Its quite simple. See what he is doing at Spurs. Jose is a serial winner. He knows how to steady wobbly ships. He was the perfect man to get as I am very sure that he would have restored the confidence of our player after Emery. Jose's experience was what we needed not Arteta. I know some fans didnt want Jose because of his beef with Wenger but that was rubbish. If Jose would help make our defense solid and bring a winning mentality to the team then I would gladly take him.
Imagine what Jose would have done with a front 3 of Laca, PEA and Pepe? Absolute wonders I am sure.
The board let us down big time by not doing everything to get Jose. Instead they gambled with a grossly inexperienced Arteta.
We should have gone for Jose
posted on 30/11/20
Arsenal would have been better with Ancelotti.
-----
I'm not sure about this and I don't believe he's a manager who would take this group of players to the CL.
He might have done better than what Arteta has, but not enough to bridge the gap, especially with the players we have.
He wouldn't have been worth it.
posted on 30/11/20
Of course he wouldn’t have taken you to the CL, but he’d have had you closer than Arteta. And you’d have actually played some decent football, where you take shots and score goals. You’d have probably ended up with different players as well.
I don’t know why that wouldn’t have been worth it looking at how you’ve actually got worse than you were under Emery.
Mourinho I can understand, even though he’d have done a better job as well.
posted on 30/11/20
Again, the football might be slightly better, but not by much. These players lack the characteristics and profiles needed to play consistently good football. We are completely void of athleticism and power in key areas. We have no ball carriers. Ancelotti would struggle too.
Would we have ended up with different players? Willian aside, who was clearly an Arteta signing, I really don't think it'd be a significant enough difference.
I haven't been hugely impressed by what he's done at Everton, either. He didn't do great when he took over from Silva, and now he's been supported in the transfer market (heavily), he still hasn't done a particularly great job with better players than what Arsenal have.
He also has minimal experience in rebuilding a club in dire straits like ours.
I'd have preferred a different manager to Arteta to begin with and if he/when Arteta gets sacked, I wouldn't want Ancelotti to be on the list.
posted on 30/11/20
I think you would have, yes. You’d have definitely got James Rodriguez. And while consistently good football isn’t to be expected with a lot of these players, it’d still have been better and more entertaining to watch than what you’ve been playing.
I do understand the idea of lacking the experience of rebuilding the side. But then so does Arteta, and that’s where my comparison is. One is a much better manager than the other. There has to be an element of competence when it comes to short term results, and Ancelotti would have been a better bet to bring that, with an eye on improving the squad for further improvements. As essentially that’s all you’re doing anyway, it’s not like you’re seeing the current squad develop (and that there’s a belief there will be) like say Spurs did when they brought Pochettino in.
Maybe it’s just me, but I think managers that have no track record in management being given the huge job of rebuilding big clubs isn’t the best idea.
posted on 30/11/20
James Rodriguez wouldn't have been enough to a) help us play good football on a regular basis if other players aren't on his wavelength. And b) get the results we need. You've said yourself Arteta can't have a free pass because Arsenal need results now otherwise we risk falling even further behind the pack.
Everton's owners backed Ancelotti in a way that Arsenal don't often back theirs. Everton's transfer spend has been higher than ours over the last 5 years. And baring in mind it's only recently where it's been suggested that Arteta has more control over transfers, whereas before, it was decided between Raul Sanllehi and Edu's contacts. These dynamics between ownership, boardroom and manager make a huge difference. Ancelotti wouldn't like operating under these conditions. Or he'd struggle.
I'm not going to argue with you over Ancelotti being better than Arteta. Ancelotti's a serial CL and league winner, Arteta's not even been a manager for a year. There's no comparison.
But neither manager seems like they would have been a viable, 'long term' solution to help us get to where we want to be.
There may be subtle differences in some areas, in terms of style or a few more positive results, but the defining outcome would ultimately be the same. We wouldn't get Champions League football, we wouldn't have a competitive team, we wouldn't reach our targets and we'd have a squad full of perennial underachievers on huge money letting us down.
Until the owners start getting more involved and making better decisions in terms of how the club is run, the type of people they want in charge and can communicate their vision from the top-down, with a coherent plan on how to achieve it, we are relying on a manager to come in and massively over perform surrounded by a bunch of clueless corporate schmuks.
Arteta may not be the answer, but Ancelotti isn't either.
posted on 30/11/20
You spent more money in the summer than they did. The issue is more than the players, you aren’t a well coached team in transition and don’t get enough men forward. Ancelotti would have a bigger impact here as would James. No knowing how different the squad would be, of course, as Arteta’s sidelined a lot of players since joining.
I don’t disagree with what you’re saying with regard to the rest of it, your club is badly run. I just think Carlo is better than Arteta, would do better than Arteta and would leave Arsenal in a better position to achieve their targets.
