With the news coming through today from Matt Law that Spurs will need to sell before buying this summer, despite having more PSR headroom than any other club, what's being ignored is just how much progress a club can make and still be within the rules. Look at this astounding stat...
https://x.com/lilywhite_rose/status/1916805173223006403?s=46
"Since Enic’s £97.5 million share issue, a total of 13 English clubs received more owner funding, while the owners of Tottenham’s rivals Aston Villa have poured over £600 million into the club since their takeover in 2018."
We're being sold the myth that sustainability is at the very heart of decision making and that careful spending is ultimately for the good of the club. It's absolute bullshiiiiit. Aston Villa are in no financial trouble yet their owners have ploughed £600 million into the club since their takeover, in less than 6 years. ENIC have owned Spurs for nearly 25 years and have barely injected 100m over that time. This is about ownership intent. It's pretty clear and transparent looking at Villa's rise that progress can be made with money. PSR rules aren't a barrier to success as many will have us believe. PSR rules are also across the football league, but Wrexham's success proves that it's about intent and owner backing above anything. Their's isn't a fairytale. It's just further evidence that investment accelerates success.
I'm so tired of being fed this line that ultimately it's about the long term protection of the club. Anyone that truly believes that from Levy is being hoodwinked. It's about an unwillingness to spend. That's it. He wants success, sure, as we all do, but he's not willing to pay for it.
He's a miser and he's not on our side.
Yours, a fan bereft of hope.
Yours, Daniel...
posted on 29/4/25
comment by Mack follows change for Tottenham (U6574)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 7 hours, 38 minutes ago
comment by Mack follows change for Tottenham (U6574)
posted 1 hour, 47 minutes ago
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 12 hours, 47 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 43 minutes ago
Which players have we lost out on due to wages?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Always thought Mane was a good example of where we didn’t offer the wages but Liverpool did …..could be wrong
We then went and spent more fee on sissoko but he was less wages
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There are also all the players we wouldn’t even bid on because we know they would want more wages than we are willing to pay. We would NEVER have been in the conversation for Rice, despite being the perfect player for us. That’s why we are still not a top football club. We won’t be in the conversation for players like Delap for example. We would rather sign four players who we might make profit on for the same money. Our ‘rivals’ will always pay more, because they prioritise winning.
If you pay levy enough, you’re even allowed to play a rivals anthem at our stadium now. That’s how far it’s gone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arsenal had just come 2nd, were on an upwards trajectory and Spurs were 8th having burnt through 1 manager and 2 care takers in a season....and we werent in the conversation for Rice because we wouldnt pay that money
Give your head a wobble. When Arsenal were 8th, they were also signing young prospects aged 22 and less like Gabriel, Odegaard, Ben White, Ramsdale alongside some quality sorts like Tavares, Lockonga, Mari, Soares. Their only signing of note was Partey, aged 27 and Willian on a free, 32.
I am not saying we would have bid what Arsenal did for Rice, we don't know, but Rice is a ridiculous example of a player we were "never in the conversation for"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can I ask you a question
Do you think Daniel levy prioritises football success over everything else ?
If the answer is no, why do you continue to defend him and support him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Over everything else? No. But everything else also means the financial stability of the club.
There isnt really a modern day equivalent of "doing a Leeds" but you can certainly do an Everton or a Man Utd and completely feck up your finances while pursuing glory, to the extent that the come back takes years.
Personally i made peace with the fact that Spurs will not take big risk years ago, we'll spend what we earn.
I do not think any fan has the right to demand that the owners do more than that, especially the ones rooted to their arm chairs.
Run the club well, make as much money as you can and spend it wisely within a structure of good appointments. That's basically what Liverpool have done. They havent flirted with huge debt, financial meltdown or made mega signings or offered silly wages (other than rewarding their senior pros).
Spurs, with revenues of £500-600m should be able to put themselves in a position to challenge top 6 without fail and have expectations of even better. The reason we haven't this season, or kicked on from last season, is not as simple as a lack of ambition.
Fans throw terms like "show ambition" around like confetti, but they apply no context.
As i commented above, the squad has been rebuilt and some expect all the incoming to be Ezes and Netos and Rayas etc, oven ready, hit the ground running type signings that get the job done from day 1. This is stupidity.
