Yeah Coq was OK, not helped by Ramsey and Cazorla being pretty trash.
I heard Ozil was also trash. After his goal he just hid away as usual.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by Pires the Master (U9500)
posted 3 minutes ago
I heard Ozil was also trash. After his goal he just hid away as usual.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Honestly could not care less about a performance vs an awful Villa side, don't care what stats anyone cares to bring up, Ozil cannot play out wide vs anyone half decent
Similar to the Southampton game this was a match where Le Coq looked a bit out of his depth. However I don't really blame him too much. Coquelins limitations and the reason we need an improvement on him is because he is just there to provide a much needed defensive shield to the back four. Unless the two central midfielders in front of him are able to relieve pressure when they receive the ball and keep it for a while, the bombardment of Spurs pressure just continued.
Coquelin was powerless to stop either of the goals and still provided some trademark tackles and interceptions. But he isn't able to assist in controlling a midfield battle due to his all round lack of physical presence and limitations in his distribution. He didn't have a bad game though.
You can be Makelele when you have Michael Essien and Frank Lampard in front of you for example, maybe not Santi Cazorla and Ramsey (both having stinkers)
This game highlighted a lot. In general being we crumble when we are pressed. It's the reason why we always seem to drop points to Swansea, Southampton, and all of the big teams away from home. Individually, Mertesacker's poor decision making under pressure. Koscielny's lapses in concentration at important moments. Ospinas hard hands. Walcotts lack of defensive commitment. Cazorla's inconsistencies in big games. Ramsey ditto. Girouds inability to provide real hold up play when other players are not really close to him. Ozil's lack of defensive know how when playing on the wing in a park the bus game plan. Ozil simply hasnt played in teams that use that tactic so either he has to be coached withhin an inch of his life or you don't play him games where that is the tactic. Bellerins lack of experience.
Only Monreal and Welbeck can really come out and say they had a decent game. And welbeck can still be criticised for letting Rose have free reign on the left in the first half.
All round disappointment, and a wake up call to everyone who thinks we have a treble winning squad. What a foolish bunch you were and how silly you must feel. There are two possibilities now, either the squad simply isn't good enough to perform in the big away games consistently or they are but the manager isn't up to getting them ready to do so. From Saturday's performance it looked more like the former than the latter. And I am a bonafide WOB
I think Wenger probably got it right tactics wise and injuries to Sanchez and Chamberlain forced us to go with either Walcott or Ozil from the off. He made the right decision for me to go with Mesut to start. Justified by going in at the break one up. Perhaps earlier changes, but nothing to get too angry about there. The players just didn't live up to the city match because they under estimated Spurs pressing game and couldn't keep hold of the ball in midfield or up top.
From an opposition perspective, I was impressed and frustrated by him...seemed to block, intercept and throw himself in front of everything.
A nuisance, and the main reason it didn't end up a cricket score.
Think that's very harsh, Supermatheo
There are very few defensive mids in world football who can do everything you describe - be a brick wall in front of the defence, be a physical presence in the midfield, distribute the ball to start attacks
Only really Busquets, Matic, Xabi Alonso and maybe Masch before his CB days come to mind.
Think that's very harsh, Supermatheo
There are very few defensive mids in world football who can do everything you describe - be a brick wall in front of the defence, be a physical presence in the midfield, distribute the ball to start attacks
Only really Busquets, Matic, Xabi Alonso and maybe Masch before his CB days come to mind.
----------------
Apologies I didn't want to come across as overly critical. To be clear I thought Coquelin was our fourth best performer behind Monreal, Welbeck and Ospina in that order.
What I meant was he provides a very useful defensive shield, and when the two in front of him are having good games, he looks very good indeed, hassling players, making interceptions, slide tackles etc.
When the two in front of him are having stinkers, his limitations are illuminated. He too struggled to keep possession or physically impose himself on the game. We had no real central midfield presence at all.
My point being was that if we want to go to White Hart Lane and dominate the game we will probably need an improvement of Coquelin. Should we not aspire for an Alonso, a Matic, a Busquets? For all our talk of being such a classy attractive side, we got played off the park by Tottenham. That's the most embarrassing thing about it. A very one sided victory for the noisy neighbours.
But that is not to take away from Coquelin, I thought he did alright, and now only alongside Monreal, he has been our top performer for about a month, as those are the only two recent top performers can still come out of the NLD saying that played alright.
Yeah fair enough, I agree that he might be a little bit limited in terms of his stature and physicality to ever be a dominating midfielder but I think unless Wenger wants to go and spend £20m+ on one we'll struggle to massively improve upon him.
