From the likes of Pep, Klopp and lego head
Just to be clear, this isn't a dig at Ange, I love how much the club has changed & evolved since he joined BUT.........
For all talk about our attacking approach etc it's starting to look a bit silly when put into context with what the likes of City, Arsenal and Liverpool are doing to teams. Unlike us, the balance of their teams is far better, threre's no need for a ridiculous high line and leaving the likes of Cuti, VDV & Vic exposed. Their games are controlled, efficient and they are battering teams in a way we have not.
Like I said, I'm delighted with Ange but its becoming very clear that his brand of kamikaze football is never gonna win anything in the way these other teams are capable of. The number of games where we gift teams easy goals and then have to go after heart attack inducing comebacks is great fun but all a bit unnecessary!!!
Everything is moving in the right direction, but I just hope Ange isn't too stubborn, realizes he's playing with the big boys and learns a thing or too.... Dialing it back a bit is the right thing to do now we are getting to the business end of the season.
I hope we don't blow our top 4 chances because we have become too obsessed with winning some kind of media popularity contest.
COYS
Perhaps Ange could learn a thing or 2
posted on 5/3/24
comment by Kamikaze Blue (U7450)
posted 5 hours, 15 minutes ago
God but you have some moaning minnies in your fanbase. You're 5 points off fourth with a game in hand, and well clear of 6th. You'll win feck all this year, but you will be in a great place to build from. Give him a proper window and then judge Angeball.
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I agree with this
posted on 5/3/24
On the original post.... there is a point in games, towards the end, say the last ten minutes, when Aussieglue could learn to change tactics and defend a one goal lead.
There have been a couple of these situations when we've been suckered with late goals because he won't ever park the bus.
Does he even know how?
posted on 5/3/24
comment by JustCallMeTed (U21528)
posted 27 minutes ago
On the original post.... there is a point in games, towards the end, say the last ten minutes, when Aussieglue could learn to change tactics and defend a one goal lead.
There have been a couple of these situations when we've been suckered with late goals because he won't ever park the bus.
Does he even know how?
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This is wrong.
Look at the subs made at 2-1 at the weekend.
Hojbjerg and Sarr on for Madders and Werner at 82 minutes
These are the sorts of changes we made earlier in the season when bench options were there and we had a full squad to chose from.. we have missed Sarr and Bissouma a lot in the last few months so it's been more difficult to see out games at times.
posted on 5/3/24
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 49 minutes ago
comment by JustCallMeTed (U21528)
posted 27 minutes ago
On the original post.... there is a point in games, towards the end, say the last ten minutes, when Aussieglue could learn to change tactics and defend a one goal lead.
There have been a couple of these situations when we've been suckered with late goals because he won't ever park the bus.
Does he even know how?
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This is wrong.
Look at the subs made at 2-1 at the weekend.
Hojbjerg and Sarr on for Madders and Werner at 82 minutes
These are the sorts of changes we made earlier in the season when bench options were there and we had a full squad to chose from.. we have missed Sarr and Bissouma a lot in the last few months so it's been more difficult to see out games at times.
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If you sort thru all our games, you'll find examples of what I'm talking about.
posted on 6/3/24
Lots of good football and some really good, if slightly inconsistent results despite a lot of injuries and suspensions.
No, the team isn't likely to win anything in its current form. But you have to assume the team will be improved in the coming seasons, just like Arsenal and Liverpool were when their managers were in the first year and not quite firing on all cylinders yet.
Patience is key
posted on 6/3/24
Meant to say also: you'd also like to assume Ange will refine his methods over time too, especially as his squad options improve.
posted on 6/3/24
Our biggest issue is playing against sides with a low block and speed up top - Wolves and West Ham caused us a lot of issues this season, although I don’t think Moyes can park the bus in the home game without getting tarred and feathered by his own fans.
We’ve seen this struggle before with Redknapp and Poch - once the team figure it out we will continue to dominate these sides and not get caught out anywhere near as often.
Back up for Maddison and another lightening quick CB is vital in the summer to give us the options needed when injuries strike. It might be they think Bergvall is ready to back up Maddison. We have Vuskovic to come in at CB as well - but I do not believe he is insanely fast like VDV.
The future is looking very bright though, this team could be a real force in a couple of seasons
posted on 6/3/24
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 13 hours, 29 minutes ago
I don't think our tactics are naive, they just haven't been mastered yet, which is understandable given all the changes that have occurred and the need for greater strength in depth.
