English sport needs to have a good look at itself. We just don't do team sports. Football, cricket and now rugby: dumped out in the first round of the world cup.
We seem to live in another universe to the rest of the world. The cricketers were playing 1980s style cricket. The footballers seemed like they believed their own press and the rugby team was just headless chickens.
We won the ashes in the cricket but that was largely individuals stepping up rather than any huge team effort.
There needs to be an attempt to plan long term. And/or prepare players for the coaching role. We can bring in a good coach and maybe even win the next WC but what happens next? All the players retire and head off to jobs in the media?
Sorry I don't really have any solutions but being English and living in Australia is difficult enough at the best of times...and now this!
Demus
You ask 'What now'?
Well, you could sit back and enjoy the rest of the tournament, sit back and enjoy the spectacle of others doing what your boys couldn't.
Now, how was that famous song in 1978? I refer of course to that sporting classic, Ally's Army.
How did it go, or at least paraphrased? Oh yes,
........... England cannae dae it coz they didnae qualify.
Oh, we're on the march wi' Cotter's Army ..................
Mate, it's rare I get the chance to rub it in, especially when a Sassenach has served it up on a plate, but seeing as you have, then have it.
I know it will probably blow up in my face on Saturday afternoon, but that's the way it is as a Scotland rugby fan. But I'm sure as hell going to enjoy it while I can.
And you can keep your thieving mitts off Jim Mallinder. I see he's being touted - again.
Well I don't want Mallinder but he is an RFU man so I could see it happening. I can even see them keeping Lancaster and Farrell.
As for the tourney, of course I will still be enjoying it! Watching Samoa put your lot over their knees should be a laugh
Ooh Demus, it's there a smidgen of bitterness in your comment.
In work tomorrow, but have ensured I get to sneak out to watch it in a pub. Alcohol ban at work so will be diet coke only .
Other colas are available .
Not at all, if you go on to win the tournament, then I will be bitter ^^ So I think I'm safe!
Being a Scot, I assume the diet coke comes in a flask with a heavy dose of something more befitting of a highland diet.
I wish it did mate,I wish it did, but sadly not. I love Scotland, I love my rugby, but there are overriding priorities
The only way to sort it is to have realistic expectations from the media!
The media are irrelevant, just background noise.
Demus
Maybe so, but the noise they make attracts the ears of the unknowing. For that reason they are very relevant, and it is our duty, yours and mine, and every like minded rugby follower, to 'out' them as the charlatans they are wherever and whenever we can.
Hi there Chaps,
A number of things have to happen. First clear targets have to be set, I would suggest that these are to win the Six Nations within two years and to win the 2019 World Cup. For a nation of England's standing - and likewise were it France, Australia etc targeting a semi final appearance is not progress and progress is what we need.
To this end we have to get a coach that can deliver this. Stuart Lancaster strikes me as a fundamentally decent and likeable man, but as Harry Truman had it the buck stops here and with home advantage England failed on the biggest stage and spectacularly so. The Johnson and Ashton years were grim but at least we won stuff and made some small progress in the World Cup, so whilst I like Lancaster as a human being he has to go.
Everything must then be focussed on delivering these aims, the RFU's strengths are money and a lot of players and this leverage has to be used first to get the best coaches and to deliver what they need to be successful. This means on November 1st calling Steve Hansen, Michael Cheika and Joe Schmidt and essentially offering them a blank cheque, whatever they need to make the move whether its a slate at Harrods for the wife or a place at Eton for the son the RFU have to sort it out.
What we have seen as that we are not good enough, to this end the ban on overseas players has to go - Steffon Armitage and Nick Abendanon have won European player of the year for the last 3 years, leaving them out is a luxury we can no longer afford, similarly Manu Tuilagi and Dylan Hartley, we cannot win with one hand tied round our balls.
Hey Sars! You need to post a bit more mate
First of all, I completely agree on Lancaster but it can't just be him. All the coaches need to go and Andrew with them.
As for the targets, I think they are more than achievable myself, we are seeing some unbelievable talent coming through the ranks in recent years. The fact we have won 2 junior WC and finished runner up in the previous three years speaks for itself. The coach is key, Ireland and Australia show that clear as day.
