Potch will reorganise the football club from top to bottom. He will see United as the Project of His Life. All Ole's staff will be history the day he walks through the door. Rightly so, too.
comment by Glazers_Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 50 seconds ago
comment by Glazers_Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 25 seconds ago
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 24 seconds ago
comment by Robbb Pochettino (U22716)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by Robbb Pochettino (U22716)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Glazers_Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by Robbb Pochettino (U22716)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 19 seconds ago
Stretford - trust me I believe carrick etc should of all walked when ole was sacked as they were also a big reason Ole failed. They shouldn’t be here now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why should they have left with 3 days before a crucial CL game? Who else would be in charge ? Phil Jones ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah they couldn't leave on Sunday given the Villarreal game absolutely.
They should all leave for me though when we appoint the next manager. They have failed under Jose and Ole. They aren't good enough for us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree they should all leave once Poch or whoever comes in. But have no issue with them taking games until then
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think that any of us can say for certain how good these guys are. We are all just guessing.
For instance, in just one game Carrick has started Sancho on the right and started VDB. Who knows what others changes he would make? Or how his opinions differ to Ole's?
He could be just as much to blame as Ole. Or maybe Ole was set in his ways and didn't really listen too much to his coaches? We just don't know.
That isn't to say that we should keep Carrick et al. As I'd hope that they new manager has his own team that he knows and trusts. But it makes me laugh how people form opinions on how good these coaches are when we have no idea how the inner workings of Ole's coaching team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m not as entrenched as UWW on this. I would lean towards doubting the coaching ability of Carrick and McKenna but how much of that was down to working with Ole ?
If Poch for example came in and sat down with them and thought their ideas matched his then I’d be fine with them staying on. If they were forced upon Poch then I wouldn’t. It should always be the incoming managers choice and in fairness to our club, they always do seem to let the managers pick their staff.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree 100%. The manger has to be happy with his team.
My issue is with how the coaches are judged when none of us have a clue how good they are. You could have the best coach in the world, but if the manager is listening or doesn't want to take on their ideas, you aren't going to see their value.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ole didn't do any of the training. These coaches did. That's on them as some of the players look like they haven't seen a football before.
Can't blame Ole for everything. McKenna and Carrick are not top experienced coaches. They are learning on the job at the biggest club in the world.
If it was happening elsewhere we'd laugh our heads off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not blaming everything on Ole. I am saying that none of us have an idea about what went on between the coaching team. Obviously the coaches train the players in a regular basis, but it is Ole that decides on how we are going to play. The coaches then have to train the players to play that way.
That doesn't mean that they agree with Ole's ideas, tactics, team selections etc. They are just trying to implement Ole's approach.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If they didn't agree with any of it and went along with him anyway then they are equally culpable. Grow some balls and respectfully tell Ole where he's going wrong.
I don't think anyone truly believes these two and Phelan are anything like best in class. We've been left behind by the other elite clubs in Europe.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As I said, none of us know what has gone on. They may have tired to get him to change his ways, but he wouldn't listen. One of the common criticisms of Ole is that he is stubborn and doesn't change his approach enough. Or perhaps they were encouraging the way we played. We just don't know. But we have seen Carrick drop Bruno for VDB in his first game. What other changes would he make given more time?
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 41 seconds ago
No issue with an international coach coming in but just don't think it will work having them make do with Carrick and McKenna. Anyone who takes that job for 6 months on those terms must be truly desperate.
……
The they are not right for the job if they can not dictate to the coaches how they want them to coach.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You don't just walk into a club in Nov / Dec though and get total strangers on your wavelength. It doesn't work that way. It will take some time and by the time its there it will time to leave for the interim.
May as well just let Carrick take over till summer of that's the plan.
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Glazers_Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 50 seconds ago
comment by Glazers_Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 25 seconds ago
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 24 seconds ago
comment by Robbb Pochettino (U22716)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by Robbb Pochettino (U22716)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Glazers_Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by Robbb Pochettino (U22716)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 19 seconds ago
Stretford - trust me I believe carrick etc should of all walked when ole was sacked as they were also a big reason Ole failed. They shouldn’t be here now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why should they have left with 3 days before a crucial CL game? Who else would be in charge ? Phil Jones ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah they couldn't leave on Sunday given the Villarreal game absolutely.
