Corbynharvester for me.

I wanted to but couldn't edit article

Can we really call the Conservative party more stable?

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Yes. The reasons why are obvious, so I won't patronise.

Stable?

2 constitutional referendums and a 2 General elections in the last 3 years.

comment by The_Dungeon_Master (U4830)
posted 4 minutes ago
Broaquin - Certainly the "alt-right" is out in force right now. I don't have a lot of experience of them but they do seem like a horrible lot, hunting in packs. They seem to have taken over the BBC comments sections as well these days.

As for the Conservatives, I'm an advocate of austerity and that's what I find they broadly represent. (I don't agree with everything, but that's not the point of a political party.) I know that won't be a popular decision, but as far as I see it's about re-balancing overspending that took place throughout the 2000's, i.e. it's not that things have been cut as such, it's more the realisation that we could never afford them in the first place. (I'm aware of the argument that austerity is counterintuitive as well, but I've never bought any of those arguments in practice.)

Frankly, I quite liked the previous coalition government. Conservative pragmatism with Lib Dem influence to keep them honest about hit the sweet spot for me.
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Here is where I would massively disagree with you. The truth is overspending is not what caused the deficit and the high level of debt, the credit crunch caused both these issues.

Labour under Brown and Blair, had a average borrowing of 1.3% before the 2008 crash. So I disagree they over spent more than any other government in power. The IMF in fact has stated that UK's deficit was created by the credit crunch, and not the government's spending prior to it. Since most governments obtain a deficit, I think we were in many ways living within our means.

The government deficit has decreased, but at the expense of the UK's services and welfare.

Personally, I'm not against Austerity, but only against the way the UK has implemented it, along with other EU countries. Many economists would argue it can be very counter productive in recovering the economy, and the best situation to push these policies through is when the economy is strong.

There have been nations which invested in the economy and services, and benefited from economic growth later, so they can manage their debt.

Finland built their economy with from their 1988 economic crash, and saw their deficit in the long term, and debt decrease. Currently their debt to GDP is at 60%, much lower than most other nations, despite having a great amount of government expenditure. In comparison Reagan, champion of libertarianism and Laissez-faire economics, managed to double the debt to $2.1 trillion, and create enormous deficit.

Even this government has borrowed more money than every other Labour government combined, despite trying to implement austerity.

How can Corbyn lead an effective government if he has so little support within his own party that he can't even guarantee his own MPs will adhere to his Whip?

Basically, no promise he makes can be given any serious credibility because he doesn't even have the mandate from his own party.

I will never vote labour again after Blair

The Conservatives are far from perfect, but at least you can guarantee that if May announces a policy it's going to get voted through. Corbyn doesn't offer that confidence.

comment by Hector (U3606)
posted 57 seconds ago
Stable?

2 constitutional referendums and a 2 General elections in the last 3 years.


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Exactly

Whoever gets into power will be in a place of instability. Much of the reasoning behind the election, is that in 2020 the Conservative party will be in a very delicate position.

comment by The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
posted 1 minute ago
The Conservatives are far from perfect, but at least you can guarantee that if May announces a policy it's going to get voted through. Corbyn doesn't offer that confidence.
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Whats important is whether people would wan't these policies.

Putin can push through whatever he likes, yet he doesn't exactly seem appealing to me as a leader.

No, what's important is that people have confidence that the man espousing the policies is credible enough to implement them.

I don't have enough faith in Corbyn that he can deliver on what he says.

comment by LQ (U6305)
posted 6 minutes ago
I will never vote labour again after Blair
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Corbyn is the antithesis of Blair. I understand your hate for Tony, but given is everything he wasn't. Vote Labour.

comment by Arshavin's Legacy (U10307)
posted 0 seconds ago
comment by LQ (U6305)
posted 6 minutes ago
I will never vote labour again after Blair
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Corbyn is the antithesis of Blair. I understand your hate for Tony, but given is everything he wasn't. Vote Labour.
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given? I meant to say Corbyn obviously.

comment by Arshavin's Legacy (U10307)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Arshavin's Legacy (U10307)
posted 0 seconds ago
comment by LQ (U6305)
posted 6 minutes ago
I will never vote labour again after Blair
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Corbyn is the antithesis of Blair. I understand your hate for Tony, but given is everything he wasn't. Vote Labour.
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given? I meant to say Corbyn obviously.
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You're right there. Blair was a fantastic and credible politician and prime minister.

comment by The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
posted 9 minutes ago
How can Corbyn lead an effective government if he has so little support within his own party that he can't even guarantee his own MPs will adhere to his Whip?

Basically, no promise he makes can be given any serious credibility because he doesn't even have the mandate from his own party.
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The Labour Party are not disunited on policy. They were disunited on strategy. But the general election is here now so that goes out the window and they have come together.

