I disagree Robbing. You said that he has played poorly in DM. That is just completely wrong. The only full season he played there he was our best player. Most of us were up in arms about Jose replacing Herrera in the team with Matic.
He had two season at the start of his United career where he had quite a few injuries, which has curtailed the number of starts he he has made. In his last 2 seasons it was like Jose was just trying to make a point/being stubborn about Matic. There were a few more injuries thrown in there, but the main reason he couldn't get in the team was because Jose had bought Matic and couldn't admit his mistake.
In the one season that he didn't have any serious obstacles in his way he was our best player.
I get what you're saying Elvis. I still think he ain't very good. Kash made a good point with Lucas I feel. I doubt anyone regards AH as a DM. At all. In fact as a 6 I'd have thought Henderson has done better there but there we go.
If you'd spoken in these reasonable terms from the beginning (and several of us have noted you're quite capable of debating well), the thread wouldn't have turned out like that. I basically agree with your closing statement. Most people would assume he will be a squad player at PSG (which has a far better squad and midfield than ours).
As for your picture of coming here for a reasonable, unprovocative contribution to the debate, I was feeling guilty that I might have been unfair to you, so I had a quick look at the start of this thread. In your first five contributions, this is what you said:
1) Herrera is easily the most overrated Utd player of modern times. Doesnt excel at anything at all.
2) Yeah I'll bite because he's clearly not. In fact slating Hendetson is a bit 2015 now mate. He is the Spanish Joe Allen though.
3) We'll never agree on that and given that I know more about football you'll be better off accepting my opinion.
5) [Henderson has]
Better range of passing
Manipulate a ball
Better striker of the ball
Better in the tackle
More versatile
Better engine
...all in all, I'm not sure I was so wrong to suggest you claimed Henderson was better in all departments. And it's hard to look at that and claim you were expecting to have a nuanced discussion and surprised to ruffle any feathers. And obviously, you did dig in very defensively when people took issue with the factual weaknesses of your assertions.
We're not Satan. Anecdotally, I gather that people get barred from the Liverpool board for even more benign comments than yours.
all in all, I'm not sure I was so wrong to suggest you claimed Henderson was better in all departments.
==========
Well you are because you've missed the parts in which I listed Herrera was better. Not sure how you've missed that considering you went through it all, unless you did it on purpose.
As for my statements... and what.
What does Herrera excel at? Which parts of his skill set are unlike Joe Allen? These are not rhetorical questions by the way. Again I wouldn't mind but one set of fans looks sensitive and I'm not sure it's on my side looking at the thread.
As for the better football knowledge I think it would be pertinent to post who that was written to which was Manc Python ffs. Him being clueless isn't up for debate imo.
I have no control over who gets banned from boards but as you referenced earlier getting territorial over intangible space is a big deal for some.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
I like the Utd board and am not bemoaning anything per se bar the massive amounts of hypocrisy from the usual suspects. We have also seen yet more victim tags which is low rent but there we go.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Dave NotSo (U11711)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Robbing_Hoody - as a rule I don't trust a... (U6374)
posted 6 minutes ago
.
I have no control over who gets banned from boards but as you referenced earlier getting territorial over intangible space is a big deal for some.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like Redin and his "CL board" article so Manc and Arsenal are not allowed
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I have no control over that either so a bit similar I guess.
I disagree Robbing. You said that he has played poorly in DM. That is just completely wrong. The only full season he played there he was our best player. Most of us were up in arms about Jose replacing Herrera in the team with Matic.
................
This. No argument from any United fan other than that prat Iamme.
comment by Dave NotSo (U11711)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Robbing_Hoody - as a rule I don't trust a... (U6374)
posted 6 minutes ago
.
I have no control over who gets banned from boards but as you referenced earlier getting territorial over intangible space is a big deal for some.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like Redin and his "CL board" article so Manc and Arsenal are not allowed
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who said not allowed?
It's on the CL board, so you can find articles that are relevant to man utd standing currently.
Not my problem that mancs find it hard to know their current place.
When you actually have a look at the stats on the PL website, there is little between the two players. They both score and assists at around the same rate. Hendo has a slightly better tackle success rate and wins more in the air, but Herrera gets a lot more blocks in, makes more interceptions, gets through more tackles and wins more 50/50s. Overall I'd say Hendo edges it in an attacking sense, but Herrera is better defensively.
If you'd spoken in these reasonable terms from the beginning (and several of us have noted you're quite capable of debating well)
..................
And he really is. But every now and then he gets dragged down to the level of posters like TOOR.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Maybe I missed something, Robbing. I simply went for the first five and stopped there. It wasn't in bad faith.
"I have no control over who gets banned from boards but as you referenced earlier getting territorial over intangible space is a big deal for some."
- Agreed, but you will also be aware of the tribal dynamics that football brings out in us, so surely you weren't all that surprised when you got a reaction when you panned one of our players in fairly blunt terms and then disputed facts that were brought out in his defence when our grasp of his record was stronger than yours. You could have conceded a bit of ground there without abandoning your basic point.