I think the RFU don't realise that the best way to grow the game (which is how they spend most of their money) is a successful England team, so paying a large amount of money for a top coach is a sound investment. I don't rate Hansen personally (he is both riding the wave of Henry's legacy and benefiting from Smith) and whilst I think Cheika has done an amazing job with the convicts I'm not sure he would be the right fit for England.
Schmidt would be brilliant but it might not please some around here^^ As I said in the OP though, Rennie & Smith are the best guys out there, and both have shown interest (Rennie has said multiple times he wants to coach abroad, and Smith has said he wants to come back to England). I'm disappointed that their names don't seem to be talked about in the media.
Baxter, Ford, Mallinder etc would all be very poor choices.
Now, to disagree, I feel very strongly about keeping the overseas rule so let me explain why. Most importantly, it would open the floodgates for all the young English talent to go to France, and France is a brutal league of attrition. I don't think this would be good for the national team. Secondly we have a very strong league ourselves and it would very much weaken the quality of it.
As for Abendanon, he was playing like that for Bath, it is just he gets an armchair ride at Clermont so he looks better. Mike Brown is a better player, and I am also sure Nowell and Watson are better too. As for Armitage, ignoring the fact that he tried to switch allegiance to France, he is probably the best English fetcher ok. We haven't been playing a fetcher though have we, and to be honest your boy Kvesic has been brilliant for a couple of years without getting a sniff. If he had spent the last two years in a Toulon shirt would he be getting the plaudits Armitage has. The Hartley decision was stupid and made worse by sticking with Youngs when George played far better in both the Prem last year and the warm up games. Tuilagi was injured anyway and has barely played for a year, he needs to get back into it at Leicester.
So I both agree and disagree with you haha
Btw the panel to look at what went wrong has been named.
Ian Ritchie
Ben Kay
Ian McGeechan
Ian Metcalfe
Ian Watmore
Basically everyone named Ian they could find.
I shall watch with interest from afar, but why would Schmidt want to get embroiled in the uber politics of English rugby. Apparently there was loads of it in the run up to the tournament, not least the rumours of Lancaster telling Burrell he was in the squad but being overruled from above, so Burgess was in.
That's probably nonsense, but it wouldn't shock me to learn it was true.
It was Farrell who made the call on Burgess and on dropping Ford. It's all rumour though, pointless discussing.
Firstly i wouldn't begrudge Schmidt his choices. He's his own man and owes us nothing after delivering for us in spades. But just so you are aware. he's stated that the Irish doctors who were provided to help his kid(who's got some serious form of epilepsy) were the greatest thing to ever happen to him and his kid is enjoying a fully normal life thanks to them. Playin rugby too... His misses loves ireland and indeed his kid is learning irish. Not to mention Schmidt had just been granted and accepted irish citizenship and all that includes. which can't be a whole lot ahahaha
Anyway, i reckon he's off the market for an RFU suicide mission.
Second. I do think Cheika would suit better, but that aint gonna happen. just replay the blowing of the final whistle of the England Oz game and you will see the face of a man enjoying more openly than he probably should knocking you guys out of the competition.
Im a massive fan of no nonsense Cheika tho. that's a man who doesn't suffer fools. in fact calls them out happily. hahahha And for that reason, again... would not want the suicide mission under the RFU blanket of control.
Honestly chaps, yuo have had a few decent guys in place since the WC win, but they were undone by the men in suits.
The suits need to change. Plenty of decent coaches out there but they need to be allowed to do their job. And credit to Lancaster. A gentleman of the highest regard in my book and look where he took you on. From dwarf throwing ferry jumping hotel room scandals to this. But a bright future no doubt with a lot of young talent who need to be trusted and nurtured.
Eddie O'Sullivan is on the market BTW. you can have him. free
comment by Aristodemus (U3765)
posted 5 hours, 24 minutes ago
Btw the panel to look at what went wrong has been named.
Ian Ritchie
Ben Kay
Ian McGeechan
Ian Metcalfe
Ian Watmore
Basically everyone named Ian they could find.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Geech.... like seriously? no offence Show but Geech is a hasbeen bumbling fool. He's a man from a bygone era of amateur standards and amateur ideals. And tho myself and Show lament those days, Geech is well and truly redundant in the modern game. Frankly, this review board should have been made up of the likes of Brian O'Driscoll and Woodward. Bod for an outside view of the England game, and woodward for a proven track record in the professional era. Geech! jesus. this is already off on the wrong foot.