I mention Arsenal's rebuild because it is the best example of a big club, clearing out and and starting a fresh. It took 4 seasons to get to top 4 for them.
Honestly, go to transfermkt and look at their signings under Arteta. Relatively cheap youngsters bought years ago now form the basis of their squad and in recent years they have added the individual quality with the likes of Rice. But lets not foget, in his third season Spurs were embarrassing Holding at WHL as we beat them to 4th - 3 years in with Arteta and they were still relying on Holding.
Its just an example of how these thing develop, how long it takes, how every signing isnt for instant impact, or necessarily a success, how a complete squad is a rarity (they still lack a decent striker and struggle to cover Saka).
I feel Spurs fans have become so toxic that an Arteta would not survive. 2 seasons of 8th and he'd be driven out as Levy is targeted at the same time. I can get why Spurs fans are impatient but now im reading comments on here with fans talking down a possible Europa success. That's just pure toxicity where they are more concerned about attacking Ange or Levy. Agendas that have gone beyond purely wanting success for their team.
posted on 29/4/25
The hate for Ange levy and Enic shoukd be on the back burner til after our Europa campaign
Fans and the club all need to pull in the same direction …..everyone surely wants the Europa above all else
posted on 29/4/25
Just thought I’d drop this here again. This is ages ago but the same criticisms apply.
https://x.com/kulu_thfc/status/1917266370644898293?s=46
posted on 29/4/25
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 4 hours, 40 minutes ago
comment by Mack follows change for Tottenham (U6574)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 7 hours, 38 minutes ago
comment by Mack follows change for Tottenham (U6574)
posted 1 hour, 47 minutes ago
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 12 hours, 47 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 43 minutes ago
Which players have we lost out on due to wages?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Always thought Mane was a good example of where we didn’t offer the wages but Liverpool did …..could be wrong
We then went and spent more fee on sissoko but he was less wages
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There are also all the players we wouldn’t even bid on because we know they would want more wages than we are willing to pay. We would NEVER have been in the conversation for Rice, despite being the perfect player for us. That’s why we are still not a top football club. We won’t be in the conversation for players like Delap for example. We would rather sign four players who we might make profit on for the same money. Our ‘rivals’ will always pay more, because they prioritise winning.
If you pay levy enough, you’re even allowed to play a rivals anthem at our stadium now. That’s how far it’s gone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arsenal had just come 2nd, were on an upwards trajectory and Spurs were 8th having burnt through 1 manager and 2 care takers in a season....and we werent in the conversation for Rice because we wouldnt pay that money
Give your head a wobble. When Arsenal were 8th, they were also signing young prospects aged 22 and less like Gabriel, Odegaard, Ben White, Ramsdale alongside some quality sorts like Tavares, Lockonga, Mari, Soares. Their only signing of note was Partey, aged 27 and Willian on a free, 32.
I am not saying we would have bid what Arsenal did for Rice, we don't know, but Rice is a ridiculous example of a player we were "never in the conversation for"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can I ask you a question
Do you think Daniel levy prioritises football success over everything else ?
If the answer is no, why do you continue to defend him and support him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Over everything else? No. But everything else also means the financial stability of the club.
There isnt really a modern day equivalent of "doing a Leeds" but you can certainly do an Everton or a Man Utd and completely feck up your finances while pursuing glory, to the extent that the come back takes years.
Personally i made peace with the fact that Spurs will not take big risk years ago, we'll spend what we earn.
I do not think any fan has the right to demand that the owners do more than that, especially the ones rooted to their arm chairs.
Run the club well, make as much money as you can and spend it wisely within a structure of good appointments. That's basically what Liverpool have done. They havent flirted with huge debt, financial meltdown or made mega signings or offered silly wages (other than rewarding their senior pros).
Spurs, with revenues of £500-600m should be able to put themselves in a position to challenge top 6 without fail and have expectations of even better. The reason we haven't this season, or kicked on from last season, is not as simple as a lack of ambition.
Fans throw terms like "show ambition" around like confetti, but they apply no context.
As i commented above, the squad has been rebuilt and some expect all the incoming to be Ezes and Netos and Rayas etc, oven ready, hit the ground running type signings that get the job done from day 1. This is stupidity.
I mention Arsenal's rebuild because it is the best example of a big club, clearing out and and starting a fresh. It took 4 seasons to get to top 4 for them.
