comment by Robb Mkhitaryan (U21234)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by itsonlyagame (U6426)
posted 2 minutes ago
I rate Griezmann too, but I don't overrate him.
He relies entirely on his goals. They're what have put him up there in many people's eyes as one of the top players last season, but while he's still a decent player without the goals, that's about it.
Neymar's goals might have dried up, but every single game he still does stuff other players simply can't. There's a huge, huge difference in quality between him and Griezmann.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not a 'huge huge' difference in quality.
I can accept that Neymar is a bit better but he's not superman. Last night for example he was shocking.
Griezmann is a big game player (generally speaking, nothing to do with Neymar) who can play anywhere across the front line. He was exceptional in Atleticos run to the final of the CL last season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what you'd like to think because he's the latest poster boy you think is United-bound, Robb, but yes it is a huge, huge difference quality-wise. Griezmann will never, ever reach Neymar's level as long as the latter doesn't lose his application, because the former simply doesn't have the raw ability to begin with.
As for his being a big game player, thus far he's also been a big game penalty misser. Frankly, I don't think he's been involved in enough big games to categorically say whether he is or isn't.
comment by itsonlyagame (U6426)
posted 34 seconds ago
comment by Robb Mkhitaryan (U21234)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by itsonlyagame (U6426)
posted 2 minutes ago
I rate Griezmann too, but I don't overrate him.
He relies entirely on his goals. They're what have put him up there in many people's eyes as one of the top players last season, but while he's still a decent player without the goals, that's about it.
Neymar's goals might have dried up, but every single game he still does stuff other players simply can't. There's a huge, huge difference in quality between him and Griezmann.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not a 'huge huge' difference in quality.
I can accept that Neymar is a bit better but he's not superman. Last night for example he was shocking.
Griezmann is a big game player (generally speaking, nothing to do with Neymar) who can play anywhere across the front line. He was exceptional in Atleticos run to the final of the CL last season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what you'd like to think because he's the latest poster boy you think is United-bound, Robb, but yes it is a huge, huge difference quality-wise. Griezmann will never, ever reach Neymar's level as long as the latter doesn't lose his application, because the former simply doesn't have the raw ability to begin with.
As for his being a big game player, thus far he's also been a big game penalty misser. Frankly, I don't think he's been involved in enough big games to categorically say whether he is or isn't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Raw ability quite the judging point though. Neymar is a superb player but he has done nothing so far to suggest he's miles ahead of Griezmann.
comment by Robb Mkhitaryan (U21234)
posted 9 minutes ago
Raw ability quite the judging point though. Neymar is a superb player but he has done nothing so far to suggest he's miles ahead of Griezmann.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Robb, first up the opening comment was "quality-wise", which is immediately apparent to anyone after barely 15 minutes of watching the two in action.
Secondly, done nothing? There's a very, very good reason Neymar's at Barça and been coveted by every club in th world for years, while Griezmann's at Atleti and only over the past season been touted for bigger things.
Let's bear in mind that both are almost exactly the same age - Griezmann in fact is just slightly older.
So, here goes:
Griezmann -
Euro 2016 runner up
CL 15-16 runner up
2nd division champion
14 goals and 39 caps for France
Neymar -
5x league champion (3 in Brazil, 2 in Spain)
CL winner
CWC winner
Copa Libertadores (S.American CL)
Olympic champion
50 goals and 75 caps for Brazil
Take some friendly advice, you're better off conceding this one early, Robb.
i like how you made out that I said he's done 'nothing' in isolation. Way to kill a debate with fake news.
He's obviously done very well but my point was that he's done nothing to suggest he's miles ahead of Griezmann.
You show his trophies as a way to prove a point when that argument is pointless.
Olympic champion? Was Griezmann in the Olympics?
You bring up league titles. I'm fairly certain if you took Neymar out of Barca and put Griezmann in that side he'd have all the same trophies at Barca that Neymar does.
Let's look at goals scored for their clubs over the past 3 seasons
Neymar - 129 games , 80 goals
Griezmann - 139 games , 73 goals
I've said in this debate that I admit Neymar edges it but to suggest that Neymar is miles better is baloney. Especially if you base it on trophies won.