A man partly responsible for appointing Lancaster who has already said in the media that he should be kept on in his role. Not exactly what I hoped for either Ding.
Unless he's there to make tea and tell the odd anecdote, I reckon he's basically useless.
comment by DingBatMan ™©®☺ (U3857)
posted 10 hours ago
comment by Aristodemus (U3765)
posted 5 hours, 24 minutes ago
Btw the panel to look at what went wrong has been named.
Ian Ritchie
Ben Kay
Ian McGeechan
Ian Metcalfe
Ian Watmore
Basically everyone named Ian they could find.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Geech.... like seriously? no offence Show but Geech is a hasbeen bumbling fool. He's a man from a bygone era of amateur standards and amateur ideals. And tho myself and Show lament those days, Geech is well and truly redundant in the modern game. Frankly, this review board should have been made up of the likes of Brian O'Driscoll and Woodward. Bod for an outside view of the England game, and woodward for a proven track record in the professional era. Geech! jesus. this is already off on the wrong foot.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ding
Why in the name of the wee man would BOD want to get involved. Any man with half a brain would want to steer well clear of this poison chalice.
Guys I think you're being a wee bit disrespectful to Geech. OK, he shouldn't be on this panel but that's because he doesn't have the heart/passion for English rugby that this requires. He's not "useless", he's not a "has been bumbling fool".
A bit of respect for our elders and betters please.
comment by theresgonnaebeashow - Ron Deila IS Ragnar Lodb... (U5686)
posted 1 hour, 5 minutes ago
comment by DingBatMan ™©®☺ (U3857)
posted 10 hours ago
comment by Aristodemus (U3765)
posted 5 hours, 24 minutes ago
Btw the panel to look at what went wrong has been named.
Ian Ritchie
Ben Kay
Ian McGeechan
Ian Metcalfe
Ian Watmore
Basically everyone named Ian they could find.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Geech.... like seriously? no offence Show but Geech is a hasbeen bumbling fool. He's a man from a bygone era of amateur standards and amateur ideals. And tho myself and Show lament those days, Geech is well and truly redundant in the modern game. Frankly, this review board should have been made up of the likes of Brian O'Driscoll and Woodward. Bod for an outside view of the England game, and woodward for a proven track record in the professional era. Geech! jesus. this is already off on the wrong foot.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ding
Why in the name of the wee man would BOD want to get involved. Any man with half a brain would want to steer well clear of this poison chalice.
Guys I think you're being a wee bit disrespectful to Geech. OK, he shouldn't be on this panel but that's because he doesn't have the heart/passion for English rugby that this requires. He's not "useless", he's not a "has been bumbling fool".
A bit of respect for our elders and betters please.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry show...
Well, I will stick to redundant then. He's well past it mate. That's my point. The England team need modern thinking people for this review. Not guys stuck in a bygone era. Plenty of respect for geech and his past glories.... indeed long past glories of the amateur era. But redundant these days and im sticking to that view.
As far as BoD goes, i mean in terms of the review board. their brief is the review the WC performance or lack there of, and turn in recommendations as to how the RFU should proceed. BoD is simply an example of a possible outsider's more importantly a person who will contradict everyone. (10th man theory) BoD is an example, better still a SH person but most definitely an exponent of the modern game and what it takes to get to the top of the pile. Ireland may never have made it, which speaks volumes for BoD and what he could offer as he is widely regarded as the best 13 to ever play the game, even when playing with a bad team. All im saying is this review needs modernity and knowledge. not anecdotal friendly types from the past.
Maybe the should ask Dylan Hartley, Luther Burrell and Danny Cipriani what they think. At least the answers would be honest and from the heart.
Seriously though, when they need leadership they set up a feckin committee. Like all committees it will come out with a concensus view rather than what is really needed.
What is needed is to put the past behind them, not rake over the cold coals. Then give someONE the authority to do something about it and leave them to get on with it. You've done it with Schmidt, Wales did it with Gatland and it looks like we've done it with Cotter, though that eejit Johnson is still lurking somewhere. That's what England need to do.
