comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 3 minutes ago
The thing is, if he gets the right players and you start scoring chances, people will perceive it's attacking football anyway
-----------------
Not for me. Even when we were missing all those chances and drawing games, I was happy, as we were finally playing proper football again. I was feeling positive. Now I feel that Jose has reverted to type and the football is average.
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Robb : the Martin Samuel of ja606 (U21234)
posted 2 minutes ago
What you could manage is not relevant to the point is it?
As for Martial, I don't see him as a #9. He's more a winger imo
---------------------
I was 19, he is 19. He's much fitter than I ever was. Why is it not relevant?
You could be right about Martial, perhaps he is more of a winger. Still an option as a striker though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because the level you played at is completely different to the level he plays at.
jose wants fresh players, not ones playing at the edge of their capabilities against a side who have rested players for the past few weeks
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39840233
This pretty much sums up my point in the OP
Absolutely Darren, agree with all of that, which is why I expect him to spend big in the summer.
Zlatan I find quite similar to Aguero in that I think they cause as many problems as they solve for their managers. They will both individually always get goals
but it comes at a cost to the overall team in terms of
how both of them want to play.
comment by Robb : the Martin Samuel of ja606 (U21234)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Robb : the Martin Samuel of ja606 (U21234)
posted 2 minutes ago
What you could manage is not relevant to the point is it?
As for Martial, I don't see him as a #9. He's more a winger imo
---------------------
I was 19, he is 19. He's much fitter than I ever was. Why is it not relevant?
You could be right about Martial, perhaps he is more of a winger. Still an option as a striker though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because the level you played at is completely different to the level he plays at.
jose wants fresh players, not ones playing at the edge of their capabilities against a side who have rested players for the past few weeks
-------------------------------
What does the level matter? We both ran around for 90 minutes and gave everything we had. At 19 I could get up the following day and do it again, no problem. Most of my mates did too.
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 57 seconds ago
comment by Robb : the Martin Samuel of ja606 (U21234)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Robb : the Martin Samuel of ja606 (U21234)
posted 2 minutes ago
What you could manage is not relevant to the point is it?
As for Martial, I don't see him as a #9. He's more a winger imo
---------------------
I was 19, he is 19. He's much fitter than I ever was. Why is it not relevant?
You could be right about Martial, perhaps he is more of a winger. Still an option as a striker though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because the level you played at is completely different to the level he plays at.
jose wants fresh players, not ones playing at the edge of their capabilities against a side who have rested players for the past few weeks
-------------------------------
What does the level matter? We both ran around for 90 minutes and gave everything we had. At 19 I could get up the following day and do it again, no problem. Most of my mates did too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It really isn't the same thing.
Yep that's a fair comment, melts. The thing is, though, I don't Mourinho wants a really pacy striker for playing on the counter. Which is why, while Rashford has allowed for Mourinho to set up for this, I'm not convinced he's his ideal style of striker.
I think he wants a faster target man type. His history with strikers would suggest this.
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 1 minute ago
Absolutely Darren, agree with all of that, which is why I expect him to spend big in the summer.
Zlatan I find quite similar to Aguero in that I think they cause as many problems as they solve for their managers. They will both individually always get goals
but it comes at a cost to the overall team in terms of
how both of them want to play.
---------------------------------
Something I have said myself about Zlatan. You can't fault his commitment and performance levels this season - astounding for a 35 year old. But I think that the style of play that Jose plays to suit Zlatan/how he wants to use Zlatan come at the expense of entertainment. I also think that his presence has hampered the progress of Martial and Rashford. We have the players to play a more expansive game, but instead play quite direct.
Yep I agree with that too. I'm still unsure what the future holds for Rashford tbh. I honestly think he'd be better under a different manager for the next few years.
Thing is, Elvis, I think we played more attacking football with Zlatan in the team because we had to to play to his strengths - in the first half of the season anyway. Rashford or Martial would have seen a more defensive/counter attacking approach in many of the games we didn't because of their pace.
comment by Robb : the Martin Samuel of ja606 (U21234)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 57 seconds ago
comment by Robb : the Martin Samuel of ja606 (U21234)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Robb : the Martin Samuel of ja606 (U21234)
posted 2 minutes ago
What you could manage is not relevant to the point is it?
As for Martial, I don't see him as a #9. He's more a winger imo
---------------------
I was 19, he is 19. He's much fitter than I ever was. Why is it not relevant?
You could be right about Martial, perhaps he is more of a winger. Still an option as a striker though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because the level you played at is completely different to the level he plays at.
jose wants fresh players, not ones playing at the edge of their capabilities against a side who have rested players for the past few weeks
-------------------------------
What does the level matter? We both ran around for 90 minutes and gave everything we had. At 19 I could get up the following day and do it again, no problem. Most of my mates did too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It really isn't the same thing.
