Jesse and professionalism

comment by milkyboy (U12731)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 1 hour, 26 minutes ago
Bielsa 1 red card in 26 matches
Marsch 2 red cards in 12 matches

We're 6 games in this season and 1 red card already under Marsch.
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Well I guess if you want to pick and choose what to include in your discipline stats to try and prove your point that’s your prerogative fella. But I’ll just go by the fair play league they publish every year that uses a points total for cards collected.

We were bottom of it last year… already well adrift at the bottom before marsch came.

We are 13th currently this year.
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I mentioned red cards.

You asked about cards, I answered about the red cards I mentioned.

That's not picking and choosing.

Marsch comes in we get rash of red cards which has continued this season along with a charge of failing to contain our players.

Are you genuinely trying to imply that we had more discipline problems under Bielsa and that he had a lack of integrity?

It can't be overstated what a mess we were in when Marsch came. We were heading for the drop, and comfortably so.

Since his arrival, on social media & elsewhere I've heard people have a go at him because of his nationality, his sartorial elegance or otherwise, his tactics (even last season when he didn't have his own players & we were in a dogfight), his team's discipline & now his own.

Personally I'm judging him on the fact we remained in the Premiership last season, which was a tremendous achievement in my eyes, plus I'm confident we'll still be in the top flight next season too.

He may not be the one to return the club to former glories, but he may be instrumental in advancing the club to a position from which we can start to challenge.

I'm glad he's here & I wish him all the best.

comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by milkyboy (U12731)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 1 hour, 26 minutes ago
Bielsa 1 red card in 26 matches
Marsch 2 red cards in 12 matches

We're 6 games in this season and 1 red card already under Marsch.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Well I guess if you want to pick and choose what to include in your discipline stats to try and prove your point that’s your prerogative fella. But I’ll just go by the fair play league they publish every year that uses a points total for cards collected.

We were bottom of it last year… already well adrift at the bottom before marsch came.

We are 13th currently this year.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mentioned red cards.

You asked about cards, I answered about the red cards I mentioned.

That's not picking and choosing.

Marsch comes in we get rash of red cards which has continued this season along with a charge of failing to contain our players.

Are you genuinely trying to imply that we had more discipline problems under Bielsa and that he had a lack of integrity?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well you 'chose' red cards because you believe it supported you point about marsch's lack of control of his players. Not only does it ignore the fact that we were in a desperate relegation dogfight and that some might say 2 red cards in 12 games isn't really a rash... but it ignores the wider concept of player discipline - which is why i referenced the fair play table.

Not sure the 'rash' has continued this season. The red card was his, not a player's, so not really relevant if the argument is player discipline.

I'm not 'implying' anything regarding discipline under Bielsa v Marsch. I'm stating facts via the fair play table.

And I'm not questioning Bielsa's integrity. He did some amazing things that demonstrated remarkable morality and integrity that have been well documented but he was a human being and a complex one... and we all have different value sets.

You have your theory about Marsch, I respect that. I just don't think the evidence backs it up... at least not yet. He's on record as saying he wanted Jack Harrison to be more assertive last year, it's very possible that in encouraging players to fight for every ball it was interpreted as being ok for Dan James to leap into people etc.

This season it's a different team, different playing style, different players, different circumstances. If come January we're bottom of the fair play league again and we've had a spate of reckless red cards with no sign of a clampdown... then i'll be agreeing with you.

comment by milkyboy (U12731)
posted 9 hours, 42 minutes ago
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by milkyboy (U12731)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 1 hour, 26 minutes ago
Bielsa 1 red card in 26 matches
Marsch 2 red cards in 12 matches

We're 6 games in this season and 1 red card already under Marsch.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Well I guess if you want to pick and choose what to include in your discipline stats to try and prove your point that’s your prerogative fella. But I’ll just go by the fair play league they publish every year that uses a points total for cards collected.

We were bottom of it last year… already well adrift at the bottom before marsch came.

We are 13th currently this year.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mentioned red cards.

You asked about cards, I answered about the red cards I mentioned.

That's not picking and choosing.

Marsch comes in we get rash of red cards which has continued this season along with a charge of failing to contain our players.

Are you genuinely trying to imply that we had more discipline problems under Bielsa and that he had a lack of integrity?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well you 'chose' red cards because you believe it supported you point about marsch's lack of control of his players. Not only does it ignore the fact that we were in a desperate relegation dogfight and that some might say 2 red cards in 12 games isn't really a rash... but it ignores the wider concept of player discipline - which is why i referenced the fair play table.