Teams develop over years, they learn how to cope with different circumstances and situations, how to deal with different opponents. Right now I see us as focussing on ourselves, and how we play and the patterns and combinations, almost regardless of who the opposition are. This will be refined over time as we learn what works and when.
As long as we continue to see development I think we have no reason to question the approach. And be realistic about what levels and consistency we achieve this season given its still early stages and the big disruption in player availability
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Agreed. I think it's about personnel too though. Ange is still working with a lot of inherited players, some of whom might not be perfect for his style, even those in the current first 11. The reason why Angeball looks so vulnerable is because it doesn't suit a team that doesn't have the ball. If City didn't have the profile of players they have to control a game, you just watch how vulnerable they'd look too. It's about controlling games and we're still figuring that out. Sometimes it's about buying the right player which I guess is my only worry as that's where Ange needs help from Levy. City can just go out and get the best players to fit the system. It's harder for us. Klopp was successful because he was allowed to buy big names at high prices to suit his system. Same for Arteta and Pep. It's not rocket science. You need money. If it could be done on a budget, Brighton would be storming it but they're not are they?! At the end of the day football isn't as complex as people make it. It's about good players and good players cost money.
posted on 6/3/24
Agreed fridge.
Take Rodri out of City and suddenly they start losing games. They play a high line like us but rely on Walkers pace while we rely on VDV.
While Rodri shields the back complemented by Stones also stepping into midfield.
Our CBs stay put but our FBs step forward into attack.
I would say the key difference between us and City's set up is that they tend to play 3 cbs, one at FB and one steps into midfield when in possession. With walker offering recovery pace and cover, they generally have 3 at the back when defending counters, plus 2 in CM.
We tend to have 2 CBs, 2 CMs with the FBs and attackers including maddison in advanced areas. So we probably have one less man to defend counter attacks so are a bit more exposed.
I do feel that our FBs have eased off their all out attack approach a bit since early season, with one holding back a bit more while the ball is on the opposite side and if we want a similar 5 players able to recover position quickly then this is necessary.
But overall I think our press in their defensive third has become less intense, allowing better teams outballs and to expose our back line.
In terms of personnel it is also a case that we have seen errors from Udogie and Bissouma that have directly resulted in goals on quick counters and these situations happen far less with the likes of City whole look after the ball better and make less mistakes.
posted on 6/3/24
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 2 hours, 15 minutes ago
Agreed fridge.
Take Rodri out of City and suddenly they start losing games. They play a high line like us but rely on Walkers pace while we rely on VDV.
While Rodri shields the back complemented by Stones also stepping into midfield.
Our CBs stay put but our FBs step forward into attack.
I would say the key difference between us and City's set up is that they tend to play 3 cbs, one at FB and one steps into midfield when in possession. With walker offering recovery pace and cover, they generally have 3 at the back when defending counters, plus 2 in CM.
We tend to have 2 CBs, 2 CMs with the FBs and attackers including maddison in advanced areas. So we probably have one less man to defend counter attacks so are a bit more exposed.
I do feel that our FBs have eased off their all out attack approach a bit since early season, with one holding back a bit more while the ball is on the opposite side and if we want a similar 5 players able to recover position quickly then this is necessary.
But overall I think our press in their defensive third has become less intense, allowing better teams outballs and to expose our back line.
In terms of personnel it is also a case that we have seen errors from Udogie and Bissouma that have directly resulted in goals on quick counters and these situations happen far less with the likes of City whole look after the ball better and make less mistakes.
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Yep, and I think I mentioned this on another thread but Pep has definitely tweaked things in the last couple of years. I think he recognised that although Cancelo was an amazing technical player, he didn't offer the same defensive stability Pep needed. He now has three centre backs in his preferred starting 11 - Stones (free role), Dias and Ake as well as Walker for the recovery runs. That's without considering Gvardiol at left back when he comes back in and the formation is tweaked again. That's alongside Rodri so the idea that Pep is all about attacking football is completely wrong. Ange is definitely different because it's far higher risk with instinctively attacking full backs but without that Rodri figure controlling the game. That's where I think we're going wrong. We're not controlling games and like you say the high press has dropped off. Without pressure on the ball, a high line is suicide. Against Palace I noticed Sonny pressing but I couldn't see the second and third player doing the same. That's useless. You can't press with one. It's a total waste of time. There's definitely been a drop off there. Whether that's fitness/injury I don't know but that hunting in packs philosophy has definitely dropped off.