-----------------
Why not? He won't be any more tired than me when I'd played 90 minutes. And he has much better conditions for recover than I ever had.
It's the midfield too. I don't think Mkhi or Pogba have settled enough yet to really dictate the change in tempo of the transitions.
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by Robb : the Martin Samuel of ja606 (U21234)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 57 seconds ago
comment by Robb : the Martin Samuel of ja606 (U21234)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Robb : the Martin Samuel of ja606 (U21234)
posted 2 minutes ago
What you could manage is not relevant to the point is it?
As for Martial, I don't see him as a #9. He's more a winger imo
---------------------
I was 19, he is 19. He's much fitter than I ever was. Why is it not relevant?
You could be right about Martial, perhaps he is more of a winger. Still an option as a striker though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because the level you played at is completely different to the level he plays at.
jose wants fresh players, not ones playing at the edge of their capabilities against a side who have rested players for the past few weeks
-------------------------------
What does the level matter? We both ran around for 90 minutes and gave everything we had. At 19 I could get up the following day and do it again, no problem. Most of my mates did too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It really isn't the same thing.
-----------------
Why not? He won't be any more tired than me when I'd played 90 minutes. And he has much better conditions for recover than I ever had.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because he's playing against fitter people than you ever did so in the world of small margins it makes sense to not make him play 3 games in 8 days against players who will be playing 2 games in 8 days.
Small margins
So do I. Developing the flaws of attackers is something I've never been convinced by Mourinho, which is why he likes experienced attackers. His man management to get more consistency/big game performances his attackers are more of his thing than developing their game, in my opinion.
You look at the success Mourinho has had in the prem, his main strikers have been drogba and costa albeit for only one season. Rashford doesn't seem to fit that mould of a big powerful strong centre forward, he is strong and lightning quick but not built of the ilk of the two mentioned
melts, yeah and the defenders. They all just hoof it. Apart from Valencia and Blind.
Exactly. Mourinho would probably be fine for Rashford in five years time.
Yep noticed that too. It's part of the reason Valencia has stood out so much this year.
You look at the success Mkhi had at Dortmund, he was in a free flowing Dortmund side full of attacking verve and players making runs ahead of him like Auba and Reus. He was sensational. Today he was alongside Rooney and mata who aren't of that ilk pace wise. To get the best out of Mkhi I think we need a different type of player around him and a different tactical set up.
I am fairly certain Jose wants Griezmann as well as a striker.
I wonder which one he wants out of Lukaku and Belotti?
The hope I have for Rashford is that he seems to have a really good attitude and seems to want to improve himself, so unless he's stifled, he could potentially improve of his own accord.
I do think he's improved certain areas of his game as the season has gone on, game time helps because he's young, so playing wide is better than not at all.
He's holding the ball up a lot better now than he was. Because he's only 19 I wonder what his frame will be like when he's fully developed, if he isn't already.
Not sure Mourinho will have the patience with him as a strikee for us to see these developments, though.
I do think you have the options though as you have quite a diverse squad.
Mkhi (and Mata) feeding runners in Martial and Rashford would be really difficult to play against if set up right.
comment by Zlatan The King Ibrahimovic (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
Thing is, Elvis, I think we played more attacking football with Zlatan in the team because we had to to play to his strengths - in the first half of the season anyway. Rashford or Martial would have seen a more defensive/counter attacking approach in many of the games we didn't because of their pace.
------------------------------
The football was attacking in that we were getting the ball into his feet and he was very much a part of the approach play. We were keeping the ball on the deck and it was nice to watch. Once the results didn't come we went more direct and Jose started to utilise Zlatan's height more than his ability with the ball at his feet.
With regards to Mkhi I've been pretty underwhelmed.
I don't really see his as a Mourinho player because Jose doesn't historically set his teams up with a player like him.
I'd prefer to see us with a quality right sided attacker who will give us width, delivery and the ability to beat a man. Too many of our wide attackers want to be playing through the middle.
Yep I think he'll improve if his own accord Darren.
These next few years are pivotal though. If Mourinho could break the habit and really look to develop him rather than bring in exactly what he wants, it could make the difference between a very good striker and a world class one.
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posted on 8/5/17
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 3 minutes ago
The thing is, if he gets the right players and you start scoring chances, people will perceive it's attacking football anyway
-----------------
Not for me. Even when we were missing all those chances and drawing games, I was happy, as we were finally playing proper football again. I was feeling positive. Now I feel that Jose has reverted to type and the football is average.
posted on 8/5/17
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Robb : the Martin Samuel of ja606 (U21234)
posted 2 minutes ago
What you could manage is not relevant to the point is it?
