They play with no urgency , no passion and no pride.
Manager after manager , these players look the same They don't want to put in the effort to improve the performances and results.
Yes Ruben Amorim is not helping himself with some of his stubborn decisions picking the same rubbish players and his insisting on playing the same failed system every game.
But these players , who are all supposed to be professional footballers , just cannot seem to put in work and effort to learn a new system.
They complained about the hard work they had to do in training under Mourinho , then Ole and Rangnick and it looks like it's the same story again now.
I personally would get rid of 70% of these players in the summer and do a complete overhaul of the team.
The players
posted on 3/3/25
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 13 hours, 26 minutes ago
If you watched that game and think we went out due to lack of effort then you need to take up a new hobby.
There wasn't a lack of effort today at all. The players gave everything they had. What's letting us down is a severe lack of quality. They just aren't very good footballers but for whatever reason our fans think it's just lack of effort holding them back.
The truth is a lot scarier. We have a bottom half squad and two forwards who wouldn't start for any PL team bar maybe Southampton.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I assume the 2 forwards you are referring to re Hojlund and Zirkzee. That's harsh on Zirkzee imo who is showing plenty of moments of quality and would thrive if he actually had quality around him and not rubbish like Hojlund and Garnacho on current form.
posted on 3/3/25
comment by Ali - 🇪🇦 🏴 (U1192)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 45 minutes ago
comment by Custardeyes (U4500)
posted 6 hours, 2 minutes ago
comment by Redastomatoes- Feels very Moyesian...cleverson... (U12026)
posted 33 minutes ago
comment by FFS Mike. (U1170)
posted 3 hours, 7 minutes ago
People always say they’ve failed under all these managers etc but it’s a completely different set of players now from Ten Hag onwards bar a couple.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It really isn't though. The core remains the same. The best players are just average and define our limit. Tomorrow someone will say Bruno saves us but I say if Bruno is your best player, we are a mud table team. From Maguire to Eriksen and every flimsy player way past it or getting near to it in between have to go. They must go.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You're right, but who are United to replace them with? According to nearly all sources there's very little room financially for transfers in, and, other than hoping that our loan players start pulling up trees that's unlikely to change.
In short, it's not getting better soon, and I've got a four hour drive coming up 😭
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's not start Bruno bashing again. He is the one quality player for us who has generally performed well since he got here and has pretty much been carrying the team since he arrived.
Of course he has faults, but any player would struggle in the role he has been asked to play.
If we had 4 or 5 other players who performed to his level, we would be a lot higher up the league.
It's hard to say why the rest of them are generally performing so badly - there are exceptions from time to time, but they seem to have occasional purple patches rather than play consistently well.
Just got to hope that during next pre-season, our younger players develop and we have some real gems amongst them and the younger ones we have in the squad.
And try and find some astute experienced heads who can help them develop - tough in our current situation i know.
It's a long way to the end of this season, but we will probably trundle along and finish around 10th and then it is really how we start next season and if we can show the improvement we are all hoping for once Amorim gets a full pre-season with them
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Admire your optimism but a pre season isn't going to make a single bit of difference with this lot.
Ruben needs to be more flexible as a manager otherwise we may as well sack him now.
If you have one way of playing (not a good one either), how far can it really take you? You get found out eventually.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think that there is something in Amorim that says, I need to prove that my 3-4-3 works, rather than, I need to prove that I can manage this club. He is still a young manager, and it may be that he can get 3-4-3 to work with the right players in due course, but he's trying to show his strength of mind etc by sticking to his principals etc.
It's very easy for us from the sidelines to say, look, tweak it a little until you get the right players but rightly or wrongly (and on this point i think wrongly) he doesn't seem to have the insight to be able to accept that for now he has to tweak 3-4-3. He may view by changing as a failure for not sticking to his principals, and it's almost as if he has come too far to change course.
I guess that is what pressure does to you, but we will see what happens in the summer.
I also think we can get a bit too fixated with the 3-4-3. Maybe I am too simple, but is it that difficult for these players to adapt to the system? There must be more to it than simply, we aren't use to playing 3-4-3. It's seems ages ago, but there were some encouraging performances not so long ago, but recently it has gone a bit to pot, albeit with some untimely injuries.
I think it will make a difference that we have clarity on loan players (assuming they all leave in the summer), and as I said before, the younger members of the squad develop etc.
It wasn't too long into ETH's 2nd season that I didn't feel he was right. I haven't got there with Amorim, but there needs to be encouraging signs early on next season that some sort o corner has been turned.