To clarify about 'trophies won' I mean that a trophies won debate when one plays for Barca and one doesn't is a silly debate
Again, you're ignoring the 'quality-wise' point to try to take to the discussion to a more favourable terrain - but even the most favourable terrain doesn't do much to aid your cause.
You say take Neymar our, put Griezmann in.
As said, there's a very good reason each one is where he is. Choose to ignore it if you like, but that isn't going change the reality.
Why do you think Barça broke the bank and a whole load of laws to land Neymar, when they could got Griezmann for a quarter or less?
You reject achievements as 'fake news' (cheap shot), and argue goal stats with one playing from wide and sharing goalscoring responsibilities with Suarez and Messi, and the other as the unquestionable go-to CF.
The funny thing is that my original argument was that, contrary to Neymar, you take out AG's goalscoring exploits and you're left with little else - and you've brought this discussion full circle with stats that prove that he's the inferior player even in that department.
I could equally say that scoring that many goals in such a defensive side like Atletico is as good an achievement as Neymar doing it in a free flowing side like Barca.
And in one of those seasons Griezmann was a left winger feeding the ball to Mandzukic.
You seem to insist that I'm saying Griezmann is as good as Neymat. I've not ever said that. But I do think the gap is way closer than you think.
As for why Barca broke the bank - I'm sure it was as much to do with getting the next hot thing out of South America. And he has done well at Barca. But not so much better that he's miles ahead of Griezmann.
And as for you saying 'there's a good reason for where each is', I'd wager tha Barca would love Griezmann in their side.
I could equally say that scoring that many goals in such a defensive side like Atletico is as good an achievement as Neymar doing it in a free flowing side like Barca.
---
You could, and I'd agree - but you'd still be ignoring the initial point about quality. Fair comment on Mandy, btw.
As for why Barca broke the bank - I'm sure it was as much to do with getting the next hot thing out of South America.
---
So if Griezmann had been at an even remotely similar level, they'd have ignored him? Don't kid yourself, Robb, having been groomed at a Spanish academy and having Liga experience, if Griezmann had anywhere near Neymar's talent he'd have been picked up by one of the big two long before Atleti went in for him.
And as for you saying 'there's a good reason for where each is', I'd wager tha Barca would love Griezmann in their side.
----
Ahead of Alcácer? I agree.
Plus my final piece de resistance
Balloon Door points 2016...
Neymar - (58 points) 5th place
Griezmann - (198 points) 3rd place
Fin
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 3 hours, 54 minutes ago
Griezmann is a tidy little player but I'm not sure what the fuss is all about
_______________
Third best player in the world?
Who is worth a fuss if he isn't?
comment by redmisty (U7556)
posted 40 minutes ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 3 hours, 54 minutes ago
Griezmann is a tidy little player but I'm not sure what the fuss is all about
_______________
Third best player in the world?
Who is worth a fuss if he isn't?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Third best player in the world based on what? Votes in a popularity contest?
Give me a break.
If I was offered any of these (attacking) players over him, I would take them
Hazard
Sanchez
Costa
Silva
Aguero
Off the top of my head. He is not as good as those 5 and all those 5 would fit at Utd in our current system without adversely impacting the development of Martial and Rashford.
Griezman seems surplus to requirements at United, IMO - especially for the fees quoted.
I think we should keep an eye on Ousmane Dembele, i think the kid could be really special.
I can't believe i agree with Robb here - only partly though. Neymar is not streets ahead of Griezman. But in nearly every facet of the game, the Brazilian is the better player and would improve any team in the world. You can't say the same for the Frenchman.
PS
The Balon D'or really contributes little to the debate as it is essentially popularity contest.
Besides, we can't keep stocking our team with French chokers
Neymar is not streets ahead of Griezman. But in nearly every facet of the game, the Brazilian is the better player and would improve any team in the world. You can't say the same for the Frenchman.
_____________
I agree with that but we all know that Neymar is not available and that we couldn't even sign him for £120m.
Thus, I am not sure why he is even relevant to the discussion.
I'd rather have Messi too. And George Best.
Surely it only makes sense to discuss players that we have a chance of signing?
''Surely it only makes sense to discuss players that we have a chance of signing?''
I agree and hence i gave my opinion on the possible signing of Griezman.