As for Martial, I don't see him as a #9. He's more a winger imo
---------------------
I was 19, he is 19. He's much fitter than I ever was. Why is it not relevant?
You could be right about Martial, perhaps he is more of a winger. Still an option as a striker though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because the level you played at is completely different to the level he plays at.
jose wants fresh players, not ones playing at the edge of their capabilities against a side who have rested players for the past few weeks
posted on 8/5/17
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39840233
This pretty much sums up my point in the OP
posted on 8/5/17
Absolutely Darren, agree with all of that, which is why I expect him to spend big in the summer.
Zlatan I find quite similar to Aguero in that I think they cause as many problems as they solve for their managers. They will both individually always get goals
but it comes at a cost to the overall team in terms of
how both of them want to play.
posted on 8/5/17
comment by Robb : the Martin Samuel of ja606 (U21234)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Robb : the Martin Samuel of ja606 (U21234)
posted 2 minutes ago
What you could manage is not relevant to the point is it?
As for Martial, I don't see him as a #9. He's more a winger imo
---------------------
I was 19, he is 19. He's much fitter than I ever was. Why is it not relevant?
You could be right about Martial, perhaps he is more of a winger. Still an option as a striker though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because the level you played at is completely different to the level he plays at.
jose wants fresh players, not ones playing at the edge of their capabilities against a side who have rested players for the past few weeks
-------------------------------
What does the level matter? We both ran around for 90 minutes and gave everything we had. At 19 I could get up the following day and do it again, no problem. Most of my mates did too.
posted on 8/5/17
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 57 seconds ago
comment by Robb : the Martin Samuel of ja606 (U21234)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Robb : the Martin Samuel of ja606 (U21234)
posted 2 minutes ago
What you could manage is not relevant to the point is it?
As for Martial, I don't see him as a #9. He's more a winger imo
---------------------
I was 19, he is 19. He's much fitter than I ever was. Why is it not relevant?
You could be right about Martial, perhaps he is more of a winger. Still an option as a striker though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because the level you played at is completely different to the level he plays at.
jose wants fresh players, not ones playing at the edge of their capabilities against a side who have rested players for the past few weeks
-------------------------------
What does the level matter? We both ran around for 90 minutes and gave everything we had. At 19 I could get up the following day and do it again, no problem. Most of my mates did too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It really isn't the same thing.
posted on 8/5/17
Yep that's a fair comment, melts. The thing is, though, I don't Mourinho wants a really pacy striker for playing on the counter. Which is why, while Rashford has allowed for Mourinho to set up for this, I'm not convinced he's his ideal style of striker.
I think he wants a faster target man type. His history with strikers would suggest this.
posted on 8/5/17
comment by meltonblue (U10617)
posted 1 minute ago
Absolutely Darren, agree with all of that, which is why I expect him to spend big in the summer.
Zlatan I find quite similar to Aguero in that I think they cause as many problems as they solve for their managers. They will both individually always get goals
but it comes at a cost to the overall team in terms of
how both of them want to play.
---------------------------------
Something I have said myself about Zlatan. You can't fault his commitment and performance levels this season - astounding for a 35 year old. But I think that the style of play that Jose plays to suit Zlatan/how he wants to use Zlatan come at the expense of entertainment. I also think that his presence has hampered the progress of Martial and Rashford. We have the players to play a more expansive game, but instead play quite direct.
posted on 8/5/17
Yep I agree with that too. I'm still unsure what the future holds for Rashford tbh. I honestly think he'd be better under a different manager for the next few years.
posted on 8/5/17
Thing is, Elvis, I think we played more attacking football with Zlatan in the team because we had to to play to his strengths - in the first half of the season anyway. Rashford or Martial would have seen a more defensive/counter attacking approach in many of the games we didn't because of their pace.
posted on 8/5/17
comment by Robb : the Martin Samuel of ja606 (U21234)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 57 seconds ago
comment by Robb : the Martin Samuel of ja606 (U21234)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Robb : the Martin Samuel of ja606 (U21234)
posted 2 minutes ago
What you could manage is not relevant to the point is it?
As for Martial, I don't see him as a #9. He's more a winger imo
---------------------
I was 19, he is 19. He's much fitter than I ever was. Why is it not relevant?
You could be right about Martial, perhaps he is more of a winger. Still an option as a striker though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because the level you played at is completely different to the level he plays at.
jose wants fresh players, not ones playing at the edge of their capabilities against a side who have rested players for the past few weeks
-------------------------------
What does the level matter? We both ran around for 90 minutes and gave everything we had. At 19 I could get up the following day and do it again, no problem. Most of my mates did too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It really isn't the same thing.