BTW, I get what you say about Geech, and I agree with you
comment by theresgonnaebeashow - Ron Deila IS Ragnar Lodb... (U5686)
posted 1 second ago
Maybe the should ask Dylan Hartley, Luther Burrell and Danny Cipriani what they think. At least the answers would be honest and from the heart.
Seriously though, when they need leadership they set up a feckin committee. Like all committees it will come out with a concensus view rather than what is really needed.
What is needed is to put the past behind them, not rake over the cold coals. Then give someONE the authority to do something about it and leave them to get on with it. You've done it with Schmidt, Wales did it with Gatland and it looks like we've done it with Cotter, though that eejit Johnson is still lurking somewhere. That's what England need to do.
BTW, I get what you say about Geech, and I agree with you
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Damn right you agree with me! hahaha
And ye, i agree with you. Hence the tenth man theory. I really don't think England have had all bad coaches in the past 12 years tho. But seems to me the coaches have had suits whispering in their ears or something. When constantly under pressure for your job and indeed to deliver for your country the stress has got to tell. So in that respect, an outside coach who has balls, i.e a Cheika type would be the ideal. The kind of guy who will tell ian Richie et al to stick it.
The kind of guy who will tell ian Richie et al to stick it.
___________________________________________
Like that's ever gonna happen.
This kinda committee approach is more likely to go deliver someone like Saint-Andre.
comment by theresgonnaebeashow - Ron Deila IS Ragnar Lodb... (U5686)
posted 1 hour, 51 minutes ago
The kind of guy who will tell ian Richie et al to stick it.
___________________________________________
Like that's ever gonna happen.
This kinda committee approach is more likely to go deliver someone like Saint-Andre.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Does anyone find it cringe worthy that Woodward clearly wants it but won't put his name forward. I wants the RFU to bang on his door and beg him. He was the epitome of professionalism tho at one point. But the exact opposite of a hands on coach... hell does the man even own a pair of boots?
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What now?
Page 1 of 4
posted on 6/10/15
English sport needs to have a good look at itself. We just don't do team sports. Football, cricket and now rugby: dumped out in the first round of the world cup.
We seem to live in another universe to the rest of the world. The cricketers were playing 1980s style cricket. The footballers seemed like they believed their own press and the rugby team was just headless chickens.
We won the ashes in the cricket but that was largely individuals stepping up rather than any huge team effort.
There needs to be an attempt to plan long term. And/or prepare players for the coaching role. We can bring in a good coach and maybe even win the next WC but what happens next? All the players retire and head off to jobs in the media?
Sorry I don't really have any solutions but being English and living in Australia is difficult enough at the best of times...and now this!
posted on 8/10/15
Demus
You ask 'What now'?
Well, you could sit back and enjoy the rest of the tournament, sit back and enjoy the spectacle of others doing what your boys couldn't.
Now, how was that famous song in 1978? I refer of course to that sporting classic, Ally's Army.
How did it go, or at least paraphrased? Oh yes,
........... England cannae dae it coz they didnae qualify.
Oh, we're on the march wi' Cotter's Army ..................
Mate, it's rare I get the chance to rub it in, especially when a Sassenach has served it up on a plate, but seeing as you have, then have it.
I know it will probably blow up in my face on Saturday afternoon, but that's the way it is as a Scotland rugby fan. But I'm sure as hell going to enjoy it while I can.
posted on 8/10/15
And you can keep your thieving mitts off Jim Mallinder. I see he's being touted - again.
posted on 9/10/15
Well I don't want Mallinder but he is an RFU man so I could see it happening. I can even see them keeping Lancaster and Farrell.
As for the tourney, of course I will still be enjoying it! Watching Samoa put your lot over their knees should be a laugh
posted on 9/10/15
Ooh Demus, it's there a smidgen of bitterness in your comment.
In work tomorrow, but have ensured I get to sneak out to watch it in a pub. Alcohol ban at work so will be diet coke only .
Other colas are available .
posted on 9/10/15
Not at all, if you go on to win the tournament, then I will be bitter ^^ So I think I'm safe!
