Please not Dean Smith

comment by Merseysidefox (U4842)
posted 27 minutes ago
comment by Foxello (U6985)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Nuneaton_fox (U7936)
posted 1 hour, 25 minutes ago
comment by Foxello (U6985)
posted 38 minutes ago
Someone who struggled badly in his final season at Villa and was then sacked at Norwich in the Championship does not strike me as someone who can keep us up. It has a Dave Bassett type feel about it - someone to manage the decline and transition but not keep us up. Hopefully I'm wrong but it just feels like resigning ourselves to relegation.

Shakespeare coming back is fine. He was a good assistant to Pearson and Ranieri but was totally out of his depth as a manager. As a No.2 though, he's decent. Terry I am less keen on, mainly because I don't like him as a person and the various controversies during his career. He's apparently a decent defensive coach though so whatever.

As with Marsch, even though I am uninspired, I will give Smith & Co a fair chance. I don't expect them to keep us up, so anything is a bonus.

My main concern is how the hell you go from Potter to Marsch to Benitez to Smith. There is absolutely no plan or strategy there, they are all completely different managers with differing styles. They have nothing in common and it just feels like a real scattergun approach caused by panic after finally waking up after months of complacency. There's just no idea at the hierarchy of the club, those in power are completely clueless about our future and the direction they intend to take. I am very concerned about the future if these people continue in their positions - we need serious changes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you 99P in disguise?
I'm not disagreeing with you btw about most of your post.

I'm not too enthused either about having someone who's just been sacked by Norwich. The triumvirate however has a better feel about it than most of the other serious alternatives spoken about, apart from Rafa perhaps.

I'm hoping Terry can make a difference at the back, maybe we can persuade him to lace his boots up again for a few matches - couldn't be much worse than the shower we've had playing there recently!


----------------------------------------------------------------------
No but I am starting to think that 99 was right all along. Top and the board have really dropped the ball over these past few months and this farce over the new manager makes me think that there is no real plan or idea beyond hoping for the best. To go after 4 different managers, all of whom have a completely different profile, is just totally incoherent and incompetent and shows that they have been blindsided by complacency. Well-run clubs have proper succession plans and know what type of manager they want - badly run clubs make it up as they go along. Guess which we have ended up being...

I agree that as a trio, this is probably a bit better than Marsch. I'm just not sold on Smith - as with the original Pearson/Shakespeare/Walsh partnership, I suspect the main man is also the weakest cog in the machine. I would have much preferred Rafa and I also think he would be the better option for promotion.

We are where we are, though. I don't expect us to stay up at this stage, so any improvement and potential recovery would be as surprising as it would be heroic.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I’m going to attempt to counter this slightly and say that I don’t think you can criticise the board for not having a succession plan. I think they did and I think his name was Thomas Frank and I imagine some similar or comparable European managers.

However, the problem was that all of these succession plans were probably being made for this or next summer when Rodgers moved on and we were financially stable again back to our approach of buying younger talent and selling the odd big player.

But the mistake was to believe that Rodgers would turn this around because the squad is easily good enough that he ‘should’ turn it around. That was the major mistake.

But once we accepted he couldn’t then we were never going to have a contingency plan because none of our succession targets would have come to us. Potter could have been a stroke of luck but it was the wrong time for him and we’re the wrong club in this situation.

So I agree the club were mistaken to have persevered with Rodgers in the mistaken belief he’d come good, but you can’t have a plan for convincing a manager to come in in this dire situation! That plan doesn’t exist. Maybe we could have sounded out Benitez or something prior to removing Rodgers, but I don’t think it’s the omnishambles you’re suggesting to have believed that Rodgers should have been capable of getting this squad to turn it around.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can see why 99P got irritated with you Mersey, there are no excuses for Top and the management, they've overseen this shambles. They've had plenty of opportunities to get rid of Brendan in good time to make a difference, but instead chose to try and stick with him until they dumped him with only 10 games to go when any manager is going to think twice about taking on such a poisoned chalice. It's been evident since early in the season that the team was going to struggle with Rodgers in charge.