Honestly, go to transfermkt and look at their signings under Arteta. Relatively cheap youngsters bought years ago now form the basis of their squad and in recent years they have added the individual quality with the likes of Rice. But lets not foget, in his third season Spurs were embarrassing Holding at WHL as we beat them to 4th - 3 years in with Arteta and they were still relying on Holding.
Its just an example of how these thing develop, how long it takes, how every signing isnt for instant impact, or necessarily a success, how a complete squad is a rarity (they still lack a decent striker and struggle to cover Saka).
I feel Spurs fans have become so toxic that an Arteta would not survive. 2 seasons of 8th and he'd be driven out as Levy is targeted at the same time. I can get why Spurs fans are impatient but now im reading comments on here with fans talking down a possible Europa success. That's just pure toxicity where they are more concerned about attacking Ange or Levy. Agendas that have gone beyond purely wanting success for their team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is such an awful take it really is. On what planet is signing a player from Palace, Wolves or Brentford seen as stupid? The only reason we didn’t go for any of them is because we just won’t pay the wages they want. We pulled out of the Raya deal and went £5m cheaper with Vicario. We pulled out of Eze or Neto and spent 30m on Odobert. What we tend to do is go cheap which more often than not means replacing again because ultimately they’re not very good. By not paying the price for proven prem talent, we’re actually spending more replacing players we gambled on for peanuts. Look at the train wreck of right full backs we signed post Walker/Trippier. We spend a lot on transfer fees because so many of the signings we make aren’t in the elite bracket, therefore there’s more footballing risk involved, if not financial.
It’s such a counter-productive model. Arsenal and Liverpool only stretched ahead of us because they pushed the boat out in the market, not on 5 or 6 low risk gambles, but 1-2 top class guarantees.
I’m so sick of your defence of Levy. It’s utter, utter nonsense. We CAN spend more, particularly on wages to attract the better players, but we won’t. You can call it sustainability all you want but it’s only ever about profit. I want that cvnt gone and out the door asap. Virtually every Spurs fan feels the same way. If you’re the lone voice of opposition, you’re probably wrong.
posted on 30/4/25
Devon, you’re all over the place here. You’re too far gone I fear.
The ‘toxicity’ of the fan base is a creation solely made by Daniel levy. His continued exploitation of fan loyalty with ticket prices and concession cuts coupled with his utter failure to deliver on the pitch, is the sole cause. You can’t keep charging for caviar and delivering McDonald’s. People will get p155ed off
If you can’t see the complete unbalance of the commercial success to the football success showing just how much levy prioritises everything BUT football, I don’t know what to say. Football should be the reason for everything at the club. Do you think Liverpool would allow an Everton anthem to be played at their stadium? I bet levy didn’t even notice when it was in the roster.
I will always stick up for the spurs fans. I’m amazed that they continue to sell out the ground, spend thousands following the team, in the face of 25 years of levy incompetence, apathy and downright exploitation.
After everything, moving stadiums, raising prices, not signing anyone for two years, not backing Poch, then sacking Poch etc etc, we are about to probably finish 16 or 17th. That is totally and utterly unacceptable.
Change for Tottenham. Levy has had his chances and he has proven he is either incompetent or unwilling to move us on.
posted on 30/4/25
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 9 hours, 48 minutes ago
Just thought I’d drop this here again. This is ages ago but the same criticisms apply.
https://x.com/kulu_thfc/status/1917266370644898293?s=46
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Damnnnnn everything he said came to pass. Show this to levy
posted on 30/4/25
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 10 hours, 22 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 4 hours, 40 minutes ago
comment by Mack follows change for Tottenham (U6574)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 7 hours, 38 minutes ago
comment by Mack follows change for Tottenham (U6574)
posted 1 hour, 47 minutes ago
comment by Blackpolespur (U9242)
posted 12 hours, 47 minutes ago
comment by Devonshirespur (U6316)
posted 43 minutes ago
Which players have we lost out on due to wages?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Always thought Mane was a good example of where we didn’t offer the wages but Liverpool did …..could be wrong
We then went and spent more fee on sissoko but he was less wages
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There are also all the players we wouldn’t even bid on because we know they would want more wages than we are willing to pay. We would NEVER have been in the conversation for Rice, despite being the perfect player for us. That’s why we are still not a top football club. We won’t be in the conversation for players like Delap for example. We would rather sign four players who we might make profit on for the same money. Our ‘rivals’ will always pay more, because they prioritise winning.
