No deal Brexit....Why not?

comment by Lubo - Get Excited for Leeds United (U14008)
posted 12 hours, 59 minutes ago
comment by AZA (U5000)
posted 6 minutes ago
I am firmly in the No Deal Camo and have been since I voted.
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Sort of like voting to put a bullet in your brain but on a national scale.
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It's funny.

The "apparent" demographic for a Leave voter is

1) Older
2) Less educated
3) Working Class

As someone (the wife as well) who grew up on a very very very deprived Council Estate (the same one) and did not go to University some would think "ahh you fit the demographic well"

1) I was 31 when I voted, the wife 24
2) Neither of us went to University as we saw it as a waste of time, yet we are both Chartered Accountants
3) We climbed the ladder and moved outside the estate firstly to a small flat and now a nice house we call our own.

People in the South West are fed up of being dictated to by those inside the M25.

We actually believe in our country and its people, mainly because we ourselves are surrounded by the salt of the earth types, not by people who can't form an opinion of their own. Hence why we believe not only can it work, but we can actually thrive.

Why do we constantly put ourselves and our nations down? WE have a lot to offer and it is about time we offer that to the world whilst also seeing what they can offer us.

Our Country actually set the benchmarks for food standards that the EU follows, we even try to go further with things like much stricter Accountancy Standards but the EU refuse to follow.

Why be dictated to where we can fish, the fishing industry could rejuvenate many Northern / Scottish Coastal towns.

People will always want British goods and British Services, its about time we left the racket and looked after ourselves.

What strikes me is that we have to pay to leave...we should pay up until the day we are a member, when the benefits of being a member cease so should the payments.

Is it our fault the EU has huge black holes in their finances (the reason why 9 years of audits have occurred and all report the same thing, "these accounts show a material error within the expenses of agriculture and communities".

This in plain English means the EU have NO IDEA where the money is, goes or whether projects are actually completed.We are talking about the LARGEST expense items in the accounts here.

We as a country actually abide by the rules (I'll use EUCHR as an example with Mr Abu Hamza), it cost us £11m and 8 years to get shut of him even though he openly hated our way of life and wished ill on our servicemen/women. Yet France and Germany ignore the EUCHR and simply remove people!!

We have always been told, we are the black sheep.

The reality is, we are always the ones PUSHING for the EU to improve, the fact we are a net contributor and had no more say than a net benefactor just doesn't work, divisions will always arise.

Why should we continually support an organisation that is failing? An organisation that thinks nothing of ripping a country apart (Greece) or of one preventing freedom of speech (Spain).

If this was a business, we would own a huge proportion of the assets I saw when I visited Brussels, we would then be bought out.

If this was a country club we'd pay our membership and stop the Direct Debit when we stop using it (possibly with a few months notice period).

Article 50 is the notice period.

We should withdraw completely and then re-negotiate from the outside whilst making deals with others.

I wrote a very long Facebook post on my reasons for leaving on the eve of the referendum, I'll try to post the link.

AZA

A lot to unpick but just a couple of points, the EU adopt global standards (just as other trade blocs do) in a host of areas. Codex Alimentarius for example set food standards.

The EU basically copy and paste these standards.

As the second largest member state the UK has never been dictated to. The EU however has been a good foil for successive UKGs to blame for domestic policy failings.

If there is an area that effects national constitutional interests, member states can exercise their executive veto. As we have done on countless occasions. Pesco (military cooperation) a good example from 2011.

A good explainer on the EU’s accounts: https://fullfact.org/europe/did-auditors-sign-eu-budget/

As for the EUCHR this is not an EU body. It has nothing to do with the TEU/EU acquis.

I agree Greece was treated terribly but the problem itself was not caused by Greeces’ EU membership.

As for withdrawal if we left without a negotiated settlement it would by a complete catastrophe for both the EU and the UK.

The UKG has now drafted about 100 preparedness notices covering all areas of the country. They make for grim reading:

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/how-to-prepare-if-the-uk-leaves-the-eu-with-no-deal

I’m not so sure folk wanted a Europe wide recession. Nor to breach the Belfast Agreement!

U3126

Codex Alimentarius, this is a voluntary standard, a good example as we go further with our food labelling (traffic lighting for example) than many of the people who "voluntarily" sign up to it, we go further. We push for better more transparent information.

I don't need a "good explainer" on accounts, Advanced Audit being one of my chosen exams when completing my exams.

The "dumbed down version" even shows the wording "payments free from material error...No" which is what I was previously saying, they have NO IDEA what is happening, it is like a giant fcking sieve!!!!

The EUCHR is governed by the Council of Europe, no country has ever joined the EU who is not a member of the Council of Europe. The Council of Europe's sole aim is to create a European super state with centrally controlled laws etc, effectively down the line almost doing away with the need for any meaningful elections within nations.

The Greek problem was not forced by its membership, but by the EU's insistence the Euro would work. It is clear the Euro will never work as one currency cannot hope to serve many different tiers of economy.

People "forecast" and "predict" recessions and doom/gloom. I thought if we voted leave we'd all be on a strict diet of bread and water.

