I wonder what his thoughts are on Gingers?
I think the point is simply that one shouldn't use animal behaviour to justify human behaviour. That logical train certainly does not extend to 'being gay is against nature and god'.
comment by Ronald-Royce (U4302)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann (U1270)
posted 5 minutes ago
I'm trying to untangle your logic here, Jinja. Are you using this primates example to support what Mohamed Aboutrika said?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair, what he said might not be acceptable in the west but the country he lives in and a lot of other countries, Muslim or not probably share his views. Even China is against it and that's one of the biggest atheist country in the world. Saying that sometimes you need to be careful what you say to the media as it will be scrutinised to the fullest, especially anything related to LGBT.
In the west, homosexuality and transgenderism etc might be considered as normal and acceptable (and that's only the past 20 years), but in a lot of other countries, they see this as shameful and immoral.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think both your geography and your history might be a little off there.
As pointed out above, at various points through ancient and modern history, societies all over the world have been very accepting of homosexuality and homosexual relationships, including in Islamic states. It isn’t only in the West in the “past 20 years”.
The same can be said of trans history, which documented is 6,500 years old.
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann (U1270)
posted 41 minutes ago
I'm trying to untangle your logic here, Jinja. Are you using this primates example to support what Mohamed Aboutrika said?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not really no, i wasnt offering an opinion or support, rather trying to put the whole religion v atheism v science thing into a sort of devils advocate type situation.
similarly the whole monkeys do it so its all goody point made was me asking if we should stop just with one issue
comment by Ronald-Royce (U4302)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann (U1270)
posted 5 minutes ago
I'm trying to untangle your logic here, Jinja. Are you using this primates example to support what Mohamed Aboutrika said?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair, what he said might not be acceptable in the west but the country he lives in and a lot of other countries, Muslim or not probably share his views. Even China is against it and that's one of the biggest atheist country in the world. Saying that sometimes you need to be careful what you say to the media as it will be scrutinised to the fullest, especially anything related to LGBT.
In the west, homosexuality and transgenderism etc might be considered as normal and acceptable (and that's only the past 20 years), but in a lot of other countries, they see this as shameful and immoral.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So what we're saying is that perception and tolerance or otherwise of homosexuality is driven by societal values, so shouldn't be rationalised by using theistic belief?
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 1 hour, 45 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
comment by LustyMonc (U22632)
posted 6 hours, 37 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 49 minutes ago
comment by LustyMonc (U22632)
posted 2 minutes ago
OP, AIDS is just the human version of the monkey (simian) AIDS. Why did your god/God/G-d create monkey AIDS first? Also, do monkeys do sodomy? [Clue: yes, they do.]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Think you answered your own question there
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was rhetorical. Just to let creationists know that what's considered "abnormal" is already pre-existing in nature. Which means it's normal. Just like homosexuality and butt-sex.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So is cannibalism, rape, in cest and pedophilia. That's just chimps and bonobo monkeys.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thankfully they're rare traits although a couple of those happen to be far more common among religious people, especially the leaders of the major religions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not all of those are that rare.
Point being just coz monkeys do it doesn't mean we should.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your "point" is moronic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
moronic why?
the guy says it exist in nature so we should get used to it
there is a whole lot of fecked up chit in nature. which bits do we accept and which bits do we leave out?
comment by Ronald-Royce (U4302)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann (U1270)
posted 5 minutes ago
I'm trying to untangle your logic here, Jinja. Are you using this primates example to support what Mohamed Aboutrika said?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair, what he said might not be acceptable in the west but the country he lives in and a lot of other countries, Muslim or not probably share his views. Even China is against it and that's one of the biggest atheist country in the world. Saying that sometimes you need to be careful what you say to the media as it will be scrutinised to the fullest, especially anything related to LGBT.