They should all leave for me though when we appoint the next manager. They have failed under Jose and Ole. They aren't good enough for us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree they should all leave once Poch or whoever comes in. But have no issue with them taking games until then
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think that any of us can say for certain how good these guys are. We are all just guessing.
For instance, in just one game Carrick has started Sancho on the right and started VDB. Who knows what others changes he would make? Or how his opinions differ to Ole's?
He could be just as much to blame as Ole. Or maybe Ole was set in his ways and didn't really listen too much to his coaches? We just don't know.
That isn't to say that we should keep Carrick et al. As I'd hope that they new manager has his own team that he knows and trusts. But it makes me laugh how people form opinions on how good these coaches are when we have no idea how the inner workings of Ole's coaching team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m not as entrenched as UWW on this. I would lean towards doubting the coaching ability of Carrick and McKenna but how much of that was down to working with Ole ?
If Poch for example came in and sat down with them and thought their ideas matched his then I’d be fine with them staying on. If they were forced upon Poch then I wouldn’t. It should always be the incoming managers choice and in fairness to our club, they always do seem to let the managers pick their staff.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree 100%. The manger has to be happy with his team.
My issue is with how the coaches are judged when none of us have a clue how good they are. You could have the best coach in the world, but if the manager is listening or doesn't want to take on their ideas, you aren't going to see their value.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ole didn't do any of the training. These coaches did. That's on them as some of the players look like they haven't seen a football before.
Can't blame Ole for everything. McKenna and Carrick are not top experienced coaches. They are learning on the job at the biggest club in the world.
If it was happening elsewhere we'd laugh our heads off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not blaming everything on Ole. I am saying that none of us have an idea about what went on between the coaching team. Obviously the coaches train the players in a regular basis, but it is Ole that decides on how we are going to play. The coaches then have to train the players to play that way.
That doesn't mean that they agree with Ole's ideas, tactics, team selections etc. They are just trying to implement Ole's approach.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If they didn't agree with any of it and went along with him anyway then they are equally culpable. Grow some balls and respectfully tell Ole where he's going wrong.
I don't think anyone truly believes these two and Phelan are anything like best in class. We've been left behind by the other elite clubs in Europe.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As I said, none of us know what has gone on. They may have tired to get him to change his ways, but he wouldn't listen. One of the common criticisms of Ole is that he is stubborn and doesn't change his approach enough. Or perhaps they were encouraging the way we played. We just don't know. But we have seen Carrick drop Bruno for VDB in his first game. What other changes would he make given more time?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopefully he'll sack Phelan and McKenna 😂
comment by Jadon The King Sancho (U10026)
posted 14 minutes ago
That getting someone that has worked in England before isn’t the best choice for securing top four.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who do you get then?
Worked in England + having been successful to some degree?
Premier League experience?
CL experience needed?
comment by HB Fash (U21935)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by Jadon The King Sancho (U10026)
posted 14 minutes ago
That getting someone that has worked in England before isn’t the best choice for securing top four.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who do you get then?
Worked in England + having been successful to some degree?
Premier League experience?
CL experience needed?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wenger
Our coaches were equally to blame as Ole. In fact given they did all the coaching sessions I think more so actually.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
As Elvis has pointed out, this assumption is totally evidence free. People are assuming all the coaching staff are terrible because the football was bad, but we don't know how much influence they had on the actual design of the sessions or the decisions around tactics. If you ask great coaches to train people to do things that won't work on the pitch, it's not the fault of the coaches. Last night, as Elvis has also pointed out, was a clear illustration not that Carrick is a fantastic coach, but at least of the fact that he has significantly different tactical ideas from the ones Solskjaer was using. He was willing to drop two of our more productive attacking players in order to create a more rigorous defensive structure, came up with the new approach of playing a 4-4-2 out of possession which switched to something closer to a 4-3-3 when we had the ball. He's very clearly not a clone of Solskjaer, and very clearly had ideas that weren't adopted when Solskjaer was his boss. This is one of the few things for which we actually have concrete evidence.
As I said in my post last night, the rot in dysfunctional organisations tends to start at the top, and is often reflected in the failure to listen to better ideas, which are often actually floating around. That's not to suggest that Carrick and the rest of the team are definitely required in the long term. I can't know that. But I'm afraid the idea that you should sack everyone overnight and assume there's no valuable knowledge about this group of players that the new regime would benefit from within the current staff is pretty stupid.
