Good read captain, I hope it gets the views it deserves

I haven't seen them live this season, as I was fed up of the style of football on offer. Unfortunately Deano would sell his own kids for a profit, so expect Wells to go (im not that bothered tbh) and Wagbo will be snapped up too, at this rate.

Nice to have you back I'm a bit fed up today, hence my negativity. I'm officially middle aged today (35)the average man dies at 70 so I apologise for my negative comments.

All in your mindset Hydy, stay 20 on your head.. Always.

Happy birthday Hydy

Stonking win. People have been saying we're gonna batter someone soon. Well, they were right

I'll always be 16 in my head, age really doesn't matter.

Happy Birthday Hydy. The benefit of being a football fan at 35 is that you can switch from day dreaming about scoring the winning goal as a player, to standing on the touchline in a gilet ala Tim Sherwood. What more could you want??

5-0 not bad aye. 10 points away from the relegation spots, and only 13 from the playoffs doable, yes?

Good read Cap'n.
But your praise of Olive Oil gave me the s'Hudderz.

Hydy's right, he'd sell ought for profit,
Wagner & any player who shines have to be kept. Not sold on. Even better, Splash out now ! Lets go for it,
otherwise, it's never going to happen, Then fans start to wonder, "What's the point".


5 subs warming up from me

Quite right Darn.

If this guy can get our current lot overperforming then let's back the beggar. Probably missed the boat this season but we need to build on what we've got and who knows...we could be an outside bet next year.

That said by 1st Feb we'll probably have no recognised strikers and we'll be linked with Beckford on loan...

Maybe I'm naive, but I think Wagner will want to go as far as he can with Town. He seems a honest and honourable man, Hoyle took a punt on Wagner and it looks like it's paying off. Wagner may want to repay Hoyle's faith by taking Town to glory times.

Darn - I agree it's very annoying to see our talent moving on each summer to the detriment of the team, but I do not blame Hoyle for that. I’d have an issue if he was genuinely selling them for ‘profit’, but in reality he’s covering losses! We appear to run a model similar to how Porto or Benfica operate, whereby we take young talent, develop it, and sell it ready made to the highest bidder to keep the club sustainable. Looking at the investment the club has put into Canalside, we seem well placed to continue doing this.

At Championship level, we don't have the commercial power to run sustainably without loss, despite towns commercial operation developing considerably under Deano's ownership. We’ve lost a few million each year. Our fan base doesn't bring in the attendances/or merch sales to support the criminal wages paid at this level. Sharing the stadium is costing us revenue. Many of our rivals at this level are better equipped in this sense. Selling our best players is the only way to deal with this issue!

So surely Hoyle getting unfair stick… The way I see Town, without Hoyle taking over in 2009, is as follows:

- We’d be nowhere near the Championship.
- We’d have probably hit financial peril a couple of times.
- Remember Jordan Rhodes? He was fun.
- We’d have an appalling kit make.
- Ken Davy would still have our pants down.
- South Stand wouldn’t be happening.
- I wouldn’t have told every man and his dog to buy their cards from Card Factory, to aid the League One promotion push.
- John McAliskey would be number 9.
- We’d have played Bradford a lot.
- We wouldn’t have Wagner.
- We wouldn’t have a proper Town fan looking after the club.

I could go on, but the point I’m making is that he’s done a lot more for the club than I think people give him credit for, mainly because our transfer policy, which is naturally a very talked about issue, goes against ideal logic. He’s building the club up to be sustainable and putting in his own money to help it get there, which is pretty commendable. £40m so far I believe he’s put in. It probably irks him as much as it will the rest of the Town fans that he has to sell our better players, but that’s just how it is now. When a player wants a move, it’s probably got to happen for everyone’s sake. Look at Berahino – West Brom have stood firm and what for? A player now on the bench and worth less.

I am the Dean Hoyle appreciation society, as you may have gathered from this biblical rant.

UTT.

That 'list' agent LV69 !
Quite substantial, Lets go through it.

'Nowhere near the ch'ship'.
Non of us can say that.
We were Bottom 4 of the owd 4th division, Buxton came along, Whollop . Take that yer Bar Studs...(Not to you guys, I mean the football world in general) glorious times. He'd no pot of gold to help him out, The board as was back then never 'dug deep' to help him out.. & up to now. Wagner has done the same, All through his effort & guile,

As for the appauling kit (make ? what does that matter)
It's beyond 'Appauling' now ...Dig deeper Olive
I Couldn't care less if it was 'Fitsnug' made in Cleckheaton. If it's well made & smart, That's all that matters.
(re- Hyundai cars for example, no one's laughing at them any more)

Davy was the right man at THAT time ! As in when there was no one else or other options.
We (Town) were going to do great things once we got the shares back..
hmmmmmmmmmm. And the problem/fall out was 'chicken seed' in monetary terms to both of these fellas.
A ridiculous hand bag fracas .