In the west, homosexuality and transgenderism etc might be considered as normal and acceptable (and that's only the past 20 years), but in a lot of other countries, they see this as shameful and immoral.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i live in the UK mate
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 24 seconds ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 1 hour, 45 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
comment by LustyMonc (U22632)
posted 6 hours, 37 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 49 minutes ago
comment by LustyMonc (U22632)
posted 2 minutes ago
OP, AIDS is just the human version of the monkey (simian) AIDS. Why did your god/God/G-d create monkey AIDS first? Also, do monkeys do sodomy? [Clue: yes, they do.]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Think you answered your own question there
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was rhetorical. Just to let creationists know that what's considered "abnormal" is already pre-existing in nature. Which means it's normal. Just like homosexuality and butt-sex.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So is cannibalism, rape, in cest and pedophilia. That's just chimps and bonobo monkeys.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thankfully they're rare traits although a couple of those happen to be far more common among religious people, especially the leaders of the major religions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not all of those are that rare.
Point being just coz monkeys do it doesn't mean we should.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your "point" is moronic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
moronic why?
the guy says it exist in nature so we should get used to it
there is a whole lot of fecked up chit in nature. which bits do we accept and which bits do we leave out?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your argument implies that homosexuality is 'fecked up chit' then - is that a fair assessment?
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann (U1270)
posted 56 seconds ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 24 seconds ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 1 hour, 45 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
comment by LustyMonc (U22632)
posted 6 hours, 37 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 49 minutes ago
comment by LustyMonc (U22632)
posted 2 minutes ago
OP, AIDS is just the human version of the monkey (simian) AIDS. Why did your god/God/G-d create monkey AIDS first? Also, do monkeys do sodomy? [Clue: yes, they do.]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Think you answered your own question there
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was rhetorical. Just to let creationists know that what's considered "abnormal" is already pre-existing in nature. Which means it's normal. Just like homosexuality and butt-sex.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So is cannibalism, rape, in cest and pedophilia. That's just chimps and bonobo monkeys.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thankfully they're rare traits although a couple of those happen to be far more common among religious people, especially the leaders of the major religions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not all of those are that rare.
Point being just coz monkeys do it doesn't mean we should.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your "point" is moronic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
moronic why?
the guy says it exist in nature so we should get used to it
there is a whole lot of fecked up chit in nature. which bits do we accept and which bits do we leave out?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your argument implies that homosexuality is 'fecked up chit' then - is that a fair assessment?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
nice try.
im simply saying just coz something is acceptble in nature/other species isnt an argument that is viable
I really wouldn't conflate homosexuality with cannibalism that's not the best. I agree with the point that animal behaviour does not justify human behaviour. I don't think we should draw any further conclusions from that particular pathway, except for the idea that there must be another way to justify human behaviour besides looking to nature (and in the process invalidating the 'against nature' argument)
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 4 seconds ago
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann (U1270)
posted 56 seconds ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 24 seconds ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 1 hour, 45 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
comment by LustyMonc (U22632)
posted 6 hours, 37 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 49 minutes ago
comment by LustyMonc (U22632)
posted 2 minutes ago
OP, AIDS is just the human version of the monkey (simian) AIDS. Why did your god/God/G-d create monkey AIDS first? Also, do monkeys do sodomy? [Clue: yes, they do.]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Think you answered your own question there
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was rhetorical. Just to let creationists know that what's considered "abnormal" is already pre-existing in nature. Which means it's normal. Just like homosexuality and butt-sex.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So is cannibalism, rape, in cest and pedophilia. That's just chimps and bonobo monkeys.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thankfully they're rare traits although a couple of those happen to be far more common among religious people, especially the leaders of the major religions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not all of those are that rare.
Point being just coz monkeys do it doesn't mean we should.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your "point" is moronic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
moronic why?
the guy says it exist in nature so we should get used to it
there is a whole lot of fecked up chit in nature. which bits do we accept and which bits do we leave out?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your argument implies that homosexuality is 'fecked up chit' then - is that a fair assessment?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
nice try.
im simply saying just coz something is acceptble in nature/other species isnt an argument that is viable
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not trying anything, I'm just trying to understand your line of reasoning
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann (U1270)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 4 seconds ago
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann (U1270)
posted 56 seconds ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 24 seconds ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 1 hour, 45 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
comment by LustyMonc (U22632)
posted 6 hours, 37 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 49 minutes ago
comment by LustyMonc (U22632)
posted 2 minutes ago
OP, AIDS is just the human version of the monkey (simian) AIDS. Why did your god/God/G-d create monkey AIDS first? Also, do monkeys do sodomy? [Clue: yes, they do.]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Think you answered your own question there
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was rhetorical. Just to let creationists know that what's considered "abnormal" is already pre-existing in nature. Which means it's normal. Just like homosexuality and butt-sex.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So is cannibalism, rape, in cest and pedophilia. That's just chimps and bonobo monkeys.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thankfully they're rare traits although a couple of those happen to be far more common among religious people, especially the leaders of the major religions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not all of those are that rare.
