You said he didn't mean it though. If he didn't mean it it's not deliberate. If it's not deliberate it's not against the laws of the game.
You said he didn't mean it though. If he didn't mean it it's not deliberate. If it's not deliberate it's not against the laws of the game.
------------------------------------
it is deemed deliberate because he has raised his arms unnecessarily, and then the ball has struck them.
he therefore made a deliberate act (raising his arms) which then caused the contact, although the contact itself wasn't deliberate.
you can't make a slide like that without putting your arms up. It was NEVER a penalty. If it had been given to City, all the Liverpool fans would be bleating about bad refs this morning. It was a piece of good luck, should never have happened - accept it and move on.
Penalties get (rightly) given all the time when the player doesn't deliberately slap the ball with their hand.
Deflections off thighs that then hit the arm when a player tries to flick one past a defender. Players looking completely the other way but the ball hits an arm that isn't tight on the body.
Every week.
Deliberately making a goalkeeper save isn't the only instance when pens are given for handball.
And the ref is right. Sticking your arms up like you're dancing at a nightclub is tempting fate. And fate struck. his arm.
And the ref is right. Sticking your arms up like you're dancing at a nightclub is tempting fate. And fate struck. his arm.
-----
but not deliberate
If that happens in any game in world football, the attacking team would be screaming for a peno! Fact!
The ref gets one look at it and he made his decision!
And the ref is right. Sticking your arms up like you're dancing at a nightclub is tempting fate. And fate struck. his arm.
-----
but not deliberate
------------------------------
comment by VictorGooner™ (U2027)
-------------
The rule is deliberate handball
Having your arms in a particular position is besides the point.
Breakdown the rule - A deliberate attempt to handle the ball with hand or arm.
You're basically saying that players are at risk because of their stance but that doesn't mean it's deliberate.
That's like saying, don't get into a car as their is a possibility of crashing
>>Having your arms in a particular position is besides the point.
since when?
that's almost always the deciding factor.
at the end of the day if your arms aren't tucked in tight to your body and the ball hits one of them, a penalty is almost always given.
Seriously - you are all missing the point. The rule book actually leaves this open to the referees interpretation but referees are guided by firstly, the distance between player kicking the ball and the player defending and the 'natural position'. Micah Richards had his arms in the air - but not outstretched - there is a difference - and his arms were up because he was stretching - it's called balance!!!!! You cannot punish that, especially when it happens as a result of a ricochet off of his own leg (in other words he made a perfectly good block) and from a shot just 3 metres in front of him.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2092090/Micah-Richards-says-Phil-Dowds-penalty-decision-poor.html
Look at the picture:
Look at the proximity of the ball striker
Look at the raised arm, protecting his face.
Its not as if his hands are out wide or above his head to make himself an even bigger target to get past.
The fact it deflected is what makes the decision a joke, added to the fact it was almost point blank, and a fiercely hit shot...defo ball to hand and not a penalty in my book
>>Look at the picture:
that's what made my mind up.
balance is achieved by having your arms out either side
both his arms are fully extented outward and pointed to the right
He was a silly billy and paid the price
It was an excellent save mind
comment by redconn > (U5676)
posted 0 seconds ago
>>Look at the picture:
that's what made my mind up.
balance is achieved by having your arms out either side
both his arms are fully extented outward and pointed to the right
He was a silly billy and paid the price
---------------------
you balance like you say when you walk tightropes you @#??
>>Having your arms in a particular position is besides the point.
since when?
-----------
since no player can play a game football with his hands tucked at his sides
you balance like you say when you walk tightropes you @#??
------------------------------
when yopu run out of arguments, resort to insults.
step 1 in the 5 year old's guide to debating
it's called humour not insults - please take it that way
With the benefit of a dslow motion replay, you can see that it came off his knee and hit his arm.
He couldn't have done anything about it, however it was right in front of the goal, the deflection off his arm took it in a completely different direction and to be honest you will see those given 9 times out of 10 in any league in the world. It's harsh on the lad, but that's just how it goes.
