Donnarumma And chips???

comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 hours, 25 minutes ago
comment by kinsang (U3346)
posted 34 minutes ago
Simply going by the games which I've seen over the past 2 seasons, Onana simply does not give me a 'good feel' for what I want in a goalie. It's not very scientific, and I accept that not everything is his fault and there's a lot of pressure on whoever was in goals. Given that we had the likes of Schmeichel and VDS, against whom it is not fair to compare, but even De Gea at his peak, whilst having certain limitations, felt better.

Onana reminds me of a poor man's Barthez, who for me showed that you can win things without being a great goalie - sadly we don't have the team that surrounded Barthez, so we really need someone who is more solid and reliable.

I still think that Amorim could turn out good, that Rasmus could be a decent player (may not happen with us), but i just don't have that feeling with Onana.

I don't know if Donn' is the answer, but there must be a better option out there
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Objectively, Onana hasn't been great. But it seems to me that the reason so many of our fans think replacing him is an absolute priority is because he gives them the willies, kind of how you've described. Personally, I'm in favour of being led by hard facts rather than vibes.
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No. It's that he gave our DEFENDERS the willies. Every corner we face, our defence is all over the place and I'm sure a lot of that has to do with the lack of confidence in what's behind them.

comment by Macari's chip shop (U13341)
posted 20 minutes ago

No. It's that he gave our DEFENDERS the willies. Every corner we face, our defence is all over the place and I'm sure a lot of that has to do with the lack of confidence in what's behind them.
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Was it Onana's fault when our defenders kept getting the willies in 2022/23 as well?

comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by Macari's chip shop (U13341)
posted 20 minutes ago

No. It's that he gave our DEFENDERS the willies. Every corner we face, our defence is all over the place and I'm sure a lot of that has to do with the lack of confidence in what's behind them.
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Was it Onana's fault when our defenders kept getting the willies in 2022/23 as well?
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No, that was De Gea's!

comment by Macari's chip shop (U13341)
posted 20 minutes ago

No. It's that he gave our DEFENDERS the willies. Every corner we face, our defence is all over the place and I'm sure a lot of that has to do with the lack of confidence in what's behind them.
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Was it Onana's fault when our defenders kept getting the willies in 2022/23 as well?

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Yes. They probably heard a rumor Andre on-no-fack-no was coming and freaked out.

We signed a ball playing goalkeeper and put him behind players scared of touching the ball.

I think Onana probably won’t recover, but I do wonder what damage we did to his confidence in the first place.

comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 4 hours, 49 minutes ago
kinsang, I hope my comment didn't come across as condescending.

Another way of putting it is that I think goalkeeping errors are magnified in our memories because of the consequences. Maybe strikers who miss good chances are the only comparison. E.g. the idea that Andy Cole needed loads of shots to score still haunts his legacy, despite the fact that he's objectively one of the best strikers in the history of the PL. If midfielder's passing or closing down is 2% worse than the level you'd like it to be, that underperformance isn't going to be as visible to fans, and if he scores a wondergoal, that's going to stick in the human memory far more, even though the impact of that goal is a lot less significant than the impact of him delivering less control and less defensive cover than the team needs.

So I think Onana on the basis of a handful of errors (which happened in greater number in the first half of his first season) has given our human brains a lot of very stark impressions that have defined the popular view of him. In the meantime, he's saving overall a similar % of shots to his peers, doing an average job in terms of goals prevented/conceded over the course of the season, in the context of playing for a team that's unstable, fragile in confidence, playing under stress, and prone to defensive lapses that mean he's facing more shots than a lot of the better keepers in the league. I think a bit of hysteria has built up around him to the extent that with just about every goal we concede, fans are jumping to blame Onana. And of course any save he makes 'he ought to have made'.

Good players (including keepers) are more prone to making errors when they are put into pressurised and chaotic situations, and especially constant stress. Allisson (an objectively great keeper) made a really bad mistake against Arsenal in Klopp's final season - a game where Liverpool were really under the cosh in a way they rarely are. My concern is that if we were to replace Onana at the expense of making investments that improve our control and defensive robustness, we'll end up with a potentially slightly better keeper still facing an elevated level of defensive chaos, and he too will underperform. I think we win more points next season with Onana + a team in front of him that gives up fewer chances, keeps possession better and scores the first goal more often, as opposed to AN Other keeper and the same midfield.
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I get what you are saying. All I can say is that I'm not really an OTT reactive type of guy. Of course we all have different opinions on players and there have been games where Onana has been a good shot stopper etc. And I guess it's how does the balance lie between how much is 'his fault' and how much is 'the defence' etc. But all I can say is that he doesn't come across as a goalie who has a commanding presence. If he is first choice this season and he improves, I'll hold up my hands and say I was wrong, but he's just not convincing enough for me. And I accept it will be difficult because of how poor the team has been in the last 2 seasons to inspire confidence in the defence and prove he is the man, rather than if he was starting afresh.
But the fact that I feel there are a good number of goalies in the league that I would rather have, well he just has a lot to prove for me.

But of course in the team as a whole we have to improve as a unit both defensively and offensively, and that could well help him considerably if we can do that ...............but my gut feeling is it won't much

comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 7 minutes ago
We signed a ball playing goalkeeper and put him behind players scared of touching the ball.

I think Onana probably won’t recover, but I do wonder what damage we did to his confidence in the first place.
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I guess part of the game is showing the mental strength to over come that. I guess both he and Rasmus face the same issue - they have to show that they are both good enough mentally as well as talent wise. To a degree Amorim needs to show he has got it also

Be quite ironic if you go back to a world class shot stopper who’s maybe a bit suspect with his feet.

He’s a very good keeper though, and an almost certain upgrade.

https://x.com/akshaypi524/status/1950979885457105331?s=46

Tuco Leon

Onana simply hasn’t been very good for us, and has given very little reason to think he will improve significantly.

Donnarumma is a FAR better GK, so if there is a chance we can get him, on reasonable terms, we should.