Point being just coz monkeys do it doesn't mean we should.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your "point" is moronic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
moronic why?
the guy says it exist in nature so we should get used to it
there is a whole lot of fecked up chit in nature. which bits do we accept and which bits do we leave out?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your argument implies that homosexuality is 'fecked up chit' then - is that a fair assessment?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
nice try.
im simply saying just coz something is acceptble in nature/other species isnt an argument that is viable
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not trying anything, I'm just trying to understand your line of reasoning
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i was addressing a point being made.
my reasoning is simple. the notion of monkeys/primates habits are not a useful indicator to our habits as humans.
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann (U1270)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 4 seconds ago
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann (U1270)
posted 56 seconds ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 24 seconds ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 1 hour, 45 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
comment by LustyMonc (U22632)
posted 6 hours, 37 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 49 minutes ago
comment by LustyMonc (U22632)
posted 2 minutes ago
OP, AIDS is just the human version of the monkey (simian) AIDS. Why did your god/God/G-d create monkey AIDS first? Also, do monkeys do sodomy? [Clue: yes, they do.]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Think you answered your own question there
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was rhetorical. Just to let creationists know that what's considered "abnormal" is already pre-existing in nature. Which means it's normal. Just like homosexuality and butt-sex.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So is cannibalism, rape, in cest and pedophilia. That's just chimps and bonobo monkeys.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thankfully they're rare traits although a couple of those happen to be far more common among religious people, especially the leaders of the major religions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not all of those are that rare.
Point being just coz monkeys do it doesn't mean we should.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your "point" is moronic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
moronic why?
the guy says it exist in nature so we should get used to it
there is a whole lot of fecked up chit in nature. which bits do we accept and which bits do we leave out?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your argument implies that homosexuality is 'fecked up chit' then - is that a fair assessment?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
nice try.
im simply saying just coz something is acceptble in nature/other species isnt an argument that is viable
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not trying anything, I'm just trying to understand your line of reasoning
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i was addressing a point being made.
my reasoning is simple. the notion of monkeys/primates habits are not a useful indicator to our habits as humans.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wouldn't disagree with that. Not sure how it relates to the OP, but I guess if someone had used that as a position you could take issue with it.
I will add that said point has been explicitly cracked open multiple times on this page
And it relates to one of the comments following the OP, not to the OP itself
comment by tcwmf | Obers Haven (U6489)
posted 3 minutes ago
I really wouldn't conflate homosexuality with cannibalismthat's not the best. I agree with the point that animal behaviour does not justify human behaviour. I don't think we should draw any further conclusions from that particular pathway, except for the idea that there must be another way to justify human behaviour besides looking to nature (and in the process invalidating the 'against nature' argument)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i wasnt conflating it as such. and im certainly not a creationist.
the post i was responding to was saying that if something exist in nature then it is ''normal''. to me thats a messed up approach to the discussion and if anything was simply a dig at religion.
there is a whole lot of fecked up chit in nature. which bits do we accept and which bits do we leave out?
--------
This is all I took issue with and I knew what you meant but I think semantics are important especially when dealing with touchy issues
My point on the religious aspect of this isn't that religion is to blame, it's that religion has been co-opted to validate a messed up viewpoint.
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann (U1270)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann (U1270)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 4 seconds ago
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann (U1270)
posted 56 seconds ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 24 seconds ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 1 hour, 45 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
comment by LustyMonc (U22632)
posted 6 hours, 37 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 49 minutes ago
comment by LustyMonc (U22632)
posted 2 minutes ago
OP, AIDS is just the human version of the monkey (simian) AIDS. Why did your god/God/G-d create monkey AIDS first? Also, do monkeys do sodomy? [Clue: yes, they do.]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Think you answered your own question there
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was rhetorical. Just to let creationists know that what's considered "abnormal" is already pre-existing in nature. Which means it's normal. Just like homosexuality and butt-sex.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So is cannibalism, rape, in cest and pedophilia. That's just chimps and bonobo monkeys.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thankfully they're rare traits although a couple of those happen to be far more common among religious people, especially the leaders of the major religions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not all of those are that rare.