South stand wouldn't be happening
All right, I know, you know..That's my pet topic, I'll oblige.
& take the bait
What's been implemented upto now, Is YEARS - too little, too late, Other clubs have tackled this very aspect without too much bother with ease.
And nothing to do with having a 'rich' owner.
The trouble now. Quite a lot of the 'savage' supporters () as our mate 'Bingley terrier' tagged them the other day, & that would be :- Bingley himself, Waltz, Darn..any more ?
who like to stand, and let the emotion flow while watching a game... May well have walked away for now.
The match day atmosphere is as much a part of the occasion as the game itself to many.
And it's going to be hard to get people back to the library there after. 'HTFC-inc' have failed miserably in this instance.

As for 'Mr Hoyle being a proper town fan looking after the club.
Gibson at Boro, he's a 'fan'. probably nowhere near as wealthy as 'Mr Hoyle'.
Walker, The Rovers guiding light, he rebuilt the whole ground, never mind fund what was probably the last small provincial town to win the top league as Champions.
'Union Jack' at Wolves, many years ago.

There are many others, he's not unique in that regard,
There are also lots of 'band wagon' owners who splash the cash from abroad who haven't a cat in hells chance of EVER balancing the books,

(side issue, Cracking gesture considering the circumstances - the Charlton players to reimburse the traveling fans for their poor performance the other night)

My life long mate refers to Hoyle as "The Messiah" !
You can imagine the 'debates' we have
yet he doesn't even clap when Town score (?). Sits in silence through out for the most part.
I used to be continually told to sit darn. And give loud verbal encouragement through out - When I used to
turn up..

Yet you know full well, The likes of me are the very ones Olive & his HTFC-inc operatives would prefer not to turn up at all.

We've got the manager,
We need to keep his choice of players. NOT SELL THEM ON.
Now liaise with 'clubs like' West ham, Palace or Stoke, And copy their interaction they have with their respective fan base.

It's not technological science.

Set 'em alight the Blue & White

Soz guys..
Cap'n sHudderz list, NOT agent LV69

When did you join the agency, agent Darn?

🤓 📞🔫

That's Classified.

😉👍

i have been very impressed with DW since the Wendies game.
we have improved game on game with out fitness levels and the quality of football

I agree it is going to take a while to get the bodies back through the turnstiles, but after ten weeks of shexy football, I was rather shocked when the Charlton attendance was announced.
ok yes it was cold and yes Charlton only brought a few, but 9800 - come one Town fans cant you see whats happening down the 'pharm !!

You're a tough fan to please Darn!

Deano wouldn't be able to do the Boro/Rovers thing due to the FFP (a crime against more modest clubs), I think he's close to putting in the maximum he can each year to support the losses??

FFP really hasn't worked at all in stopping 'bigger' clubs from spending yet Town are being held back from further investment from Deano, or indeed externally.

But a point of reference when I hear Town fans say "lets go for it" and be super ambitious and buy players, is from around the Millennium, when it all went very horribly wrong and administration beckoned... I'd rather have a stable club and take the odd stab in the back from a want away player that we can make cash from than play a game of risk by buying high in a league that is so tight anyway, it's more about having a great setup and coaching team (Howe and Dyche are good examples).

Call me a pessimistic realist but I think Town are at the higher end of our scale - but I don't mind fighting it out in the Champ. It makes periods of form and play like this even better!

UTT.

Fair analysis Cap'n.

I AM a tough fan to please,
You know me so well.
I think more to do with my age group as much as anything, as in 'Grumpy owd man syndrome.

Olive has to be held to account over the hypocrisy in regard to the 'atmosphere' that has become the norm at home fixtures, He always called for the 12th man attitude from the crowd to lift the team, Yet... In the main fully enforced health & safety issues that negate any hope of vociferous, parochial support.
(numerous clubs act to openly encourage the option for the noisy fans to congregate together & do their thing, Whilst leaving the more - lets cal them, - Not as excitable fans, to sit in areas unaffected. And that's Good. provide choice.)

I appreciate your opinion, and accept that, Yes. he is sticking to rules. But I'd still prefer it if he copied Gibson at Boro, The support base maybe limited as is. (No doubt about it) But it is a gamble..& He'd have known that before taking the club on as a hobby.
So, lets ask,
"If" Town did indeed get into the top league.
Would the attendances rise accordingly to sustain the status ? I think they would.
But would like to add.
provision would have to be made to make the whole of the South stand the 'home' end. And be pretty much left to police itself. lots of clubs nation wide allow this in principle, Again I'll cite West Ham Utd, A divided end shared with the visitors. (They all stand)
The opposite end is 100% 'Hammers'..again ALL stood ! Nothing to do with finance, it could be implemented.
I'm frustrated, The players clearly thrive on the above mentioned 'Vociferous, parochial support'.

