comment by RedLeyland (U3775)
posted 1 minute ago
Did we vote for the statues to be removed? if the other side decide to fire bomb abortion clinics for example , is that ok?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What a stupid comparison
Is it? Right wing conservatives (usually opposed to BLM) believe abortion is the same as a murdering a baby and the clinics bolstered by feminism are systematicly committing a holocaust. They are rabidly passionate about their position presenting evidence about the pain ,suffering and humanity of aborted fetuses. So if they decide to fire bomb an empty abortion clinic what's the difference between that and their opponents the BLM taking it upon themselves to pull down statues. Who decided they could do that?
They are both wrong, we are governed by law and we live in a democracy not ruled by the mob. It is good news that the people who tore down the Colston statue will be prosecuted by the authorities
But back to the original points, he wasn't and isn't celebrated for his involvement in slavery.
++
Under the dictionary definition of 'celebrated', he is my friend and well you know it. Stop apologising for it/him... and just think for yourself.
The BBC is a reliable source of news. 'Academically' or not. (whatever you mean by that in this context). I know some of you on the right don't like BBC these days , but let's face it, you don't like much in mainstream politics these days).
And the ODofNB also suggests that much of Colston's wealth was made by trading black people, which you seem to be in constant denial of.... So we spend days arguing the toss about this point of detail which has deflected from my original post about the outrageous Burnley plane, hired by Tommy Robinson supporters with its provocative message countering the current BLM campaign... to the point where I have now lost interest in debating with you as it will never end with your Strawman agenda and you will always want the last word on it.
So your job is done. And I'm out.
comment by RB&W (U21434)
posted 5 minutes ago
But back to the original points, he wasn't and isn't celebrated for his involvement in slavery.
++
Under the dictionary definition of 'celebrated', he is my friend and well you know it. Stop apologising for it/him... and just think for yourself.
The BBC is a reliable source of news. 'Academically' or not. (whatever you mean by that in this context). I know some of you on the right don't like BBC these days , but let's face it, you don't like much in mainstream politics these days).
And the ODofNB also suggests that much of Colston's wealth was made by trading black people, which you seem to be in constant denial of.... So we spend days arguing the toss about this point of detail which has deflected from my original post about the outrageous Burnley plane, hired by Tommy Robinson supporters with its provocative message countering the current BLM campaign... to the point where I have now lost interest in debating with you as it will never end with your Strawman agenda and you will always want the last word on it.
So your job is done. And I'm out.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Today I've learnt that people exist who actually think that "Some of the millions Colston didn't derive from buying and selling black people (and murdering thousands of them in the process)" means he deserves to be preserved in our historical memory as a noteworthy figure, who did some good and bad things.
Let's be clear, the reason he had a statue was because he was a rich and powerful dude, and the rich and powerful have tended to get statues over the years, and history (particularly the history of our architecture and our public spaces) has tended to be written to glorify them. In my home town many of the streets bear the names of wealthy Victorians that mean nothing to anyone. I'm sure many of them were perfectly nice. But they have no historical meaning to the people who walk along those streets, except for the sense that these are the names we've been calling these streets for decades.
The Colston statue, similarly, stood there for centuries, and people passed by not thinking about history, most not knowing who he was or what he did, but vaguely knowing he was rich or powerful enough long ago to have got himself a statue. The existence of the statue was really a mark of forgetfulness. By contrast, the destruction of that statue was a moment of real historical remembrance, and an accurate recollection of the most historical significant activity of Colston's life.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 22 minutes ago
Today I've learnt that people exist who actually think that "Some of the millions Colston didn't derive from buying and selling black people (and murdering thousands of them in the process)" means he deserves to be preserved in our historical memory as a noteworthy figure, who did some good and bad things.
Let's be clear, the reason he had a statue was because he was a rich and powerful dude, and the rich and powerful have tended to get statues over the years, and history (particularly the history of our architecture and our public spaces) has tended to be written to glorify them. In my home town many of the streets bear the names of wealthy Victorians that mean nothing to anyone. I'm sure many of them were perfectly nice. But they have no historical meaning to the people who walk along those streets, except for the sense that these are the names we've been calling these streets for decades.
