Yeah of course there are lots of other factors and the club have been pretty terrible at identifying players and getting them to work but pressure is a part of it. It’s why so many go off and do so much better. Antony has repeatedly stated he was so miserable at United and the pressure got to him whereas at Betis he is free to enjoy his football. Look at Rashford, he looks so miserable at United, the pressure the club put on him being the poster boy put so much unnecessary attention on him and the way the media and government hassled him over the school meals, this is all magnified because of who he plays for. United fill the vast majority of the sports pages because we are the biggest club domestically, even if we are dogs-t right now.

I think because of the intense speculation, the pressure on players at Utd works both ways depending on the situation.

So when we are struggling, and low on confidence, it can almost feel more difficult to overcome this. But at the same time, when we are playing well and in a strong position, the players can almost gain a confidence from being 'top dog' and the pressure to need to perform is an easier one to handle.

Ultimately it's all in the head, and what we really need are mentally strong players - that is something that needs to come from both the manager, but players need to have it in them also - some have it naturally but a fair number don't and we seem to lack those natural leaders currently.

What comes first, the pressure or the performance?

I think your signings have been poor, they struggle, the scrutiny is high and then the pressure piles up, especially if they cost the earth.

United are not the only big club but they seem to be the only one continually trotting out this reason for failure, because so many have failed.

Antony simply wasnt good enough. He's found his level, where the pressure happens to be less, but fundamentally he's able to deliver because it is easier to do so in that league.

He might not be good enough but he was clearly playing far worse than he is capable of as we could see when he first joined and was pretty good. Same with Hojlund, probably not good enough but he showed in his first season far more than we saw for the past year where he's been terrible and the media have been on his back constantly. Far more than say a player like Grealish who's been useless for City for a long time but because fans aren't really that engaged with City the media don't bother putting pressure on him because it doesn't sell.

I agree there are other factors as to why players have failed at United but you can't ignore the pressure we're under, especially during the post Ferguson years where the media are lapping up our demise.

comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 7 minutes ago
I think because of the intense speculation, the pressure on players at Utd works both ways depending on the situation.

So when we are struggling, and low on confidence, it can almost feel more difficult to overcome this. But at the same time, when we are playing well and in a strong position, the players can almost gain a confidence from being 'top dog' and the pressure to need to perform is an easier one to handle.

Ultimately it's all in the head, and what we really need are mentally strong players - that is something that needs to come from both the manager, but players need to have it in them also - some have it naturally but a fair number don't and we seem to lack those natural leaders currently.
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Agreed.

Utd under Fergie didnt have this issue and more often than not the opposition were beaten even before they stepped on to the pitch.

The dynamic is so different now, and the fact that it's United makes little difference to the opposition, and every thing has to be earned.

I feel sorry for the likes of Rasmus and Garnacho because so much has been expected of them while they are still developing and they have struggled to improve, but I think that would be the same if you threw them into the Spurs team. We have 19 and 20 year olds who are being carefully introduced over time, not expected to be the answer to our problems

The pressure on these 2 is not just because its United but because sooo much is being asked of them and, consequently, a lot is expected of them. I don't think this works at any club, even a very well run club. Can you imagine Rasmus leading the line at City?

comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 2 minutes ago
He might not be good enough but he was clearly playing far worse than he is capable of as we could see when he first joined and was pretty good. Same with Hojlund, probably not good enough but he showed in his first season far more than we saw for the past year where he's been terrible and the media have been on his back constantly. Far more than say a player like Grealish who's been useless for City for a long time but because fans aren't really that engaged with City the media don't bother putting pressure on him because it doesn't sell.

I agree there are other factors as to why players have failed at United but you can't ignore the pressure we're under, especially during the post Ferguson years where the media are lapping up our demise.
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Grealish's demise is as well documented as anyones.

I think fans will tend to read or have their feeds filled with their own teams news, so perhaps get a slightly distorted idea of what's being 'printed'

There's plenty written about Grealish on the web, Even the BBC have 3 pieces in a month about what his options are, how he's not part of their CWC squad, what his future holds.

Not sure you will find more written about Rasmus than Grealish.

Comapre Rasmus and McAtee. Same age. Look how City use him and how Utd use Rasmus. Even well run, smoothly operating City don't thrown talented kids in and rely on them and that will be partially because of the pressure and expectation (and need) to deliver, but mainly because they aint ready or yet good enough to fulfil that role.