I'd much rather we go big and finally get that top striker Wenger has been trying for about 2.5 years
Yeah fair enough, I agree that he might be a little bit limited in terms of his stature and physicality to ever be a dominating midfielder but I think unless Wenger wants to go and spend £20m+ on one we'll struggle to massively improve upon him.
I'd much rather we go big and finally get that top striker Wenger has been trying for about 2.5 years
---------------------
I agree but I think we can get away with spending 60 million this summer on a striker and a DM. Last summer we spent about 75 million. If we can get a bit of cash for Podolski, Campbell and Jenkinson (although it'll break my heart), we should have plenty to spend on not a whole lot of player.
Schneiderlin
Cavani
Done.
He made 9 interceptions the most by any player in PL this season in a single game I think. So he was good, he was the only one in midfield who could even pass the ball, a major criticism of his usually. Probably our best player on the park
Whole team was pathetic Bar Coq, Monreal and probably Welbeck.
I think Wenger probably got it right tactics wise
-----------------------------------
How can you claim that when Spurs won fairly comfortably? Arsenal were one of the leagues in-form teams going into this game. Although Spurs were also playing well they made us look poor. We don't have that many injuries and some players who've been playing really well in the last couple of games were anonymous.
Frankly, Pochettino outclassed Wenger tactically!
"Frankly, Pochettino outclassed Wenger tactically!"
Maybe.
Far more to the game than just formation and shape though.
Our boys just didn't look up for it to be honest.
"Coquelin was powerless to stop either of the goals"
What the hell is this? How was he in a position to stop them esp the first one that was a corner ffs!
comment by Arsene Wengooner (U6031)
posted 39 minutes ago
I think Wenger probably got it right tactics wise
-----------------------------------
How can you claim that when Spurs won fairly comfortably? Arsenal were one of the leagues in-form teams going into this game. Although Spurs were also playing well they made us look poor. We don't have that many injuries and some players who've been playing really well in the last couple of games were anonymous.
Frankly, Pochettino outclassed Wenger tactically!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You do realise that it might not always be someones fault when we lose. We could, you know, just have been beating by a team that was better on the day??
Unless you expect the side to win every single game they play?
You do realise that it might not always be someones fault when we lose. We could, you know, just have been beating by a team that was better on the day??
Unless you expect the side to win every single game they play?
---------------------------------
Well, yeah. On paper our team should beat Spurs 100% of the time, so when they don't win how can it not be someone's fault? They won comfortably, do we just accept being beating comfortably by Spurs now? No blame, nothing's wrong, top 4 is a trophy etc.?
comment by Arsene Wengooner (U6031)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
You do realise that it might not always be someones fault when we lose. We could, you know, just have been beating by a team that was better on the day??
Unless you expect the side to win every single game they play?
---------------------------------
Well, yeah. On paper our team should beat Spurs 100% of the time, so when they don't win how can it not be someone's fault? They won comfortably, do we just accept being beating comfortably by Spurs now? No blame, nothing's wrong, top 4 is a trophy etc.?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why should we have beaten them on paper? Spurs have just thrashed the team who will probably win the league a 2 weeks ago. They are one of the top form teams in the league with easily the form player up front, maybe even Eriksen too.They are playing at home in front of their fans. How is a winner in the 86th minute after coming from a goal down winnning comfortably?
You look utterly ridiculous throwing your toys out of the pram after every dropped point. This is why our fans are the laughing stock of english football.
Do you think we should win every single game we play? if not then why do you moan and blame after every dropped point. Pathetic childish blame and entitlemente culture. How long have you been an arsenal fan?
You look utterly ridiculous throwing your toys out of the pram after every dropped point.
---------------------
The irony is you look ridiculous resorting to [childish] questions like "How long have you been an arsenal fan?". I haven't thrown my toys out of the pram at all I said I didn't agree that our tactics were good. God forbid I might be disappointed we lost to Spurs and might have a negative opinion on a football forum of all places.
comment by 50 (U1147)
posted 3 hours, 31 minutes ago
He made 9 interceptions the most by any player in PL this season in a single game I think. So he was good, he was the only one in midfield who could even pass the ball, a major criticism of his usually. Probably our best player on the park
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good point
Our team as a whole was overwhelmed, but I personally think this was symptomatic of our system as a whole (and our inability to deal with Tottenham's high-line/high-pressing system).
I think there's only so much one player can be expected to do in that situation, and I would say that Coquelin himself did very well given the circumstances, IMO.
comment by SupermaTheo (U19321)
posted 4 hours, 4 minutes ago
Think that's very harsh, Supermatheo
There are very few defensive mids in world football who can do everything you describe - be a brick wall in front of the defence, be a physical presence in the midfield, distribute the ball to start attacks
Only really Busquets, Matic, Xabi Alonso and maybe Masch before his CB days come to mind.
