You are making the assumption that anyone who thinks he deserves more time automatically thinks he will be a success.

Well why would you want him to have more time if you don't have confidence in him to be a success?

comment by Ji Sung Park's Cousin - MoyesIn, MoyesOut, ya shake it all about (U2958)
posted 1 second ago
You are making the assumption that anyone who thinks he deserves more time automatically thinks he will be a success.
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So if he will not be a success then why give him more time? To fail more?

I hope the reason they haven't sacked him yet is because they want to get a good replacement lined up and ready take over as soon as he's gone. What we don't need right now is to go managerless or have one of his assistants take over who will inevitably be just as bad.

I'd give him all the time in the world

I know they want long term stability, but just because a formula worked with Fergie, does not mean it will work again.
Can't replicate Fergie, he was a one off genius.

And give him more money so he can replace the players that deserve to be sacked. 90% imo.

You are making the assumption that anyone who thinks he deserves more time automatically thinks he will be a success.

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What an outrageous comment.

Wow, maybe I need to dumb it down even more.

I do not automatically think he will be a success but that does not mean that I automatically think he will be a failure.

The problem is the job was never going to be easy whoever took over which is why people said 'give him time'.

Any job not just a football club that has been run by 1 person for so long is going to struggle when replaced. Everyone agrees the squad needs major improvements while Moyes took over a club which had been set up at every single level by Ferguson, he needed time to gain peoples trust as well as settling in himself.

I can't think of another job in football that has had such a major change. No other big clubs have been run by 1 manager for so long in recent years so transition for us was always going to be difficult.

Whoever came in would need to be given time. The problem with Moyes is that although there are many problem areas at the club that will take time to fix he has not actually shown any positive aspects to him time as manager yet which is the worrying part.

Or simpler.

Moyes might do good.
Moyes might do bad.
Other manager might do good or bad.

You should probably have phrased it "thinks he will automatically be a success," rather than "automatically thinks he will be a success" in that case. Surely I don't need to explain the difference?

I say give him time. But I also know its not a given that we will be successful if we do. Equally so, we could get rid right now, employ someone else, someone with a more popular reputation, and they could find it a struggle. What then? Bin them after 7 or 8 months?

You can only work with what you have. And whilst I do believe Moyes should be getting more from what we have, 'what we have' is not great, and many players are at the end of the line or not stepping up to the plate when we need them to.

Regardless, if someone wants Moyes to stay I would like to think they would be fairly confident in him achieving success. I wouldn't want him to stay based on a "maybe he'll be good, maybe he won't" opinion.

comment by merrysupersteve (U1132)
posted 2 minutes ago
You should probably have phrased it "thinks he will automatically be a success," rather than "automatically thinks he will be a success" in that case. Surely I don't need to explain the difference?
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I think you probably do, as what I wrote is perfectly acceptable and makes 100% sense.

You and MUDD just chose to try and twist it to suit your argument, unsurprisingly.

comment by merrysupersteve (U1132)
posted 7 seconds ago
Regardless, if someone wants Moyes to stay I would like to think they would be fairly confident in him achieving success. I wouldn't want him to stay based on a "maybe he'll be good, maybe he won't" opinion.
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In most any other situation, I would agree.... Replacing the world's greatest club manager after 26 years of fully controlling the club... With an obvious rebuilding job to do, I would say it is acceptable to need more than 1 season.

The problem is the job was never going to be easy whoever took over which is why people said 'give him time'.

Any job not just a football club that has been run by 1 person for so long is going to struggle when replaced. Everyone agrees the squad needs major improvements while Moyes took over a club which had been set up at every single level by Ferguson, he needed time to gain peoples trust as well as settling in himself.

I can't think of another job in football that has had such a major change. No other big clubs have been run by 1 manager for so long in recent years so transition for us was always going to be difficult.

Whoever came in would need to be given time. The problem with Moyes is that although there are many problem areas at the club that will take time to fix he has not actually shown any positive aspects to him time as manager yet which is the worrying part.
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This. The most worrying aspect is his apparent inability to motivate/inspire. I don't recall seeing such a lacklustre performance from a United side as that we saw last night. Some of our players look shot. Major reconstruction required but I really aint sure Moyes is the man to do it

Okay, thinking he will automatically be a success suggests that you think it's a given and doubtless. Automatically thinking he will be a success suggests that it is your gut feeling, almost a reflex reaction to believe he'll be a success. Not really the same.

I was being pedantic though

you lot loved it when we had roy, give him time

The most worrying thing is the players don't seem to be playing for him, regardless of their highly debated qualities. RVP another comment to Dutch reporter, Carrick's interview hinted at problems.
What is apparent as Keano said is some players and he regularly names Young and Valencia are just not god enough for a United side wanting to be competing for trophies. Similarly Cleverley and Smalling who was atrocious last night. Rio MUST hang up his boots as Giggsy should. That's 6 players straight away without thinking, add Scholes.... massive overhaul is needed but too much change too quick is often a recipe for disaster and he has already changed all the backromm staff, big mistake IMO. It doesn't look good now for Moyes at all. He has to get the choice of players right to bring in otherwise we are in for quite a few barren years !!

The problem with Moyes is that although there are many problem areas at the club that will take time to fix he has not actually shown any positive aspects to him time as manager yet which is the worrying part

....................

Exactly

He is not showing any of the characteristics that got him the job.

Although he won naff all with Everton, they all played for him. There was passion, closing down of the opposition, and a never say die kind of attitude.

The one thing I thought he would be good at with us, is going to be his downfall.

What I realy found allarming last week, or the week before was the two interviews with Fletch and Cleverley, where they both stated that they are doing exactly what they are being asked to do.

If Moyes is asking our midfield to not make any tackles, mark space, and let teams run through us unchallenged, pass sideways or backwards, then someting isn't right.

VC

I assumed one of the characteristics Ferguson liked in Moyes most was his strong character, but these last few weeks he's just looked like a lost puppy.

No one is in doubt that a major rebuilding job is needed but when a team capitulates this badly, you have to ask whether you have the right man in the hot seat.

I think you probably do, as what I wrote is perfectly acceptable and makes 100% sense.

You and MUDD just chose to try and twist it to suit your argument, unsurprisingly.

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You said autmotically think he'll be a success. The adverb "automatically" goes with the verb, rather than the auxiliary if you'd have changed it around. Changes the meaning quite significantly and completely.

Are you in the MOB Merry?