To be succinct I think a lot of Utds failed players have been thrown in at the deepend and because Utd are such a big club that deep end is very deep. But the fundamental issue is that it's the deep end, and few young/new players will flourish in that situation.

Others have simply been not good enough and never able to meet the very high expectations because of this, which are probably higher and harder to achieve because its United

"With social media, it’s United. You can have the best game and you’ll still get criticism, and my family is reading that.

"It’s hard to explain to them. It’s literally impossible to explain and make them understand that the club is THAT big. You don’t realise how big the club is until you actually play there.

"100 per cent [it's the hardest club to play for in the world], 100 per cent. I didn’t realise how big the club was."

"I was ignoring my family, I wasn’t really speaking to them. They were really worried about me, my friends were as well to be fair. They could see it. It wasn’t right.

"Yeah I did [speak to someone}. It was Mick Farrell at United. He was the psychologist there, I’ve known him since I was like 15. He used to bring me in all the time.

"When I wasn’t moving out of my apartment, I was literally staying in bed. He used to turn up at like 9 o'clock or something at my bedside. Trying to do something like 'let's go on a walk, let's go for a coffee'."

Brandon Williams, at United since he was in diapers, still didn't have a clue about the kind of pressure United players face until he broke into the first team. And it ruined him to the extent that he couldn't leave his home. And we've watched what's happened since.

We've seen players completely buckle. The latest was probably Bayindir, a highly rated international goalkeeper with over 100 appearances for Fenerbahce (hardly renowned for being an easy place to play...).

He walked out onto the OT pitch for his PL debut against Newcastle and you could see it in his face before the game even kicked off. He was a complete nervous wreck and turned in a disastrous performance.

In the days leading up to the game, one of the biggest stories *in world sport* had been Onana's disaster against Lyon and whether he'd be dropped. Headline story on every newspaper back page and sports website in the world. Next to nothing else under discussion on social media.

There's really only one club in the world that that happens at to that degree.

We have to accept that the calibre of 'established' player has been on the decline post-SAF, which has made it more difficult for younger players coming into the squad to develop, with too much being asked of them too soon.

Bruno gets criticism, but honestly, if he was at any of the other top clubs, he would look even better and his stats would look amazing. Those that say he's not really that good etc, for me it's just blinkered of a player at a struggling club.

But there is no-one else established who has been of his quality - some have been 'ok', but not what we need at Utd. Our expensive signings in recent years have been average at best, and when you don't have a good calibre of player, you will always struggle.

People will talk about how players have moved on to other clubs and done better, but honestly, they have not reached a standard where I have thought, yeah look totally amazing.
Elanga had a good season, but honestly, i don't think he is going to be mega-brilliant. Rashford looked better at Villa, but isn't a week in week out consistent top player. Antony can be of a decent level but nothing special. I feel similar with Sancho and Mount Maguire solid but not spectacular. Martinez another.

Established players, most of whom we have brought in, and none of them have truly made the grade. We have become so use to the situation that we are desperate to find positives about them, but let's face it, they don't make the grade. So our youngsters will have no chance when they start off as being better that what is established already or not far off.

Nacho is young enough to improve but he has suffered as one of those younger players I mentioned above and it's all gone pear-shaped now. Hojlund may not be brilliant, but he has had no chance with us to become a better player with the way we have used him.
I worry about the likes of Mainoo who could be great for us in the future. The same with Yoro, Heaven and Amad.

Soz for the rant, mediocrity gets to you sometimes

comment by EVERYTHING’S POTE! (U17054)
posted 16 minutes ago
"With social media, it’s United. You can have the best game and you’ll still get criticism, and my family is reading that.

"It’s hard to explain to them. It’s literally impossible to explain and make them understand that the club is THAT big. You don’t realise how big the club is until you actually play there.

"100 per cent [it's the hardest club to play for in the world], 100 per cent. I didn’t realise how big the club was."

"I was ignoring my family, I wasn’t really speaking to them. They were really worried about me, my friends were as well to be fair. They could see it. It wasn’t right.

"Yeah I did [speak to someone}. It was Mick Farrell at United. He was the psychologist there, I’ve known him since I was like 15. He used to bring me in all the time.

"When I wasn’t moving out of my apartment, I was literally staying in bed. He used to turn up at like 9 o'clock or something at my bedside. Trying to do something like 'let's go on a walk, let's go for a coffee'."