You don't just walk into a club in Nov / Dec though and get total strangers on your wavelength.
……
Why not? Tuchel did.
comment by Robbb Pochettino (U22716)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by HB Fash (U21935)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by Jadon The King Sancho (U10026)
posted 14 minutes ago
That getting someone that has worked in England before isn’t the best choice for securing top four.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who do you get then?
Worked in England + having been successful to some degree?
Premier League experience?
CL experience needed?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wenger
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Imagine if we got Wenger and he won the CL?
RVP joins and wins the PL. Wenger joins and wins the CL.
Wenger, decent enough shout from a United perspective but he would never take it.
Loves Arsenal like he gave birth to it.
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
Our coaches were equally to blame as Ole. In fact given they did all the coaching sessions I think more so actually.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
As Elvis has pointed out, this assumption is totally evidence free. People are assuming all the coaching staff are terrible because the football was bad, but we don't know how much influence they had on the actual design of the sessions or the decisions around tactics. If you ask great coaches to train people to do things that won't work on the pitch, it's not the fault of the coaches. Last night, as Elvis has also pointed out, was a clear illustration not that Carrick is a fantastic coach, but at least of the fact that he has significantly different tactical ideas from the ones Solskjaer was using. He was willing to drop two of our more productive attacking players in order to create a more rigorous defensive structure, came up with the new approach of playing a 4-4-2 out of possession which switched to something closer to a 4-3-3 when we had the ball. He's very clearly not a clone of Solskjaer, and very clearly had ideas that weren't adopted when Solskjaer was his boss. This is one of the few things for which we actually have concrete evidence.
As I said in my post last night, the rot in dysfunctional organisations tends to start at the top, and is often reflected in the failure to listen to better ideas, which are often actually floating around. That's not to suggest that Carrick and the rest of the team are definitely required in the long term. I can't know that. But I'm afraid the idea that you should sack everyone overnight and assume there's no valuable knowledge about this group of players that the new regime would benefit from within the current staff is pretty stupid.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why you got to come on here, explain my ideas better than me and make me look god damn inarticulate?
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 41 seconds ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
Our coaches were equally to blame as Ole. In fact given they did all the coaching sessions I think more so actually.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
As Elvis has pointed out, this assumption is totally evidence free. People are assuming all the coaching staff are terrible because the football was bad, but we don't know how much influence they had on the actual design of the sessions or the decisions around tactics. If you ask great coaches to train people to do things that won't work on the pitch, it's not the fault of the coaches. Last night, as Elvis has also pointed out, was a clear illustration not that Carrick is a fantastic coach, but at least of the fact that he has significantly different tactical ideas from the ones Solskjaer was using. He was willing to drop two of our more productive attacking players in order to create a more rigorous defensive structure, came up with the new approach of playing a 4-4-2 out of possession which switched to something closer to a 4-3-3 when we had the ball. He's very clearly not a clone of Solskjaer, and very clearly had ideas that weren't adopted when Solskjaer was his boss. This is one of the few things for which we actually have concrete evidence.
As I said in my post last night, the rot in dysfunctional organisations tends to start at the top, and is often reflected in the failure to listen to better ideas, which are often actually floating around. That's not to suggest that Carrick and the rest of the team are definitely required in the long term. I can't know that. But I'm afraid the idea that you should sack everyone overnight and assume there's no valuable knowledge about this group of players that the new regime would benefit from within the current staff is pretty stupid.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why you got to come on here, explain my ideas better than me and make me look god damn inarticulate?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Red Russian is the hitman that hitmen hire to come in and do the best possible job.
comment by HB Fash (U21935)
posted 50 seconds ago
Wenger, decent enough shout from a United perspective but he would never take it.
Loves Arsenal like he gave birth to it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
His minds telling him no......but the little boy inside him......the little boy inside him is telling him yeeeeesssssss.
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 6 minutes ago
You don't just walk into a club in Nov / Dec though and get total strangers on your wavelength.
……
Why not? Tuchel did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didnt he bring a coaching team with him?
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
The 442 out of possession is something most managers have done with Ronaldo in their team since Ancelotti started doing it at Madrid.
The abilities of the coaching set up at United is clearly something that should be scrutinised. There’s a lot of things in our play that were so common under Fergie’s latter years - and they weren’t good things - that obviously has to be coming from Phelan.