By comparing him to Neymar...
comment by redmisty (U7556)
posted 9 minutes ago
By comparing him to Neymar...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
By chiming in on the Neymar-Griezman thoughts.
I might be a nascent user of message boards but the conversation evolved. I didn't draw the initial comparison.
Our fans amuse me . Inclined to be bellicose.
Spoling for a fight Mr.Misty? You've got the wrong guy
Spoling for a fight Mr.Misty
_______________
Really? That's the sort of comment I would expect from Robb. What did I say that was in any way aggressive or offensive? Or do you just use words like bellicose to try to make yourself look clever?
comment by redmisty (U7556)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
I agree with that but we all know that Neymar is not available and that we couldn't even sign him for £120m.
Thus, I am not sure why he is even relevant to the discussion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I bet if you looked back you'd find it was Robb who first brought him up.
comment by itsonlyagame (U6426)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by redmisty (U7556)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
I agree with that but we all know that Neymar is not available and that we couldn't even sign him for £120m.
Thus, I am not sure why he is even relevant to the discussion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I bet if you looked back you'd find it was Robb who first brought him up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But not in competition with each other though
It was my erstwhile Spanish friend who has a tendency to go bowling who did that
I bet if you looked back you'd find it was Robb who first brought him up.
_____________
I filtered Robb ages ago. Thanks though.
comment by Robb Mkhitaryan (U21234)
posted 1 hour, 7 minutes ago
I bet if you looked back you'd find it was Robb who first brought him up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But not in competition with each other though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nitpicking.
comment by redmisty (U7556)
posted 2 hours, 48 minutes ago
I bet if you looked back you'd find it was Robb who first brought him up.
_____________
I filtered Robb ages ago. Thanks though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A tad harsh.
Nonetheless it explains things
Sign in if you want to comment
So Greizmann doesn't like rain
Page 2 of 2
posted on 15/2/17
comment by Robb Mkhitaryan (U21234)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by itsonlyagame (U6426)
posted 2 minutes ago
I rate Griezmann too, but I don't overrate him.
He relies entirely on his goals. They're what have put him up there in many people's eyes as one of the top players last season, but while he's still a decent player without the goals, that's about it.
Neymar's goals might have dried up, but every single game he still does stuff other players simply can't. There's a huge, huge difference in quality between him and Griezmann.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not a 'huge huge' difference in quality.
I can accept that Neymar is a bit better but he's not superman. Last night for example he was shocking.
Griezmann is a big game player (generally speaking, nothing to do with Neymar) who can play anywhere across the front line. He was exceptional in Atleticos run to the final of the CL last season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what you'd like to think because he's the latest poster boy you think is United-bound, Robb, but yes it is a huge, huge difference quality-wise. Griezmann will never, ever reach Neymar's level as long as the latter doesn't lose his application, because the former simply doesn't have the raw ability to begin with.
As for his being a big game player, thus far he's also been a big game penalty misser. Frankly, I don't think he's been involved in enough big games to categorically say whether he is or isn't.
posted on 15/2/17
comment by itsonlyagame (U6426)
posted 34 seconds ago
comment by Robb Mkhitaryan (U21234)
posted 15 minutes ago
comment by itsonlyagame (U6426)
posted 2 minutes ago
I rate Griezmann too, but I don't overrate him.
He relies entirely on his goals. They're what have put him up there in many people's eyes as one of the top players last season, but while he's still a decent player without the goals, that's about it.
Neymar's goals might have dried up, but every single game he still does stuff other players simply can't. There's a huge, huge difference in quality between him and Griezmann.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not a 'huge huge' difference in quality.
I can accept that Neymar is a bit better but he's not superman. Last night for example he was shocking.
Griezmann is a big game player (generally speaking, nothing to do with Neymar) who can play anywhere across the front line. He was exceptional in Atleticos run to the final of the CL last season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That's what you'd like to think because he's the latest poster boy you think is United-bound, Robb, but yes it is a huge, huge difference quality-wise. Griezmann will never, ever reach Neymar's level as long as the latter doesn't lose his application, because the former simply doesn't have the raw ability to begin with.
