Bainzo shredding documents is just a silly oversight as well.
You're Rangers till july
You're Rangers till july
You know you are
You're sure you are
You're Rangers till july
To be fair,
Thats quite witty blacksod.
Factually incorrect, but witty!
Fair enough.
But, Rangers Circumstances are very very different to Leeds Utd, both in terms of the nature and extent of creditors, and the legal mess that surrounds the validity of Whyte’s charge over the assets and the position of Ticketus.
In the Leeds case, Bates had a sufficient number of cards to play which enabled him to force through his proposals. In the Rangers case, any similar move by Whyte appears to attract opposition all round, with the dynamics of the body of creditors being such that achieving anything approaching 75% support seems virtually impossible.
Even if the club is liquidated someone will have to deal with Whyte one way or another and there is no bid that I have read of that brings any clarity whatsoever going forward.
"Thats quite witty blacksod."
It was also posted about 2 months ago.
Extent of the creditors doesnt particularly matter.
DTZ, debts were higher than ours, and there was no legal mechanism to stop the sale.
I dont really agree that things were easier for Leeds, if anything it was more complicated!
In Enland, they have an insolvency policy that states that the club should emerge from admin via CVA rather than liquidation (not that they actually force this). In scotland there is no such rule.
Also the HMRC tend to be harsher on English clubs due to the Footballers Creditor rule which states all football debts should be settled first before the tax man gets anything.
Leed also exited Admin without the ownership of their ground. It has been leased back to them.
Potentially this might happen with Whyte if he does have the security on them. You are right though, Whyte is the stumbling block at the moment.
Indeed.
It might well prove lengthy and costly to remove him. With the ticketus deal and HMRC also a major issue, the potential buyers have a nightmare on their hands.
Ticketus and HMRC are not actually that big a problem.
Worst they can do is to ask for us to be wound up.
Our assets then go up for sale to the highest bidder (probably one of the guys with a bid on the table).
They would then buy the club via a pre-pack and then we would be safe and the old company would fold.
Would potentially cost about £5m without Ibrox as we would get the players for free to maximise the return for the creditors (players would default to creditors and dilute the pot if they were not kept on), then all that really needs bought is the 'goodwill' £5m would probably cover it.
Would then need to strike a deal with whoever had Ibrox, or potentially move to either a new stadium or Hampden.
Either way, the history is safe which is the main thing.
All we can do is wait and see. As I said, I don't know enough to be positive either way.
It's all a bit of a mess and although it seems possible, I can't see HMRC letting a newco that's exactly the same as the oldco trade as if nothing has happened.
Something tells me they'll try and go after the newco too.
But, I guess this all depends on how good their lawyers are how good the new owners lawyers are!
You ever thought about going for the job?
Haha,
To be honest, im starting to think I can do a better job the D&P, but to be fair, who couldnt!
There is no legal mechnism in place for the HMRC to come after the NewCo. Once they are down that route they are free.
Also, the NewCo will most likely be run by new owners, so the HMRC would be chasing folk that had done nothing wrong. Thats some PR they dont need.
I thought I read somewhere that they were going to go after pre-packs if they feel they've taken the mick.
D&P have had a hard time of it. Cleaning up CW and DM's mess can't be easy. They boys are earning their cash imo.
Bhoyzilla,
Aye I heard that too, so looked it up. Changes to the law were proposed (wanted to put a notice period in before a pre-pack to allow creditors to object) but this was rejected.
The other change was to ask for PAYE/VAT money up front or as it was accrued. Was just brought into force the other day. Problem is, they could only ask for the stuff that was acrued from last week. Plus the maximum fine for failing to do so is £5k. Throw it on the pile!
FFS Mitre, you just can't help yourself.
Haha,
I know mate! Im on a one man cruisade!
Should see the argument I am having on another forum, been ripping the pash out of these posters hours!
Really are the dreggs of the Celtic support, signing off with the Old RA stuff!
Its amazing how much more intelligent you tims are on this site!
TCD should actually go over and give them WUM lessons!
Av jist woke up Mitre, ma head is banging! Whats this about a cow??
Holly,
She broke my heart
Mitre
Im sure your a nice guy n all but cmon...all this research on Easter Sunday?
mitre are yoo still blabberin on ffs
mitre ah see yer still boring the forum tae tears ,away and get yer hole ya dawber
Championeeeez
tim, holly never gave him his hole
holly never even looked at the fat bassa
and she was a coo anaw,
poor mitre
nae wunna she never gave him his hole wi chat up lines like "Today I will be demonstrating an example of a corporate entity who decided to go down the Pre-Pack route to leave creditors swinging, dawlface"
To be honest, ive got a shed load of work to do this weekend!
Anything at all I can do to put it off is seeming important to be honest!
You wont hear from me again after tomorrow!
leo
mitre you will be missed
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Todays Lesson - Corporate Equivalence
Page 2 of 3
posted on 8/4/12
Bainzo shredding documents is just a silly oversight as well.
posted on 8/4/12
You're Rangers till july
You're Rangers till july
You know you are
You're sure you are
You're Rangers till july
posted on 8/4/12
To be fair,
Thats quite witty blacksod.