Whether he eventually does that, or is able to turn things round in the summer, who knows, but i am sure if he was further down the line in his management career he would probably be willing to change things if that is necessary.
posted on 3/3/25
comment by The Process (U20671)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by Tyranny of the majority (SE85) (U21241)
posted 13 hours, 26 minutes ago
If you watched that game and think we went out due to lack of effort then you need to take up a new hobby.
There wasn't a lack of effort today at all. The players gave everything they had. What's letting us down is a severe lack of quality. They just aren't very good footballers but for whatever reason our fans think it's just lack of effort holding them back.
The truth is a lot scarier. We have a bottom half squad and two forwards who wouldn't start for any PL team bar maybe Southampton.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I assume the 2 forwards you are referring to re Hojlund and Zirkzee. That's harsh on Zirkzee imo who is showing plenty of moments of quality and would thrive if he actually had quality around him and not rubbish like Hojlund and Garnacho on current form.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's the thing - there will be varying opinions on those 3, with some more sympathetic to certain players than others. On all 3, I don't think they are terrible, but they have to show they can produce a good consistent standard, but that has been shown to be tough for anyone in this squad.
I doubt any of the 3 will leave in the summer, despite all the rumours, and hopefully next season can feel like a fresh start
posted on 3/3/25
What ‘core’ of players are we still starting that have failed to apply themselves under Rangnick, Mourinho and Ole?
posted on 3/3/25
The most worrying thing is we have actually got more shiyte the more time we’ve had free to spend on the training ground with Amorim.
posted on 3/3/25
If he's going to stick with the 343 then I wouldn't be against playing Casemiro in the back three. He at least looks to get the ball forward and it could easily morph into a 4321 too. It could also be a way of getting an extra midfielder in there without admitting to a change of formation! After all is having a really deep DM all that different to three CBs?
posted on 3/3/25
comment by FFS Mike. (U1170)
posted 11 minutes ago
The most worrying thing is we have actually got more shiyte the more time we’ve had free to spend on the training ground with Amorim.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is what I've been most disappointed with. I think Amorim made an ok start, then we got some decent results against Liverpool, City (albeit a struggling City side at the time), Arsenal in the cup, which all weren't down to luck, mixed in with some indifferent ones. I thought, ok, it seems we will make 2 steps forward and maybe 1 back, but hopefully show gradual improvement.
But in last 6 weeks or so, and I know we have injuries, but there feels like a real decline and we are relying on individual bits of brilliance rather than a good team performance. I don't actually think it relates to whether we are playing 3-4-3 or whatever, just feels like a heavy weight mentally around the squad that is weighing us down.
I know we are better on the counter-attack and when the onus is on us to attack we can struggle at times, but a team that can put in good performances against the top teams should be capable of better against lesser ones.
posted on 3/3/25
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA... (U2462)
posted 19 minutes ago
If he's going to stick with the 343 then I wouldn't be against playing Casemiro in the back three. He at least looks to get the ball forward and it could easily morph into a 4321 too. It could also be a way of getting an extra midfielder in there without admitting to a change of formation! After all is having a really deep DM all that different to three CBs?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's all about that back 3 being more pro-active in stepping up and having the confidence to do that. I'm not sure how comfortable Cas would be playing there - it seems a simple enough transition from DM to CB, but I could see Cas getting caught out against decent forwards.
posted on 3/3/25
We don't have any players, so unless Ruben is given 3 or 4 years to shape this team then we may as well get rid of him.
The likes of
Onana
Dalot
Maguire
Shaw
Martinez
Casemiro
Eriksen
Rashford
Antony
Lindleoff
Mount
Evans
Literally all need to leave the club.
We have no money to replace any of them with anyone decent.
Do you think Ruben is going to be afforded the time we get rid of that lot and get his own players in? That's like 4/5 windows we're talking about, potentially more. Not a chance, in my opinion.... So just sack him now.
posted on 3/3/25
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 40 minutes ago
comment by Diafol Coch 77 🏴 JA... (U2462)
posted 19 minutes ago
If he's going to stick with the 343 then I wouldn't be against playing Casemiro in the back three. He at least looks to get the ball forward and it could easily morph into a 4321 too. It could also be a way of getting an extra midfielder in there without admitting to a change of formation! After all is having a really deep DM all that different to three CBs?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's all about that back 3 being more pro-active in stepping up and having the confidence to do that. I'm not sure how comfortable Cas would be playing there - it seems a simple enough transition from DM to CB, but I could see Cas getting caught out against decent forwards.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, it's not perfect my idea of course but often I feel we have too many players back there which makes it difficult to sustain attacks.