Being a Scot, I assume the diet coke comes in a flask with a heavy dose of something more befitting of a highland diet.
posted on 10/10/15
I wish it did mate,I wish it did, but sadly not. I love Scotland, I love my rugby, but there are overriding priorities
posted on 15/10/15
The only way to sort it is to have realistic expectations from the media!
posted on 15/10/15
The media are irrelevant, just background noise.
posted on 15/10/15
Demus
Maybe so, but the noise they make attracts the ears of the unknowing. For that reason they are very relevant, and it is our duty, yours and mine, and every like minded rugby follower, to 'out' them as the charlatans they are wherever and whenever we can.
posted on 19/10/15
Hi there Chaps,
A number of things have to happen. First clear targets have to be set, I would suggest that these are to win the Six Nations within two years and to win the 2019 World Cup. For a nation of England's standing - and likewise were it France, Australia etc targeting a semi final appearance is not progress and progress is what we need.
To this end we have to get a coach that can deliver this. Stuart Lancaster strikes me as a fundamentally decent and likeable man, but as Harry Truman had it the buck stops here and with home advantage England failed on the biggest stage and spectacularly so. The Johnson and Ashton years were grim but at least we won stuff and made some small progress in the World Cup, so whilst I like Lancaster as a human being he has to go.
Everything must then be focussed on delivering these aims, the RFU's strengths are money and a lot of players and this leverage has to be used first to get the best coaches and to deliver what they need to be successful. This means on November 1st calling Steve Hansen, Michael Cheika and Joe Schmidt and essentially offering them a blank cheque, whatever they need to make the move whether its a slate at Harrods for the wife or a place at Eton for the son the RFU have to sort it out.
What we have seen as that we are not good enough, to this end the ban on overseas players has to go - Steffon Armitage and Nick Abendanon have won European player of the year for the last 3 years, leaving them out is a luxury we can no longer afford, similarly Manu Tuilagi and Dylan Hartley, we cannot win with one hand tied round our balls.
posted on 19/10/15
Hey Sars! You need to post a bit more mate
First of all, I completely agree on Lancaster but it can't just be him. All the coaches need to go and Andrew with them.
As for the targets, I think they are more than achievable myself, we are seeing some unbelievable talent coming through the ranks in recent years. The fact we have won 2 junior WC and finished runner up in the previous three years speaks for itself. The coach is key, Ireland and Australia show that clear as day.
I think the RFU don't realise that the best way to grow the game (which is how they spend most of their money) is a successful England team, so paying a large amount of money for a top coach is a sound investment. I don't rate Hansen personally (he is both riding the wave of Henry's legacy and benefiting from Smith) and whilst I think Cheika has done an amazing job with the convicts I'm not sure he would be the right fit for England.
Schmidt would be brilliant but it might not please some around here^^ As I said in the OP though, Rennie & Smith are the best guys out there, and both have shown interest (Rennie has said multiple times he wants to coach abroad, and Smith has said he wants to come back to England). I'm disappointed that their names don't seem to be talked about in the media.
Baxter, Ford, Mallinder etc would all be very poor choices.
Now, to disagree, I feel very strongly about keeping the overseas rule so let me explain why. Most importantly, it would open the floodgates for all the young English talent to go to France, and France is a brutal league of attrition. I don't think this would be good for the national team. Secondly we have a very strong league ourselves and it would very much weaken the quality of it.
As for Abendanon, he was playing like that for Bath, it is just he gets an armchair ride at Clermont so he looks better. Mike Brown is a better player, and I am also sure Nowell and Watson are better too. As for Armitage, ignoring the fact that he tried to switch allegiance to France, he is probably the best English fetcher ok. We haven't been playing a fetcher though have we, and to be honest your boy Kvesic has been brilliant for a couple of years without getting a sniff. If he had spent the last two years in a Toulon shirt would he be getting the plaudits Armitage has. The Hartley decision was stupid and made worse by sticking with Youngs when George played far better in both the Prem last year and the warm up games. Tuilagi was injured anyway and has barely played for a year, he needs to get back into it at Leicester.
So I both agree and disagree with you haha
posted on 19/10/15
Btw the panel to look at what went wrong has been named.
Ian Ritchie
Ben Kay
Ian McGeechan
Ian Metcalfe
Ian Watmore
Basically everyone named Ian they could find.
posted on 19/10/15
I shall watch with interest from afar, but why would Schmidt want to get embroiled in the uber politics of English rugby. Apparently there was loads of it in the run up to the tournament, not least the rumours of Lancaster telling Burrell he was in the squad but being overruled from above, so Burgess was in.