Brandon Williams, at United since he was in diapers, still didn't have a clue about the kind of pressure United players face until he broke into the first team. And it ruined him to the extent that he couldn't leave his home. And we've watched what's happened since.

We've seen players completely buckle. The latest was probably Bayindir, a highly rated international goalkeeper with over 100 appearances for Fenerbahce (hardly renowned for being an easy place to play...).

He walked out onto the OT pitch for his PL debut against Newcastle and you could see it in his face before the game even kicked off. He was a complete nervous wreck and turned in a disastrous performance.

In the days leading up to the game, one of the biggest stories *in world sport* had been Onana's disaster against Lyon and whether he'd be dropped. Headline story on every newspaper back page and sports website in the world. Next to nothing else under discussion on social media.

There's really only one club in the world that that happens at to that degree.
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I'm not saying there is no pressure and if you want to push the view that there's no more pressure in the world than at Utd then fine, I disagree. All those highest level of clubs have massive pressure that can make or break a player.

My main point is that we all accept there is heightened pressure at Utd as there is LFC. Therefore it is how the club deals with that, and how players are helped to deal with that.

You don't expect experienced players like Casemiro to come in and crumble under pressure and he didnt. Bruno cam in and did well and have maintained levels most of the time.

But if you bring in young players, from weaker leagues after a break out season, spend massive sums on them and throw them in the deep end then they will likely fail regardless, especially if they are not going into a settled, functioning team, but are actually being expected to be hitting the ground running and hitting the heights quickly.

Rasmus should be a 2nd or 3rd choice, learning his trade behind an established front man, getting minutes here and there and a few starts. He has failed because he has been asked to do what he is not yet capable of or ready to do, and because it's Utd there is huge scrutiny. But the negativity of that scrutiny, the pressure that brings is because he is understandably struggling to lead United line in a new league, as a kid. He is far more likely to succeed, at Utd with all that pressure, if he was playing second fiddle to someone with experience, able to learn his trade and develop.

Pressure may be higher at United but this is not new, but its the clubs failure to properly manage this. The problem is not that there is massive pressure, its that the club have seemed to ignore this in how they have made their choices in transfers and the composition and management of the squad.

comment by EVERYTHING’S POTE! (U17054)
posted 43 minutes ago
"With social media, it’s United. You can have the best game and you’ll still get criticism, and my family is reading that.

"It’s hard to explain to them. It’s literally impossible to explain and make them understand that the club is THAT big. You don’t realise how big the club is until you actually play there.

"100 per cent [it's the hardest club to play for in the world], 100 per cent. I didn’t realise how big the club was."

"I was ignoring my family, I wasn’t really speaking to them. They were really worried about me, my friends were as well to be fair. They could see it. It wasn’t right.

"Yeah I did [speak to someone}. It was Mick Farrell at United. He was the psychologist there, I’ve known him since I was like 15. He used to bring me in all the time.

"When I wasn’t moving out of my apartment, I was literally staying in bed. He used to turn up at like 9 o'clock or something at my bedside. Trying to do something like 'let's go on a walk, let's go for a coffee'."

Brandon Williams, at United since he was in diapers, still didn't have a clue about the kind of pressure United players face until he broke into the first team. And it ruined him to the extent that he couldn't leave his home. And we've watched what's happened since.

We've seen players completely buckle. The latest was probably Bayindir, a highly rated international goalkeeper with over 100 appearances for Fenerbahce (hardly renowned for being an easy place to play...).

He walked out onto the OT pitch for his PL debut against Newcastle and you could see it in his face before the game even kicked off. He was a complete nervous wreck and turned in a disastrous performance.

In the days leading up to the game, one of the biggest stories *in world sport* had been Onana's disaster against Lyon and whether he'd be dropped. Headline story on every newspaper back page and sports website in the world. Next to nothing else under discussion on social media.

There's really only one club in the world that that happens at to that degree.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There’s not a player on the planet that has had the ridiculously unfair scrutiny that Harry Maguire has had and it’s because he plays for United.

He was getting booed by England fans ffs despite being our best defender and one of the very best to do it in and England shirt, and it was because of his form for United.

Maybe if Slabhead's forehead wasn't so large he might not got as much slack.

Maguire was booed because he'd had a dreadful season and many felt that his form did not merit a selection.

