I didn't think yesterday's ref treated us any differently than Everton
The ref saw the incident, if they go and ban Barnes etc they aren't even showing respect to the refs themselves If he saw it and they overruled him it shows hes not competent enough to do his job and what message would that send?
In Barnes defence, horrific challenge however unlike his first one on Ivanovic I think it was an accident he went to clear the ball got a flick on the ball as Matic knick it and the follow through just happened.
Without doubt officials have been worse than ever this season. Just the weekend past alone, threw up a ridiculous amount of massive mistakes. In the Liverpool game there were at least two penalties not given. Southampton had a stonewall penalty turned down, which was scandalous that it wasn't given.
Chelsea had at least one penalty not given which was stonewall and perhaps another on Costa, which for me was a definite penalty.
Arsenal got a penalty for a challenge outside the box and their second goal was offside.
Matic sent off for a push, the player he pushed yellow carded for an unintentionally but dangerous potentially career threatening injury.
I had a bet on Swansea, Hull, Arsenal, Forest and Fulham, £10 was getting me £870, so was paying particular interest to those games and only needed Fulham to score but the officials ruled their perfectly good 87th minute goal as offside.
It's been happening all season, mostly it's the refusal to give blatant penalties which frustrates me, like referees are afraid to give them.
Some referees fire out yellow cards like confetti and some try not to give them at all. It's crazy.
The United game in the cup Rooney was clearly offside according to the rules, rules which by the way are not what Keown and most people seem to claim, if you don't touch the ball you aren't offside, nonsense. Part of the rule is about you making a movement which distracts the defending player, in that case the goalkeeper. Then of course Rooney's clear dive, having jumped over the challenge already.
Apart from Arsenal, I don't think any team has benefited more than others from decisions, this season but certainly I'd put Liverpool and Chelsea up there as having had a lot of wrong decisions go against them.
Arsenal pen was on the line and borderline it was hardly a howler that was a couple of yards outside the box.
Oh and what motd forgot to show u was Ozil scoring a goal in the first ten mins which was not given due to an offside which was incorrect.
Referees are shocking, they don't have the bottle to make the big decisions as they see them, they make them as the 4th official or Jose Mourinho might see them.
As for 'assistant referees' they're also a joke. You watch them. At throw ins, they wait for the referee to make his decision, then wave their flag to agree with him.
Love how they all run towards each other in the centre circle at the end of the game and the referee holds the match ball.
There is no doubt they are getting worse and worse,i accept that at times i may have seen things through blue glasses, but when keith Hackett ex-head of refs says 5 or 6 are not prem league quality then we have a big problem
They are not accountable enough, and are not punished hard enough for their errors, they know that they can get away with being poor , and they do.
The fa are totally to blame , they must be aware of the problems in the game and yet they do nothing.
take Mike Jones, his perfomance at Liverpool was out rageous, but they make no statement about this.
he really should have been banned from prem for rest of season.
Problem is how we interpret their mistakes, there are honest mistakes and dishonest mistakes.
The ref at the spurs cup game was guilty of one of the most dishonest mistakes i have seen , he is 40 yards away and calls a dive from our player which was clearly a pen, he could not see that from where he was so he gave what he wanted to see, that is dishonest.
Marriner last season sends off the wrong player,and gets the league cup final, what message does that send out.
Some refs tell the linesman just to run the line and not give other decisions, that is dis honest.
Bad luck does not even itself out, and over the years we have had more than our fair share, there is no doubt the refs favour certain teams especially the larger ones, and bottle out of certain decisions.
Ref storms into the dressing room at half time(which against the rules of the game) they do nothing.
They give us a ref at Charlton last year who is a Peterborough fan, and blatantly cheats us out of a result and they do nothing.
The FA have shown that they have nothing but contempt for the fans, and blindly support incompetant refs who through there actions decide the result of the game.
I would estimate that about 25 % of games are decided by the performance of the ref, this is not acceptable.