The Colston statue, similarly, stood there for centuries, and people passed by not thinking about history, most not knowing who he was or what he did, but vaguely knowing he was rich or powerful enough long ago to have got himself a statue. The existence of the statue was really a mark of forgetfulness. By contrast, the destruction of that statue was a moment of real historical remembrance, and an accurate recollection of the most historical significant activity of Colston's life.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. So many people saying it was an attack on history by removing the statue but by doing it at a time when more people are wisening up to the truth of the past it was actually an event that made history.
History doesn’t always need to be in the far past. We can make history today.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Sigh.
The statue clearly was a celebration of slavery, the people of Bristol had been trying to get it taken down for years, but were ignored so they took matters into their own hands.
Move on.
If statues are there to commemorate history and not the person, why aren't there loads more Hitler statues? He was, after all, one of the key figures of WW2.
People saying statues are there first and foremost to remind us of our history and not to commemorate and celebrate the person they are dedicated to are simply trying to deflect. They are either being intentionally obtuse, are completely thick, or are right now probably liking the idea of statues to Hitler.
comment by Automatic For The People #BLM (U21889)
posted 33 minutes ago
Sigh.
The statue clearly was a celebration of slavery, the people of Bristol had been trying to get it taken down for years, but were ignored so they took matters into their own hands.
Move on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many people , how do you know, are you the mayor of Bristol ?
comment by Automatic For The People #BLM (U21889)
posted 16 hours, 56 minutes ago
It’s called voter suppression, very popular in the states.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Enlighten me, if ID can be obtained free of charge what is the problem? I can't help noticing the people who are against the rule are the people who benefit most from electoral fraud. E.g. Labour.
Not read much from you on the Brixton incident Auto, have you an opinion?
comment by RedLeyland (U3775)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People #BLM (U21889)
posted 33 minutes ago
Sigh.
The statue clearly was a celebration of slavery, the people of Bristol had been trying to get it taken down for years, but were ignored so they took matters into their own hands.
Move on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many people , how do you know, are you the mayor of Bristol ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s gone and rightly so.
Can't wait for the Mandela statue to be pulled down, the ANC killed a good few black people.
comment by clapfreesince2003 (U22207)
posted 12 minutes ago
Can't wait for the Mandela statue to be pulled down, the ANC killed a good few black people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s just a statue. Meaningless really
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 1 hour, 30 minutes ago
comment by clapfreesince2003 (U22207)
posted 12 minutes ago
Can't wait for the Mandela statue to be pulled down, the ANC killed a good few black people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s just a statue. Meaningless really
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's true, I think their after the Gandhi statue next, had a few negative views about Africans apparently
comment by RedLeyland (U3775)
posted 2 hours, 26 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People #BLM (U21889)
posted 33 minutes ago
Sigh.
The statue clearly was a celebration of slavery, the people of Bristol had been trying to get it taken down for years, but were ignored so they took matters into their own hands.
Move on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many people , how do you know, are you the mayor of Bristol ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
classic auto lying, it was really for his philanthropy
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 7 hours, 41 minutes ago
If statues are there to commemorate history and not the person, why aren't there loads more Hitler statues? He was, after all, one of the key figures of WW2.
People saying statues are there first and foremost to remind us of our history and not to commemorate and celebrate the person they are dedicated to are simply trying to deflect. They are either being intentionally obtuse, are completely thick, or are right now probably liking the idea of statues to Hitler.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
you believe the people defending the statue of Winston Churchill want to erect statues of Hitler, very logical 🤔
That’s not what he said though, was it?
comment by RedLeyland (U3775)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 7 hours, 41 minutes ago
If statues are there to commemorate history and not the person, why aren't there loads more Hitler statues? He was, after all, one of the key figures of WW2.
People saying statues are there first and foremost to remind us of our history and not to commemorate and celebrate the person they are dedicated to are simply trying to deflect. They are either being intentionally obtuse, are completely thick, or are right now probably liking the idea of statues to Hitler.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
you believe the people defending the statue of Winston Churchill want to erect statues of Hitler, very logical 🤔
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Defending a statue!
Grow up.
