted about a minute ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted less than a minute ago
There is also an issue you havent considered that as we have now returned to democracy, the government that agrees to a deal that hands the NHS over to American corporations may have to wait a lfetime to be re-elected to office.
==============

I could have sworn we had democratic elections last year.

When did we abandon democracy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Remain voters when they lost
----------------------------------------------------------------------

All of them?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just the ones who want the vote overturned.

And dont forget then EU bureaucrats who make the laws are unelected.

I am quite frankly amazed at your claim of negotiating billion dollar contracts.

You certainly are not debating like someone involved in contractual discussions.

Why would someone in a position of strength, kowtow to someone in a position of weakness?

Do you know how the EU bureaucrats get their jobs?

Are you also aware that Britain voted in favour of EU laws/regs, etc 96% of the time?

There is no point in entering a contract with someone who doesnt want to be in it. in order to maintaingood relationships it has to be worth it to both sides, thats why just about every negotiation Ive been involved with has been friendly and good natured. All this BS on tv of aggressive negotiaions is not what I have experienced in the realworld.

What industry do you work in if you do not mind me asking?

Spot on gooner

I've just taken voluntary redundancy and having a few months off, but it was in utilities and energy industry.

I can also say that points I alone raised in teh industry and did not back down on have saved every person in this country money on their fuel bills. Only a few quid a year, but it adds up.

comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted less than a minute ago
comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted about a minute ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted less than a minute ago
There is also an issue you havent considered that as we have now returned to democracy, the government that agrees to a deal that hands the NHS over to American corporations may have to wait a lfetime to be re-elected to office.
==============

I could have sworn we had democratic elections last year.

When did we abandon democracy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Remain voters when they lost
----------------------------------------------------------------------

All of them?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just the ones who want the vote overturned.

And dont forget then EU bureaucrats who make the laws are unelected.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Aren't MEP's democratically elected?

http://www.aboutmyvote.co.uk/what-can-i-vote-for/european-parliament

Excellent, how does EDF negotiate?

comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 12 seconds ago
Just the ones who want the vote overturned.

And dont forget then EU bureaucrats who make the laws are unelected.
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So just the idiots who signed a stupid petition then.

Not the ones who've said all along that the brexiters have made the bed but we all have to lie in it. Including myself who doesn't want to lie next to the bed wetting idiots who signed the petition.

Also don't forget the elected MEPs who have to sign off on those self same laws.

comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted less than a minute ago
Excellent, how does EDF negotiate?
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Wouldnt be appropriate to talk about individual companies, but I will say they didnt turn up as much as most other companies.

comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted less than a minute ago
Excellent, how does EDF negotiate?
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Wouldnt be appropriate to talk about individual companies, but I will say they didnt turn up as much as most other companies.
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Bit like UKIP then when votes were being cast on EU laws in the European Parliament.

When people talk about hard negotiations, they are not suggesting you get someone from MMA to discuss.

I work in Oil and Gas, we are very polite but we own the assets and we require services. To make money, Schlumberger, Halliburton, Baker etc have to convince me they are the best person to develop my assets.

Keep in mind, I have negotiated very strongly with the country who owns the assets and have ceded certain things to them but now, I own the asset.

What makes you think, I will give away more stuff to a company that is dependent on me for its survival?

There have been instances where we have set up service companies just to drive costs down to suit our agenda.

Somehow, some of you believe a country that is for the most part a service provider will dictate terms to countries it sells it services to is most amusing.

We have the 5th/6th largest economy in the world. How peolpe think we have nothing to offer is seriously undermining our worth. If the EU and US wanted to force this country into such a poor trade agreement that it would, significantly weaken us it would have repercussions worldwide.

Sounds to me like you are an asset stripper which is not normal contract negotiations. Most contracts are not designed to take ownership ofthe other parties assets or drive them out of business. It is about getting the best deal in an agreement which is acceptable to the other party and incentives them to perfom well.

comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 1 minute ago
Somehow, some of you believe a country that is for the most part a service provider will dictate terms to countries it sells it services to is most amusing.
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Not me. I know we're fecked when it comes to negotiating any trade deals.