I didnt think he should have been playing given his poor form and i dont give a tossss who he plays for.

I don't think Henderson should be anywhere near the England squad and he plays for Ajax. Henderson was also booed for England under Southgate when a Liverpool player, largely because his form and skill set is often criticised.

TAA gets as much press as anyone. Sterling has also had similar treatment at his peak. Kane is scrutinised to the Nth degree.

The highest profile players at the highest profile clubs all get it the same, and some get picked on a bit more but that is not unique to Utd players.

And none of those players got anywhere near the scrutiny Slabhead got. Saka, Rashford and Sancho got awful abuse after their penalty misses largely because of the colour of their skin, but guess who 2 of those play for?

comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 13 minutes ago
And none of those players got anywhere near the scrutiny Slabhead got. Saka, Rashford and Sancho got awful abuse after their penalty misses largely because of the colour of their skin, but guess who 2 of those play for?
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It's a very flimsy narrative you're trying to push and you are ignoring lots of factors and concluding "its because they pay for United"

Liverpool fans will tell you the likes of TAA get just as much scrutiny and unfair comment as anyone, and i'd agree

Where have I ignored other factors? I’ve literally stated several times to you that there are other factors that contribute.

comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 4 hours, 48 minutes ago
scholayScholes

Yes he did ok (his actual stats were played 53, scored 3 and assisted 4) but we also weren't in a place to give him the time to develop and felt that moving him on was best for everybody which I still think was the right call.
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We are never is a place to give a chance to our players. Till we get relegated. We are always acting like we can afford short cuts to ultimate success buying average players like it isn't cheaper to keep ours. "Manchester United Pressure" the reason to spending every year to less than zero production.

Liverpool fans will tell you the likes of TAA get just as much scrutiny and unfair comment as anyone
———


Imagine using the fanbase with the biggest victim complex on the planet to prove a point.

comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 31 minutes ago
Where have I ignored other factors? I’ve literally stated several times to you that there are other factors that contribute.
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Ok, may be not ignoring them, but giving them little weight.

I think there are many other factors that contribute far more than just the big club pressure, and the contrast between how new signings settle in, contribute and developed under Fergie, compared to now, is decent evidence that they are not being set up to be successful now. Whereas that is entirely different to when you were well run and successful, when the same pressure applied. Players came in, kids came through and most flourished in a successful team.

Now it's a mess, the team needs a lot of change, the tactics are all new, the coach has changed, the vibe is poor - how's anyone going to flourish in that environment? The opposite of anyone joining similarly massive Liverpool right now and i think most would agree that Wirtz will shine brighter at LFC than if he had joined Utd right now.

comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 3 minutes ago
Liverpool fans will tell you the likes of TAA get just as much scrutiny and unfair comment as anyone
———


Imagine using the fanbase with the biggest victim complex on the planet to prove a point.
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You lot are trying to match them with the " but we get scrutinised so much, its unfair " excuse

We give plenty of youth a chance, but they ideally need to be a level or 2 above what Elanga was for us.

comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Darren The King Fletcher (U10026)
posted 3 minutes ago
Liverpool fans will tell you the likes of TAA get just as much scrutiny and unfair comment as anyone
———


Imagine using the fanbase with the biggest victim complex on the planet to prove a point.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

You lot are trying to match them with the "but we get scrutinised so much, its unfair " excuse
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I haven’t seen anyone complaining about it. Just pointing out the difference.

It comes with the territory being the best supported club around the globe, and I think United fans would accept it for what it is.

comment by manutd1982 (U6633)
posted 17 minutes ago
We give plenty of youth a chance, but they ideally need to be a level or 2 above what Elanga was for us.
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If anything, the youth have been asked to prove themselves too quickly, too soon.............because the established players aren't good enough..........

Its interesting because Fergie really did install that "we're United, we're the biggest club in the world" attitude and that fact was used to maintain standards. That it is the highest privilege and honour and this should inspire you and drive you.

Now adays it seems like its become a bit of a burden. Is that due to the weak mindsets of some modern players, or the 24/7 nature of the coverage and comment on social media. I certainly think these factors contribute.

I don't understand why some players even bother with social media. They don't need to promote themselves, they just open themselves up for abuse because whoever it is and whatever its is, people get trolled and abused .

Because they’re mainly kids and kids all use social media.