Guarenteed if Salah or Mane had Messi’s numbers they are the ones that would be being talked about as POTY
I think Van Dijk has been excellent, but he's a little overrated. He's no better than Alderweireld was a couple of years ago, or Godin. He's just at this moment the standout CB in the world, but that says more about other defenders than it does about his own quality, but he is a top CB.
Any defender who achieved what VVD has in the last year or so would also be in the conversation though, and rightfully so.
So I think Van Dijk makes more of a difference to Liverpool than someone like Godin made to Atletico because Liverpool were a mess defensively before Van Dijk and are solid now.
However I don't think Van Dijk is a better defender than Godin was at his peak. So I think Van Dijk looks better than he actually is because of that.
comment by Pride of the North (U6803)
posted 13 minutes ago
Guarenteed if Salah or Mane had Messi’s numbers they are the ones that would be being talked about as POTY
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well yeah, obviously
comment by Klopptimus Prime - Die Unerträglichen (U1282)
posted 24 minutes ago
Any defender who achieved what VVD has in the last year or so would also be in the conversation though, and rightfully so.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh yeah, there’s no problem with him being in the conversation. But he just wasn’t better than Messi, whatever way you look at it.
Loads of journalists and coaches will all vote and make their subjective choice.
Oh yeah, there’s no problem with him being in the conversation. But he just wasn’t better than Messi, whatever way you look at it.
======
He's the Messi of defence.
How do you judge anyway?
What would a defender have to do to be better than Messi?
Not concede a goal all season?
Genuine question.
comment by Klopptimus Prime - Die Unerträglichen (U1282)
posted 6 minutes ago
Oh yeah, there’s no problem with him being in the conversation. But he just wasn’t better than Messi, whatever way you look at it.
======
He's the Messi of defence.
How do you judge anyway?
What would a defender have to do to be better than Messi?
Not concede a goal all season?
Genuine question.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Be the best player on the pitch in nearly every game he plays.
I think it's fair to say that these two are the only serious contenders, and either will be a fair winner.
I'd go for Messi, but not much in it.
comment by Klopptimus Prime - Die Unerträglichen (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 52 minutes ago
Oh yeah, there’s no problem with him being in the conversation. But he just wasn’t better than Messi, whatever way you look at it.
======
He's the Messi of defence.
How do you judge anyway?
What would a defender have to do to be better than Messi?
Not concede a goal all season?
Genuine question.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Play as well as he has and hope Messi has an off year!
As long as Messi is scoring 50 goals in a season, he wins.
Not only is VVD excellent at defending himself, but he makes every other defender around him look better. Had an excellent partnership with Gomez during the first half of the season up until he was injured, both complemented each other very well. Matip's game has improved massively alongside him and he looks a lot more composed at CB, a lot more physical as well as not looking as error prone. The same can be said when Lovren fills in, looks a lot more confident and less error prone alongside VVD. I'm sure improved performances for the CB partner to VVD will be because of competition, but my point still stands.
However, as has been said, how can you not give the award to somebody who has hit 50 goals and with it being Messi.
Be interesting to see liverpools attacks against compared to other top teams, because of the way liverpool play and kill people at speed with their front three a lot of the teams they play dont even get the chance to attack the pool back line.
Plus they play with 3 industrial defensive players in midfield a lot of games.
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 14 minutes ago
Be interesting to see liverpools attacks against compared to other top teams, because of the way liverpool play and kill people at speed with their front three a lot of the teams they play dont even get the chance to attack the pool back line.
Plus they play with 3 industrial defensive players in midfield a lot of games.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I don't think we play with 3 "industrial defensive players" in midfield. When Milner and Henderson play alongside Fabinho, which is few and fair between, you could call it that but mostly we try to play with Fabinho as the defensive player, Henderson and Wijnaldum getting on the ball and supplying the front three. Long run I'd hope that Keita comes in, or even Ox.
One thing I see every game is VVD isolates due to our attacking style and full backs pushing up and VVD makes defending, even then, look effortless whereas before it was always a panic. He's such a calm influence.
It's difficult not to give 50 goal attackers the award, which is why they often get it but if there's one time when a defender gets it, it's now with VVD.