Just a nit pick here Cap'n !
Mr Hoyle ... has done NOTHING to even tidy up the catering fiasco (& it is). Lets be honest here. When they did that 'catering league' a few years ago, Town came 2nd narrowly pipped by Cambridge United of all clubs !
If 'HTFC-inc' can't get their act together & own & operate the facility in house..(And reputedly pay the likes of Alan Lee close on 10thou a week !) That's a rank bad poor do.
and if the consensus is, "That's negative business practice" then yes, I'll stay away, and the whole show may just as well call it a day and pack up.
If 'we' can't afford that aspect... there is clearly no intention of seeing how far we can progress beyond being 'sustainable',

We'll have to agree to disagree on some aspects Cap'n
But good thread
Keep 'em coming.

I think the stadium lets us down in many ways. It's too big and open for a start. It always feels empty because theres 10000 too many seats, and the open corners suck any of the tepid atmosphere out the stadium. And the whole KSDL and Sporting Pride link is why we can't do our catering or make more profit form corporate events.

Where I'd love Hoyle to show the money, and he could get round FFP this way, would be to stick two to the council/Davy and build the "Andy Booth Arena" (demonstrative name only!!) to properly suit the club going forward.

I think you are way off the mark there captain....i stood in a crowd of nearly 29,000 for a game against barnsley in the early eighties in the now Lg1

Its hard for fans to get enthused when deano sets the bar that low a snake wudni be able to crawl under it!

Openly bragging about being a selling club!...come here use us as a stepping stone......its hardly surprising the locals have started voting with their feet....were not a big club nor a small club...should town reach the promised land the locals would be like rabid dogs trying to get in
Crowds of 20 odd thousand were the norm int eighties against city..newcastle..sunderland etc

Selling the family silver every year is no way to run any business and the ffp excuse is just that an excuse....virtually every club int division is spending 10,s of milluons every season

A player that has just signed a four year deal does not have the upper hand and a year training with the youth team would have sorted him out...the tail shud not be wagging the dog!

Yesssss !
Top suggestion Cap'n.

Although I don't think your man is that committed to do that !
I could hardly blame him, There wouldn't be too many characters around who would go that far even if they did have the brass !
hence Jack Walker at Rovers, What a terrific fan he was, - for them .

It's a shame the Canadian architect who put together our new ground, and worked for us, did it :-
a) 1st.(with us)
b) with Kirklees council involved.

I believe he was also instrumental in the Reebok. which in my opinion is a far better attempt at the concept than what we ended up with.
But 'Town' as a club were restricted i'd suspect,
(I'm not sure, as I was 'Darn unda' even back then, and didn't really know of the events at the given time)
But taking a)..1st, Mistakes & flaws are easily rectified once there is a benchmark to relate to. The McAlpine was the 'Display home'..the improvements come there after.
b), With the council so heavily involved, it was built on a shoestring with out a doubt.
All four trusses form different arch's !
It was initially intended to house the 'home' fans behind the south stand goal..but wasn't finished in time... the rest is 'history'.
The anchor points for the trusses are very badly placed. again dictated by available finance. and have a very detrimental effect on the overall outcome.
(I also question whether Orientation was ever considered ? it's fundamental flawed in this regard.)
Is it fair to say, Brighton's new home is a similar concept to ours & Bolton's formats ? Visually it looks far better than the Reebok I'd say.


Very easy in hindsight, but I'd have preferred it if Leeds Rd had been used a good while longer, And the club had been a bit more patient before going into a full on relocation without the necessary finance in place before committing.
There is also a 'catch 22' with your views above !
(no criticism from me. a genuine 'In between a rock & a hard place' scenario)
10 thou seats too many ! You're right.
But also having a 15 thou capacity would virtually seal the fate of the club, to never be able to reach the dizzy heights of the top league.

Would the extra fans needed turn up to prolong any success ? tricky ! before, in the Old 1st division, it was 5 bob, (5 shillings for a bloke to watch a game).
or 25p. ! , ..well don't laugh actually, Players were still well paid compared to everyone else even back then.
Town attracted close on 40thou+ on three occasions in that 1st season back in the 'big time' ...(Leeds, Man U & Stoke in the FA Cup replay.) But now.
how much would the admission have to be, to be 'sustainable' ? right there i think that tells us we'd never replicate those attendances ever again even if we played Euro stuff !

Have a look at this Cap'n,
I've seen this place close up, I was quite impressed, considering the cost for a fully covered ground, A good effort i thought. Especially as the Town has a comparable population to Hudderz !

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forsyth_Barr_Stadium

Have a good weekend

Looks very much like the b&q distribution center up the road from me darn.....glandford park? Bescott stadium?

The atmosphere in the Mcalpine stadium was rocking right up until relegation in 2001....playoff games against lincoln city...barnsley etc were rocking too and more recently against the dons when alan smith got happy slapped

If the team performs the atmosphere takes care of itself

Nice analysis Darn. Bolton definitely got the "McAlpine +"

That Forsyth Barr Stadium looks pretty impressive. Not conventional but I think that's what makes a stadium decent these days.