Do your research - you'll see that the policies have pretty much unanimous support from the MPs.

Then there's the small matter of their policies actually being good for the country. Not leading us over a cliff-edge with an extreme Brexit deal, stagnating wages, and running our public services into the ground.

The Labour Party are not disunited on policy.

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That's where you're wrong, and why Labour MPs are flocking to contradict the answers Corbyn gave in his interview yesterday.

Better do your own research before trying to play that game

The man can't keep his house in order. On the events of the past 24 hours alone, he has no credibility.

comment by The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
posted 6 minutes ago
No, what's important is that people have confidence that the man espousing the policies is credible enough to implement them.

I don't have enough faith in Corbyn that he can deliver on what he says.
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No, firstly policies have to be at least credible.

The Conservatives plan to turn the UK's economy into a tax haven, outside of the EU, which is definitely both more disastrous and less plausible than any of the other parties plans.

The UK is not Singapore or the US, and I fail to see why we would want it to be considering both countries have enormous debt, and other social issues within them.

No, firstly policies have to be at least credible.

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His policies are credible (for the most part). He isn't not.

I'd vote for a united Labour Party. Unfortunately I cannot vote for this one.

It's a shame because I like Corbyn as a man. He's not a Prime Minister though. At least not until he has a proper mandate from his party.

comment by The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
posted 2 minutes ago
The man can't keep his house in order. On the events of the past 24 hours alone, he has no credibility.
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And yet Theresa May is more credible? Despite doing very poorly at her job, and badly managing immigration for her time in charge.

If you cannot expect the home secretary to achieve the parties policies, what hope does she have as PM?

Broaquin - I'm not against austerity being imposed in a "better" way, and I agree that there's a lot a country like ours can learn from Finland. However, I do think you have to start from a position of relative strength in order to do that, and - while it's easy to say with hindsight - that was Labour's big failing in the 2000s. Plus, I suspect what you're talking about with regard to Finland increasing their deficit is more to do with things like infrastructure than services - things that can pay off in the long term, rather than more charitable and internal services that I find have been overdone and over-demanded in this country. (Unfortunately I find the NHS to be the main such service, and I'm not sure what to do about that as I don't want privatisation either. But that's another argument.)

As for the deficit, I agree to an extent, but we still got to the point where the credit crunch hit us hard in this country to create the deficit. But the whole concept of the credit crunch isn't just a UK problem - the whole of Europe was accepting this credit and, even though the figures weren't on the country's books at the time, borrowing too far into the future, aided by banks that couldn't turn back for fear of rocking the boat and governments who wouldn't regulate. And Labour put us in an even worse position to get hit by that than most of Europe with their own economic policies. I also take the argument I've seen in places where the Conservatives would have backed similar policies, However, the fact remains that it was a big error on Labour's watch.

All that said, I still think the last Labour government was better economically than Corbyn would be. In any policy announcement I see from him, if he says how he would pay for it at all, it is never even nearly enough and way too simplistic. In a way I like his vision because most of what he says is entirely desirable if money were no object. But it is.

Incidentally, I'm not a great fan of May, although not a great detractor either. I marginally preferred Cameron as a statesman, although of course the insufferable smugness did put a barrier between him and his plebians.

However, I don't think she was a decent enough home secretary. I remember being particularly impressed with how she handled the Gary McKinnon situation and she was a safe pair of hands while not inspirational.

comment by The Lambeau Leap (U21050)
posted 1 minute ago
No, firstly policies have to be at least credible.

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His policies are credible (for the most part). He isn't not.

I'd vote for a united Labour Party. Unfortunately I cannot vote for this one.

It's a shame because I like Corbyn as a man. He's not a Prime Minister though. At least not until he has a proper mandate from his party.
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I can understand why you would feel that, because I have similar doubts. However, I find those doubts about Theresa May. You are talking about a party which has divided on Europe, made U-turns on national insurance increases, and a PM who did terribly as home secretary.

I would recommend you vote Lib Dems, if you feel that way about Labour.

*I meant I don't think she was a bad home secretary, or a decent enough one. Unfortunate slip of the keyboard there.

And yet Theresa May is more credible?

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Of course she is. She has the backing of her party and is therefore in a better position to ensure an effective policy making government.

That's not even in question, or shouldn't be if you can see past partisan bias.

I'm not asking anyone to like her policies. There are some I dislike.

A Tory government is the only option for effective government at the moment. That is the sad but unavoidable truth of the matter.

There's no point arguing for Corbyn like he has a hope of winning the election with enough of a majority to form a government.

Likelihood is that Labour lose seats in close majority brexit constituencies.

No point letting partisan bias get in the way of the facts.

I'm resigned to a Tory government.