La liga is a poor standard. Messi wouldnt get near those figures in the PL. Vvd is playing in the toughest league and won CL. For me its a no brainer.
comment by Rouge (U19907)
posted 2 hours, 8 minutes ago
La liga is a poor standard. Messi wouldnt get near those figures in the PL. Vvd is playing in the toughest league and won CL. For me its a no brainer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Its a good question IMO.
Would Messi be hitting 50 goals a season in the Prem?
comment by Klopptimus Prime - Die Unerträglichen (U1282)
posted 7 minutes ago
Its a good question IMO.
Would Messi be hitting 50 goals a season in the Prem?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably.
I doubt it. 50 goals in the prem? You never know though.
Not sure the climate would be a joy to him and he'd be getting hacked down every game. His fitness would probably be affected too with the pace and schedule bit yeah, maybe.
comment by Klopptimus Prime - Die Unerträglichen (U1282)
posted 13 minutes ago
I doubt it. 50 goals in the prem? You never know though.
Not sure the climate would be a joy to him and he'd be getting hacked down every game. His fitness would probably be affected too with the pace and schedule bit yeah, maybe.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Given that he’s a level above anyone on the league, and has had no difficulty scoring against England’s best teams, the likes of Burnley would be easy for him. ,
comment by Pride of the North (U6803)
posted 18 hours, 40 minutes ago
comment by Klopptimus Prime - Die Unerträglichen (U1282)
posted 6 minutes ago
Oh yeah, there’s no problem with him being in the conversation. But he just wasn’t better than Messi, whatever way you look at it.
======
He's the Messi of defence.
How do you judge anyway?
What would a defender have to do to be better than Messi?
Not concede a goal all season?
Genuine question.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Be the best player on the pitch in nearly every game he plays.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He was for the most part of the season - hence why he was Player of the Year.
I’ve never known a defender to player 50 odd games and never be taken on.
It’s a miraculous stat - especially when you consider the calibre of his opponents .. Hazard, Aguero, Mbappe, Neymar, Lewandoski, Messi, Suarez etc.
To top off a season with that statistic with a European Cup is extraordinary - and should see him pick up the Ballon D’orr.
Lastly, Messi came out second best in the two encounters with each other.
Given that he’s a level above anyone on the league, and has had no difficulty scoring against England’s best teams, the likes of Burnley would be easy for him.
======
The Champions League isn't the same as the league though. For instance, CL are one off games where teams go for it. In the league Burnley would have 11 men behind the ball, which they don't really do in Spain, and two players on Messi's ar5e. Burnley would hope for a point.
Messi has scored 13 goals in 14 games at the Nou Camp against English teams, but just seven goals in 14 away games on English turf - eight in 15 if you include the 2011 final at Wembley.
This suggests his goal return would reduce significantly in England but he'd still be the man.
comment by Klopptimus Prime - Die Unerträglichen (U1282)
posted 3 hours, 47 minutes ago
I doubt it. 50 goals in the prem? You never know though.
Not sure the climate would be a joy to him and he'd be getting hacked down every game. His fitness would probably be affected too with the pace and schedule bit yeah, maybe.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s a strange question. Messi has hit 50 goals in law liga once. The rest has been about 30 odd. Suarez hit 31 in 33 one year and Messi is a better player than him. If u asked would Messi score 35 in the prem I’d say yes if salah could
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 3 hours, 21 minutes ago
I’ve never known a defender to player 50 odd games and never be taken on.
It’s a miraculous stat - especially when you consider the calibre of his opponents .. Hazard, Aguero, Mbappe, Neymar, Lewandoski, Messi, Suarez etc.
To top off a season with that statistic with a European Cup is extraordinary - and should see him pick up the Ballon D’orr.
Lastly, Messi came out second best in the two encounters with each other.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Myth stat apparently he did but it doesn’t take into account fouls and other differentials.
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VVD for Ballon d'or?
Page 6 of 13
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posted on 7/9/19
Guarenteed if Salah or Mane had Messi’s numbers they are the ones that would be being talked about as POTY
posted on 7/9/19
I think Van Dijk has been excellent, but he's a little overrated. He's no better than Alderweireld was a couple of years ago, or Godin. He's just at this moment the standout CB in the world, but that says more about other defenders than it does about his own quality, but he is a top CB.
posted on 7/9/19
Any defender who achieved what VVD has in the last year or so would also be in the conversation though, and rightfully so.
posted on 7/9/19
So I think Van Dijk makes more of a difference to Liverpool than someone like Godin made to Atletico because Liverpool were a mess defensively before Van Dijk and are solid now.