Well that was their perspective , they weren't all round it trying to tear down the statue of Winston Churchill, where they?
comment by RedLeyland (U3775)
posted 12 seconds ago
Well that was their perspective , they weren't all round it trying to tear down the statue of Winston Churchill, where they?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, they were giving Na zi salutes and chucking bottles at the police
Oh the'who arrr you' 2 arms in the air photographed from the side by the media to look like a Naz i salute for click bait,
Yeah I saw those guys didn't like the Police, if only it was for George and not Winston
comment by RedLeyland (U3775)
posted 17 hours, 54 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 7 hours, 41 minutes ago
If statues are there to commemorate history and not the person, why aren't there loads more Hitler statues? He was, after all, one of the key figures of WW2.
People saying statues are there first and foremost to remind us of our history and not to commemorate and celebrate the person they are dedicated to are simply trying to deflect. They are either being intentionally obtuse, are completely thick, or are right now probably liking the idea of statues to Hitler.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
you believe the people defending the statue of Winston Churchill want to erect statues of Hitler, very logical 🤔
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If anything is lacking in logic, it's your reply.
I made no reference whatsoever to Churchill or the people defending his statue, but to the people who have said that removing statues dedicated to individuals is an attempt to delete history. To illustrate what I meant, I asked a very rhetorical question with a very obvious answer.
However, since you bring it up let's take that statue as an example. As far as I've been able to ascertain, the only word inscribed at its base is "Churchill".
Regardless of what anybody thinks of him, that is very much a commemoration of the man, not, for example, of World War 2, or of the Allied victory, for example.
Now, since the initial point I made has been proved using your precise example, perhaps now you can explain why you sarcastically took exception to it.
Hmm maybe the current purpose of statues is to commemorate the person and history , it is possible that the majority of people, perceive it that way
Sign in if you want to comment
Plane over Etihad
Page 26 of 26
22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26
posted on 25/6/20
comment by RedLeyland (U3775)
posted 1 minute ago
Did we vote for the statues to be removed? if the other side decide to fire bomb abortion clinics for example , is that ok?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What a stupid comparison
posted on 25/6/20
Is it? Right wing conservatives (usually opposed to BLM) believe abortion is the same as a murdering a baby and the clinics bolstered by feminism are systematicly committing a holocaust. They are rabidly passionate about their position presenting evidence about the pain ,suffering and humanity of aborted fetuses. So if they decide to fire bomb an empty abortion clinic what's the difference between that and their opponents the BLM taking it upon themselves to pull down statues. Who decided they could do that?
They are both wrong, we are governed by law and we live in a democracy not ruled by the mob. It is good news that the people who tore down the Colston statue will be prosecuted by the authorities
posted on 25/6/20
But back to the original points, he wasn't and isn't celebrated for his involvement in slavery.
++
Under the dictionary definition of 'celebrated', he is my friend and well you know it. Stop apologising for it/him... and just think for yourself.
The BBC is a reliable source of news. 'Academically' or not. (whatever you mean by that in this context). I know some of you on the right don't like BBC these days , but let's face it, you don't like much in mainstream politics these days).
And the ODofNB also suggests that much of Colston's wealth was made by trading black people, which you seem to be in constant denial of.... So we spend days arguing the toss about this point of detail which has deflected from my original post about the outrageous Burnley plane, hired by Tommy Robinson supporters with its provocative message countering the current BLM campaign... to the point where I have now lost interest in debating with you as it will never end with your Strawman agenda and you will always want the last word on it.
So your job is done. And I'm out.
posted on 25/6/20
comment by RB&W (U21434)
posted 5 minutes ago
But back to the original points, he wasn't and isn't celebrated for his involvement in slavery.
++
Under the dictionary definition of 'celebrated', he is my friend and well you know it. Stop apologising for it/him... and just think for yourself.
The BBC is a reliable source of news. 'Academically' or not. (whatever you mean by that in this context). I know some of you on the right don't like BBC these days , but let's face it, you don't like much in mainstream politics these days).
And the ODofNB also suggests that much of Colston's wealth was made by trading black people, which you seem to be in constant denial of.... So we spend days arguing the toss about this point of detail which has deflected from my original post about the outrageous Burnley plane, hired by Tommy Robinson supporters with its provocative message countering the current BLM campaign... to the point where I have now lost interest in debating with you as it will never end with your Strawman agenda and you will always want the last word on it.