-----------------
Why not? He won't be any more tired than me when I'd played 90 minutes. And he has much better conditions for recover than I ever had.
posted on 8/5/17
It's the midfield too. I don't think Mkhi or Pogba have settled enough yet to really dictate the change in tempo of the transitions.
posted on 8/5/17
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by Robb : the Martin Samuel of ja606 (U21234)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 57 seconds ago
comment by Robb : the Martin Samuel of ja606 (U21234)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Robb : the Martin Samuel of ja606 (U21234)
posted 2 minutes ago
What you could manage is not relevant to the point is it?
As for Martial, I don't see him as a #9. He's more a winger imo
---------------------
I was 19, he is 19. He's much fitter than I ever was. Why is it not relevant?
You could be right about Martial, perhaps he is more of a winger. Still an option as a striker though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because the level you played at is completely different to the level he plays at.
jose wants fresh players, not ones playing at the edge of their capabilities against a side who have rested players for the past few weeks
-------------------------------
What does the level matter? We both ran around for 90 minutes and gave everything we had. At 19 I could get up the following day and do it again, no problem. Most of my mates did too.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It really isn't the same thing.
-----------------
Why not? He won't be any more tired than me when I'd played 90 minutes. And he has much better conditions for recover than I ever had.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because he's playing against fitter people than you ever did so in the world of small margins it makes sense to not make him play 3 games in 8 days against players who will be playing 2 games in 8 days.
Small margins
posted on 8/5/17
So do I. Developing the flaws of attackers is something I've never been convinced by Mourinho, which is why he likes experienced attackers. His man management to get more consistency/big game performances his attackers are more of his thing than developing their game, in my opinion.
posted on 8/5/17
You look at the success Mourinho has had in the prem, his main strikers have been drogba and costa albeit for only one season. Rashford doesn't seem to fit that mould of a big powerful strong centre forward, he is strong and lightning quick but not built of the ilk of the two mentioned
posted on 8/5/17
melts, yeah and the defenders. They all just hoof it. Apart from Valencia and Blind.
posted on 8/5/17
Exactly. Mourinho would probably be fine for Rashford in five years time.
posted on 8/5/17
Yep noticed that too. It's part of the reason Valencia has stood out so much this year.
posted on 8/5/17
You look at the success Mkhi had at Dortmund, he was in a free flowing Dortmund side full of attacking verve and players making runs ahead of him like Auba and Reus. He was sensational. Today he was alongside Rooney and mata who aren't of that ilk pace wise. To get the best out of Mkhi I think we need a different type of player around him and a different tactical set up.
posted on 8/5/17
I am fairly certain Jose wants Griezmann as well as a striker.
I wonder which one he wants out of Lukaku and Belotti?
posted on 8/5/17
The hope I have for Rashford is that he seems to have a really good attitude and seems to want to improve himself, so unless he's stifled, he could potentially improve of his own accord.
I do think he's improved certain areas of his game as the season has gone on, game time helps because he's young, so playing wide is better than not at all.
He's holding the ball up a lot better now than he was. Because he's only 19 I wonder what his frame will be like when he's fully developed, if he isn't already.
Not sure Mourinho will have the patience with him as a strikee for us to see these developments, though.
posted on 8/5/17
I do think you have the options though as you have quite a diverse squad.
Mkhi (and Mata) feeding runners in Martial and Rashford would be really difficult to play against if set up right.
posted on 8/5/17
comment by Zlatan The King Ibrahimovic (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
Thing is, Elvis, I think we played more attacking football with Zlatan in the team because we had to to play to his strengths - in the first half of the season anyway. Rashford or Martial would have seen a more defensive/counter attacking approach in many of the games we didn't because of their pace.
------------------------------
The football was attacking in that we were getting the ball into his feet and he was very much a part of the approach play. We were keeping the ball on the deck and it was nice to watch. Once the results didn't come we went more direct and Jose started to utilise Zlatan's height more than his ability with the ball at his feet.
posted on 8/5/17
With regards to Mkhi I've been pretty underwhelmed.
I don't really see his as a Mourinho player because Jose doesn't historically set his teams up with a player like him.
I'd prefer to see us with a quality right sided attacker who will give us width, delivery and the ability to beat a man. Too many of our wide attackers want to be playing through the middle.
posted on 8/5/17
Yep I think he'll improve if his own accord Darren.
These next few years are pivotal though. If Mourinho could break the habit and really look to develop him rather than bring in exactly what he wants, it could make the difference between a very good striker and a world class one.
Page 5 of 8
6 | 7 | 8