We have very little to offer that the other side cannot get elsewhere.

We are just not in a strong enough position to force EU or US to sacrifice any of their demands in a trade negotiation.

What exactly can we offer that EU or US (or anybody else for that matter) cannot get elsewhere?

And dont forget then EU bureaucrats who make the laws are unelected.
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How many fecking times does this need to be addressed on here!

No treaty or primary legislation can be passed without the authority of the directly democratically-elected European Parliament.

NO UNELECTED OFFICIAL(S) CAN IMPOSE EU LAW ON ANYBODY.

If I have to explain this again, I will likely need therapeutic assistance thereafter.

comment by rossobianchi - carry me back to the Stretford End (U17054)
posted less than a minute ago
And dont forget then EU bureaucrats who make the laws are unelected.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many fecking times does this need to be addressed on here!

No treaty or primary legislation can be passed without the authority of the directly democratically-elected European Parliament.

NO UNELECTED OFFICIAL(S) CAN IMPOSE EU LAW ON ANYBODY.

If I have to explain this again, I will likely need therapeutic assistance thereafter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And dont forget then EU bureaucrats who make the laws are unelected.

Get well soon

What is in this 5th/6th largest economy in the world? Were do we stand in terms of manufacturing? What do we sell to the world?

I keep hearing this economy thing and it is clear to me a lot of you do not know what you are talking about.

I am not an asset stripper, I am an asset owner. The fields we own are worth billions of dollars and when I do my financial projections, I take into account who can do the best job at a reasonable price.

There is a reason why we build Platforms, Rigs and FPSOs in Korea and not here. Do you know why that is?

comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by rossobianchi - carry me back to the Stretford End (U17054)
posted less than a minute ago
And dont forget then EU bureaucrats who make the laws are unelected.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many fecking times does this need to be addressed on here!

No treaty or primary legislation can be passed without the authority of the directly democratically-elected European Parliament.

NO UNELECTED OFFICIAL(S) CAN IMPOSE EU LAW ON ANYBODY.

If I have to explain this again, I will likely need therapeutic assistance thereafter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And dont forget then EU bureaucrats who make the laws are unelected.

Get well soon
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And the MEPs still have to sign off on them laws. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid (I know ir's an Americanism but you get the gist)

comment by I am gooner now (U16927)
posted 23 seconds ago
comment by rossobianchi - carry me back to the Stretford End (U17054)
posted less than a minute ago
And dont forget then EU bureaucrats who make the laws are unelected.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many fecking times does this need to be addressed on here!

No treaty or primary legislation can be passed without the authority of the directly democratically-elected European Parliament.

NO UNELECTED OFFICIAL(S) CAN IMPOSE EU LAW ON ANYBODY.

If I have to explain this again, I will likely need therapeutic assistance thereafter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And dont forget then EU bureaucrats who make the laws are unelected.

Get well soon
----------------------------------------------------------------------


The whole 'EU is undemocratic' argument is the biggest anti-EU lie of them all in my opinion.

People can argue that they'd prefer decisions to be made at a more local (for example, a national) level. Fine. I don't have a problem with that argument.

But the EU in construct and governance is absolutely no less democratic than the UK. In fact, in several ways, it is more so.

comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted about a minute ago
What is in this 5th/6th largest economy in the world? Were do we stand in terms of manufacturing? What do we sell to the world?

I keep hearing this economy thing and it is clear to me a lot of you do not know what you are talking about.

I am not an asset stripper, I am an asset owner. The fields we own are worth billions of dollars and when I do my financial projections, I take into account who can do the best job at a reasonable price.

There is a reason why we build Platforms, Rigs and FPSOs in Korea and not here. Do you know why that is?
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Price, quality, timeframes, etc. But you didnt force them into a contract which they dont want to be in.