As for his being a big game player, thus far he's also been a big game penalty misser. Frankly, I don't think he's been involved in enough big games to categorically say whether he is or isn't.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Raw ability quite the judging point though. Neymar is a superb player but he has done nothing so far to suggest he's miles ahead of Griezmann.
posted on 15/2/17
comment by Robb Mkhitaryan (U21234)
posted 9 minutes ago
Raw ability quite the judging point though. Neymar is a superb player but he has done nothing so far to suggest he's miles ahead of Griezmann.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Robb, first up the opening comment was "quality-wise", which is immediately apparent to anyone after barely 15 minutes of watching the two in action.
Secondly, done nothing? There's a very, very good reason Neymar's at Barça and been coveted by every club in th world for years, while Griezmann's at Atleti and only over the past season been touted for bigger things.
Let's bear in mind that both are almost exactly the same age - Griezmann in fact is just slightly older.
So, here goes:
Griezmann -
Euro 2016 runner up
CL 15-16 runner up
2nd division champion
14 goals and 39 caps for France
Neymar -
5x league champion (3 in Brazil, 2 in Spain)
CL winner
CWC winner
Copa Libertadores (S.American CL)
Olympic champion
50 goals and 75 caps for Brazil
Take some friendly advice, you're better off conceding this one early, Robb.
posted on 15/2/17
i like how you made out that I said he's done 'nothing' in isolation. Way to kill a debate with fake news.
He's obviously done very well but my point was that he's done nothing to suggest he's miles ahead of Griezmann.
You show his trophies as a way to prove a point when that argument is pointless.
Olympic champion? Was Griezmann in the Olympics?
You bring up league titles. I'm fairly certain if you took Neymar out of Barca and put Griezmann in that side he'd have all the same trophies at Barca that Neymar does.
Let's look at goals scored for their clubs over the past 3 seasons
Neymar - 129 games , 80 goals
Griezmann - 139 games , 73 goals
I've said in this debate that I admit Neymar edges it but to suggest that Neymar is miles better is baloney. Especially if you base it on trophies won.
posted on 15/2/17
To clarify about 'trophies won' I mean that a trophies won debate when one plays for Barca and one doesn't is a silly debate
posted on 15/2/17
Again, you're ignoring the 'quality-wise' point to try to take to the discussion to a more favourable terrain - but even the most favourable terrain doesn't do much to aid your cause.
You say take Neymar our, put Griezmann in.
As said, there's a very good reason each one is where he is. Choose to ignore it if you like, but that isn't going change the reality.
Why do you think Barça broke the bank and a whole load of laws to land Neymar, when they could got Griezmann for a quarter or less?
You reject achievements as 'fake news' (cheap shot), and argue goal stats with one playing from wide and sharing goalscoring responsibilities with Suarez and Messi, and the other as the unquestionable go-to CF.
The funny thing is that my original argument was that, contrary to Neymar, you take out AG's goalscoring exploits and you're left with little else - and you've brought this discussion full circle with stats that prove that he's the inferior player even in that department.
posted on 15/2/17
I could equally say that scoring that many goals in such a defensive side like Atletico is as good an achievement as Neymar doing it in a free flowing side like Barca.
And in one of those seasons Griezmann was a left winger feeding the ball to Mandzukic.
You seem to insist that I'm saying Griezmann is as good as Neymat. I've not ever said that. But I do think the gap is way closer than you think.
As for why Barca broke the bank - I'm sure it was as much to do with getting the next hot thing out of South America. And he has done well at Barca. But not so much better that he's miles ahead of Griezmann.
And as for you saying 'there's a good reason for where each is', I'd wager tha Barca would love Griezmann in their side.
posted on 15/2/17
I could equally say that scoring that many goals in such a defensive side like Atletico is as good an achievement as Neymar doing it in a free flowing side like Barca.
---
You could, and I'd agree - but you'd still be ignoring the initial point about quality. Fair comment on Mandy, btw.
As for why Barca broke the bank - I'm sure it was as much to do with getting the next hot thing out of South America.
---
So if Griezmann had been at an even remotely similar level, they'd have ignored him? Don't kid yourself, Robb, having been groomed at a Spanish academy and having Liga experience, if Griezmann had anywhere near Neymar's talent he'd have been picked up by one of the big two long before Atleti went in for him.
And as for you saying 'there's a good reason for where each is', I'd wager tha Barca would love Griezmann in their side.