Point being just coz monkeys do it doesn't mean we should.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your "point" is moronic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
moronic why?
the guy says it exist in nature so we should get used to it
there is a whole lot of fecked up chit in nature. which bits do we accept and which bits do we leave out?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your argument implies that homosexuality is 'fecked up chit' then - is that a fair assessment?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
nice try.
im simply saying just coz something is acceptble in nature/other species isnt an argument that is viable
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not trying anything, I'm just trying to understand your line of reasoning
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i was addressing a point being made.
my reasoning is simple. the notion of monkeys/primates habits are not a useful indicator to our habits as humans.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wouldn't disagree with that. Not sure how it relates to the OP, but I guess if someone had used that as a position you could take issue with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wasnt addressing the OP, which did start a useful discussion, it was addressing a point made by an individual poster.
"I wasnt addressing the OP, which did start a useful discussion, it was addressing a point made by an individual poster."
Yes, I see that from from the previous replies
It can be difficult to keep track of what led to the current discussion point in articles with a lot of comments
comment by tcwmf | Obers Haven (U6489)
posted 12 seconds ago
there is a whole lot of fecked up chit in nature. which bits do we accept and which bits do we leave out?
--------
This is all I took issue with and I knew what you meant but I think semantics are important especially when dealing with touchy issues
----------------------------------------------------------------------
ah fair enough. maybe i could have written it better. but the point was that we simply cant use aspects of nature to justify out actions as humans being classed as normal or abnormal
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann (U1270)
posted 19 minutes ago
My point on the religious aspect of this isn't that religion is to blame, it's that religion has been co-opted to validate a messed up viewpoint.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It works both ways, of course.
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 39 minutes ago
comment by Ronald-Royce (U4302)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann (U1270)
posted 5 minutes ago
I'm trying to untangle your logic here, Jinja. Are you using this primates example to support what Mohamed Aboutrika said?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair, what he said might not be acceptable in the west but the country he lives in and a lot of other countries, Muslim or not probably share his views. Even China is against it and that's one of the biggest atheist country in the world. Saying that sometimes you need to be careful what you say to the media as it will be scrutinised to the fullest, especially anything related to LGBT.
In the west, homosexuality and transgenderism etc might be considered as normal and acceptable (and that's only the past 20 years), but in a lot of other countries, they see this as shameful and immoral.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i live in the UK mate
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm referring to the Egyptian guy that made the comment.
comment by Ronald-Royce (U4302)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 39 minutes ago
comment by Ronald-Royce (U4302)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann (U1270)
posted 5 minutes ago
I'm trying to untangle your logic here, Jinja. Are you using this primates example to support what Mohamed Aboutrika said?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair, what he said might not be acceptable in the west but the country he lives in and a lot of other countries, Muslim or not probably share his views. Even China is against it and that's one of the biggest atheist country in the world. Saying that sometimes you need to be careful what you say to the media as it will be scrutinised to the fullest, especially anything related to LGBT.
In the west, homosexuality and transgenderism etc might be considered as normal and acceptable (and that's only the past 20 years), but in a lot of other countries, they see this as shameful and immoral.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i live in the UK mate
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm referring to the Egyptian guy that made the comment.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sign in if you want to comment
beIN: homosexuality is against human nature
Page 11 of 13
9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13
posted on 1/12/21
I wonder what his thoughts are on Gingers?
posted on 1/12/21
I think the point is simply that one shouldn't use animal behaviour to justify human behaviour. That logical train certainly does not extend to 'being gay is against nature and god'.
posted on 1/12/21
comment by Ronald-Royce (U4302)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann (U1270)
posted 5 minutes ago
I'm trying to untangle your logic here, Jinja. Are you using this primates example to support what Mohamed Aboutrika said?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair, what he said might not be acceptable in the west but the country he lives in and a lot of other countries, Muslim or not probably share his views. Even China is against it and that's one of the biggest atheist country in the world. Saying that sometimes you need to be careful what you say to the media as it will be scrutinised to the fullest, especially anything related to LGBT.