Even it the ideas that are being implemented are coming from Ole, the staff have a responsibility to drill them into the players, and that’s clearly a huge issue in this side.
Not that this absolves Ole of blame. They are his guys and if he trusted them to implement his plans, but didn’t address when it wasn’t working, then he only has himself to blame.
Any interim isn’t going to solve all our problems, but nobody thinks that anyway. Changes can be made even with the current coaching staff, however, as an interim may be more hands on with the coaching and just have different ideas from Ole that can see changes in how we play.
Poch Update #3
Julian Laurens, ESPN corespondent and journalist who also happens to be Poch’s friend and long term PSG fan thinks the Poch deal will be done by this weekend and Zidane (who has worked in the past with the Qataris on their World Cup bid) will be happy to take over and a deal makes sense for all parties.
comment by Robbb Pochettino (U22716)
posted 1 hour, 32 minutes ago
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 19 seconds ago
Stretford - trust me I believe carrick etc should of all walked when ole was sacked as they were also a big reason Ole failed. They shouldn’t be here now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why should they have left with 3 days before a crucial CL game? Who else would be in charge ? Phil Jones ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Knows the club.
Knows the staff.
Good for team morale.
From the SAF days
Club legend
What more can you ask for from a manager?
In all seriousness, how is Phil Jones still at United? Does anyone have a proper answer.....
comment by GregOle (U1192)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Robbb Pochettino (U22716)
posted 1 hour, 32 minutes ago
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 19 seconds ago
Stretford - trust me I believe carrick etc should of all walked when ole was sacked as they were also a big reason Ole failed. They shouldn’t be here now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why should they have left with 3 days before a crucial CL game? Who else would be in charge ? Phil Jones ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Knows the club.
Knows the staff.
Good for team morale.
From the SAF days
Club legend
What more can you ask for from a manager?
In all seriousness, how is Phil Jones still at United? Does anyone have a proper answer.....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You know the way parents will sometimes pull funny faces at their baby to stop them from crying and make them laugh? Yeah, that's what Phil Jones does in the United dressing room. He boosts morale.
comment by Glazers_Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 6 minutes ago
You don't just walk into a club in Nov / Dec though and get total strangers on your wavelength.
……
Why not? Tuchel did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didnt he bring a coaching team with him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not as far as I know.
comment by Robbb Pochettino (U22716)
posted 11 minutes ago
Poch Update #3
Julian Laurens, ESPN corespondent and journalist who also happens to be Poch’s friend and long term PSG fan thinks the Poch deal will be done by this weekend and Zidane (who has worked in the past with the Qataris on their World Cup bid) will be happy to take over and a deal makes sense for all parties.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
FFS Woodward Out
An interim coach, for 6 months should come in and get rid of 7 years of institutional knowledge of United. Are you all ok?
For one let it be clear, any manager who comes in to "turn everything on his head" will fail. We are not Chelsea. We are like Liverpool, we have a way no matter how we all try to ignore it.
And I think there are holdovers from the previous management at Liverpool, City (don't know about Chelsea) at least initially.
Poch Update #4
We’ve made our first approach for Poch in the past hour and PSG have knocked it back. Gonna have to go back with a better offer.
How does it work with managers? Players can be stopped from moving but do managers have the same protection? Or do they always have the power to walk away if some compensation is paid?
comment by GregOle (U1192)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Robbb Pochettino (U22716)
posted 1 hour, 32 minutes ago
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 19 seconds ago
Stretford - trust me I believe carrick etc should of all walked when ole was sacked as they were also a big reason Ole failed. They shouldn’t be here now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why should they have left with 3 days before a crucial CL game? Who else would be in charge ? Phil Jones ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Knows the club.
Knows the staff.
Good for team morale.
From the SAF days
Club legend
What more can you ask for from a manager?
In all seriousness, how is Phil Jones still at United? Does anyone have a proper answer.....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He has a contract
Sign in if you want to comment
Valverde / Rudi Garcia with our coaches
Page 3 of 6
6
posted on 24/11/21
Potch will reorganise the football club from top to bottom. He will see United as the Project of His Life. All Ole's staff will be history the day he walks through the door. Rightly so, too.
posted on 24/11/21
comment by Glazers_Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 50 seconds ago
comment by Glazers_Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 25 seconds ago
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 24 seconds ago
comment by Robbb Pochettino (U22716)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by Robbb Pochettino (U22716)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Glazers_Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by Robbb Pochettino (U22716)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 19 seconds ago
Stretford - trust me I believe carrick etc should of all walked when ole was sacked as they were also a big reason Ole failed. They shouldn’t be here now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why should they have left with 3 days before a crucial CL game? Who else would be in charge ? Phil Jones ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah they couldn't leave on Sunday given the Villarreal game absolutely.