----
Ahead of Alcácer? I agree.
posted on 15/2/17
Plus my final piece de resistance
Balloon Door points 2016...
Neymar - (58 points) 5th place
Griezmann - (198 points) 3rd place
Fin
posted on 15/2/17
Strewth.
posted on 15/2/17
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 3 hours, 54 minutes ago
Griezmann is a tidy little player but I'm not sure what the fuss is all about
_______________
Third best player in the world?
Who is worth a fuss if he isn't?
posted on 15/2/17
comment by redmisty (U7556)
posted 40 minutes ago
comment by ManUtdDaredevil (U9612)
posted 3 hours, 54 minutes ago
Griezmann is a tidy little player but I'm not sure what the fuss is all about
_______________
Third best player in the world?
Who is worth a fuss if he isn't?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Third best player in the world based on what? Votes in a popularity contest?
Give me a break.
If I was offered any of these (attacking) players over him, I would take them
Hazard
Sanchez
Costa
Silva
Aguero
Off the top of my head. He is not as good as those 5 and all those 5 would fit at Utd in our current system without adversely impacting the development of Martial and Rashford.
posted on 15/2/17
Griezman seems surplus to requirements at United, IMO - especially for the fees quoted.
I think we should keep an eye on Ousmane Dembele, i think the kid could be really special.
I can't believe i agree with Robb here - only partly though. Neymar is not streets ahead of Griezman. But in nearly every facet of the game, the Brazilian is the better player and would improve any team in the world. You can't say the same for the Frenchman.
PS
The Balon D'or really contributes little to the debate as it is essentially popularity contest.
Besides, we can't keep stocking our team with French chokers
posted on 15/2/17
Neymar is not streets ahead of Griezman. But in nearly every facet of the game, the Brazilian is the better player and would improve any team in the world. You can't say the same for the Frenchman.
_____________
I agree with that but we all know that Neymar is not available and that we couldn't even sign him for £120m.
Thus, I am not sure why he is even relevant to the discussion.
I'd rather have Messi too. And George Best.
Surely it only makes sense to discuss players that we have a chance of signing?
posted on 15/2/17
''Surely it only makes sense to discuss players that we have a chance of signing?''
I agree and hence i gave my opinion on the possible signing of Griezman.
posted on 15/2/17
By comparing him to Neymar...
posted on 15/2/17
comment by redmisty (U7556)
posted 9 minutes ago
By comparing him to Neymar...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
By chiming in on the Neymar-Griezman thoughts.
I might be a nascent user of message boards but the conversation evolved. I didn't draw the initial comparison.
Our fans amuse me . Inclined to be bellicose.
Spoling for a fight Mr.Misty? You've got the wrong guy
posted on 15/2/17
Spoling for a fight Mr.Misty
_______________
Really? That's the sort of comment I would expect from Robb. What did I say that was in any way aggressive or offensive? Or do you just use words like bellicose to try to make yourself look clever?
posted on 15/2/17
comment by redmisty (U7556)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
I agree with that but we all know that Neymar is not available and that we couldn't even sign him for £120m.
Thus, I am not sure why he is even relevant to the discussion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I bet if you looked back you'd find it was Robb who first brought him up.
posted on 15/2/17
comment by itsonlyagame (U6426)
posted 9 minutes ago
comment by redmisty (U7556)
posted 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
I agree with that but we all know that Neymar is not available and that we couldn't even sign him for £120m.
Thus, I am not sure why he is even relevant to the discussion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I bet if you looked back you'd find it was Robb who first brought him up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But not in competition with each other though
It was my erstwhile Spanish friend who has a tendency to go bowling who did that
posted on 15/2/17
I bet if you looked back you'd find it was Robb who first brought him up.
_____________
I filtered Robb ages ago. Thanks though.
posted on 15/2/17
comment by Robb Mkhitaryan (U21234)
posted 1 hour, 7 minutes ago
I bet if you looked back you'd find it was Robb who first brought him up.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But not in competition with each other though
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nitpicking.
posted on 15/2/17
comment by redmisty (U7556)
posted 2 hours, 48 minutes ago
I bet if you looked back you'd find it was Robb who first brought him up.
_____________
I filtered Robb ages ago. Thanks though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A tad harsh.
Nonetheless it explains things
Page 2 of 2