You can talk about luck, bad decisions and the 'rub of the green' all day. De Jong's goal for example. The fact he slipped allowed for the curl that put it past Reina. No way he meant that. Is that bad luck for Liverpool? or is that a bit of the 'rub of the green' for City?
You don't always get fair results in football, but at the end of the day, Liverpool were the better side over two legs and deserved to go through. Mancini can whine all he wants, but he know's that's the case.
I really don't get the counter argument
a fully extended arm completely on the wrong side of your body that ends up blocking a shot is a guilty arm.
a fully extended arm completely on the wrong side of your body that ends up blocking a shot is a guilty arm.
----------
blocking a shot means that the ball struck the arm and not vice versa
That's not deliberate
>>That's not deliberate
I don't see the relevance that he didn't deliberately deflect it onto his arm.
He deliberately stuck it an unnatural direction and it got hit. It's his fault as his arm shouldn't have been anywhere near that side of his body, fully extended, parralel to the ground and it the way of a player shooting.
According to the letter of the law there is a good argument for it not being a pen.
I just cannot see any referee not giving that. Every day of the week, he's gonna point at the spot.
Its the deflection that is the issue....where ever your arm is, if a hard hot shot bounces off your shin and bounces up and hits your arm then that is almost impossible to avoid.
Thats what made the pen SO unfair IMO
>.that is almost impossible to avoid.
that bit is simple
keep your left arm on the left side of your body and it won't get struck by a ball to your right.
I do the opposite. but I'm a keeper so it's OK
When I first saw it I though Agger had hit it high and hard and it was a peno as I did not see it hit his knee first. I can understand why he gave it.
Saw the replay and now I don't think it was.
Bottom line is do I care?
Nope
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The Handball Rule
Page 2 of 3
posted on 26/1/12
You said he didn't mean it though. If he didn't mean it it's not deliberate. If it's not deliberate it's not against the laws of the game.
posted on 26/1/12
You said he didn't mean it though. If he didn't mean it it's not deliberate. If it's not deliberate it's not against the laws of the game.
------------------------------------
it is deemed deliberate because he has raised his arms unnecessarily, and then the ball has struck them.
he therefore made a deliberate act (raising his arms) which then caused the contact, although the contact itself wasn't deliberate.
posted on 26/1/12
you can't make a slide like that without putting your arms up. It was NEVER a penalty. If it had been given to City, all the Liverpool fans would be bleating about bad refs this morning. It was a piece of good luck, should never have happened - accept it and move on.
posted on 26/1/12
Penalties get (rightly) given all the time when the player doesn't deliberately slap the ball with their hand.
Deflections off thighs that then hit the arm when a player tries to flick one past a defender. Players looking completely the other way but the ball hits an arm that isn't tight on the body.
Every week.
Deliberately making a goalkeeper save isn't the only instance when pens are given for handball.
And the ref is right. Sticking your arms up like you're dancing at a nightclub is tempting fate. And fate struck. his arm.
posted on 26/1/12
And the ref is right. Sticking your arms up like you're dancing at a nightclub is tempting fate. And fate struck. his arm.
-----
but not deliberate
posted on 26/1/12
If that happens in any game in world football, the attacking team would be screaming for a peno! Fact!
The ref gets one look at it and he made his decision!
posted on 26/1/12
And the ref is right. Sticking your arms up like you're dancing at a nightclub is tempting fate. And fate struck. his arm.
-----
but not deliberate
------------------------------
posted on 26/1/12
comment by VictorGooner™ (U2027)
-------------
The rule is deliberate handball
Having your arms in a particular position is besides the point.
Breakdown the rule - A deliberate attempt to handle the ball with hand or arm.
You're basically saying that players are at risk because of their stance but that doesn't mean it's deliberate.