At last the tv pundits are criticising these jokers, who deserve every bit of stick they get and to me are the biggest problem in the game today.
Players get stick for diving ets ,quite rightly so, bit the refs should get far more for their incompetant and at times dishonest performances.
Here's the biggest problem with this: At some point, the authorities will get together and discuss issues around refereeing. They will agree that the problem is not about the officials simply not having enough quality, making bad decisions or being unaccountable. Instead, they will agree that referees are in fact under too much scrutiny. They will agree that the real problem is not the fact that they're making mistakes but that people are pointing them out or criticising them in any way. As a result, they will call for less accountability and harsher punishments for managers who dare to do so. Because if we only ignored the problem it might go away on its own.
It wont go away due to all tv coverage, but the fact remains that they are getting worse season by season.
it seems wrong that refs are not allowed to speak about their decisions and at times admit their faults.
It is equally wrong that managers cannot say that a referees performance was poor. i dont mean that they should be abused, but a manager should be able to express his disappointment in a decision.
In the eyes of the FA they cannot be criticised, so equally they cannot be praised.
They do not help themselves by their manner and apparent arrogance, and i am afraid that some performances have been so bad that even as a neutral you have to question their impartiallity.
Like i said before they close ranks, so when the likes of Hackett say they are bad, then they must be bad.
Interesting to note that since they became professionals ,the amount they are paid seems to reflect their performance in reverse.
When we see european matches , the quality of fitness and decision making is so much better that they may be a case of trying European refs in our league.
comment by thorneyfox (U5061)
posted 4 hours, 44 minutes ago
Problem is how we interpret their mistakes, there are honest mistakes and dishonest mistakes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a bit of both. I think they're just incompetent. They have to be 100% sure before they can give a decision. If they're not 100% sure, they can't possibly give it, simple as that, and anything else is guesswork and therefore dishonest. They are also influenced by the teams they are refereeing, and allow themselves to get surrounded by players. At one time only a captain could approach a referee to question a decision. We need that scenario back again. Referees ought also to consult their linesmen more. It's a team of three, so work as a team.
Finally, it's a complete joke that Champions League games get an additional two officials working the penalty areas. I wonder how many give penalties and free kicks for the shirt-pulling and wrestling that goes on at corners?
comment by thorneyfox (U5061)
posted 2 hours, 4 minutes ago
It is equally wrong that managers cannot say that a referees performance was poor. I dont mean that they should be abused, but a manager should be able to express his disappointment in a decision.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think all managers and clubs are well within their rights to contest any decision and use video evidence to support any claims of poor refereeing, whether it be wrong yellow and red cards, dives, real penalties, whatever.
Let everyone see the evidence, let's get everything out into the open, call the refs and assistant refs out, and if they have made an obvious and gross mistake, if they haven't had the balls to make the right decision, drop them.
If managers are forbidden from doing this by some rule they have to sign up to at the beginning of every season, then those sign-up rules ought to be changed.
This works both ways, of course. Any manager fabricating trumped-up claims of poor decisions could be found out big time for the myopic liars they are.
Love how they all run towards each other in the centre circle at the end of the game and the referee holds the match ball.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's all about ensuring the well-being for one another. The 3 officials enter the pitch as a team and they depart as a team.
There are usually post-match dramas and protestations that follow and the referee and his two linesmen (I hate that term assistants) stand firm in the face of unnecessary provocation and abuse. No-one else on that pitch is going to look after them.
comment by The_Dungeon_Master (U4830)
posted 6 hours, 45 minutes ago
Here's the biggest problem with this: At some point, the authorities will get together and discuss issues around refereeing. They will agree that the problem is not about the officials simply not having enough quality, making bad decisions or being unaccountable. Instead, they will agree that referees are in fact under too much scrutiny. They will agree that the real problem is not the fact that they're making mistakes but that people are pointing them out or criticising them in any way. As a result, they will call for less accountability and harsher punishments for managers who dare to do so. Because if we only ignored the problem it might go away on its own.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
E
Exactly and that's why we have got to this point. It has been ignored and brushed off as referees do a difficult job and make mistakes. We can all accept that. What we don't accept is the standard declining and more mistakes than ever. I made an article months ago saying that it has got to crisis point. That was brushed off by most claiming we have replays. We had replays five years ago and there were less mistakes.