In the west, homosexuality and transgenderism etc might be considered as normal and acceptable (and that's only the past 20 years), but in a lot of other countries, they see this as shameful and immoral.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think both your geography and your history might be a little off there.
As pointed out above, at various points through ancient and modern history, societies all over the world have been very accepting of homosexuality and homosexual relationships, including in Islamic states. It isn’t only in the West in the “past 20 years”.
The same can be said of trans history, which documented is 6,500 years old.
posted on 1/12/21
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann (U1270)
posted 41 minutes ago
I'm trying to untangle your logic here, Jinja. Are you using this primates example to support what Mohamed Aboutrika said?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
not really no, i wasnt offering an opinion or support, rather trying to put the whole religion v atheism v science thing into a sort of devils advocate type situation.
similarly the whole monkeys do it so its all goody point made was me asking if we should stop just with one issue
posted on 1/12/21
comment by Ronald-Royce (U4302)
posted 17 minutes ago
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann (U1270)
posted 5 minutes ago
I'm trying to untangle your logic here, Jinja. Are you using this primates example to support what Mohamed Aboutrika said?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair, what he said might not be acceptable in the west but the country he lives in and a lot of other countries, Muslim or not probably share his views. Even China is against it and that's one of the biggest atheist country in the world. Saying that sometimes you need to be careful what you say to the media as it will be scrutinised to the fullest, especially anything related to LGBT.
In the west, homosexuality and transgenderism etc might be considered as normal and acceptable (and that's only the past 20 years), but in a lot of other countries, they see this as shameful and immoral.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So what we're saying is that perception and tolerance or otherwise of homosexuality is driven by societal values, so shouldn't be rationalised by using theistic belief?
posted on 1/12/21
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 1 hour, 45 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
comment by LustyMonc (U22632)
posted 6 hours, 37 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 49 minutes ago
comment by LustyMonc (U22632)
posted 2 minutes ago
OP, AIDS is just the human version of the monkey (simian) AIDS. Why did your god/God/G-d create monkey AIDS first? Also, do monkeys do sodomy? [Clue: yes, they do.]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Think you answered your own question there
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was rhetorical. Just to let creationists know that what's considered "abnormal" is already pre-existing in nature. Which means it's normal. Just like homosexuality and butt-sex.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So is cannibalism, rape, in cest and pedophilia. That's just chimps and bonobo monkeys.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thankfully they're rare traits although a couple of those happen to be far more common among religious people, especially the leaders of the major religions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not all of those are that rare.
Point being just coz monkeys do it doesn't mean we should.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your "point" is moronic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
moronic why?
the guy says it exist in nature so we should get used to it
there is a whole lot of fecked up chit in nature. which bits do we accept and which bits do we leave out?
posted on 1/12/21
Your "critic" is moronic
posted on 1/12/21
comment by Ronald-Royce (U4302)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann (U1270)
posted 5 minutes ago
I'm trying to untangle your logic here, Jinja. Are you using this primates example to support what Mohamed Aboutrika said?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair, what he said might not be acceptable in the west but the country he lives in and a lot of other countries, Muslim or not probably share his views. Even China is against it and that's one of the biggest atheist country in the world. Saying that sometimes you need to be careful what you say to the media as it will be scrutinised to the fullest, especially anything related to LGBT.
In the west, homosexuality and transgenderism etc might be considered as normal and acceptable (and that's only the past 20 years), but in a lot of other countries, they see this as shameful and immoral.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i live in the UK mate
posted on 1/12/21
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 24 seconds ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 1 hour, 45 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
comment by LustyMonc (U22632)
posted 6 hours, 37 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 49 minutes ago
comment by LustyMonc (U22632)
posted 2 minutes ago
OP, AIDS is just the human version of the monkey (simian) AIDS. Why did your god/God/G-d create monkey AIDS first? Also, do monkeys do sodomy? [Clue: yes, they do.]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Think you answered your own question there
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was rhetorical. Just to let creationists know that what's considered "abnormal" is already pre-existing in nature. Which means it's normal. Just like homosexuality and butt-sex.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So is cannibalism, rape, in cest and pedophilia. That's just chimps and bonobo monkeys.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thankfully they're rare traits although a couple of those happen to be far more common among religious people, especially the leaders of the major religions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not all of those are that rare.