However I don't think Van Dijk is a better defender than Godin was at his peak. So I think Van Dijk looks better than he actually is because of that.
posted on 7/9/19
comment by Pride of the North (U6803)
posted 13 minutes ago
Guarenteed if Salah or Mane had Messi’s numbers they are the ones that would be being talked about as POTY
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well yeah, obviously
posted on 7/9/19
comment by Klopptimus Prime - Die Unerträglichen (U1282)
posted 24 minutes ago
Any defender who achieved what VVD has in the last year or so would also be in the conversation though, and rightfully so.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh yeah, there’s no problem with him being in the conversation. But he just wasn’t better than Messi, whatever way you look at it.
posted on 7/9/19
Loads of journalists and coaches will all vote and make their subjective choice.
posted on 7/9/19
Oh yeah, there’s no problem with him being in the conversation. But he just wasn’t better than Messi, whatever way you look at it.
======
He's the Messi of defence.
How do you judge anyway?
What would a defender have to do to be better than Messi?
Not concede a goal all season?
Genuine question.
posted on 7/9/19
comment by Klopptimus Prime - Die Unerträglichen (U1282)
posted 6 minutes ago
Oh yeah, there’s no problem with him being in the conversation. But he just wasn’t better than Messi, whatever way you look at it.
======
He's the Messi of defence.
How do you judge anyway?
What would a defender have to do to be better than Messi?
Not concede a goal all season?
Genuine question.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Be the best player on the pitch in nearly every game he plays.
posted on 7/9/19
I think it's fair to say that these two are the only serious contenders, and either will be a fair winner.
I'd go for Messi, but not much in it.
posted on 7/9/19
comment by Klopptimus Prime - Die Unerträglichen (U1282)
posted 1 hour, 52 minutes ago
Oh yeah, there’s no problem with him being in the conversation. But he just wasn’t better than Messi, whatever way you look at it.
======
He's the Messi of defence.
How do you judge anyway?
What would a defender have to do to be better than Messi?
Not concede a goal all season?
Genuine question.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Play as well as he has and hope Messi has an off year!
As long as Messi is scoring 50 goals in a season, he wins.
posted on 7/9/19
Not only is VVD excellent at defending himself, but he makes every other defender around him look better. Had an excellent partnership with Gomez during the first half of the season up until he was injured, both complemented each other very well. Matip's game has improved massively alongside him and he looks a lot more composed at CB, a lot more physical as well as not looking as error prone. The same can be said when Lovren fills in, looks a lot more confident and less error prone alongside VVD. I'm sure improved performances for the CB partner to VVD will be because of competition, but my point still stands.
However, as has been said, how can you not give the award to somebody who has hit 50 goals and with it being Messi.
posted on 8/9/19
Be interesting to see liverpools attacks against compared to other top teams, because of the way liverpool play and kill people at speed with their front three a lot of the teams they play dont even get the chance to attack the pool back line.
Plus they play with 3 industrial defensive players in midfield a lot of games.
posted on 8/9/19
comment by Nickasaurus (U9257)
posted 14 minutes ago
Be interesting to see liverpools attacks against compared to other top teams, because of the way liverpool play and kill people at speed with their front three a lot of the teams they play dont even get the chance to attack the pool back line.
Plus they play with 3 industrial defensive players in midfield a lot of games.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah I don't think we play with 3 "industrial defensive players" in midfield. When Milner and Henderson play alongside Fabinho, which is few and fair between, you could call it that but mostly we try to play with Fabinho as the defensive player, Henderson and Wijnaldum getting on the ball and supplying the front three. Long run I'd hope that Keita comes in, or even Ox.
One thing I see every game is VVD isolates due to our attacking style and full backs pushing up and VVD makes defending, even then, look effortless whereas before it was always a panic. He's such a calm influence.