If you pay levy enough, you’re even allowed to play a rivals anthem at our stadium now. That’s how far it’s gone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Arsenal had just come 2nd, were on an upwards trajectory and Spurs were 8th having burnt through 1 manager and 2 care takers in a season....and we werent in the conversation for Rice because we wouldnt pay that money
Give your head a wobble. When Arsenal were 8th, they were also signing young prospects aged 22 and less like Gabriel, Odegaard, Ben White, Ramsdale alongside some quality sorts like Tavares, Lockonga, Mari, Soares. Their only signing of note was Partey, aged 27 and Willian on a free, 32.
I am not saying we would have bid what Arsenal did for Rice, we don't know, but Rice is a ridiculous example of a player we were "never in the conversation for"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Can I ask you a question
Do you think Daniel levy prioritises football success over everything else ?
If the answer is no, why do you continue to defend him and support him?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Over everything else? No. But everything else also means the financial stability of the club.
There isnt really a modern day equivalent of "doing a Leeds" but you can certainly do an Everton or a Man Utd and completely feck up your finances while pursuing glory, to the extent that the come back takes years.
Personally i made peace with the fact that Spurs will not take big risk years ago, we'll spend what we earn.
I do not think any fan has the right to demand that the owners do more than that, especially the ones rooted to their arm chairs.
Run the club well, make as much money as you can and spend it wisely within a structure of good appointments. That's basically what Liverpool have done. They havent flirted with huge debt, financial meltdown or made mega signings or offered silly wages (other than rewarding their senior pros).
Spurs, with revenues of £500-600m should be able to put themselves in a position to challenge top 6 without fail and have expectations of even better. The reason we haven't this season, or kicked on from last season, is not as simple as a lack of ambition.
Fans throw terms like "show ambition" around like confetti, but they apply no context.
As i commented above, the squad has been rebuilt and some expect all the incoming to be Ezes and Netos and Rayas etc, oven ready, hit the ground running type signings that get the job done from day 1. This is stupidity.
I mention Arsenal's rebuild because it is the best example of a big club, clearing out and and starting a fresh. It took 4 seasons to get to top 4 for them.
Honestly, go to transfermkt and look at their signings under Arteta. Relatively cheap youngsters bought years ago now form the basis of their squad and in recent years they have added the individual quality with the likes of Rice. But lets not foget, in his third season Spurs were embarrassing Holding at WHL as we beat them to 4th - 3 years in with Arteta and they were still relying on Holding.
Its just an example of how these thing develop, how long it takes, how every signing isnt for instant impact, or necessarily a success, how a complete squad is a rarity (they still lack a decent striker and struggle to cover Saka).
I feel Spurs fans have become so toxic that an Arteta would not survive. 2 seasons of 8th and he'd be driven out as Levy is targeted at the same time. I can get why Spurs fans are impatient but now im reading comments on here with fans talking down a possible Europa success. That's just pure toxicity where they are more concerned about attacking Ange or Levy. Agendas that have gone beyond purely wanting success for their team.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is such an awful take it really is. On what planet is signing a player from Palace, Wolves or Brentford seen as stupid? The only reason we didn’t go for any of them is because we just won’t pay the wages they want. We pulled out of the Raya deal and went £5m cheaper with Vicario. We pulled out of Eze or Neto and spent 30m on Odobert. What we tend to do is go cheap which more often than not means replacing again because ultimately they’re not very good. By not paying the price for proven prem talent, we’re actually spending more replacing players we gambled on for peanuts. Look at the train wreck of right full backs we signed post Walker/Trippier. We spend a lot on transfer fees because so many of the signings we make aren’t in the elite bracket, therefore there’s more footballing risk involved, if not financial.
It’s such a counter-productive model. Arsenal and Liverpool only stretched ahead of us because they pushed the boat out in the market, not on 5 or 6 low risk gambles, but 1-2 top class guarantees.
I’m so sick of your defence of Levy. It’s utter, utter nonsense. We CAN spend more, particularly on wages to attract the better players, but we won’t. You can call it sustainability all you want but it’s only ever about profit. I want that cvnt gone and out the door asap. Virtually every Spurs fan feels the same way. If you’re the lone voice of opposition, you’re probably wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You have slightly miss understood what i have said.