Point being just coz monkeys do it doesn't mean we should.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your "point" is moronic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
moronic why?
the guy says it exist in nature so we should get used to it
there is a whole lot of fecked up chit in nature. which bits do we accept and which bits do we leave out?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your argument implies that homosexuality is 'fecked up chit' then - is that a fair assessment?
posted on 1/12/21
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann (U1270)
posted 56 seconds ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 24 seconds ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 1 hour, 45 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
comment by LustyMonc (U22632)
posted 6 hours, 37 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 49 minutes ago
comment by LustyMonc (U22632)
posted 2 minutes ago
OP, AIDS is just the human version of the monkey (simian) AIDS. Why did your god/God/G-d create monkey AIDS first? Also, do monkeys do sodomy? [Clue: yes, they do.]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Think you answered your own question there
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was rhetorical. Just to let creationists know that what's considered "abnormal" is already pre-existing in nature. Which means it's normal. Just like homosexuality and butt-sex.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So is cannibalism, rape, in cest and pedophilia. That's just chimps and bonobo monkeys.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thankfully they're rare traits although a couple of those happen to be far more common among religious people, especially the leaders of the major religions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not all of those are that rare.
Point being just coz monkeys do it doesn't mean we should.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your "point" is moronic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
moronic why?
the guy says it exist in nature so we should get used to it
there is a whole lot of fecked up chit in nature. which bits do we accept and which bits do we leave out?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your argument implies that homosexuality is 'fecked up chit' then - is that a fair assessment?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
nice try.
im simply saying just coz something is acceptble in nature/other species isnt an argument that is viable
posted on 1/12/21
I really wouldn't conflate homosexuality with cannibalism that's not the best. I agree with the point that animal behaviour does not justify human behaviour. I don't think we should draw any further conclusions from that particular pathway, except for the idea that there must be another way to justify human behaviour besides looking to nature (and in the process invalidating the 'against nature' argument)
posted on 1/12/21
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 4 seconds ago
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann (U1270)
posted 56 seconds ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 24 seconds ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 1 hour, 45 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
comment by LustyMonc (U22632)
posted 6 hours, 37 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 49 minutes ago
comment by LustyMonc (U22632)
posted 2 minutes ago
OP, AIDS is just the human version of the monkey (simian) AIDS. Why did your god/God/G-d create monkey AIDS first? Also, do monkeys do sodomy? [Clue: yes, they do.]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Think you answered your own question there
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was rhetorical. Just to let creationists know that what's considered "abnormal" is already pre-existing in nature. Which means it's normal. Just like homosexuality and butt-sex.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So is cannibalism, rape, in cest and pedophilia. That's just chimps and bonobo monkeys.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thankfully they're rare traits although a couple of those happen to be far more common among religious people, especially the leaders of the major religions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not all of those are that rare.
Point being just coz monkeys do it doesn't mean we should.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your "point" is moronic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
moronic why?
the guy says it exist in nature so we should get used to it
there is a whole lot of fecked up chit in nature. which bits do we accept and which bits do we leave out?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your argument implies that homosexuality is 'fecked up chit' then - is that a fair assessment?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
nice try.
im simply saying just coz something is acceptble in nature/other species isnt an argument that is viable
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not trying anything, I'm just trying to understand your line of reasoning
posted on 1/12/21
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann (U1270)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 4 seconds ago
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann (U1270)
posted 56 seconds ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 24 seconds ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 1 hour, 45 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
comment by LustyMonc (U22632)
posted 6 hours, 37 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 49 minutes ago
comment by LustyMonc (U22632)
posted 2 minutes ago
OP, AIDS is just the human version of the monkey (simian) AIDS. Why did your god/God/G-d create monkey AIDS first? Also, do monkeys do sodomy? [Clue: yes, they do.]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Think you answered your own question there
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was rhetorical. Just to let creationists know that what's considered "abnormal" is already pre-existing in nature. Which means it's normal. Just like homosexuality and butt-sex.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So is cannibalism, rape, in cest and pedophilia. That's just chimps and bonobo monkeys.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thankfully they're rare traits although a couple of those happen to be far more common among religious people, especially the leaders of the major religions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not all of those are that rare.