They should all leave for me though when we appoint the next manager. They have failed under Jose and Ole. They aren't good enough for us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree they should all leave once Poch or whoever comes in. But have no issue with them taking games until then
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think that any of us can say for certain how good these guys are. We are all just guessing.
For instance, in just one game Carrick has started Sancho on the right and started VDB. Who knows what others changes he would make? Or how his opinions differ to Ole's?
He could be just as much to blame as Ole. Or maybe Ole was set in his ways and didn't really listen too much to his coaches? We just don't know.
That isn't to say that we should keep Carrick et al. As I'd hope that they new manager has his own team that he knows and trusts. But it makes me laugh how people form opinions on how good these coaches are when we have no idea how the inner workings of Ole's coaching team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m not as entrenched as UWW on this. I would lean towards doubting the coaching ability of Carrick and McKenna but how much of that was down to working with Ole ?
If Poch for example came in and sat down with them and thought their ideas matched his then I’d be fine with them staying on. If they were forced upon Poch then I wouldn’t. It should always be the incoming managers choice and in fairness to our club, they always do seem to let the managers pick their staff.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree 100%. The manger has to be happy with his team.
My issue is with how the coaches are judged when none of us have a clue how good they are. You could have the best coach in the world, but if the manager is listening or doesn't want to take on their ideas, you aren't going to see their value.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ole didn't do any of the training. These coaches did. That's on them as some of the players look like they haven't seen a football before.
Can't blame Ole for everything. McKenna and Carrick are not top experienced coaches. They are learning on the job at the biggest club in the world.
If it was happening elsewhere we'd laugh our heads off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not blaming everything on Ole. I am saying that none of us have an idea about what went on between the coaching team. Obviously the coaches train the players in a regular basis, but it is Ole that decides on how we are going to play. The coaches then have to train the players to play that way.
That doesn't mean that they agree with Ole's ideas, tactics, team selections etc. They are just trying to implement Ole's approach.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If they didn't agree with any of it and went along with him anyway then they are equally culpable. Grow some balls and respectfully tell Ole where he's going wrong.
I don't think anyone truly believes these two and Phelan are anything like best in class. We've been left behind by the other elite clubs in Europe.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As I said, none of us know what has gone on. They may have tired to get him to change his ways, but he wouldn't listen. One of the common criticisms of Ole is that he is stubborn and doesn't change his approach enough. Or perhaps they were encouraging the way we played. We just don't know. But we have seen Carrick drop Bruno for VDB in his first game. What other changes would he make given more time?
posted on 24/11/21
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 41 seconds ago
No issue with an international coach coming in but just don't think it will work having them make do with Carrick and McKenna. Anyone who takes that job for 6 months on those terms must be truly desperate.
……
The they are not right for the job if they can not dictate to the coaches how they want them to coach.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You don't just walk into a club in Nov / Dec though and get total strangers on your wavelength. It doesn't work that way. It will take some time and by the time its there it will time to leave for the interim.
May as well just let Carrick take over till summer of that's the plan.
posted on 24/11/21
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Glazers_Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 50 seconds ago
comment by Glazers_Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 25 seconds ago
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 24 seconds ago
comment by Robbb Pochettino (U22716)
posted 14 minutes ago
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by Robbb Pochettino (U22716)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Glazers_Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 13 seconds ago
comment by Robbb Pochettino (U22716)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 19 seconds ago
Stretford - trust me I believe carrick etc should of all walked when ole was sacked as they were also a big reason Ole failed. They shouldn’t be here now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why should they have left with 3 days before a crucial CL game? Who else would be in charge ? Phil Jones ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah they couldn't leave on Sunday given the Villarreal game absolutely.
They should all leave for me though when we appoint the next manager. They have failed under Jose and Ole. They aren't good enough for us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree they should all leave once Poch or whoever comes in. But have no issue with them taking games until then
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think that any of us can say for certain how good these guys are. We are all just guessing.