The finger of blame for this mess points solely to the LCFC boardroom and management.

You're completely right as well Nuneaton, if only Top and the board listened to me nearly 18 Months ago, took them a while to catch up didn't it.

I do understand their reasoning, they had invested so much in Rodgers not just financially but allowing him to basically control the Club from top to bottom almost, if we continued to do well who could have blamed them, it was just this blinkered devout backing of Little Twot that has cost us and them dearly.

The decision to finally wake up and axe him is where I agree with Mersey, the timing was awful but better that decision than allowing him even more time destroying the Club ( personally I'd have kept him to his contract have that relegation on his cv ) but apart from Marsch the rest of the stuff is media speculation and fans spouting rumours, not sure why some get their knickers in a twist over it.

I think we’re all in agreement here right? The biggest mistake was allowing Rodgers to continue in the belief he would sort it out?

It was a bad mistake and I’m fully aligned with the views that the club should have acted earlier and got it badly badly wrong. And it was also a huge error to remove Rodgers without a contingency already in place clearly. Bad management from the club all round.

But it says something that I’m quite happy to have Smith in rather than the poison I felt Rodgers had become for our club. His arrogance in thinking he was better than us and passing that on to some players whilst alienating others was stinking the whole place out.

Don’t forget his arrogance that he’s still claims he could have saved us!

I think we are all aligned in the view that sacking Rodgers was delayed for far too long. I also think that the search for a new manager has been an incoherent mess. I still think that you are downplaying the mismanagement element of the situation and that you are treating these as isolated cock-ups, rather than part of a much bigger cock-up that started about 2 years ago and has snowballed since. I still think that going after 4 different managers with 4 different management styles and 4 different profiles show how rudderless and clueless we are at board level.

Regardless of this, I am still delighted that Rodgers is no longer the manager and that he is not our problem anymore. The guy was a poison and a wrecker who has done a lot of damage himself. That Top and the board couldn't see the damage he was causing is deeply disturbing.

I am underwhelmed by the Smith appointment but pleased that he at least seems to be showing far more acknowledgement of the predicament we are in than Rodgers managed in 3/4 of a season, and that he appears to have a plan for how to try and turn things around.

Do I expect us to stay up? No. I think we have left it far too late. But our chances are more improved now that Rodgers has gone and we have got someone vaguely competent in. Had we sacked him after the Brentford game before the international break, I think we would have a few extra points on the board and would be in a better position.

comment by Foxello (U6985)
posted 3 minutes ago
I think we are all aligned in the view that sacking Rodgers was delayed for far too long. I also think that the search for a new manager has been an incoherent mess. I still think that you are downplaying the mismanagement element of the situation and that you are treating these as isolated cock-ups, rather than part of a much bigger cock-up that started about 2 years ago and has snowballed since. I still think that going after 4 different managers with 4 different management styles and 4 different profiles show how rudderless and clueless we are at board level.

Regardless of this, I am still delighted that Rodgers is no longer the manager and that he is not our problem anymore. The guy was a poison and a wrecker who has done a lot of damage himself. That Top and the board couldn't see the damage he was causing is deeply disturbing.

I am underwhelmed by the Smith appointment but pleased that he at least seems to be showing far more acknowledgement of the predicament we are in than Rodgers managed in 3/4 of a season, and that he appears to have a plan for how to try and turn things around.

Do I expect us to stay up? No. I think we have left it far too late. But our chances are more improved now that Rodgers has gone and we have got someone vaguely competent in. Had we sacked him after the Brentford game before the international break, I think we would have a few extra points on the board and would be in a better position.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Can’t argue with any of that Foxello. I guess my only difference is that I understand the decisions that were made at every point, even if they were bad ones.