I am not saying buying the likes of Eze is stupid, just that given the amount of players we have had to move on and replace, the ability to replace them all with 'ambitious' signings is not possible. Its stupid to think it is possible to afford to bring in lots of ambitious signings like Eze etc to replace the mass outgoings.
Last summer the priority was a striker and we spent £65m on Solanke - That happened to be the 2nd biggest signing in Europe (probably the world) last summer.
It seems to me that some would be happier if we paid him double what we are, as some sort of sign of ambition.
We have spent £350-400m under Ange but have brought in something like 14 players. There has been and needs to be a blend of age/experience/cost because we cannot afford to make such widespread changes all at the highest level.
To say we dont buy players because of wages is also a misleading simple statement. It's the whole package - Werner is on £170k a week, but cost us a few million in loan fees. Solanke cost us £65m but is on £100k a week. Eze @ £75m and £200k a week, for example would costs us more than holding both players. It is a balance. We have held Werner to fill a role that we could not afford to fill with a big signing. We may look to go big this summer in that area - all part of a planned strategy over time to improve the squad and bring it to a peak.
Your claims like "we can spend more, especially on wages" and here we are, on your thread which leads with Matt Laws story about how we have to sell to buy. So that's a total contradiction!
Im not sticking up for Levy, per se, im just pushing back on wild claims from fans that Spurs have all this money we can spend but arent.
The other thing i would say (repeat) is that we are in a rebuild process. This league season has gone south largely due to Ange. It hasnt worked out and his life has been made very hard by massive injuries but even allowing for that it has not been good enough.
If one accepts that Spurs, like Arsenal under Arteta's first 3 seasons, are in a process of rebuilding, completely renewing the squad, then one has to accept that this process will take time and its working towards a period when we peak....its not a case of rebuilding a poor squad and making it peak inside 2 years. That simply doesnt happen. Most will agree that much of the squad is very good but it needs a few final pieces (and a new coach) to make it more complete.
I think if we replaced Richarlison, Bissouma, Werner with quality we are in a very strong position Its a position that needs a quality coach to make the difference.
posted on 30/4/25
comment by Mack follows change for Tottenham (U6574)
posted 2 hours, 43 minutes ago
Devon, you’re all over the place here. You’re too far gone I fear.
The ‘toxicity’ of the fan base is a creation solely made by Daniel levy. His continued exploitation of fan loyalty with ticket prices and concession cuts coupled with his utter failure to deliver on the pitch, is the sole cause. You can’t keep charging for caviar and delivering McDonald’s. People will get p155ed off
If you can’t see the complete unbalance of the commercial success to the football success showing just how much levy prioritises everything BUT football, I don’t know what to say. Football should be the reason for everything at the club. Do you think Liverpool would allow an Everton anthem to be played at their stadium? I bet levy didn’t even notice when it was in the roster.
I will always stick up for the spurs fans. I’m amazed that they continue to sell out the ground, spend thousands following the team, in the face of 25 years of levy incompetence, apathy and downright exploitation.
After everything, moving stadiums, raising prices, not signing anyone for two years, not backing Poch, then sacking Poch etc etc, we are about to probably finish 16 or 17th. That is totally and utterly unacceptable.
Change for Tottenham. Levy has had his chances and he has proven he is either incompetent or unwilling to move us on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Do you think Liverpool would allow an Everton anthem to be played at their stadium? "
This sums it up for me, with many 'internet based' fans
Honestly who gives a shiiit about this issue. It's the toxicity of fans who will find any reason to have a go at the club that i find hard to stay silent on.
That and criticism based on little or no fact, using soundbites which tell about 10% of the story.
We average 4th - 5th place over the last 15 years or so. This season has been a massive feck up, but it is not the norm and it is not reflective of the quality of our squad. It is not acceptable either, but the reaction is OTT.
But to use our dreadful league form (which has been hugely impacted by injuries) as a reason to judge everything would be like us winning the Europa and saying everything's fine, lets carry on as we have.
What I promote is balance. Everything is not fine, but at the same time everything is not a disaster. The squad needs further quality added, but it is not a total disaster either. We need to add real quality to move forward but that needs to be affordable. We need to show more ambition, but its not as if we have not shown any.
