Long Article.
Hey y'all, just want to throw some thoughts out there on what I think our problems are and what your opinions/feedbacks are or if you notice what I'm seeing in our more recent games (last 10 games or so). Unfortunately, I can't provide video analysis to back up my claims but there are incidents throughout the games that can/should prove my claims. Apologies in advance if someone has made an article about this already and highlighted them.
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Problem #1: Identity. The root of all the problems. We have had a counter-attacking strategy since Fergie's last few seasons with us. What exactly kind of team are we today? Counter-attacking? Possession based? Hoofball tactics? We have been known for ruthless counter-attacking schemes up until 2011. Fast forward to today, we have tried pretty much everything and nothing has ever stuck or they were unsuccessful (LVG possession based). Jose needs to figure what kind of team he wants and get the players to suit that system. We can't hybrid all the systems into one and expect to be successful.
Problem #2: Movements. Relating to the root of the problem, there is absolutely no movements from our players every time a midfielder gets the ball. You'll notice against Celta, Pogba had shaken off a defender/midfielder only to look up and see no one moving. He gestures in frustration and passes sideways or back to a defender. You'll see this multiple times in every game he's played in. Rashford has done well/improving in terms of movement, but the wingers, fullbacks, and other midfielders need to be able to get into space better and provide more options to pass to. With little to no movements, the defenders can all shape up their defence whenever we go up the field which will make it harder to get into open space.
Problem #3: Passive/Static passing. This one, I think you can either blame problem #2 or blame LVG/Moyes. I hate that mentality of getting the ball and immediately passing backwards, or, in the defender's case, clearing it for a throw in when there is time to look up. When the likes of Bailly, Blind and even Tuanzebe play compared to Smalling, Rojo, and Jones, the former plays composed football which gives us a better use of possession. Another example of this static passing is this sideway passing that requires players to stop to collect the ball instead of passing into his stride. Fellaini and Herrera are big culprits for doing this. This gives other teams extra time to shape up and get back.
That being said, there's an issue that I have with Valencia. Granted, he has done well for us at RB this season...but only to a certain degree. He has made some decent contribution defending, but his usage of possession going forward drives me insane because he likes to do this little hesitation thing he does where he just stands there looking for the pass and he takes too long to make up his mind and allow the opposition take their shape. As a result, he passes it backwards. Then again, you can blame either #2 or #3 or both for that.
Problem #4: Injuries. Don't think I need to get into this. Either enlarge and rotate your squad more or hire a medical staff that is decent. Leaning towards option 1 because we haven't had much to deal with earlier this year.
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If you read this far, thanks for reading. I'm just going to conclude by saying that these players we are linked with, hopefully, can hint at what Jose is planning to shape his team next season. Unfortunately, the ones that we have been linked with the most, James Rodriguez and Antoine Griezmann, is not indicating that a clear idea is set behind the scenes but we have months of transfer activities so hopefully it will become clearer by July. I would really like to give our young academy lads a shot at first team action as I think that they are ingrained with original tradition of how football is played at this club. I also believe that a 4-3-3 is the best formation going for our club and hopefully Jose can see this too and get us a playmaking centre half, defensive midfielder, and an interchangeable attacking player. Too long have we been just getting by through individual talent and it's time for us to put an actual team out there instead of 11 individuals.
Thanks again and let me know what you think or if you notice this too or if I'm beating on dead horse. Apologies for grammatical errors because I don't usually write this much unless I'm writing a paper for school (which I haven't done for a while now).
United's Problems
posted on 16/5/17
Good article.... We have struggled with an identity for a while now, possibly even in SAF's last couple of years, as he clung onto the likes of Scholes and Giggs.
LvG had a clear identity, but was never going to be around long enough to see it through to fruition, which was always my main frustration at signing him.
Jose is tasked with undoing LvG's identity, while forging his own, which has clearly not worked out well, this season. I think he is struggling to cope with his own transition from a win at all costs mentality at Chelsea to a perceived need to win with style at UTD.
It could be that Jose's own struggle to juggle style and winning is to blame for the latter points, as players are not sure whether to attack and leave exposed space, play cautiously and hope for a moment of magic, etc
I think there is a plan though, and it will be similar to his time at Real, which was lethal counter attack in certain games, coupled with dominant possession football in the majority and somewhere in between for other games... It comes down to finding star attacking players that will also work for the team.