----------------
Apologies I didn't want to come across as overly critical. To be clear I thought Coquelin was our fourth best performer behind Monreal, Welbeck and Ospina in that order.
What I meant was he provides a very useful defensive shield, and when the two in front of him are having good games, he looks very good indeed, hassling players, making interceptions, slide tackles etc.
When the two in front of him are having stinkers, his limitations are illuminated. He too struggled to keep possession or physically impose himself on the game. We had no real central midfield presence at all.
My point being was that if we want to go to White Hart Lane and dominate the game we will probably need an improvement of Coquelin. Should we not aspire for an Alonso, a Matic, a Busquets? For all our talk of being such a classy attractive side, we got played off the park by Tottenham. That's the most embarrassing thing about it. A very one sided victory for the noisy neighbours.
But that is not to take away from Coquelin, I thought he did alright, and now only alongside Monreal, he has been our top performer for about a month, as those are the only two recent top performers can still come out of the NLD saying that played alright.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not just harsh but misrepresents the skill set which Coquelin brings to the table.
When allow to go forward the Frenchman is quite competent with short and long range passes and can dribble- better in my opinion than Ramsey can do. The very ristrictive nature of his role in the 4-1-4-1 system is why the other aspects of his game has not shone through.
Thought he had a 6/10 game against the yiiids.
When allow to go forward the Frenchman is quite competent with short and long range passes and can dribble- better in my opinion than Ramsey can do.
-------------------------
I think in addition Ramsey is often guilty of trying to be too cute or too good, Coq just does what he's there for, which is refreshing tbh.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
comment by justanotherTopperSpur (U1409)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
IMO Wenger should've had Walcott on starting the 2nd half.
Our CBs were operating 5 metres inside your half,we had it too easy,not so if they had to watch Walcott.
Was he carrying an injury?
If not,Wenger must take the rap.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Completely agree
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Le Coq
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posted on 9/2/15
Yeah Coq was OK, not helped by Ramsey and Cazorla being pretty trash.
posted on 9/2/15
I heard Ozil was also trash. After his goal he just hid away as usual.
posted on 9/2/15
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 9/2/15
comment by Pires the Master (U9500)
posted 3 minutes ago
I heard Ozil was also trash. After his goal he just hid away as usual.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Honestly could not care less about a performance vs an awful Villa side, don't care what stats anyone cares to bring up, Ozil cannot play out wide vs anyone half decent
posted on 9/2/15
Similar to the Southampton game this was a match where Le Coq looked a bit out of his depth. However I don't really blame him too much. Coquelins limitations and the reason we need an improvement on him is because he is just there to provide a much needed defensive shield to the back four. Unless the two central midfielders in front of him are able to relieve pressure when they receive the ball and keep it for a while, the bombardment of Spurs pressure just continued.
Coquelin was powerless to stop either of the goals and still provided some trademark tackles and interceptions. But he isn't able to assist in controlling a midfield battle due to his all round lack of physical presence and limitations in his distribution. He didn't have a bad game though.
You can be Makelele when you have Michael Essien and Frank Lampard in front of you for example, maybe not Santi Cazorla and Ramsey (both having stinkers)
This game highlighted a lot. In general being we crumble when we are pressed. It's the reason why we always seem to drop points to Swansea, Southampton, and all of the big teams away from home. Individually, Mertesacker's poor decision making under pressure. Koscielny's lapses in concentration at important moments. Ospinas hard hands. Walcotts lack of defensive commitment. Cazorla's inconsistencies in big games. Ramsey ditto. Girouds inability to provide real hold up play when other players are not really close to him. Ozil's lack of defensive know how when playing on the wing in a park the bus game plan. Ozil simply hasnt played in teams that use that tactic so either he has to be coached withhin an inch of his life or you don't play him games where that is the tactic. Bellerins lack of experience.
Only Monreal and Welbeck can really come out and say they had a decent game. And welbeck can still be criticised for letting Rose have free reign on the left in the first half.
All round disappointment, and a wake up call to everyone who thinks we have a treble winning squad. What a foolish bunch you were and how silly you must feel. There are two possibilities now, either the squad simply isn't good enough to perform in the big away games consistently or they are but the manager isn't up to getting them ready to do so. From Saturday's performance it looked more like the former than the latter. And I am a bonafide WOB
I think Wenger probably got it right tactics wise and injuries to Sanchez and Chamberlain forced us to go with either Walcott or Ozil from the off. He made the right decision for me to go with Mesut to start. Justified by going in at the break one up. Perhaps earlier changes, but nothing to get too angry about there. The players just didn't live up to the city match because they under estimated Spurs pressing game and couldn't keep hold of the ball in midfield or up top.
posted on 9/2/15
From an opposition perspective, I was impressed and frustrated by him...seemed to block, intercept and throw himself in front of everything.