Listen to many on here and they say the squads rubbish, the managers rubbish, we shown no ambition, we dont spend money, we only pay small wages and all of this is on the owners.
The real situation is somewhere in the middle and that's the ground i occupy.
Im off to the game tomorrow, with my 2 boys. We 100% have the quality to win that game and anything less will very disappointing. If we fail it will not be because Bode have shown more ambition than us, pay more wages etc it will be on the coach and on the players. This is where the buck stops tomorrow, a fully fit squad bar Dragusin & Son, assembled for something like £0.7bn. The club has been put in a position where we absolutely have the quality to make the Europa League final.
posted on 30/4/25
Dev,
No one is asking for a team full of stars. We’re aware we’re not Madrid but the point is that we haven’t signed any star player, someone really proven in the Prem, other than maybe Maddison. He was only affordable because he’d just been relegated with his contract in its final year, so we could offset his higher wages with a lower transfer fee. The word was that Eze and Neto were absolutely wanted by Ange. We got neither. Why? Because we either pulled out because the deal became too rich, or we got gazumped by more ambitious clubs with deeper pockets. Are they deeper though? Do Chelsea really generate more revenue than we do? Not a chance. That’s my point. Chelsea have made a pig’s ear of this new project but you can never question their ambition. They’ve made mistakes but they do push the boat out financially.
Solanke isn’t, and never will be, a marquee signing. He was overpriced at 65m which, granted, is the fault of the recruitment team in my view, so no shade thrown on Levy there. However, his signing does, I think, sum up our transfer policy. We’re prepared to go big on fees but only on players on relatively low wages. He’s not a ‘star’ in the same way Eze is, or I’m guessing Cunha now is, another we’ll miss out on because his profile will demand more than we’ll offer. What we’ll find is that the pond we’re fishing in has limited value because all the other more glamorous fish have moved to a bigger pond. There’s a reason we’ve dropped and I think it’s because we’re now competing for players with the likes of Brentford and Brighton, teams generally in and around the same areas as us in the league (although higher for now). They both make smart acquisitions for their clubs but let’s be honest, we’re far bigger and shouldn’t be in that position. We should be in a position to sign diamonds at that level AND the proven talent the rest of the top six sign. I think what’s happening is that the data model we’re now using is, as I suspected at the time, just an excuse to go cheaper. Vicario is a data signing. He’s a great shot-stopper but he can’t kick for shiiiiit and makes a howler of some sort most games. For 5m more, that could have been Raya. That’s my point. Cheap isn’t always smart. Buy cheap, buy twice.
The reference I made regarding “we can spend more, especially on wages” still holds up because Matt Law’s article refers to Spurs having to sell to buy but my point is that Spurs are choosing to sell to buy and leaning on PSR and sustainability to justify that frugality. Villa have spent 600m of their own money since 2018 to get them where they are. ENIC have spent £100m since 2001 on Spurs. There’s absolutely no justification for that other than a focus on profit. Villa’s moves prove that the restrictions applied by PSR aren’t as strict as some would have us believe. Suggesting that our strong revenue streams mean that we don’t need an injection of cash from the owners is contradicted by articles suggesting we have to sell to buy. Put it this way, if Villa were in this position, they’d 100% lean on ownership investment and PSR wiggle room to allow them to spend. It’s about intent, nothing more.
These are not wild claims. The truth is that we’re not willing to spend our PSR allowance to get us back where we belong. Truly ambitious owners make it, one way or another to the top. It’s just a question of intent. What you have to ask yourself is what would the owners of Villa or Newcastle do if they were in our position under Poch getting CL year upon year? They’d absolutely go for it. They wouldn’t look at the league and say “4th or 3rd or 2nd. Happy with that” They’d say “damn, one more push in the market and we can get to the top”. They’d have spent a fortune to make it happen.
We’re always told “can’t can’t can’t” and frankly I’m tired of it. “We couldn’t do it then because we had a stadium to pay for”. “We can’t do it now because we have rules to abide by” or “The long term stability of the club is the most important thing”. Everything is set up for success at our club. The stadium, the training ground but on the pitch we routinely drop the ball. Why? Because the absolutes in terms of profit of building a stadium or a training ground are locked in. They’re not gambles in the same way players are. Levy doesn’t have the arrssssse for this game.