The things on the outside of that are a bigger issue. But the club shouldn’t make life even more difficult for itself by failure to appoint qualified people in management.
I think the latter lends itself to a more positive feeling around the club as well. Everton fans are much happier than Arsenal fans right now for that reason. I imagine the players are as well. Hard to feel positive when you’re playing like a relegation candidate (and much of that is down to instruction) when the manager has no credentials to be managing a club like Arsenal.
There’d be a better feel around the place with a man like Ancelotti as that’s one of the best parts of his management.
The idea of long term solution is something I have a massive problem with. Especially when it’s at the biggest clubs in the land. It’s not really a thing, because clubs only have long term success and sustainability after achieving short term success (relative to their goals).
posted on 1/12/20
But neither manager seems like they would have been a viable, 'long term' solution to help us get to where we want to be.
-----------------------------------------------------
Thing is for a club in Arsenal's position, with the ownership you have, the idea of 'long term solutions' is an illusion IMO. Unless you hit the jackpot & land yourself a manager so revolutionary in his approach (e.g. Wenger in the 90s) and/or incredibly charismatic that average players turn into quality footballers off the strength of his natural leadership (e.g. Klopp today), you'll constantly hold yourselves back from preventing any real progress transpiring.
Someone like Ancelotti, in a way, would be systematic of the problems - he's a political type who won't challenge the ownership too much & happily coast on the minor victories like Wenger did, but he's a safe hand who'd have kept you in the conversation. And most importantly where Arsenal go specifically, he's made a career out of being a bit of a K.I.S.S. tactician - he wouldn't overthink the Ozil situation, he'd just play him. He'd look at Laca & Auba in the same squad & just play two up front, etc... that's an understated asset when managing a team with an imbalanced squad.
posted on 1/12/20
comment by Devil (U6522)
-----------------------------------------------------
- he wouldn't overthink the Ozil situation, he'd just play him. He'd look at Laca & Auba in the same squad & just play two up front, etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shows how little you know
If that's the case we were very lucky to escape him as a manager because Ozil is absolutely finished and has been for years and Laca/Auba upfront together has been proven not to work enough times. Laca is also finished at this level, or at least, the level we aspire to return to. Heck, this season and for much of last he hasn't even been good enough for a team battling relegation.
So we've had a poor November like we always do but so what? Arteta needs time for this rebuild and we have been missing key players due to bad injuries for as long as I can remember, had Partey been available for the full Villa game and the games since then I'm sure results would have been different too. We only got one piece of the jigsaw in midfield this Summer, we needed Aouar too and likely more.
Arteta has frustrated me a lot recently but everyone is quick to forget what he achieved coming in after Emery to a very difficult situation. He's clearly an intelligent guy, he's pretty charismatic and extremely passionate. So long as we start to see some signs of progression again this season I would give him a free pass to learn as he goes then start to judge him more next season after he's had another Summer window.
posted on 1/12/20
Difficulty with patience is that the players will start not to believe in the manager. If things arent working or improving, keeping losing and bobbing around the bottom half then the joy goes and there comes a point when no matter how "inspirational" the manager is players really need to see the light at the end of the tunnel or they lose faith. Auba looks like a guy who isnt enjoying football, or the style, or the limited chances he's getting and is wishing he went somewhere different in the summer. He's +30 now and probably not wanting to be part of a project that may take years to deliver.
Personally i thought Arsenal were foolish to build something around a player who is in the last years of his career.
posted on 1/12/20
"I think the latter lends itself to a more positive feeling around the club as well. Everton fans are much happier than Arsenal fans right now for that reason. I imagine the players are as well. Hard to feel positive when you’re playing like a relegation candidate (and much of that is down to instruction) when the manager has no credentials to be managing a club like Arsenal."
You say this, but if this was the case, how was he able to motivate the players to win the FA Cup? He's beaten every team in the top 6 except for Spurs within the last 11 months.
Equally, OGS and Lampard don't really have the credentials to be managing the clubs they're at, yet they've still been able to sign good players and do relatively well. Chelsea and United both have more money than us, yes, but Arsenal aren't exactly paupers and we have a lot of players coming off the wage bill next Summer. Recruitment needs to be miles better. However, Arteta's only had one real transfer window, and he's brought in two players that were needed (Gabriel and Partey), whilst pushing hard to sign an attacking midfielder (Aouar).
We'll have to agree to disagree about the scale of impact Ancelotti would have because truth be told, I've not been that wow'ed by what he's done at Everton or what he did previously at Napoli.
Ultimately though, whilst Arteta absolutely should be getting us to perform much better, these players have let down the last 3 managers now. At what point do you realise that, outside of a short-term impact, our personnel will let you down in the long-run?
If Arteta does survive the season, I'd be interested to know how we perform next season with different players. If it's more of the same, with no tangible progress, he has absolutely nowhere to hide.