It's difficult not to give 50 goal attackers the award, which is why they often get it but if there's one time when a defender gets it, it's now with VVD.
posted on 8/9/19
La liga is a poor standard. Messi wouldnt get near those figures in the PL. Vvd is playing in the toughest league and won CL. For me its a no brainer.
posted on 8/9/19
comment by Rouge (U19907)
posted 2 hours, 8 minutes ago
La liga is a poor standard. Messi wouldnt get near those figures in the PL. Vvd is playing in the toughest league and won CL. For me its a no brainer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 8/9/19
Its a good question IMO.
Would Messi be hitting 50 goals a season in the Prem?
posted on 8/9/19
comment by Klopptimus Prime - Die Unerträglichen (U1282)
posted 7 minutes ago
Its a good question IMO.
Would Messi be hitting 50 goals a season in the Prem?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Probably.
posted on 8/9/19
I doubt it. 50 goals in the prem? You never know though.
Not sure the climate would be a joy to him and he'd be getting hacked down every game. His fitness would probably be affected too with the pace and schedule bit yeah, maybe.
posted on 8/9/19
comment by Klopptimus Prime - Die Unerträglichen (U1282)
posted 13 minutes ago
I doubt it. 50 goals in the prem? You never know though.
Not sure the climate would be a joy to him and he'd be getting hacked down every game. His fitness would probably be affected too with the pace and schedule bit yeah, maybe.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Given that he’s a level above anyone on the league, and has had no difficulty scoring against England’s best teams, the likes of Burnley would be easy for him. ,
posted on 8/9/19
comment by Pride of the North (U6803)
posted 18 hours, 40 minutes ago
comment by Klopptimus Prime - Die Unerträglichen (U1282)
posted 6 minutes ago
Oh yeah, there’s no problem with him being in the conversation. But he just wasn’t better than Messi, whatever way you look at it.
======
He's the Messi of defence.
How do you judge anyway?
What would a defender have to do to be better than Messi?
Not concede a goal all season?
Genuine question.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Be the best player on the pitch in nearly every game he plays.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He was for the most part of the season - hence why he was Player of the Year.
posted on 8/9/19
I’ve never known a defender to player 50 odd games and never be taken on.
It’s a miraculous stat - especially when you consider the calibre of his opponents .. Hazard, Aguero, Mbappe, Neymar, Lewandoski, Messi, Suarez etc.
To top off a season with that statistic with a European Cup is extraordinary - and should see him pick up the Ballon D’orr.
Lastly, Messi came out second best in the two encounters with each other.
posted on 8/9/19
Given that he’s a level above anyone on the league, and has had no difficulty scoring against England’s best teams, the likes of Burnley would be easy for him.
======
The Champions League isn't the same as the league though. For instance, CL are one off games where teams go for it. In the league Burnley would have 11 men behind the ball, which they don't really do in Spain, and two players on Messi's ar5e. Burnley would hope for a point.
Messi has scored 13 goals in 14 games at the Nou Camp against English teams, but just seven goals in 14 away games on English turf - eight in 15 if you include the 2011 final at Wembley.
This suggests his goal return would reduce significantly in England but he'd still be the man.
posted on 8/9/19
comment by Klopptimus Prime - Die Unerträglichen (U1282)
posted 3 hours, 47 minutes ago
I doubt it. 50 goals in the prem? You never know though.
Not sure the climate would be a joy to him and he'd be getting hacked down every game. His fitness would probably be affected too with the pace and schedule bit yeah, maybe.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s a strange question. Messi has hit 50 goals in law liga once. The rest has been about 30 odd. Suarez hit 31 in 33 one year and Messi is a better player than him. If u asked would Messi score 35 in the prem I’d say yes if salah could
posted on 8/9/19
comment by Metro.⚽️ (U6770)
posted 3 hours, 21 minutes ago
I’ve never known a defender to player 50 odd games and never be taken on.
It’s a miraculous stat - especially when you consider the calibre of his opponents .. Hazard, Aguero, Mbappe, Neymar, Lewandoski, Messi, Suarez etc.
To top off a season with that statistic with a European Cup is extraordinary - and should see him pick up the Ballon D’orr.
Lastly, Messi came out second best in the two encounters with each other.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Myth stat apparently he did but it doesn’t take into account fouls and other differentials.
Page 6 of 13
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