A nuisance, and the main reason it didn't end up a cricket score.
posted on 9/2/15
Think that's very harsh, Supermatheo
There are very few defensive mids in world football who can do everything you describe - be a brick wall in front of the defence, be a physical presence in the midfield, distribute the ball to start attacks
Only really Busquets, Matic, Xabi Alonso and maybe Masch before his CB days come to mind.
posted on 9/2/15
Think that's very harsh, Supermatheo
There are very few defensive mids in world football who can do everything you describe - be a brick wall in front of the defence, be a physical presence in the midfield, distribute the ball to start attacks
Only really Busquets, Matic, Xabi Alonso and maybe Masch before his CB days come to mind.
----------------
Apologies I didn't want to come across as overly critical. To be clear I thought Coquelin was our fourth best performer behind Monreal, Welbeck and Ospina in that order.
What I meant was he provides a very useful defensive shield, and when the two in front of him are having good games, he looks very good indeed, hassling players, making interceptions, slide tackles etc.
When the two in front of him are having stinkers, his limitations are illuminated. He too struggled to keep possession or physically impose himself on the game. We had no real central midfield presence at all.
My point being was that if we want to go to White Hart Lane and dominate the game we will probably need an improvement of Coquelin. Should we not aspire for an Alonso, a Matic, a Busquets? For all our talk of being such a classy attractive side, we got played off the park by Tottenham. That's the most embarrassing thing about it. A very one sided victory for the noisy neighbours.
But that is not to take away from Coquelin, I thought he did alright, and now only alongside Monreal, he has been our top performer for about a month, as those are the only two recent top performers can still come out of the NLD saying that played alright.
posted on 9/2/15
Yeah fair enough, I agree that he might be a little bit limited in terms of his stature and physicality to ever be a dominating midfielder but I think unless Wenger wants to go and spend £20m+ on one we'll struggle to massively improve upon him.
I'd much rather we go big and finally get that top striker Wenger has been trying for about 2.5 years
posted on 9/2/15
Yeah fair enough, I agree that he might be a little bit limited in terms of his stature and physicality to ever be a dominating midfielder but I think unless Wenger wants to go and spend £20m+ on one we'll struggle to massively improve upon him.
I'd much rather we go big and finally get that top striker Wenger has been trying for about 2.5 years
---------------------
I agree but I think we can get away with spending 60 million this summer on a striker and a DM. Last summer we spent about 75 million. If we can get a bit of cash for Podolski, Campbell and Jenkinson (although it'll break my heart), we should have plenty to spend on not a whole lot of player.
Schneiderlin
Cavani
Done.
posted on 9/2/15
He made 9 interceptions the most by any player in PL this season in a single game I think. So he was good, he was the only one in midfield who could even pass the ball, a major criticism of his usually. Probably our best player on the park
posted on 9/2/15
Whole team was pathetic Bar Coq, Monreal and probably Welbeck.
posted on 9/2/15
I think Wenger probably got it right tactics wise
-----------------------------------
How can you claim that when Spurs won fairly comfortably? Arsenal were one of the leagues in-form teams going into this game. Although Spurs were also playing well they made us look poor. We don't have that many injuries and some players who've been playing really well in the last couple of games were anonymous.
Frankly, Pochettino outclassed Wenger tactically!
posted on 9/2/15
"Frankly, Pochettino outclassed Wenger tactically!"
Maybe.
Far more to the game than just formation and shape though.
Our boys just didn't look up for it to be honest.
posted on 9/2/15
"Coquelin was powerless to stop either of the goals"
What the hell is this? How was he in a position to stop them esp the first one that was a corner ffs!
posted on 9/2/15
comment by Arsene Wengooner (U6031)
posted 39 minutes ago
I think Wenger probably got it right tactics wise
-----------------------------------
How can you claim that when Spurs won fairly comfortably? Arsenal were one of the leagues in-form teams going into this game. Although Spurs were also playing well they made us look poor. We don't have that many injuries and some players who've been playing really well in the last couple of games were anonymous.
Frankly, Pochettino outclassed Wenger tactically!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You do realise that it might not always be someones fault when we lose. We could, you know, just have been beating by a team that was better on the day??
Unless you expect the side to win every single game they play?
posted on 9/2/15
You do realise that it might not always be someones fault when we lose. We could, you know, just have been beating by a team that was better on the day??