So your job is done. And I'm out.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
posted on 25/6/20
Today I've learnt that people exist who actually think that "Some of the millions Colston didn't derive from buying and selling black people (and murdering thousands of them in the process)" means he deserves to be preserved in our historical memory as a noteworthy figure, who did some good and bad things.
Let's be clear, the reason he had a statue was because he was a rich and powerful dude, and the rich and powerful have tended to get statues over the years, and history (particularly the history of our architecture and our public spaces) has tended to be written to glorify them. In my home town many of the streets bear the names of wealthy Victorians that mean nothing to anyone. I'm sure many of them were perfectly nice. But they have no historical meaning to the people who walk along those streets, except for the sense that these are the names we've been calling these streets for decades.
The Colston statue, similarly, stood there for centuries, and people passed by not thinking about history, most not knowing who he was or what he did, but vaguely knowing he was rich or powerful enough long ago to have got himself a statue. The existence of the statue was really a mark of forgetfulness. By contrast, the destruction of that statue was a moment of real historical remembrance, and an accurate recollection of the most historical significant activity of Colston's life.
posted on 25/6/20
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 22 minutes ago
Today I've learnt that people exist who actually think that "Some of the millions Colston didn't derive from buying and selling black people (and murdering thousands of them in the process)" means he deserves to be preserved in our historical memory as a noteworthy figure, who did some good and bad things.
Let's be clear, the reason he had a statue was because he was a rich and powerful dude, and the rich and powerful have tended to get statues over the years, and history (particularly the history of our architecture and our public spaces) has tended to be written to glorify them. In my home town many of the streets bear the names of wealthy Victorians that mean nothing to anyone. I'm sure many of them were perfectly nice. But they have no historical meaning to the people who walk along those streets, except for the sense that these are the names we've been calling these streets for decades.
The Colston statue, similarly, stood there for centuries, and people passed by not thinking about history, most not knowing who he was or what he did, but vaguely knowing he was rich or powerful enough long ago to have got himself a statue. The existence of the statue was really a mark of forgetfulness. By contrast, the destruction of that statue was a moment of real historical remembrance, and an accurate recollection of the most historical significant activity of Colston's life.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. So many people saying it was an attack on history by removing the statue but by doing it at a time when more people are wisening up to the truth of the past it was actually an event that made history.
History doesn’t always need to be in the far past. We can make history today.
posted on 25/6/20
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 25/6/20
Sigh.
The statue clearly was a celebration of slavery, the people of Bristol had been trying to get it taken down for years, but were ignored so they took matters into their own hands.
Move on.
posted on 25/6/20
If statues are there to commemorate history and not the person, why aren't there loads more Hitler statues? He was, after all, one of the key figures of WW2.
People saying statues are there first and foremost to remind us of our history and not to commemorate and celebrate the person they are dedicated to are simply trying to deflect. They are either being intentionally obtuse, are completely thick, or are right now probably liking the idea of statues to Hitler.
posted on 25/6/20
comment by Automatic For The People #BLM (U21889)
posted 33 minutes ago
Sigh.
The statue clearly was a celebration of slavery, the people of Bristol had been trying to get it taken down for years, but were ignored so they took matters into their own hands.
Move on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many people , how do you know, are you the mayor of Bristol ?
posted on 25/6/20
comment by Automatic For The People #BLM (U21889)
posted 16 hours, 56 minutes ago
It’s called voter suppression, very popular in the states.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Enlighten me, if ID can be obtained free of charge what is the problem? I can't help noticing the people who are against the rule are the people who benefit most from electoral fraud. E.g. Labour.
Not read much from you on the Brixton incident Auto, have you an opinion?
posted on 25/6/20
comment by RedLeyland (U3775)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People #BLM (U21889)
posted 33 minutes ago
Sigh.
The statue clearly was a celebration of slavery, the people of Bristol had been trying to get it taken down for years, but were ignored so they took matters into their own hands.