That's probably nonsense, but it wouldn't shock me to learn it was true.
posted on 19/10/15
It was Farrell who made the call on Burgess and on dropping Ford. It's all rumour though, pointless discussing.
posted on 20/10/15
Firstly i wouldn't begrudge Schmidt his choices. He's his own man and owes us nothing after delivering for us in spades. But just so you are aware. he's stated that the Irish doctors who were provided to help his kid(who's got some serious form of epilepsy) were the greatest thing to ever happen to him and his kid is enjoying a fully normal life thanks to them. Playin rugby too... His misses loves ireland and indeed his kid is learning irish. Not to mention Schmidt had just been granted and accepted irish citizenship and all that includes. which can't be a whole lot ahahaha
Anyway, i reckon he's off the market for an RFU suicide mission.
Second. I do think Cheika would suit better, but that aint gonna happen. just replay the blowing of the final whistle of the England Oz game and you will see the face of a man enjoying more openly than he probably should knocking you guys out of the competition.
Im a massive fan of no nonsense Cheika tho. that's a man who doesn't suffer fools. in fact calls them out happily. hahahha And for that reason, again... would not want the suicide mission under the RFU blanket of control.
Honestly chaps, yuo have had a few decent guys in place since the WC win, but they were undone by the men in suits.
The suits need to change. Plenty of decent coaches out there but they need to be allowed to do their job. And credit to Lancaster. A gentleman of the highest regard in my book and look where he took you on. From dwarf throwing ferry jumping hotel room scandals to this. But a bright future no doubt with a lot of young talent who need to be trusted and nurtured.
Eddie O'Sullivan is on the market BTW. you can have him. free
posted on 20/10/15
comment by Aristodemus (U3765)
posted 5 hours, 24 minutes ago
Btw the panel to look at what went wrong has been named.
Ian Ritchie
Ben Kay
Ian McGeechan
Ian Metcalfe
Ian Watmore
Basically everyone named Ian they could find.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Geech.... like seriously? no offence Show but Geech is a hasbeen bumbling fool. He's a man from a bygone era of amateur standards and amateur ideals. And tho myself and Show lament those days, Geech is well and truly redundant in the modern game. Frankly, this review board should have been made up of the likes of Brian O'Driscoll and Woodward. Bod for an outside view of the England game, and woodward for a proven track record in the professional era. Geech! jesus. this is already off on the wrong foot.
posted on 20/10/15
A man partly responsible for appointing Lancaster who has already said in the media that he should be kept on in his role. Not exactly what I hoped for either Ding.
posted on 20/10/15
Unless he's there to make tea and tell the odd anecdote, I reckon he's basically useless.
posted on 20/10/15
comment by DingBatMan ™©®☺ (U3857)
posted 10 hours ago
comment by Aristodemus (U3765)
posted 5 hours, 24 minutes ago
Btw the panel to look at what went wrong has been named.
Ian Ritchie
Ben Kay
Ian McGeechan
Ian Metcalfe
Ian Watmore
Basically everyone named Ian they could find.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Geech.... like seriously? no offence Show but Geech is a hasbeen bumbling fool. He's a man from a bygone era of amateur standards and amateur ideals. And tho myself and Show lament those days, Geech is well and truly redundant in the modern game. Frankly, this review board should have been made up of the likes of Brian O'Driscoll and Woodward. Bod for an outside view of the England game, and woodward for a proven track record in the professional era. Geech! jesus. this is already off on the wrong foot.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ding
Why in the name of the wee man would BOD want to get involved. Any man with half a brain would want to steer well clear of this poison chalice.
Guys I think you're being a wee bit disrespectful to Geech. OK, he shouldn't be on this panel but that's because he doesn't have the heart/passion for English rugby that this requires. He's not "useless", he's not a "has been bumbling fool".
A bit of respect for our elders and betters please.
posted on 20/10/15
comment by theresgonnaebeashow - Ron Deila IS Ragnar Lodb... (U5686)
posted 1 hour, 5 minutes ago
comment by DingBatMan ™©®☺ (U3857)
posted 10 hours ago
comment by Aristodemus (U3765)
posted 5 hours, 24 minutes ago
Btw the panel to look at what went wrong has been named.