Factually incorrect, but witty!
posted on 8/4/12
Fair enough.
But, Rangers Circumstances are very very different to Leeds Utd, both in terms of the nature and extent of creditors, and the legal mess that surrounds the validity of Whyte’s charge over the assets and the position of Ticketus.
In the Leeds case, Bates had a sufficient number of cards to play which enabled him to force through his proposals. In the Rangers case, any similar move by Whyte appears to attract opposition all round, with the dynamics of the body of creditors being such that achieving anything approaching 75% support seems virtually impossible.
Even if the club is liquidated someone will have to deal with Whyte one way or another and there is no bid that I have read of that brings any clarity whatsoever going forward.
posted on 8/4/12
"Thats quite witty blacksod."
It was also posted about 2 months ago.
posted on 8/4/12
Extent of the creditors doesnt particularly matter.
DTZ, debts were higher than ours, and there was no legal mechanism to stop the sale.
I dont really agree that things were easier for Leeds, if anything it was more complicated!
In Enland, they have an insolvency policy that states that the club should emerge from admin via CVA rather than liquidation (not that they actually force this). In scotland there is no such rule.
Also the HMRC tend to be harsher on English clubs due to the Footballers Creditor rule which states all football debts should be settled first before the tax man gets anything.
Leed also exited Admin without the ownership of their ground. It has been leased back to them.
Potentially this might happen with Whyte if he does have the security on them. You are right though, Whyte is the stumbling block at the moment.
posted on 8/4/12
Indeed.
It might well prove lengthy and costly to remove him. With the ticketus deal and HMRC also a major issue, the potential buyers have a nightmare on their hands.
posted on 8/4/12
Ticketus and HMRC are not actually that big a problem.
Worst they can do is to ask for us to be wound up.
Our assets then go up for sale to the highest bidder (probably one of the guys with a bid on the table).
They would then buy the club via a pre-pack and then we would be safe and the old company would fold.
Would potentially cost about £5m without Ibrox as we would get the players for free to maximise the return for the creditors (players would default to creditors and dilute the pot if they were not kept on), then all that really needs bought is the 'goodwill' £5m would probably cover it.
Would then need to strike a deal with whoever had Ibrox, or potentially move to either a new stadium or Hampden.
Either way, the history is safe which is the main thing.
posted on 8/4/12
All we can do is wait and see. As I said, I don't know enough to be positive either way.
It's all a bit of a mess and although it seems possible, I can't see HMRC letting a newco that's exactly the same as the oldco trade as if nothing has happened.
Something tells me they'll try and go after the newco too.
But, I guess this all depends on how good their lawyers are how good the new owners lawyers are!
You ever thought about going for the job?
posted on 8/4/12
Haha,
To be honest, im starting to think I can do a better job the D&P, but to be fair, who couldnt!
There is no legal mechnism in place for the HMRC to come after the NewCo. Once they are down that route they are free.
Also, the NewCo will most likely be run by new owners, so the HMRC would be chasing folk that had done nothing wrong. Thats some PR they dont need.
posted on 8/4/12
I thought I read somewhere that they were going to go after pre-packs if they feel they've taken the mick.
D&P have had a hard time of it. Cleaning up CW and DM's mess can't be easy. They boys are earning their cash imo.
posted on 8/4/12
Bhoyzilla,
Aye I heard that too, so looked it up. Changes to the law were proposed (wanted to put a notice period in before a pre-pack to allow creditors to object) but this was rejected.
The other change was to ask for PAYE/VAT money up front or as it was accrued. Was just brought into force the other day. Problem is, they could only ask for the stuff that was acrued from last week. Plus the maximum fine for failing to do so is £5k. Throw it on the pile!
posted on 8/4/12
FFS Mitre, you just can't help yourself.
posted on 8/4/12
Haha,
I know mate! Im on a one man cruisade!
Should see the argument I am having on another forum, been ripping the pash out of these posters hours!
Really are the dreggs of the Celtic support, signing off with the Old RA stuff!
Its amazing how much more intelligent you tims are on this site!
TCD should actually go over and give them WUM lessons!
posted on 8/4/12
Av jist woke up Mitre, ma head is banging! Whats this about a cow??
posted on 8/4/12
Holly,
She broke my heart
posted on 8/4/12
Mitre
Im sure your a nice guy n all but cmon...all this research on Easter Sunday?
posted on 8/4/12
mitre are yoo still blabberin on ffs
posted on 8/4/12
mitre ah see yer still boring the forum tae tears ,away and get yer hole ya dawber
Championeeeez
posted on 8/4/12
tim, holly never gave him his hole
posted on 8/4/12
holly never even looked at the fat bassa
posted on 8/4/12
and she was a coo anaw,
poor mitre
posted on 8/4/12
nae wunna she never gave him his hole wi chat up lines like "Today I will be demonstrating an example of a corporate entity who decided to go down the Pre-Pack route to leave creditors swinging, dawlface"
posted on 8/4/12
To be honest, ive got a shed load of work to do this weekend!
Anything at all I can do to put it off is seeming important to be honest!
You wont hear from me again after tomorrow!
posted on 8/4/12
leo
mitre you will be missed
Page 2 of 3