Unless you expect the side to win every single game they play?
---------------------------------
Well, yeah. On paper our team should beat Spurs 100% of the time, so when they don't win how can it not be someone's fault? They won comfortably, do we just accept being beating comfortably by Spurs now? No blame, nothing's wrong, top 4 is a trophy etc.?
posted on 9/2/15
comment by Arsene Wengooner (U6031)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
You do realise that it might not always be someones fault when we lose. We could, you know, just have been beating by a team that was better on the day??
Unless you expect the side to win every single game they play?
---------------------------------
Well, yeah. On paper our team should beat Spurs 100% of the time, so when they don't win how can it not be someone's fault? They won comfortably, do we just accept being beating comfortably by Spurs now? No blame, nothing's wrong, top 4 is a trophy etc.?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Why should we have beaten them on paper? Spurs have just thrashed the team who will probably win the league a 2 weeks ago. They are one of the top form teams in the league with easily the form player up front, maybe even Eriksen too.They are playing at home in front of their fans. How is a winner in the 86th minute after coming from a goal down winnning comfortably?
You look utterly ridiculous throwing your toys out of the pram after every dropped point. This is why our fans are the laughing stock of english football.
Do you think we should win every single game we play? if not then why do you moan and blame after every dropped point. Pathetic childish blame and entitlemente culture. How long have you been an arsenal fan?
posted on 9/2/15
You look utterly ridiculous throwing your toys out of the pram after every dropped point.
---------------------
The irony is you look ridiculous resorting to [childish] questions like "How long have you been an arsenal fan?". I haven't thrown my toys out of the pram at all I said I didn't agree that our tactics were good. God forbid I might be disappointed we lost to Spurs and might have a negative opinion on a football forum of all places.
posted on 9/2/15
comment by 50 (U1147)
posted 3 hours, 31 minutes ago
He made 9 interceptions the most by any player in PL this season in a single game I think. So he was good, he was the only one in midfield who could even pass the ball, a major criticism of his usually. Probably our best player on the park
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Good point
Our team as a whole was overwhelmed, but I personally think this was symptomatic of our system as a whole (and our inability to deal with Tottenham's high-line/high-pressing system).
I think there's only so much one player can be expected to do in that situation, and I would say that Coquelin himself did very well given the circumstances, IMO.
posted on 9/2/15
comment by SupermaTheo (U19321)
posted 4 hours, 4 minutes ago
Think that's very harsh, Supermatheo
There are very few defensive mids in world football who can do everything you describe - be a brick wall in front of the defence, be a physical presence in the midfield, distribute the ball to start attacks
Only really Busquets, Matic, Xabi Alonso and maybe Masch before his CB days come to mind.
----------------
Apologies I didn't want to come across as overly critical. To be clear I thought Coquelin was our fourth best performer behind Monreal, Welbeck and Ospina in that order.
What I meant was he provides a very useful defensive shield, and when the two in front of him are having good games, he looks very good indeed, hassling players, making interceptions, slide tackles etc.
When the two in front of him are having stinkers, his limitations are illuminated. He too struggled to keep possession or physically impose himself on the game. We had no real central midfield presence at all.
My point being was that if we want to go to White Hart Lane and dominate the game we will probably need an improvement of Coquelin. Should we not aspire for an Alonso, a Matic, a Busquets? For all our talk of being such a classy attractive side, we got played off the park by Tottenham. That's the most embarrassing thing about it. A very one sided victory for the noisy neighbours.
But that is not to take away from Coquelin, I thought he did alright, and now only alongside Monreal, he has been our top performer for about a month, as those are the only two recent top performers can still come out of the NLD saying that played alright.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not just harsh but misrepresents the skill set which Coquelin brings to the table.
When allow to go forward the Frenchman is quite competent with short and long range passes and can dribble- better in my opinion than Ramsey can do. The very ristrictive nature of his role in the 4-1-4-1 system is why the other aspects of his game has not shone through.
Thought he had a 6/10 game against the yiiids.
posted on 9/2/15
When allow to go forward the Frenchman is quite competent with short and long range passes and can dribble- better in my opinion than Ramsey can do.
-------------------------
I think in addition Ramsey is often guilty of trying to be too cute or too good, Coq just does what he's there for, which is refreshing tbh.
posted on 9/2/15
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 9/2/15
comment by justanotherTopperSpur (U1409)
posted 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
IMO Wenger should've had Walcott on starting the 2nd half.
Our CBs were operating 5 metres inside your half,we had it too easy,not so if they had to watch Walcott.
Was he carrying an injury?
If not,Wenger must take the rap.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Completely agree
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