The simple fact is the refereesing standard is dropping season on season and something needs to be done about it. You watch the Champions League and the European referees do a much better job.
I have to think from the other point of view. And I'm not saying the quality of refereeing doesn't need attention.
If you make referees accountable for their decisions then surely this puts the result (of the game) in dispute?
If, for example; The ref comes out after the game and is questioned by a sky reporter on a decision he has made not to award a penalty to team X, proceeds to explain his decision and why, then it is proved to him he was wrong using video. He has no choice but to then say..."Yeah I made the wrong decision" - Therfore the result of the whole match is in question and dispute.
Bum deal, rematch..start again.
Only when the video evidence we see on TV and highlights programmes is actually used to agree real-time decisions, is when we see accountable referees.
By which time, hopefully, there is no question of biased or incompetence because of the video
comment by downsouf (U4095)
It's all about ensuring the well-being for one another. The 3 officials enter the pitch as a team and they depart as a team.
There are usually post-match dramas and protestations that follow and the referee and his two linesmen (I hate that term assistants) stand firm in the face of unnecessary provocation and abuse. No-one else on that pitch is going to look after them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm aware they enter and leave the field as a team, I just find it a pity they don't always work as a team. As for being looked after, the police can enter the field to protect them.
I'm aware they enter and leave the field as a team, I just find it a pity they don't always work as a team. As for being looked after, the police can enter the field to protect them.
---------------------------------------------------------/-
That's the responsibility of the club's stewards, not police officers.
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posted on 23/2/15
I didn't think yesterday's ref treated us any differently than Everton
posted on 23/2/15
The ref saw the incident, if they go and ban Barnes etc they aren't even showing respect to the refs themselves If he saw it and they overruled him it shows hes not competent enough to do his job and what message would that send?
In Barnes defence, horrific challenge however unlike his first one on Ivanovic I think it was an accident he went to clear the ball got a flick on the ball as Matic knick it and the follow through just happened.
posted on 23/2/15
Without doubt officials have been worse than ever this season. Just the weekend past alone, threw up a ridiculous amount of massive mistakes. In the Liverpool game there were at least two penalties not given. Southampton had a stonewall penalty turned down, which was scandalous that it wasn't given.
Chelsea had at least one penalty not given which was stonewall and perhaps another on Costa, which for me was a definite penalty.
Arsenal got a penalty for a challenge outside the box and their second goal was offside.
Matic sent off for a push, the player he pushed yellow carded for an unintentionally but dangerous potentially career threatening injury.
I had a bet on Swansea, Hull, Arsenal, Forest and Fulham, £10 was getting me £870, so was paying particular interest to those games and only needed Fulham to score but the officials ruled their perfectly good 87th minute goal as offside.
It's been happening all season, mostly it's the refusal to give blatant penalties which frustrates me, like referees are afraid to give them.
Some referees fire out yellow cards like confetti and some try not to give them at all. It's crazy.
The United game in the cup Rooney was clearly offside according to the rules, rules which by the way are not what Keown and most people seem to claim, if you don't touch the ball you aren't offside, nonsense. Part of the rule is about you making a movement which distracts the defending player, in that case the goalkeeper. Then of course Rooney's clear dive, having jumped over the challenge already.
Apart from Arsenal, I don't think any team has benefited more than others from decisions, this season but certainly I'd put Liverpool and Chelsea up there as having had a lot of wrong decisions go against them.
posted on 23/2/15
Arsenal pen was on the line and borderline it was hardly a howler that was a couple of yards outside the box.
Oh and what motd forgot to show u was Ozil scoring a goal in the first ten mins which was not given due to an offside which was incorrect.
posted on 24/2/15
Referees are shocking, they don't have the bottle to make the big decisions as they see them, they make them as the 4th official or Jose Mourinho might see them.