The Bank of Englands' forecasts have been wrong, the IMF (lets not forget led by a woman who was found guilty of negligence!!) don't know their rse from their face.

We continually prove the forcasters and the doom merchants wrong, we'll continue well after we have left.

In regard to Codex it’s an example of global standards being adopted by the EU. It’s not as if they are forced on anyone, and as I’m sure you are aware stakeholders are main drivers of standards and trade liberalisation.

The Council of Europe is *not* an EU body.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Europe%E2%80%93European_Union_relations

Furthermore the Belfast Agreement is enshrined by the ECHR. As the UKG is a signatory to the GFA, it cannot leave the ECHR without breaching it’s obligations.

https://www.lawsociety.ie/News/News/Stories/brexit-human-rights-and-the-good-friday-agreement/#.W-7Nlv67Kig

In regard to forecasting the UKG’s preparedness notices are not predictions.

They explicitly advise businesses etc what to prepare for in the event of a no deal. The section on logistics and JIT supply chains makes for particularly grim reading.

The withdrawal agreement commits the UK to maintaining EU statute in perpetuity, so the economic forecasts made back in 2015 are somewhat redundant now.

Even if Parliament vote down the withdrawal text, it’s the only show in town. There’s not enough time for a renegotiation .The EU27 however have suggested an extension of the a50 period if there was to be a GE or people’s vote. Which now looks likely.

I did not say The Council of Europe is an EU Body. The actual quoted aim is

"The aim of the Council of Europe is to achieve a greater unity between its members for the purpose of safeguarding and realising the ideals and principles which are their common heritage and facilitating their economic and social progress."

Which is a fluffed up lovely version of the political / law making integration you see today. (which is what I said)

Re: Codex

" I’m sure you are aware stakeholders are main drivers of standards"

I am, yet when we try to improve the standards within the EU we get nowhere. (Using the Accountancy Standard as an example).

It is the reason we are even in this position, the EU

1) Would not reform
2) Would not give Cameron a crumb

What did the EU expect honestly?

They instead want more money? After the second World War did we go cap in hand to the countries we helped defend....no.

Instead we put our own country into even more debt and helped REBUILD Europe.

The Good Friday Agreement is something that us "leaving" the ECHR will not change.

We simply draw up the same agreement (if needed) and get both sides to re-sign it.

The will not be a renegotiation, the EU have said this is it. Regardless of the timescale.

It is either THIS what we have before us, or No Deal.

No Deal for me.

Aza

You seem like an intelligent poster yet advocate the cessation of 750 treaties which underpin the fabric of the entire UK economy.

Areas of mutual cooperation in security etc would cease overnight. Planes could not legally fly.

It's only because of the nonsense spun by the Remain campaign that a select number of people deny the reality of the situation.

As I mentioned, read the UKG's notices on no deal if you are in doubt.

comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 4 hours, 51 minutes ago
Hi JLA,

The midterms did not generate a comprehensive rejection of Trump, as many both inside and outside the US were hoping.

The Democrats made many gains, winning the House, etc., but the balance of power in the Senate did not change; and there is a big question of leadership - will the Dems follow a new broom like O'Rourke or stick with someone like Biden? There's only two years to go and Trump is already campaigning; and the economy is doing well. His twitter dog-whistling is a most effective political weapon!

The midterms show us the popular will to remove Trump has not yet been generated...

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Did you consider that the election included all house members (an overwhelming Dem victory) and that the Senate only included 1/3 of its members (the vast majority of which were in “red states)?

“Neither of us went to University as we saw it as a waste of time, yet we are both Chartered Accountants”

Scandalous , how is this possible?

I went through 5 years of university, on a part time basis (working a full day, classes from 5:30-7:00), with the last two years being brutally difficult to earn a degree that then allowed me to sit for the CA (SA) exams.

comment by JonnyLosAngeles (My Dad was made in Leeds) (U9756)
posted 13 minutes ago
“Neither of us went to University as we saw it as a waste of time, yet we are both Chartered Accountants”

Scandalous, how is this possible?

I went through 5 years of university, on a part time basis (working a full day, classes from 5:30-7:00), with the last two years being brutally difficult to earn a degree that then allowed me to sit for the CA (SA) exams.
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Wife started as Apprentice in Accountancy Firm, did AAT, moved to bigger firm, studied ACCA. Now is Self Employed.

I worked in Sales whilst she was an apprentice to allow us to pay bills, stuided AAT for two years twice a week 6-9pm after work.

Eventually got a job in Practice but paid for ACCA myself studying at the weekend for 3 years. Now work for bigger firm waiting for Wife to hit a magical figure so we can open our own office.

The ACCA for me was brutal, not only is it quite difficult in areas you don't enjoy but the wife was afforded day release. I often went 5 days work 2 days study in Bristol 9-5, the study was in blocks which meant often 7 weeks of not a single day off, intense and tiring.

However, most people have to work to get to where they are, so when they get there it feels great.

(although always once something is achieved I want more)

Interesting, thanks for sharing, whichever route one takes, it’s pretty arduous!

Well done!