I accept Ange is to blame for a lot of what we’re seeing but the lack of a true marquee signing and the ever decreasing wages to turnover ratio is a major cause for concern. You think it’s a natural consequence of a rebuild, I think it’s a very deliberate ownership decision. We’re never going to agree on that one. The truest test of who’s right will become clear in the next couple of years. My hunch is that what we’ll start seeing is high earners pushed out the door - starting with Romero this summer. Mark my words, the ownership will be happy to get rid of him. Same for Son and then probably Bents. What we’ll see is quality players on our books signing fewer extensions and the line being fed to the media will be “player x wants out” to make them the villain. You just watch. We’re about to become a selling club.
posted on 1/5/25
comment by fridgeboy (U1053)
posted 22 hours, 30 minutes ago
Dev,
No one is asking for a team full of stars. We’re aware we’re not Madrid but the point is that we haven’t signed any star player, someone really proven in the Prem, other than maybe Maddison. He was only affordable because he’d just been relegated with his contract in its final year, so we could offset his higher wages with a lower transfer fee. The word was that Eze and Neto were absolutely wanted by Ange. We got neither. Why? Because we either pulled out because the deal became too rich, or we got gazumped by more ambitious clubs with deeper pockets. Are they deeper though? Do Chelsea really generate more revenue than we do? Not a chance. That’s my point. Chelsea have made a pig’s ear of this new project but you can never question their ambition. They’ve made mistakes but they do push the boat out financially.
Solanke isn’t, and never will be, a marquee signing. He was overpriced at 65m which, granted, is the fault of the recruitment team in my view, so no shade thrown on Levy there. However, his signing does, I think, sum up our transfer policy. We’re prepared to go big on fees but only on players on relatively low wages. He’s not a ‘star’ in the same way Eze is, or I’m guessing Cunha now is, another we’ll miss out on because his profile will demand more than we’ll offer. What we’ll find is that the pond we’re fishing in has limited value because all the other more glamorous fish have moved to a bigger pond. There’s a reason we’ve dropped and I think it’s because we’re now competing for players with the likes of Brentford and Brighton, teams generally in and around the same areas as us in the league (although higher for now). They both make smart acquisitions for their clubs but let’s be honest, we’re far bigger and shouldn’t be in that position. We should be in a position to sign diamonds at that level AND the proven talent the rest of the top six sign. I think what’s happening is that the data model we’re now using is, as I suspected at the time, just an excuse to go cheaper. Vicario is a data signing. He’s a great shot-stopper but he can’t kick for shiiiiit and makes a howler of some sort most games. For 5m more, that could have been Raya. That’s my point. Cheap isn’t always smart. Buy cheap, buy twice.
The reference I made regarding “we can spend more, especially on wages” still holds up because Matt Law’s article refers to Spurs having to sell to buy but my point is that Spurs are choosing to sell to buy and leaning on PSR and sustainability to justify that frugality. Villa have spent 600m of their own money since 2018 to get them where they are. ENIC have spent £100m since 2001 on Spurs. There’s absolutely no justification for that other than a focus on profit. Villa’s moves prove that the restrictions applied by PSR aren’t as strict as some would have us believe. Suggesting that our strong revenue streams mean that we don’t need an injection of cash from the owners is contradicted by articles suggesting we have to sell to buy. Put it this way, if Villa were in this position, they’d 100% lean on ownership investment and PSR wiggle room to allow them to spend. It’s about intent, nothing more.
These are not wild claims. The truth is that we’re not willing to spend our PSR allowance to get us back where we belong. Truly ambitious owners make it, one way or another to the top. It’s just a question of intent. What you have to ask yourself is what would the owners of Villa or Newcastle do if they were in our position under Poch getting CL year upon year? They’d absolutely go for it. They wouldn’t look at the league and say “4th or 3rd or 2nd. Happy with that” They’d say “damn, one more push in the market and we can get to the top”. They’d have spent a fortune to make it happen.
We’re always told “can’t can’t can’t” and frankly I’m tired of it. “We couldn’t do it then because we had a stadium to pay for”. “We can’t do it now because we have rules to abide by” or “The long term stability of the club is the most important thing”. Everything is set up for success at our club. The stadium, the training ground but on the pitch we routinely drop the ball. Why? Because the absolutes in terms of profit of building a stadium or a training ground are locked in. They’re not gambles in the same way players are. Levy doesn’t have the arrssssse for this game.