- Back Rodgers’ plan to invest in a squad to compete in Europe and in the league.
- Cut back spending and back the talented and bloated squad we have whilst we readjust finances after it backfired
- Expected Rodgers to get something out of talented squad at some point and that it must turn around


The one I can’t forgive is the same as you. Rodgers should have gone before the international break or not at all. At that point we were either backing him or not the the board messed it up entirely.

The board have made the same mistake as all the neutrals looking in. That squad is way too hood to go down.

They were wrong. A mismanaged set of players is never too good to go down.

I know it's difficult Mersey but you should try using 'Top and the Board' instead of 'The Club' - it's not only true and accurate but I think you'll find it quite cathartic!

We aren't very far apart in the thinking here, and there are hard lessons to be learnt but the supporters definitely need to come together over the next 6 weeks and fully get behind the team (no booing!!) - that is the only way we might survive this season, as unlikely as that seems at the moment.

Trying to be positive:
- we've got a management team in place instead of the hapless (not their fault) interim managers;
- this team includes a previous member of staff who will have much familiarity with LCFC and proved a competent assistant during his previous time with us so will hopefully help them to get going quickly;
- this team includes one of the best Premier League centre backs of recent years who I hope will be able to impart some wisdom on our misfiring defence (a clean sheet would be nice);
- the first game is against Man City away. Not an ideal choice for obvious reasons but it is effectively a free hit to get out of the way first without hopefully too much damage being done, the main task being to improve the defence and prevent a thrashing. If by some miracle we were able to get a result that would be a fantastic confidence booster. It gives us time and a real match to be able to prepare for the visit of Wolves;
- Of the 8 games we have left 4 of them are against teams that are also in trouble at the bottom;
- Having had a quick scan through the fixtures for other clubs in trouble none of their schedules look easy - Forest's in particular is horrendous and West Ham's next PL game is against the Gunners sandwiched between a two leg Europa League Quarter Final; none of which will help us in the slightest unless we are able to garner sufficient points;
- A number of the relegation threatened sides play each other so points will be dropped somewhere; and
- Hopefully the management team will be able to realise quickly that a number of our problems have been self inflicted by the previous insistence in playing possession at all costs football, having players out of position (Maddison on the wing in particular), not picking players in form up front (Ian), not realising your tactics aren't working and being unable to do anything about it, and making stupid substitutions at the wrong time.

I realise that's putting an optimistic spin on it (the last point in particular is a fantasy given the short time period/number of games they have to work with the squad), but although fearing the worst I'm now hoping for the best.

I'm going to reflect that by changing my standard imoji once again, this time from to (I sincerely hope to be able to revert back to before the end of the season).

I think it was perfectly reasonable to expect a manager of the supposed skill and calibre of Brendan Rodgers to get the best out of what is, on paper at least, a decent squad that should be pushing for top half. I also maintain that expecting a ROI for the £60m outlay in 2021 before the club committed to further spending is also a reasonable expectation. But I am conflicted in also simultaneously thinking that you can't just take a year off from investing and taking difficult decisions and just expect that everything will be OK - that is complacency of the highest order.

The club had plenty of opportunities to dismiss Rodgers. That they chose to stick with him in the expectation that things would turn around, even though he was doing nothing to suggest that they would, and only sacked him at the last plausible opportunity and then not have a proper plan to replace him, is negligent in my view. It is unforgiveable and has put our status at risk and looking increasing threatened.

Nuneaton, you make some very good arguments for the optimistic. I would perhaps be more aligned if we had not just lost three winnable games in a week. We can only hope that Smith and his team have enough about them to turn things around.

I think my chosen emoji pronoun for the rest of the season will be

comment by Foxello (U6985)
posted 35 minutes ago
I think it was perfectly reasonable to expect a manager of the supposed skill and calibre of Brendan Rodgers to get the best out of what is, on paper at least, a decent squad that should be pushing for top half. I also maintain that expecting a ROI for the £60m outlay in 2021 before the club committed to further spending is also a reasonable expectation. But I am conflicted in also simultaneously thinking that you can't just take a year off from investing and taking difficult decisions and just expect that everything will be OK - that is complacency of the highest order.