That's like saying, don't get into a car as their is a possibility of crashing
posted on 26/1/12
>>Having your arms in a particular position is besides the point.
since when?
that's almost always the deciding factor.
at the end of the day if your arms aren't tucked in tight to your body and the ball hits one of them, a penalty is almost always given.
posted on 26/1/12
Seriously - you are all missing the point. The rule book actually leaves this open to the referees interpretation but referees are guided by firstly, the distance between player kicking the ball and the player defending and the 'natural position'. Micah Richards had his arms in the air - but not outstretched - there is a difference - and his arms were up because he was stretching - it's called balance!!!!! You cannot punish that, especially when it happens as a result of a ricochet off of his own leg (in other words he made a perfectly good block) and from a shot just 3 metres in front of him.
posted on 26/1/12
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2092090/Micah-Richards-says-Phil-Dowds-penalty-decision-poor.html
Look at the picture:
Look at the proximity of the ball striker
Look at the raised arm, protecting his face.
Its not as if his hands are out wide or above his head to make himself an even bigger target to get past.
The fact it deflected is what makes the decision a joke, added to the fact it was almost point blank, and a fiercely hit shot...defo ball to hand and not a penalty in my book
posted on 26/1/12
>>Look at the picture:
that's what made my mind up.
balance is achieved by having your arms out either side
both his arms are fully extented outward and pointed to the right
He was a silly billy and paid the price
posted on 26/1/12
It was an excellent save mind
posted on 26/1/12
comment by redconn > (U5676)
posted 0 seconds ago
>>Look at the picture:
that's what made my mind up.
balance is achieved by having your arms out either side
both his arms are fully extented outward and pointed to the right
He was a silly billy and paid the price
---------------------
you balance like you say when you walk tightropes you @#??
posted on 26/1/12
>>Having your arms in a particular position is besides the point.
since when?
-----------
since no player can play a game football with his hands tucked at his sides
posted on 26/1/12
you balance like you say when you walk tightropes you @#??
------------------------------
when yopu run out of arguments, resort to insults.
step 1 in the 5 year old's guide to debating
posted on 26/1/12
it's called humour not insults - please take it that way
posted on 26/1/12
With the benefit of a dslow motion replay, you can see that it came off his knee and hit his arm.
He couldn't have done anything about it, however it was right in front of the goal, the deflection off his arm took it in a completely different direction and to be honest you will see those given 9 times out of 10 in any league in the world. It's harsh on the lad, but that's just how it goes.
You can talk about luck, bad decisions and the 'rub of the green' all day. De Jong's goal for example. The fact he slipped allowed for the curl that put it past Reina. No way he meant that. Is that bad luck for Liverpool? or is that a bit of the 'rub of the green' for City?
You don't always get fair results in football, but at the end of the day, Liverpool were the better side over two legs and deserved to go through. Mancini can whine all he wants, but he know's that's the case.
posted on 26/1/12
I really don't get the counter argument
a fully extended arm completely on the wrong side of your body that ends up blocking a shot is a guilty arm.
posted on 26/1/12
a fully extended arm completely on the wrong side of your body that ends up blocking a shot is a guilty arm.
----------
blocking a shot means that the ball struck the arm and not vice versa
That's not deliberate
posted on 26/1/12
>>That's not deliberate
I don't see the relevance that he didn't deliberately deflect it onto his arm.
He deliberately stuck it an unnatural direction and it got hit. It's his fault as his arm shouldn't have been anywhere near that side of his body, fully extended, parralel to the ground and it the way of a player shooting.
posted on 26/1/12
According to the letter of the law there is a good argument for it not being a pen.
I just cannot see any referee not giving that. Every day of the week, he's gonna point at the spot.
posted on 26/1/12
Its the deflection that is the issue....where ever your arm is, if a hard hot shot bounces off your shin and bounces up and hits your arm then that is almost impossible to avoid.
Thats what made the pen SO unfair IMO
posted on 26/1/12
>.that is almost impossible to avoid.
that bit is simple
keep your left arm on the left side of your body and it won't get struck by a ball to your right.
I do the opposite. but I'm a keeper so it's OK
posted on 26/1/12
When I first saw it I though Agger had hit it high and hard and it was a peno as I did not see it hit his knee first. I can understand why he gave it.
Saw the replay and now I don't think it was.
Bottom line is do I care?
Nope
Page 2 of 3