I accept Ange is to blame for a lot of what we’re seeing but the lack of a true marquee signing and the ever decreasing wages to turnover ratio is a major cause for concern. You think it’s a natural consequence of a rebuild, I think it’s a very deliberate ownership decision. We’re never going to agree on that one. The truest test of who’s right will become clear in the next couple of years. My hunch is that what we’ll start seeing is high earners pushed out the door - starting with Romero this summer. Mark my words, the ownership will be happy to get rid of him. Same for Son and then probably Bents. What we’ll see is quality players on our books signing fewer extensions and the line being fed to the media will be “player x wants out” to make them the villain. You just watch. We’re about to become a selling club.
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I disagree with most of what you say and this is why.
In my opinion, we have been rebuilding the squad over 2 season. This has seen an almost complete overhaul of the squad. Retained players include Romero, Bentancur, Bissouma, Son, Richarlison, Deki. The likes of Udogie, Porro, Sarr, Spence have either come through or had barely been at the club or used pre-Ange. Everyone else is new.
That is a massive overhaul.
In my opinion, these things play out with an eye on now and an eye on the future. There is blend of player age and experience being brought into the squad - Maddison, Werner, Danso Vicario, Solanke adding some experience. Gray Bergvall being true youth. BJ Dragusin and Odobert being young but with a bit of experience.
The strategy being to develop this group and improve, and as that happens some become surplus, additions and improvements are made to push you to the next level, and those additions need to be of the quality to make that step. No point making 5th and then taking a punt on an inexperienced striker who may or may not be a hit.
Overall i think in terms of the trajectory the club had in mind, we may have over delivered last season, in 5th. 5th - 7th, Europe, probably would have been the expectations, and then build on that the next year.
The squad still needed multiple additions and we went out and spent on Solanke, a key striker target. The fact he gets paid £100k a week is neither here or there.
If Utd were in for him they would have probably paid him £150k a week or more. That doesnt make him any better player. Havertz cost the same as Solanke and gets £280k a week, is he worth all that extra money?
Fact is that after a season of no Europe we didnt have huge budgets, but still spend the best part of £140m.
To add Eze or someone of that price point (no one went for him BTW !!! that itself says something) would have been a £75m deal on top of spending. His fees and wages would have been less than Gray Bergvall and Odobert put together.
SO if that's the choice we have in terms of spending the budget then it seems like a bit of a no brainer when we were in a 2nd window of a rebuild and needed bodies as well as players to contribute to the first XI. For me, not the right time to go 'marquee shopping'. I also think some concerns that people held about Neto have come to be. He's underwhelmed, BJ has double his output..
I think the expectation would have been this season to again be in solid EL places, and then looking to make fewer additions to push on to the next step. IF things had progressed this season and we were say where Villa are now, then i would have expected us to be looking at 2 or 3 key quality additions.. Son in clear decline, Werner just a stop gap, Moore not yet ready to break through, we are well placed to add that star quality to improve the left side options, long term.
Bissouma has shown he cannot be relied on. Richi also. I think spending in these areas, where a back up to Solanke could be a bit of a prospect, a Delap sort, would be a natural progress, an improvement, and pushing us towards the next level, spending another £150m or so.
Where it all falls down is that the season has been a mess. We are faced with an all or nothing Europa Cup campaign and a coach who looks like his days are numbered. That kinda throws any strategy out of the window because our budgets will be boom or bust and any manager uncertainty also makes it hard to get players in when you want them in.
If we fail in Europe then the knock on will be things like Romero wanting out, a new manager coming in, smaller budgets, probably less ambitious purchases. That is just a fact of life.
If we fail in Europe season, it will not be because we showed no ambition in transfers. This squad is plenty good enough to make the final and then its a one off game. We have beaten Utd 3 times this season. Bilbao are OK, they played much of the same teams as us in the group and had similar results.
The reason we are where we are in the league is not because we didnt sign Eze or Neto. Not sure why people think Spurs are such a well settled and developed group that a marquee signing will make the difference. This clearly is not the case and that was obvious at the end of last season too where our flaws we more defensive and setup.
We'll see what we are able to add in the summer. Regardless of Europa, i would expect one big signing and spending of £100m at least. I think the squad is well placed to make those more selective quality additions, its just a case of what we can afford and who we can attract after this season.