The club had plenty of opportunities to dismiss Rodgers. That they chose to stick with him in the expectation that things would turn around, even though he was doing nothing to suggest that they would, and only sacked him at the last plausible opportunity and then not have a proper plan to replace him, is negligent in my view. It is unforgiveable and has put our status at risk and looking increasing threatened.

Nuneaton, you make some very good arguments for the optimistic. I would perhaps be more aligned if we had not just lost three winnable games in a week. We can only hope that Smith and his team have enough about them to turn things around.

I think my chosen emoji pronoun for the rest of the season will be
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing much to argue about there Foxello. My chosen time they should have sacked him is 18 September after the Spurs debacle, with us propping up the League having garnered a measly point from the opening 7 games. I could also chuck in the accusation that maybe Top and the Board did not act to get rid of Rodgers because they didn't want to pay out the compensation - not taking proper consideration of the potential catastrophic financial consequences of us going down as a result of this decision.

You make a very valid point about the last three games, indeed I could probably make a far more compelling argument to back up why I think we're going to be relegated - but I'm not going to do that as I'm trying to stay positive and look forward with as much optimism as I can muster for the remaining games.

comment by Nuneaton_fox (U7936)
posted 9 hours, 33 minutes ago
I know it's difficult Mersey but you should try using 'Top and the Board' instead of 'The Club' - it's not only true and accurate but I think you'll find it quite cathartic!

We aren't very far apart in the thinking here, and there are hard lessons to be learnt but the supporters definitely need to come together over the next 6 weeks and fully get behind the team (no booing!!) - that is the only way we might survive this season, as unlikely as that seems at the moment.

Trying to be positive:
- we've got a management team in place instead of the hapless (not their fault) interim managers;
- this team includes a previous member of staff who will have much familiarity with LCFC and proved a competent assistant during his previous time with us so will hopefully help them to get going quickly;
- this team includes one of the best Premier League centre backs of recent years who I hope will be able to impart some wisdom on our misfiring defence (a clean sheet would be nice);
- the first game is against Man City away. Not an ideal choice for obvious reasons but it is effectively a free hit to get out of the way first without hopefully too much damage being done, the main task being to improve the defence and prevent a thrashing. If by some miracle we were able to get a result that would be a fantastic confidence booster. It gives us time and a real match to be able to prepare for the visit of Wolves;
- Of the 8 games we have left 4 of them are against teams that are also in trouble at the bottom;
- Having had a quick scan through the fixtures for other clubs in trouble none of their schedules look easy - Forest's in particular is horrendous and West Ham's next PL game is against the Gunners sandwiched between a two leg Europa League Quarter Final; none of which will help us in the slightest unless we are able to garner sufficient points;
- A number of the relegation threatened sides play each other so points will be dropped somewhere; and
- Hopefully the management team will be able to realise quickly that a number of our problems have been self inflicted by the previous insistence in playing possession at all costs football, having players out of position (Maddison on the wing in particular), not picking players in form up front (Ian), not realising your tactics aren't working and being unable to do anything about it, and making stupid substitutions at the wrong time.

I realise that's putting an optimistic spin on it (the last point in particular is a fantasy given the short time period/number of games they have to work with the squad), but although fearing the worst I'm now hoping for the best.

I'm going to reflect that by changing my standard imoji once again, this time fromto(I sincerely hope to be able to revert back tobefore the end of the season).
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok Nuneaton, Top and the board funked up royally for the timing of the Rodgers sacking and the lack of planning for a replacement.

Aside from that I totally agree with everything you and Foxello have said in your latest posts. I can’t help but feel we’re cooked but we can’t give up and we must back the players and management for all the reasons you’ve said.

If we did go down it would be the biggest proof on whether we’re a shambles or we’ll run based on how Top and the board dealt with it. That would be a huge test of their competence and commitment.