If Jose and Klopp resigned today

comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 11 seconds ago

comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Greatteamswinit4times- a terrible enemy (U6008)
posted 8 minutes ago

comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Greatteamswinit4times- a terrible enemy (U6008)
posted 1 minute ago

comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Greatteamswinit4times- a terrible enemy (U6008)
posted 3 minutes ago

comment by Manc Python (U17527)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by welshpoolfan (U7693)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Elvis (U7425)
posted 33 minutes ago
comment by montleeds (U18330)
posted 6 hours, 49 minutes ago

how do two luck of the draw cup wins that any manager would have won make mourinho a success with utd.
klopp has brought so much more to liverpool.
mo has make utd a shadow of their former selves.
----------------

I think we had a fairly easy passage in the Europa, but in the cup we beat City and also Southampton, who had earlier knocked out Liverpool. We also beat West Ham on the way, so 3 PL teams. That isn't an easy draw.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Fair enough, but the year before we had Bournemouth, Southampton, stoke, man city. That's 4 premier league teams. I don't think there is much in it on the league cup but we certainly had a harder Europa run.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Record books say United won Europa league
Liverpool runners up

Nobody cares about who you played along the way. If they did then your European cup triumphs would ve completely devalued
----------------------------------------------------------------------

You didn't use to care about the Europa. You derided it completely when you were in your pomp. No you cling on to it as it is all you have.
Everyone knows who the better team is. Everyone knows how the better manager is. Everyone knows that United fans would swap in a second if it came down to it.
------------------------------

You seem to be getting all worked up and not addressing the original question posed by the OP. Jose is currently the most successful of the two managers at their current clubs. I'd swap Jose for Klopp right now, no question. But as things stand, he hasn't won you anything.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Worked up?

I don't need to address the opening post, this article is what, 80 odd comments in.
----------------------------------

Well you are mentioning the Europa and making out like we think it is some kind of amazing trophy. We don't. We are just using it (and the LC) to demonstrate that Jose has been more successful than Klopp at their current clubs. How highly any of us rate those 2 trophies is irrelevant.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Not the only way to define success though is it. I think I'd rather have a team that I enjoy watching every week and is progressing every season. United fans hate watching their team play. That says everything.
----------------------------

I understand what you are saying. At the moment I just want to enjoy watching us play. But that entertainment, not success, which was the original question. When we talk about the most successful managers in history, we don't look at how entertaining their teams were - we look at the cold hard facts of how many trophies they won. You can try and twist it all you like and add caveats, but Jose has been more successful at United than Klopp at Liverpool so far.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Depends how you measure success. If it is straight up trophies then fair enough. If you want to add a little detail and nuance, then it becomes more difficult.

Man United have a squad and budget far in excess of what Liverpool can afford. Since money is one of the key indicators of success then this means Utd have a much more likely chance of winning trophies than Liverpool. This budget allows them a better squad with more depth which allows them to compete on more fronts.

This is part of the reason that Liverpool have struggled during the tail end of seasons where they have gotten further in Europe. Also a harder run in the Europa means they couldn't rest players as easily to conserve for the final. This is why it is relevant to the discussion of who has had more success.
------------------

They are the details of why one manager might have found success easier than the other. But success in terms of football is winning games/trophies.

Whether you would rather be entertained or watch poor football and win trophies is a different debate. As things stand, the record books show that Jose has had more success than Klopp at their respective clubs.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hence why it is nuanced. If the measure of success is trophies, And one manager has it set up so he is more likely to win then it is an unbalanced comparison. So you have to take I to account these factors when measuring success.

It depends on what you mean by success.

If Huddersfield get Top Ten league position, that would be considered a successful season for them. If Liverpool finish outside the top four at the end of this season and win nothing, that won't be considered a success as their aims and expectations aren't the same as Huddersfield.

If the only measure of success you are looking at is trophies won, then of course Jose has been more successful than Klopp. If we're looking at the clubs position, aims, and how close to they are of reaching them, Klopp is succeeding while Jose isn't.

If Jose quit now, would any United fan, other than Robb, think he was a success?

Even Van Gaal won us a trophy. He was won more than Klopp did. Do you consider him a success or failure?

Won more while both were in England*

Dude, please take your common sense somewhere else.

People here are allergic to it.

comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 5 hours, 22 minutes ago
comment by Manc Python (U17527)
posted 12 minutes ago
Klopp us currently a better manager however there is not a chance in hell klopp is getting anywhere near Joses trophy haul. Jose will go down as one if the great managers. Klopp won't
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kind of helps when you manage Porto, Chelsea, inter Milan, real Madrid, Chelsea again and Man United, as opposed to Mainz, Dortmund and Liverpool
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why doesn’t klopp have those kind of opportunities that Mourinho has had if he’s such a great manager??? Is it possible he’s too much of a puuussy to risk managing at a club where he’s actually under any kind of pressure to deliver trophies?

comment by Erik (U21750)
posted 8 hours, 4 minutes ago
comment by The Welsh Xavi (U15412)
posted 5 hours, 22 minutes ago
comment by Manc Python (U17527)
posted 12 minutes ago
Klopp us currently a better manager however there is not a chance in hell klopp is getting anywhere near Joses trophy haul. Jose will go down as one if the great managers. Klopp won't
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kind of helps when you manage Porto, Chelsea, inter Milan, real Madrid, Chelsea again and Man United, as opposed to Mainz, Dortmund and Liverpool
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why doesn’t klopp have those kind of opportunities that Mourinho has had if he’s such a great manager??? Is it possible he’s too much of a puuussy to risk managing at a club where he’s actually under any kind of pressure to deliver trophies?

No
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you want Mourinho to resign today?

comment by Redinthehead - FreeGaza - فلسطين (U1860)
posted 15 minutes ago
Do you want Mourinho to resign today?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don’t

Jose in his pomp was about as good as there has ever been.

He won a treble with Inter, the CL with Porto, league titles in every league he's competed in.

Klopp is a brilliant manager, but he's won one league title in 8 years at Liverpool. Conte did that in 2.

comment by Busby (U19985)
posted 2 hours, 19 minutes ago
Jose in his pomp was about as good as there has ever been.

He won a treble with Inter, the CL with Porto, league titles in every league he's competed in.

Klopp is a brilliant manager, but he's won one league title in 8 years at Liverpool. Conte did that in 2.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I can't tell you how much I admire that fact you have gone back 5.5years to zombify this thread.

I think that the bottom line here is that Klopp will not go down as a PL great unless he can win the PL this season. He should manage it looking at Liverpool's run-in compared to City & Arsenal.