Point being just coz monkeys do it doesn't mean we should.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your "point" is moronic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
moronic why?
the guy says it exist in nature so we should get used to it
there is a whole lot of fecked up chit in nature. which bits do we accept and which bits do we leave out?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your argument implies that homosexuality is 'fecked up chit' then - is that a fair assessment?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
nice try.
im simply saying just coz something is acceptble in nature/other species isnt an argument that is viable
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not trying anything, I'm just trying to understand your line of reasoning
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i was addressing a point being made.
my reasoning is simple. the notion of monkeys/primates habits are not a useful indicator to our habits as humans.
posted on 1/12/21
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann (U1270)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 4 seconds ago
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann (U1270)
posted 56 seconds ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 24 seconds ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 1 hour, 45 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
comment by LustyMonc (U22632)
posted 6 hours, 37 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 49 minutes ago
comment by LustyMonc (U22632)
posted 2 minutes ago
OP, AIDS is just the human version of the monkey (simian) AIDS. Why did your god/God/G-d create monkey AIDS first? Also, do monkeys do sodomy? [Clue: yes, they do.]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Think you answered your own question there
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was rhetorical. Just to let creationists know that what's considered "abnormal" is already pre-existing in nature. Which means it's normal. Just like homosexuality and butt-sex.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So is cannibalism, rape, in cest and pedophilia. That's just chimps and bonobo monkeys.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thankfully they're rare traits although a couple of those happen to be far more common among religious people, especially the leaders of the major religions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not all of those are that rare.
Point being just coz monkeys do it doesn't mean we should.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your "point" is moronic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
moronic why?
the guy says it exist in nature so we should get used to it
there is a whole lot of fecked up chit in nature. which bits do we accept and which bits do we leave out?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your argument implies that homosexuality is 'fecked up chit' then - is that a fair assessment?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
nice try.
im simply saying just coz something is acceptble in nature/other species isnt an argument that is viable
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not trying anything, I'm just trying to understand your line of reasoning
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i was addressing a point being made.
my reasoning is simple. the notion of monkeys/primates habits are not a useful indicator to our habits as humans.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wouldn't disagree with that. Not sure how it relates to the OP, but I guess if someone had used that as a position you could take issue with it.
posted on 1/12/21
I will add that said point has been explicitly cracked open multiple times on this page
posted on 1/12/21
And it relates to one of the comments following the OP, not to the OP itself
posted on 1/12/21
comment by tcwmf | Obers Haven (U6489)
posted 3 minutes ago
I really wouldn't conflate homosexuality with cannibalismthat's not the best. I agree with the point that animal behaviour does not justify human behaviour. I don't think we should draw any further conclusions from that particular pathway, except for the idea that there must be another way to justify human behaviour besides looking to nature (and in the process invalidating the 'against nature' argument)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i wasnt conflating it as such. and im certainly not a creationist.
the post i was responding to was saying that if something exist in nature then it is ''normal''. to me thats a messed up approach to the discussion and if anything was simply a dig at religion.
posted on 1/12/21
there is a whole lot of fecked up chit in nature. which bits do we accept and which bits do we leave out?