As for 'assistant referees' they're also a joke. You watch them. At throw ins, they wait for the referee to make his decision, then wave their flag to agree with him.
Love how they all run towards each other in the centre circle at the end of the game and the referee holds the match ball.
posted on 24/2/15
There is no doubt they are getting worse and worse,i accept that at times i may have seen things through blue glasses, but when keith Hackett ex-head of refs says 5 or 6 are not prem league quality then we have a big problem
They are not accountable enough, and are not punished hard enough for their errors, they know that they can get away with being poor , and they do.
The fa are totally to blame , they must be aware of the problems in the game and yet they do nothing.
take Mike Jones, his perfomance at Liverpool was out rageous, but they make no statement about this.
he really should have been banned from prem for rest of season.
Problem is how we interpret their mistakes, there are honest mistakes and dishonest mistakes.
The ref at the spurs cup game was guilty of one of the most dishonest mistakes i have seen , he is 40 yards away and calls a dive from our player which was clearly a pen, he could not see that from where he was so he gave what he wanted to see, that is dishonest.
Marriner last season sends off the wrong player,and gets the league cup final, what message does that send out.
Some refs tell the linesman just to run the line and not give other decisions, that is dis honest.
Bad luck does not even itself out, and over the years we have had more than our fair share, there is no doubt the refs favour certain teams especially the larger ones, and bottle out of certain decisions.
Ref storms into the dressing room at half time(which against the rules of the game) they do nothing.
They give us a ref at Charlton last year who is a Peterborough fan, and blatantly cheats us out of a result and they do nothing.
The FA have shown that they have nothing but contempt for the fans, and blindly support incompetant refs who through there actions decide the result of the game.
I would estimate that about 25 % of games are decided by the performance of the ref, this is not acceptable.
At last the tv pundits are criticising these jokers, who deserve every bit of stick they get and to me are the biggest problem in the game today.
Players get stick for diving ets ,quite rightly so, bit the refs should get far more for their incompetant and at times dishonest performances.
posted on 24/2/15
Here's the biggest problem with this: At some point, the authorities will get together and discuss issues around refereeing. They will agree that the problem is not about the officials simply not having enough quality, making bad decisions or being unaccountable. Instead, they will agree that referees are in fact under too much scrutiny. They will agree that the real problem is not the fact that they're making mistakes but that people are pointing them out or criticising them in any way. As a result, they will call for less accountability and harsher punishments for managers who dare to do so. Because if we only ignored the problem it might go away on its own.
posted on 24/2/15
It wont go away due to all tv coverage, but the fact remains that they are getting worse season by season.
it seems wrong that refs are not allowed to speak about their decisions and at times admit their faults.
It is equally wrong that managers cannot say that a referees performance was poor. i dont mean that they should be abused, but a manager should be able to express his disappointment in a decision.
In the eyes of the FA they cannot be criticised, so equally they cannot be praised.
They do not help themselves by their manner and apparent arrogance, and i am afraid that some performances have been so bad that even as a neutral you have to question their impartiallity.
Like i said before they close ranks, so when the likes of Hackett say they are bad, then they must be bad.
Interesting to note that since they became professionals ,the amount they are paid seems to reflect their performance in reverse.
When we see european matches , the quality of fitness and decision making is so much better that they may be a case of trying European refs in our league.
posted on 24/2/15
comment by thorneyfox (U5061)
posted 4 hours, 44 minutes ago
Problem is how we interpret their mistakes, there are honest mistakes and dishonest mistakes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a bit of both. I think they're just incompetent. They have to be 100% sure before they can give a decision. If they're not 100% sure, they can't possibly give it, simple as that, and anything else is guesswork and therefore dishonest. They are also influenced by the teams they are refereeing, and allow themselves to get surrounded by players. At one time only a captain could approach a referee to question a decision. We need that scenario back again. Referees ought also to consult their linesmen more. It's a team of three, so work as a team.