It's been a frustrating, stop start season... hopefully we can end it with that all important trophy and use that as a springboard for next.
posted on 16/5/17
U need pace badly it's why Rashford looks so good because you attack lacks speed. He gives that but he is the only one.
posted on 16/5/17
comment by King of the Bridge (U1319)
posted 15 minutes ago
U need pace badly it's why Rashford looks so good because you attack lacks speed. He gives that but he is the only one.
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Martial and Lingard are both very fast. Mkhi has a decent burst of pace too.
Pace can only be fully used if there is space though, which we don't get in 80% of games.
We need players that can unlock those stubborn defences... Better form and finishing from the players we do have, plus one or two additional players.
It is why Rodriguez might make some sense... He has a great long range shot and is also very good passing the ball in tight spaces.
posted on 16/5/17
Thanks for this Freedom - it's a good article.
I agree with point one to a degree (although it's important for teams to be able to play different ways - to have at least a tactical Plan B and Plan C when it comes to approach), point two completely, and your point about Jose using the squad more fully.
We shouldn't expect to play the number of games we've played this season every season; but we should be prepared to do so, and in doing so you simply have to rotate the squad more than Jose has. We've actually been very lucky with injuries considering how many games the likes of Pogba, Ibra, Valencia, Herrera and others have played.
Many above have mentioned counterattacking, and suggested that it's important for teams to build squads with players who suit a particular style or ethos. The same can be said in reverse: we don't have players suited to counterattacking football, so shouldn't be playing that way. We've looked absolutely terrible when we've tried to counterattack all season, and have scored no more than a meagre handful of goals from classic breakaways.
With the players we have, the plan has to be press high, gain control, dominate the midfield, use width, pepper the goal.
posted on 16/5/17
Fifty years of hurt.
You forget Fergie didn't win anything in his first FIVE seasons, so no, standards haven't fallen. We have won one and have a chance of winning two in Jose's first season, talk of sacking him is ridiculous.
Even if next season is no better we shouldn't be sacking him. But by the third season we should see a real title challenge.
posted on 16/5/17
comment by manusince52 (U9692)
posted 17 minutes ago
Fifty years of hurt.
You forget Fergie didn't win anything in his first FIVE seasons, so no, standards haven't fallen. We have won one and have a chance of winning two in Jose's first season, talk of sacking him is ridiculous.
Even if next season is no better we shouldn't be sacking him. But by the third season we should see a real title challenge.
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I think most fans with a few more years' experience would agree with you MU52. I certainly do.
People - particularly the younger generations - have no patience nowadays. We live in an age where expectations in all walks of life are sky high and results are expected immediately.
I spent a lot of my professional career explaining to business leaders that in order to achieve better results they needed to plan over longer strategic timescales, stick with their objectives and tweak tier tactics rather from starting from scratch every year.
posted on 16/5/17
Well, now he's managing a team that hasn't got any star forwards hence the number of 0-0, 1-1 draws this season. He hasn't got a Robben, Ronaldo, Hazard, Etoo etc. to turn draws into wins for him
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I think the article touches on this point tbf in terms of the new signings we are being linked with. I.e. players like Griez and James are quality individuals but there is no sense that we are looking at a particular system or attacking style - just trying to get quality attacking individuals through the door. It would suggest that Jose is sticking to a rigid defensive formation that is reliant on big name individuals to do the business at the other end.
"Your problem is that your manager would have been sacked for this season's performance at every single one of his previous clubs. Every. Single. One. None of them would have accepted being in 6th place, not even Porto"
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Regardless, very few United fans think it would be helpful to bring in a 5th manager in 6 years.
"The movement is a huge issue. Jose's reluctance to allow midfielders or full backs to break with pace is killing out attacking intent. "
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This has certainly been true in recent months. It also contradicts our alleged counter-attacking style which is strange.
"You forget Fergie didn't win anything in his first FIVE seasons, so no, standards haven't fallen."
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Tbh I don't think that is a fair or valid comparison to make. When SAF took over, United had not won the league in nearly two decades. He virtually rebuilt the club from the ground up. None of our recent managers has had to do that. Also, SAF won the FA Cup in 1990, less than four years after he joined the club...
posted on 16/5/17
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posted on 16/5/17
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posted on 17/5/17
Thanks for the kind words everyone! Game is about to be on so hopefully we can see the problems I highlighted (minus the Valencia one). However the team he put out there is going for that nil nil draw so it might be a bad example. I'll be looking closely into how Fellaini and Smalling play today.
I'll look over the thread later and see if I have any counter points I'd like to make.