For instance, in just one game Carrick has started Sancho on the right and started VDB. Who knows what others changes he would make? Or how his opinions differ to Ole's?
He could be just as much to blame as Ole. Or maybe Ole was set in his ways and didn't really listen too much to his coaches? We just don't know.
That isn't to say that we should keep Carrick et al. As I'd hope that they new manager has his own team that he knows and trusts. But it makes me laugh how people form opinions on how good these coaches are when we have no idea how the inner workings of Ole's coaching team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m not as entrenched as UWW on this. I would lean towards doubting the coaching ability of Carrick and McKenna but how much of that was down to working with Ole ?
If Poch for example came in and sat down with them and thought their ideas matched his then I’d be fine with them staying on. If they were forced upon Poch then I wouldn’t. It should always be the incoming managers choice and in fairness to our club, they always do seem to let the managers pick their staff.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree 100%. The manger has to be happy with his team.
My issue is with how the coaches are judged when none of us have a clue how good they are. You could have the best coach in the world, but if the manager is listening or doesn't want to take on their ideas, you aren't going to see their value.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ole didn't do any of the training. These coaches did. That's on them as some of the players look like they haven't seen a football before.
Can't blame Ole for everything. McKenna and Carrick are not top experienced coaches. They are learning on the job at the biggest club in the world.
If it was happening elsewhere we'd laugh our heads off.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not blaming everything on Ole. I am saying that none of us have an idea about what went on between the coaching team. Obviously the coaches train the players in a regular basis, but it is Ole that decides on how we are going to play. The coaches then have to train the players to play that way.
That doesn't mean that they agree with Ole's ideas, tactics, team selections etc. They are just trying to implement Ole's approach.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If they didn't agree with any of it and went along with him anyway then they are equally culpable. Grow some balls and respectfully tell Ole where he's going wrong.
I don't think anyone truly believes these two and Phelan are anything like best in class. We've been left behind by the other elite clubs in Europe.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As I said, none of us know what has gone on. They may have tired to get him to change his ways, but he wouldn't listen. One of the common criticisms of Ole is that he is stubborn and doesn't change his approach enough. Or perhaps they were encouraging the way we played. We just don't know. But we have seen Carrick drop Bruno for VDB in his first game. What other changes would he make given more time?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopefully he'll sack Phelan and McKenna 😂
posted on 24/11/21
comment by Jadon The King Sancho (U10026)
posted 14 minutes ago
That getting someone that has worked in England before isn’t the best choice for securing top four.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who do you get then?
Worked in England + having been successful to some degree?
Premier League experience?
CL experience needed?
posted on 24/11/21
comment by HB Fash (U21935)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by Jadon The King Sancho (U10026)
posted 14 minutes ago
That getting someone that has worked in England before isn’t the best choice for securing top four.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who do you get then?
Worked in England + having been successful to some degree?
Premier League experience?
CL experience needed?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wenger
posted on 24/11/21
Our coaches were equally to blame as Ole. In fact given they did all the coaching sessions I think more so actually.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
As Elvis has pointed out, this assumption is totally evidence free. People are assuming all the coaching staff are terrible because the football was bad, but we don't know how much influence they had on the actual design of the sessions or the decisions around tactics. If you ask great coaches to train people to do things that won't work on the pitch, it's not the fault of the coaches. Last night, as Elvis has also pointed out, was a clear illustration not that Carrick is a fantastic coach, but at least of the fact that he has significantly different tactical ideas from the ones Solskjaer was using. He was willing to drop two of our more productive attacking players in order to create a more rigorous defensive structure, came up with the new approach of playing a 4-4-2 out of possession which switched to something closer to a 4-3-3 when we had the ball. He's very clearly not a clone of Solskjaer, and very clearly had ideas that weren't adopted when Solskjaer was his boss. This is one of the few things for which we actually have concrete evidence.
As I said in my post last night, the rot in dysfunctional organisations tends to start at the top, and is often reflected in the failure to listen to better ideas, which are often actually floating around. That's not to suggest that Carrick and the rest of the team are definitely required in the long term. I can't know that. But I'm afraid the idea that you should sack everyone overnight and assume there's no valuable knowledge about this group of players that the new regime would benefit from within the current staff is pretty stupid.
posted on 24/11/21
You don't just walk into a club in Nov / Dec though and get total strangers on your wavelength.