Finally, it's a complete joke that Champions League games get an additional two officials working the penalty areas. I wonder how many give penalties and free kicks for the shirt-pulling and wrestling that goes on at corners?
posted on 24/2/15
comment by thorneyfox (U5061)
posted 2 hours, 4 minutes ago
It is equally wrong that managers cannot say that a referees performance was poor. I dont mean that they should be abused, but a manager should be able to express his disappointment in a decision.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think all managers and clubs are well within their rights to contest any decision and use video evidence to support any claims of poor refereeing, whether it be wrong yellow and red cards, dives, real penalties, whatever.
Let everyone see the evidence, let's get everything out into the open, call the refs and assistant refs out, and if they have made an obvious and gross mistake, if they haven't had the balls to make the right decision, drop them.
If managers are forbidden from doing this by some rule they have to sign up to at the beginning of every season, then those sign-up rules ought to be changed.
This works both ways, of course. Any manager fabricating trumped-up claims of poor decisions could be found out big time for the myopic liars they are.
posted on 24/2/15
Love how they all run towards each other in the centre circle at the end of the game and the referee holds the match ball.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's all about ensuring the well-being for one another. The 3 officials enter the pitch as a team and they depart as a team.
There are usually post-match dramas and protestations that follow and the referee and his two linesmen (I hate that term assistants) stand firm in the face of unnecessary provocation and abuse. No-one else on that pitch is going to look after them.
posted on 24/2/15
comment by The_Dungeon_Master (U4830)
posted 6 hours, 45 minutes ago
Here's the biggest problem with this: At some point, the authorities will get together and discuss issues around refereeing. They will agree that the problem is not about the officials simply not having enough quality, making bad decisions or being unaccountable. Instead, they will agree that referees are in fact under too much scrutiny. They will agree that the real problem is not the fact that they're making mistakes but that people are pointing them out or criticising them in any way. As a result, they will call for less accountability and harsher punishments for managers who dare to do so. Because if we only ignored the problem it might go away on its own.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
E
posted on 24/2/15
Exactly and that's why we have got to this point. It has been ignored and brushed off as referees do a difficult job and make mistakes. We can all accept that. What we don't accept is the standard declining and more mistakes than ever. I made an article months ago saying that it has got to crisis point. That was brushed off by most claiming we have replays. We had replays five years ago and there were less mistakes.
The simple fact is the refereesing standard is dropping season on season and something needs to be done about it. You watch the Champions League and the European referees do a much better job.
posted on 24/2/15
I have to think from the other point of view. And I'm not saying the quality of refereeing doesn't need attention.
If you make referees accountable for their decisions then surely this puts the result (of the game) in dispute?
posted on 24/2/15
If, for example; The ref comes out after the game and is questioned by a sky reporter on a decision he has made not to award a penalty to team X, proceeds to explain his decision and why, then it is proved to him he was wrong using video. He has no choice but to then say..."Yeah I made the wrong decision" - Therfore the result of the whole match is in question and dispute.
Bum deal, rematch..start again.
Only when the video evidence we see on TV and highlights programmes is actually used to agree real-time decisions, is when we see accountable referees.
posted on 24/2/15
By which time, hopefully, there is no question of biased or incompetence because of the video
posted on 26/2/15
comment by downsouf (U4095)
It's all about ensuring the well-being for one another. The 3 officials enter the pitch as a team and they depart as a team.
There are usually post-match dramas and protestations that follow and the referee and his two linesmen (I hate that term assistants) stand firm in the face of unnecessary provocation and abuse. No-one else on that pitch is going to look after them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm aware they enter and leave the field as a team, I just find it a pity they don't always work as a team. As for being looked after, the police can enter the field to protect them.
posted on 27/2/15
I'm aware they enter and leave the field as a team, I just find it a pity they don't always work as a team. As for being looked after, the police can enter the field to protect them.
---------------------------------------------------------/-
That's the responsibility of the club's stewards, not police officers.
Page 1 of 1