Move on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many people , how do you know, are you the mayor of Bristol ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s gone and rightly so.
posted on 25/6/20
Can't wait for the Mandela statue to be pulled down, the ANC killed a good few black people.
posted on 25/6/20
comment by clapfreesince2003 (U22207)
posted 12 minutes ago
Can't wait for the Mandela statue to be pulled down, the ANC killed a good few black people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s just a statue. Meaningless really
posted on 25/6/20
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 1 hour, 30 minutes ago
comment by clapfreesince2003 (U22207)
posted 12 minutes ago
Can't wait for the Mandela statue to be pulled down, the ANC killed a good few black people.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s just a statue. Meaningless really
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's true, I think their after the Gandhi statue next, had a few negative views about Africans apparently
posted on 25/6/20
comment by RedLeyland (U3775)
posted 2 hours, 26 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People #BLM (U21889)
posted 33 minutes ago
Sigh.
The statue clearly was a celebration of slavery, the people of Bristol had been trying to get it taken down for years, but were ignored so they took matters into their own hands.
Move on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
How many people , how do you know, are you the mayor of Bristol ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
classic auto lying, it was really for his philanthropy
posted on 25/6/20
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 7 hours, 41 minutes ago
If statues are there to commemorate history and not the person, why aren't there loads more Hitler statues? He was, after all, one of the key figures of WW2.
People saying statues are there first and foremost to remind us of our history and not to commemorate and celebrate the person they are dedicated to are simply trying to deflect. They are either being intentionally obtuse, are completely thick, or are right now probably liking the idea of statues to Hitler.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
you believe the people defending the statue of Winston Churchill want to erect statues of Hitler, very logical 🤔
posted on 25/6/20
That’s not what he said though, was it?
posted on 25/6/20
comment by RedLeyland (U3775)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 7 hours, 41 minutes ago
If statues are there to commemorate history and not the person, why aren't there loads more Hitler statues? He was, after all, one of the key figures of WW2.
People saying statues are there first and foremost to remind us of our history and not to commemorate and celebrate the person they are dedicated to are simply trying to deflect. They are either being intentionally obtuse, are completely thick, or are right now probably liking the idea of statues to Hitler.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
you believe the people defending the statue of Winston Churchill want to erect statues of Hitler, very logical 🤔
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Defending a statue!
Grow up.
posted on 25/6/20
Well that was their perspective , they weren't all round it trying to tear down the statue of Winston Churchill, where they?
posted on 25/6/20
comment by RedLeyland (U3775)
posted 12 seconds ago
Well that was their perspective , they weren't all round it trying to tear down the statue of Winston Churchill, where they?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, they were giving Na zi salutes and chucking bottles at the police
posted on 25/6/20
Oh the'who arrr you' 2 arms in the air photographed from the side by the media to look like a Naz i salute for click bait,
Yeah I saw those guys didn't like the Police, if only it was for George and not Winston
posted on 26/6/20
comment by RedLeyland (U3775)
posted 17 hours, 54 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 7 hours, 41 minutes ago
If statues are there to commemorate history and not the person, why aren't there loads more Hitler statues? He was, after all, one of the key figures of WW2.
People saying statues are there first and foremost to remind us of our history and not to commemorate and celebrate the person they are dedicated to are simply trying to deflect. They are either being intentionally obtuse, are completely thick, or are right now probably liking the idea of statues to Hitler.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
you believe the people defending the statue of Winston Churchill want to erect statues of Hitler, very logical 🤔
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If anything is lacking in logic, it's your reply.
I made no reference whatsoever to Churchill or the people defending his statue, but to the people who have said that removing statues dedicated to individuals is an attempt to delete history. To illustrate what I meant, I asked a very rhetorical question with a very obvious answer.
However, since you bring it up let's take that statue as an example. As far as I've been able to ascertain, the only word inscribed at its base is "Churchill".
Regardless of what anybody thinks of him, that is very much a commemoration of the man, not, for example, of World War 2, or of the Allied victory, for example.
Now, since the initial point I made has been proved using your precise example, perhaps now you can explain why you sarcastically took exception to it.
posted on 27/6/20
Hmm maybe the current purpose of statues is to commemorate the person and history , it is possible that the majority of people, perceive it that way
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