"As for the better football knowledge I think it would be pertinent to post who that was written to which was Manc Python ffs."
- yeah, fair enough, I concede that point in full!
comment by Dave NotSo (U11711)
posted 5 minutes ago
Even other Pool supporters were pointing out how wound up you were.
.................
Was that the Ramos thread?
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
"As for the better football knowledge I think it would be pertinent to post who that was written to which was Manc Python ffs."
- yeah, fair enough, I concede that point in full!
------------------------
WTF? Defend your fellow United supporter!
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
The very next article he writes is calling out Pidier P after the CL, wondering where he is. Turns out Pidier had been banned from the Pool board for years.
................
I saw that one.
It was always going to come back and bite Pidier one day.
It really was incredible how much traction he got out of four words.
comment by Robbing_Hoody - as a rule I don't trust a man who doesn't drink but I do trust James Milner (U6374)
posted 50 minutes ago
I get what you're saying Elvis. I still think he ain't very good. Kash made a good point with Lucas I feel. I doubt anyone regards AH as a DM. At all. In fact as a 6 I'd have thought Henderson has done better there but there we go.
--------------------------
He is slightly better in the tackle and wins quite a bit more in the air. For the rest, Herrera is better. In some instances by quite some way.
Yep we've been through it. I think Herrera is better on the half turn and therefore receiving it in tight spaces and also finishing in the box (and the timing of those runs).
I've seen nothing in terms of passing or the range of it or manipulating it and as said you only have to compare their goals and assists to see this really.
Henderson is a managers dream and I firmlly believe he'd start in every side in the Prem as he does for us bar City and even then he'd get games.
From what I have seen, I still prefer Herrera over Henderson. One has to look at his time at both United and Bilbao to see his passing range. I'd say his short passing is better, where Henderson probably better at long passing. He played a more advance position at Bilbao than he has at United. He was good and finding balls to their attackers.
If Henderson was at United, we'd still be crying out for better midfield to compete at the top. Take Herrera out and put Henderson in, our midfield doesn't improve. Maybe replacing him Matic might improve it but not enough to compete at the top.
There is a reason why England fail to beat any half decent side. The midfield is very weak and the defence overrated.
Sign in if you want to comment
Ander Herrera
Page 12 of 12
8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12
posted on 10/6/19
I disagree Robbing. You said that he has played poorly in DM. That is just completely wrong. The only full season he played there he was our best player. Most of us were up in arms about Jose replacing Herrera in the team with Matic.
He had two season at the start of his United career where he had quite a few injuries, which has curtailed the number of starts he he has made. In his last 2 seasons it was like Jose was just trying to make a point/being stubborn about Matic. There were a few more injuries thrown in there, but the main reason he couldn't get in the team was because Jose had bought Matic and couldn't admit his mistake.
In the one season that he didn't have any serious obstacles in his way he was our best player.
posted on 10/6/19
I get what you're saying Elvis. I still think he ain't very good. Kash made a good point with Lucas I feel. I doubt anyone regards AH as a DM. At all. In fact as a 6 I'd have thought Henderson has done better there but there we go.
posted on 10/6/19
If you'd spoken in these reasonable terms from the beginning (and several of us have noted you're quite capable of debating well), the thread wouldn't have turned out like that. I basically agree with your closing statement. Most people would assume he will be a squad player at PSG (which has a far better squad and midfield than ours).
As for your picture of coming here for a reasonable, unprovocative contribution to the debate, I was feeling guilty that I might have been unfair to you, so I had a quick look at the start of this thread. In your first five contributions, this is what you said:
1) Herrera is easily the most overrated Utd player of modern times. Doesnt excel at anything at all.
2) Yeah I'll bite because he's clearly not. In fact slating Hendetson is a bit 2015 now mate. He is the Spanish Joe Allen though.
3) We'll never agree on that and given that I know more about football you'll be better off accepting my opinion.
5) [Henderson has]
Better range of passing
Manipulate a ball
Better striker of the ball
Better in the tackle
More versatile
Better engine
...all in all, I'm not sure I was so wrong to suggest you claimed Henderson was better in all departments. And it's hard to look at that and claim you were expecting to have a nuanced discussion and surprised to ruffle any feathers. And obviously, you did dig in very defensively when people took issue with the factual weaknesses of your assertions.
We're not Satan. Anecdotally, I gather that people get barred from the Liverpool board for even more benign comments than yours.
posted on 10/6/19
all in all, I'm not sure I was so wrong to suggest you claimed Henderson was better in all departments.
==========
Well you are because you've missed the parts in which I listed Herrera was better. Not sure how you've missed that considering you went through it all, unless you did it on purpose.
As for my statements... and what.
What does Herrera excel at? Which parts of his skill set are unlike Joe Allen? These are not rhetorical questions by the way. Again I wouldn't mind but one set of fans looks sensitive and I'm not sure it's on my side looking at the thread.
As for the better football knowledge I think it would be pertinent to post who that was written to which was Manc Python ffs. Him being clueless isn't up for debate imo.