Not sure the 'rash' has continued this season. The red card was his, not a player's, so not really relevant if the argument is player discipline.

I'm not 'implying' anything regarding discipline under Bielsa v Marsch. I'm stating facts via the fair play table.

And I'm not questioning Bielsa's integrity. He did some amazing things that demonstrated remarkable morality and integrity that have been well documented but he was a human being and a complex one... and we all have different value sets.

You have your theory about Marsch, I respect that. I just don't think the evidence backs it up... at least not yet. He's on record as saying he wanted Jack Harrison to be more assertive last year, it's very possible that in encouraging players to fight for every ball it was interpreted as being ok for Dan James to leap into people etc.

This season it's a different team, different playing style, different players, different circumstances. If come January we're bottom of the fair play league again and we've had a spate of reckless red cards with no sign of a clampdown... then i'll be agreeing with you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Argued fairly by both of you. As it should be, and not some silly insinuation that it amount to trolling

The post is about Marsch's discipline, so him receiving red card, and also a yellow in a previous match is entirely relevant.

We went from one red card in 26 matches to one in 6 last season and the 1 in 6 ratio has continued this season.

Obviously can change over season and I think you get more cards when things going against you as they were last season, but you cant have a couple of poor games and then accept that your manager is going to get sent off, this really isnt something we should be normalising.

Somebody should find a stat that shows how many cards other coaches got/get while in a relegation battle!..

And it should be said that a coach can control his players, play and tactics better from the sidelines than sitting in the stands!..

As for going down with Bielsa, nobody can say for sure but I personally don't think we would have!..

Would be interesting to see the comparison between red cards for coaches in a relegation battles vs managers in mid table

comment by A14... 152-0 T20 + Tea was fantastic پاکستان زِنده باد (U2805)
posted 2 hours, 43 minutes ago
Would be interesting to see the comparison between red cards for coaches in a relegation battles vs managers in mid table
----------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/fairnesstabelle/wettbewerb/GB1/plus/?saison_id=2021

comment by Real Estate - Podemos ser Top Four de nuevo (U21471)
posted 5 hours, 31 minutes ago
comment by milkyboy (U12731)
posted 9 hours, 42 minutes ago
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 21 minutes ago
comment by milkyboy (U12731)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Jonty (U4614)
posted 1 hour, 26 minutes ago
Bielsa 1 red card in 26 matches
Marsch 2 red cards in 12 matches

We're 6 games in this season and 1 red card already under Marsch.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Well I guess if you want to pick and choose what to include in your discipline stats to try and prove your point that’s your prerogative fella. But I’ll just go by the fair play league they publish every year that uses a points total for cards collected.

We were bottom of it last year… already well adrift at the bottom before marsch came.

We are 13th currently this year.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I mentioned red cards.

You asked about cards, I answered about the red cards I mentioned.

That's not picking and choosing.

Marsch comes in we get rash of red cards which has continued this season along with a charge of failing to contain our players.

Are you genuinely trying to imply that we had more discipline problems under Bielsa and that he had a lack of integrity?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well you 'chose' red cards because you believe it supported you point about marsch's lack of control of his players. Not only does it ignore the fact that we were in a desperate relegation dogfight and that some might say 2 red cards in 12 games isn't really a rash... but it ignores the wider concept of player discipline - which is why i referenced the fair play table.

Not sure the 'rash' has continued this season. The red card was his, not a player's, so not really relevant if the argument is player discipline.

I'm not 'implying' anything regarding discipline under Bielsa v Marsch. I'm stating facts via the fair play table.

And I'm not questioning Bielsa's integrity. He did some amazing things that demonstrated remarkable morality and integrity that have been well documented but he was a human being and a complex one... and we all have different value sets.

You have your theory about Marsch, I respect that. I just don't think the evidence backs it up... at least not yet. He's on record as saying he wanted Jack Harrison to be more assertive last year, it's very possible that in encouraging players to fight for every ball it was interpreted as being ok for Dan James to leap into people etc.

This season it's a different team, different playing style, different players, different circumstances. If come January we're bottom of the fair play league again and we've had a spate of reckless red cards with no sign of a clampdown... then i'll be agreeing with you.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Argued fairly by both of you. As it should be, and not some silly insinuation that it amount to trolling
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The beauty of sport is that we don't see it all the same and should be able to discuss, sometime heatedly, but without abuse, milky did great job of articulating his position, how it should be!

Maybe Jesse should have a view of this thread

likewise Jonty... for the record I do see both sides of this