……
Why not? Tuchel did.
posted on 24/11/21
comment by Robbb Pochettino (U22716)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by HB Fash (U21935)
posted 48 seconds ago
comment by Jadon The King Sancho (U10026)
posted 14 minutes ago
That getting someone that has worked in England before isn’t the best choice for securing top four.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Who do you get then?
Worked in England + having been successful to some degree?
Premier League experience?
CL experience needed?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wenger
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Imagine if we got Wenger and he won the CL?
RVP joins and wins the PL. Wenger joins and wins the CL.
posted on 24/11/21
Wenger, decent enough shout from a United perspective but he would never take it.
Loves Arsenal like he gave birth to it.
posted on 24/11/21
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
Our coaches were equally to blame as Ole. In fact given they did all the coaching sessions I think more so actually.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
As Elvis has pointed out, this assumption is totally evidence free. People are assuming all the coaching staff are terrible because the football was bad, but we don't know how much influence they had on the actual design of the sessions or the decisions around tactics. If you ask great coaches to train people to do things that won't work on the pitch, it's not the fault of the coaches. Last night, as Elvis has also pointed out, was a clear illustration not that Carrick is a fantastic coach, but at least of the fact that he has significantly different tactical ideas from the ones Solskjaer was using. He was willing to drop two of our more productive attacking players in order to create a more rigorous defensive structure, came up with the new approach of playing a 4-4-2 out of possession which switched to something closer to a 4-3-3 when we had the ball. He's very clearly not a clone of Solskjaer, and very clearly had ideas that weren't adopted when Solskjaer was his boss. This is one of the few things for which we actually have concrete evidence.
As I said in my post last night, the rot in dysfunctional organisations tends to start at the top, and is often reflected in the failure to listen to better ideas, which are often actually floating around. That's not to suggest that Carrick and the rest of the team are definitely required in the long term. I can't know that. But I'm afraid the idea that you should sack everyone overnight and assume there's no valuable knowledge about this group of players that the new regime would benefit from within the current staff is pretty stupid.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why you got to come on here, explain my ideas better than me and make me look god damn inarticulate?
posted on 24/11/21
comment by Elvis: King of Cult (U7425)
posted 41 seconds ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 2 minutes ago
Our coaches were equally to blame as Ole. In fact given they did all the coaching sessions I think more so actually.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
As Elvis has pointed out, this assumption is totally evidence free. People are assuming all the coaching staff are terrible because the football was bad, but we don't know how much influence they had on the actual design of the sessions or the decisions around tactics. If you ask great coaches to train people to do things that won't work on the pitch, it's not the fault of the coaches. Last night, as Elvis has also pointed out, was a clear illustration not that Carrick is a fantastic coach, but at least of the fact that he has significantly different tactical ideas from the ones Solskjaer was using. He was willing to drop two of our more productive attacking players in order to create a more rigorous defensive structure, came up with the new approach of playing a 4-4-2 out of possession which switched to something closer to a 4-3-3 when we had the ball. He's very clearly not a clone of Solskjaer, and very clearly had ideas that weren't adopted when Solskjaer was his boss. This is one of the few things for which we actually have concrete evidence.
As I said in my post last night, the rot in dysfunctional organisations tends to start at the top, and is often reflected in the failure to listen to better ideas, which are often actually floating around. That's not to suggest that Carrick and the rest of the team are definitely required in the long term. I can't know that. But I'm afraid the idea that you should sack everyone overnight and assume there's no valuable knowledge about this group of players that the new regime would benefit from within the current staff is pretty stupid.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why you got to come on here, explain my ideas better than me and make me look god damn inarticulate?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Red Russian is the hitman that hitmen hire to come in and do the best possible job.
posted on 24/11/21
comment by HB Fash (U21935)
posted 50 seconds ago
Wenger, decent enough shout from a United perspective but he would never take it.
Loves Arsenal like he gave birth to it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
His minds telling him no......but the little boy inside him......the little boy inside him is telling him yeeeeesssssss.
posted on 24/11/21
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 6 minutes ago
You don't just walk into a club in Nov / Dec though and get total strangers on your wavelength.
……
Why not? Tuchel did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didnt he bring a coaching team with him?
posted on 24/11/21
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 24/11/21
The 442 out of possession is something most managers have done with Ronaldo in their team since Ancelotti started doing it at Madrid.