I have no control over who gets banned from boards but as you referenced earlier getting territorial over intangible space is a big deal for some.
posted on 10/6/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 10/6/19
I like the Utd board and am not bemoaning anything per se bar the massive amounts of hypocrisy from the usual suspects. We have also seen yet more victim tags which is low rent but there we go.
posted on 10/6/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 10/6/19
comment by Dave NotSo (U11711)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Robbing_Hoody - as a rule I don't trust a... (U6374)
posted 6 minutes ago
.
I have no control over who gets banned from boards but as you referenced earlier getting territorial over intangible space is a big deal for some.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like Redin and his "CL board" article so Manc and Arsenal are not allowed
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I have no control over that either so a bit similar I guess.
posted on 10/6/19
I disagree Robbing. You said that he has played poorly in DM. That is just completely wrong. The only full season he played there he was our best player. Most of us were up in arms about Jose replacing Herrera in the team with Matic.
................
This. No argument from any United fan other than that prat Iamme.
posted on 10/6/19
comment by Dave NotSo (U11711)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Robbing_Hoody - as a rule I don't trust a... (U6374)
posted 6 minutes ago
.
I have no control over who gets banned from boards but as you referenced earlier getting territorial over intangible space is a big deal for some.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like Redin and his "CL board" article so Manc and Arsenal are not allowed
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who said not allowed?
It's on the CL board, so you can find articles that are relevant to man utd standing currently.
Not my problem that mancs find it hard to know their current place.
posted on 10/6/19
When you actually have a look at the stats on the PL website, there is little between the two players. They both score and assists at around the same rate. Hendo has a slightly better tackle success rate and wins more in the air, but Herrera gets a lot more blocks in, makes more interceptions, gets through more tackles and wins more 50/50s. Overall I'd say Hendo edges it in an attacking sense, but Herrera is better defensively.
posted on 10/6/19
If you'd spoken in these reasonable terms from the beginning (and several of us have noted you're quite capable of debating well)
..................
And he really is. But every now and then he gets dragged down to the level of posters like TOOR.
posted on 10/6/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 10/6/19
Maybe I missed something, Robbing. I simply went for the first five and stopped there. It wasn't in bad faith.
"I have no control over who gets banned from boards but as you referenced earlier getting territorial over intangible space is a big deal for some."
- Agreed, but you will also be aware of the tribal dynamics that football brings out in us, so surely you weren't all that surprised when you got a reaction when you panned one of our players in fairly blunt terms and then disputed facts that were brought out in his defence when our grasp of his record was stronger than yours. You could have conceded a bit of ground there without abandoning your basic point.
"As for the better football knowledge I think it would be pertinent to post who that was written to which was Manc Python ffs."
- yeah, fair enough, I concede that point in full!
posted on 10/6/19
comment by Dave NotSo (U11711)
posted 5 minutes ago
Even other Pool supporters were pointing out how wound up you were.
.................
Was that the Ramos thread?
posted on 10/6/19
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
"As for the better football knowledge I think it would be pertinent to post who that was written to which was Manc Python ffs."
- yeah, fair enough, I concede that point in full!
------------------------
WTF? Defend your fellow United supporter!
posted on 10/6/19
Ahhh this is nice.
posted on 10/6/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 10/6/19
The very next article he writes is calling out Pidier P after the CL, wondering where he is. Turns out Pidier had been banned from the Pool board for years.
................
I saw that one.
It was always going to come back and bite Pidier one day.
It really was incredible how much traction he got out of four words.
posted on 10/6/19
comment by Robbing_Hoody - as a rule I don't trust a man who doesn't drink but I do trust James Milner (U6374)
posted 50 minutes ago
I get what you're saying Elvis. I still think he ain't very good. Kash made a good point with Lucas I feel. I doubt anyone regards AH as a DM. At all. In fact as a 6 I'd have thought Henderson has done better there but there we go.
--------------------------
He is slightly better in the tackle and wins quite a bit more in the air. For the rest, Herrera is better. In some instances by quite some way.
posted on 10/6/19
Yep we've been through it. I think Herrera is better on the half turn and therefore receiving it in tight spaces and also finishing in the box (and the timing of those runs).
I've seen nothing in terms of passing or the range of it or manipulating it and as said you only have to compare their goals and assists to see this really.
Henderson is a managers dream and I firmlly believe he'd start in every side in the Prem as he does for us bar City and even then he'd get games.
posted on 11/6/19
From what I have seen, I still prefer Herrera over Henderson. One has to look at his time at both United and Bilbao to see his passing range. I'd say his short passing is better, where Henderson probably better at long passing. He played a more advance position at Bilbao than he has at United. He was good and finding balls to their attackers.
If Henderson was at United, we'd still be crying out for better midfield to compete at the top. Take Herrera out and put Henderson in, our midfield doesn't improve. Maybe replacing him Matic might improve it but not enough to compete at the top.
There is a reason why England fail to beat any half decent side. The midfield is very weak and the defence overrated.
Page 12 of 12
8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12