--------
This is all I took issue with and I knew what you meant but I think semantics are important especially when dealing with touchy issues
posted on 1/12/21
My point on the religious aspect of this isn't that religion is to blame, it's that religion has been co-opted to validate a messed up viewpoint.
posted on 1/12/21
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann (U1270)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann (U1270)
posted 28 seconds ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 4 seconds ago
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann (U1270)
posted 56 seconds ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 24 seconds ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 47 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Two Balls, One Saka (U19684)
posted 1 hour, 45 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 1 hour, 11 minutes ago
comment by LustyMonc (U22632)
posted 6 hours, 37 minutes ago
comment by it'sonlyagame (U6426)
posted 49 minutes ago
comment by LustyMonc (U22632)
posted 2 minutes ago
OP, AIDS is just the human version of the monkey (simian) AIDS. Why did your god/God/G-d create monkey AIDS first? Also, do monkeys do sodomy? [Clue: yes, they do.]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Think you answered your own question there
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It was rhetorical. Just to let creationists know that what's considered "abnormal" is already pre-existing in nature. Which means it's normal. Just like homosexuality and butt-sex.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So is cannibalism, rape, in cest and pedophilia. That's just chimps and bonobo monkeys.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thankfully they're rare traits although a couple of those happen to be far more common among religious people, especially the leaders of the major religions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not all of those are that rare.
Point being just coz monkeys do it doesn't mean we should.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your "point" is moronic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
moronic why?
the guy says it exist in nature so we should get used to it
there is a whole lot of fecked up chit in nature. which bits do we accept and which bits do we leave out?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Your argument implies that homosexuality is 'fecked up chit' then - is that a fair assessment?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
nice try.
im simply saying just coz something is acceptble in nature/other species isnt an argument that is viable
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not trying anything, I'm just trying to understand your line of reasoning
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i was addressing a point being made.
my reasoning is simple. the notion of monkeys/primates habits are not a useful indicator to our habits as humans.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wouldn't disagree with that. Not sure how it relates to the OP, but I guess if someone had used that as a position you could take issue with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I wasnt addressing the OP, which did start a useful discussion, it was addressing a point made by an individual poster.
posted on 1/12/21
"I wasnt addressing the OP, which did start a useful discussion, it was addressing a point made by an individual poster."
Yes, I see that from from the previous replies
It can be difficult to keep track of what led to the current discussion point in articles with a lot of comments
posted on 1/12/21
comment by tcwmf | Obers Haven (U6489)
posted 12 seconds ago
there is a whole lot of fecked up chit in nature. which bits do we accept and which bits do we leave out?
--------
This is all I took issue with and I knew what you meant but I think semantics are important especially when dealing with touchy issues
----------------------------------------------------------------------
ah fair enough. maybe i could have written it better. but the point was that we simply cant use aspects of nature to justify out actions as humans being classed as normal or abnormal
posted on 1/12/21
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann (U1270)
posted 19 minutes ago
My point on the religious aspect of this isn't that religion is to blame, it's that religion has been co-opted to validate a messed up viewpoint.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It works both ways, of course.
posted on 1/12/21
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 39 minutes ago
comment by Ronald-Royce (U4302)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann (U1270)
posted 5 minutes ago
I'm trying to untangle your logic here, Jinja. Are you using this primates example to support what Mohamed Aboutrika said?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair, what he said might not be acceptable in the west but the country he lives in and a lot of other countries, Muslim or not probably share his views. Even China is against it and that's one of the biggest atheist country in the world. Saying that sometimes you need to be careful what you say to the media as it will be scrutinised to the fullest, especially anything related to LGBT.
In the west, homosexuality and transgenderism etc might be considered as normal and acceptable (and that's only the past 20 years), but in a lot of other countries, they see this as shameful and immoral.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i live in the UK mate
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm referring to the Egyptian guy that made the comment.
posted on 1/12/21
comment by Ronald-Royce (U4302)
posted 20 minutes ago
comment by Jinja Ninja (U19849)
posted 39 minutes ago
comment by Ronald-Royce (U4302)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Der Post Nearly Mann (U1270)
posted 5 minutes ago
I'm trying to untangle your logic here, Jinja. Are you using this primates example to support what Mohamed Aboutrika said?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair, what he said might not be acceptable in the west but the country he lives in and a lot of other countries, Muslim or not probably share his views. Even China is against it and that's one of the biggest atheist country in the world. Saying that sometimes you need to be careful what you say to the media as it will be scrutinised to the fullest, especially anything related to LGBT.
In the west, homosexuality and transgenderism etc might be considered as normal and acceptable (and that's only the past 20 years), but in a lot of other countries, they see this as shameful and immoral.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i live in the UK mate
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm referring to the Egyptian guy that made the comment.
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