Ian Ritchie
Ben Kay
Ian McGeechan
Ian Metcalfe
Ian Watmore
Basically everyone named Ian they could find.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Geech.... like seriously? no offence Show but Geech is a hasbeen bumbling fool. He's a man from a bygone era of amateur standards and amateur ideals. And tho myself and Show lament those days, Geech is well and truly redundant in the modern game. Frankly, this review board should have been made up of the likes of Brian O'Driscoll and Woodward. Bod for an outside view of the England game, and woodward for a proven track record in the professional era. Geech! jesus. this is already off on the wrong foot.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ding
Why in the name of the wee man would BOD want to get involved. Any man with half a brain would want to steer well clear of this poison chalice.
Guys I think you're being a wee bit disrespectful to Geech. OK, he shouldn't be on this panel but that's because he doesn't have the heart/passion for English rugby that this requires. He's not "useless", he's not a "has been bumbling fool".
A bit of respect for our elders and betters please.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry show...
Well, I will stick to redundant then. He's well past it mate. That's my point. The England team need modern thinking people for this review. Not guys stuck in a bygone era. Plenty of respect for geech and his past glories.... indeed long past glories of the amateur era. But redundant these days and im sticking to that view.
As far as BoD goes, i mean in terms of the review board. their brief is the review the WC performance or lack there of, and turn in recommendations as to how the RFU should proceed. BoD is simply an example of a possible outsider's more importantly a person who will contradict everyone. (10th man theory) BoD is an example, better still a SH person but most definitely an exponent of the modern game and what it takes to get to the top of the pile. Ireland may never have made it, which speaks volumes for BoD and what he could offer as he is widely regarded as the best 13 to ever play the game, even when playing with a bad team. All im saying is this review needs modernity and knowledge. not anecdotal friendly types from the past.
posted on 20/10/15
Maybe the should ask Dylan Hartley, Luther Burrell and Danny Cipriani what they think. At least the answers would be honest and from the heart.
Seriously though, when they need leadership they set up a feckin committee. Like all committees it will come out with a concensus view rather than what is really needed.
What is needed is to put the past behind them, not rake over the cold coals. Then give someONE the authority to do something about it and leave them to get on with it. You've done it with Schmidt, Wales did it with Gatland and it looks like we've done it with Cotter, though that eejit Johnson is still lurking somewhere. That's what England need to do.
BTW, I get what you say about Geech, and I agree with you
posted on 20/10/15
comment by theresgonnaebeashow - Ron Deila IS Ragnar Lodb... (U5686)
posted 1 second ago
Maybe the should ask Dylan Hartley, Luther Burrell and Danny Cipriani what they think. At least the answers would be honest and from the heart.
Seriously though, when they need leadership they set up a feckin committee. Like all committees it will come out with a concensus view rather than what is really needed.
What is needed is to put the past behind them, not rake over the cold coals. Then give someONE the authority to do something about it and leave them to get on with it. You've done it with Schmidt, Wales did it with Gatland and it looks like we've done it with Cotter, though that eejit Johnson is still lurking somewhere. That's what England need to do.
BTW, I get what you say about Geech, and I agree with you
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Damn right you agree with me! hahaha
And ye, i agree with you. Hence the tenth man theory. I really don't think England have had all bad coaches in the past 12 years tho. But seems to me the coaches have had suits whispering in their ears or something. When constantly under pressure for your job and indeed to deliver for your country the stress has got to tell. So in that respect, an outside coach who has balls, i.e a Cheika type would be the ideal. The kind of guy who will tell ian Richie et al to stick it.
posted on 20/10/15
The kind of guy who will tell ian Richie et al to stick it.
___________________________________________
Like that's ever gonna happen.
This kinda committee approach is more likely to go deliver someone like Saint-Andre.
posted on 20/10/15
comment by theresgonnaebeashow - Ron Deila IS Ragnar Lodb... (U5686)
posted 1 hour, 51 minutes ago
The kind of guy who will tell ian Richie et al to stick it.
___________________________________________
Like that's ever gonna happen.
This kinda committee approach is more likely to go deliver someone like Saint-Andre.
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Does anyone find it cringe worthy that Woodward clearly wants it but won't put his name forward. I wants the RFU to bang on his door and beg him. He was the epitome of professionalism tho at one point. But the exact opposite of a hands on coach... hell does the man even own a pair of boots?
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