The abilities of the coaching set up at United is clearly something that should be scrutinised. There’s a lot of things in our play that were so common under Fergie’s latter years - and they weren’t good things - that obviously has to be coming from Phelan.
Even it the ideas that are being implemented are coming from Ole, the staff have a responsibility to drill them into the players, and that’s clearly a huge issue in this side.
Not that this absolves Ole of blame. They are his guys and if he trusted them to implement his plans, but didn’t address when it wasn’t working, then he only has himself to blame.
Any interim isn’t going to solve all our problems, but nobody thinks that anyway. Changes can be made even with the current coaching staff, however, as an interim may be more hands on with the coaching and just have different ideas from Ole that can see changes in how we play.
posted on 24/11/21
Poch Update #3
Julian Laurens, ESPN corespondent and journalist who also happens to be Poch’s friend and long term PSG fan thinks the Poch deal will be done by this weekend and Zidane (who has worked in the past with the Qataris on their World Cup bid) will be happy to take over and a deal makes sense for all parties.
posted on 24/11/21
* correspondent
posted on 24/11/21
comment by Robbb Pochettino (U22716)
posted 1 hour, 32 minutes ago
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 19 seconds ago
Stretford - trust me I believe carrick etc should of all walked when ole was sacked as they were also a big reason Ole failed. They shouldn’t be here now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why should they have left with 3 days before a crucial CL game? Who else would be in charge ? Phil Jones ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Knows the club.
Knows the staff.
Good for team morale.
From the SAF days
Club legend
What more can you ask for from a manager?
In all seriousness, how is Phil Jones still at United? Does anyone have a proper answer.....
posted on 24/11/21
comment by GregOle (U1192)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Robbb Pochettino (U22716)
posted 1 hour, 32 minutes ago
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 19 seconds ago
Stretford - trust me I believe carrick etc should of all walked when ole was sacked as they were also a big reason Ole failed. They shouldn’t be here now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why should they have left with 3 days before a crucial CL game? Who else would be in charge ? Phil Jones ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Knows the club.
Knows the staff.
Good for team morale.
From the SAF days
Club legend
What more can you ask for from a manager?
In all seriousness, how is Phil Jones still at United? Does anyone have a proper answer.....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You know the way parents will sometimes pull funny faces at their baby to stop them from crying and make them laugh? Yeah, that's what Phil Jones does in the United dressing room. He boosts morale.
posted on 24/11/21
comment by Glazers_Out (SE85) (U21241)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 6 minutes ago
You don't just walk into a club in Nov / Dec though and get total strangers on your wavelength.
……
Why not? Tuchel did.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Didnt he bring a coaching team with him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not as far as I know.
posted on 24/11/21
comment by Robbb Pochettino (U22716)
posted 11 minutes ago
Poch Update #3
Julian Laurens, ESPN corespondent and journalist who also happens to be Poch’s friend and long term PSG fan thinks the Poch deal will be done by this weekend and Zidane (who has worked in the past with the Qataris on their World Cup bid) will be happy to take over and a deal makes sense for all parties.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
FFS Woodward Out
posted on 24/11/21
An interim coach, for 6 months should come in and get rid of 7 years of institutional knowledge of United. Are you all ok?
For one let it be clear, any manager who comes in to "turn everything on his head" will fail. We are not Chelsea. We are like Liverpool, we have a way no matter how we all try to ignore it.
And I think there are holdovers from the previous management at Liverpool, City (don't know about Chelsea) at least initially.
posted on 24/11/21
Poch Update #4
We’ve made our first approach for Poch in the past hour and PSG have knocked it back. Gonna have to go back with a better offer.
How does it work with managers? Players can be stopped from moving but do managers have the same protection? Or do they always have the power to walk away if some compensation is paid?
posted on 24/11/21
comment by GregOle (U1192)
posted 13 minutes ago
comment by Robbb Pochettino (U22716)
posted 1 hour, 32 minutes ago
comment by United we win (U19958)
posted 19 seconds ago
Stretford - trust me I believe carrick etc should of all walked when ole was sacked as they were also a big reason Ole failed. They shouldn’t be here now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why should they have left with 3 days before a crucial CL game? Who else would be in charge ? Phil Jones ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Knows the club.
Knows the staff.
Good for team morale.
From the SAF days
Club legend
What more can you ask for from a manager?
In all seriousness, how is Phil Jones still at United? Does anyone have a proper answer.....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He has a contract
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