Look at Spurs. It took them one season to change a mindset that had stained them for 2-3 decades. It can be done.
I think reasonable Arsenal fans (of which there are many considering how long it has taken the tide to really turn on Arsene Wenger) fans will be more than willing to give it a season or two, providing we see the seeds or something new along the way when that transition phase is happening (Klopp has had his results against the big sides, Poch had victory over us in his first WHL north London Derby, Mourinho has had the league cup, a long unbeaten run and the Europa league going back further, Fergie had the FA cup win and George Graham had the league cup win over Liverpool), little things like that will inform and encourage fans that the old mentality and frailties are being ebbed away and ironed out, even if the season as a whole, doesn't end up going the way we'd like it to. I expect the next man to get time, and get respect. The reason it's so toxic now is that the current incumbent has just simply overstayed his welcome.
It does all depend on getting the right man though, something I don't think any Arsenal fan alive is confident our board will get right, however. We can but hope.
Arsenal seem to have the same weaknesses, regardless of who is in the squad.
=======
And the one constant is...
For the love of god, it only took a couple of seasons for pochettino to change spurs mentality.
You can see with Spurs and Arsenal the difference a change of manager can make. Both have similar level of quality players, but one is far better coached, and drilled with a more modern approach. Spurs haven't needed to spend a shed load either. It's down to the manager coaching the players just right
Wenger is out of date. We need a proper coach. Not someone who is also running the whole club
Well Spurs haven't won anything since 2008, and have constantly changed the manager.
They have done well, and the mentality has improved. However, a lot of their stars are lacking experience, which will not help them win a major trophy.
comment by Herbie (U7136)
posted 5 minutes ago
Look at Spurs. It took them one season to change a mindset that had stained them for 2-3 decades. It can be done.
I think reasonable Arsenal fans (of which there are many considering how long it has taken the tide to really turn on Arsene Wenger) fans will be more than willing to give it a season or two, providing we see the seeds or something new along the way when that transition phase is happening (Klopp has had his results against the big sides, Poch had victory over us in his first WHL north London Derby, Mourinho has had the league cup, a long unbeaten run and the Europa league going back further, Fergie had the FA cup win and George Graham had the league cup win over Liverpool), little things like that will inform and encourage fans that the old mentality and frailties are being ebbed away and ironed out, even if the season as a whole, doesn't end up going the way we'd like it to. I expect the next man to get time, and get respect. The reason it's so toxic now is that the current incumbent has just simply overstayed his welcome.
It does all depend on getting the right man though, something I don't think any Arsenal fan alive is confident our board will get right, however. We can but hope.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like you said I think it depends on the manager. Do I think Pep would be challenging for major trophies with this current Arsenal team? No. A Manager like Simeone could bring a winners mentality though.
comment by Broaquin (U16342)
posted 1 minute ago
Well Spurs haven't won anything since 2008, and have constantly changed the manager.
They have done well, and the mentality has improved. However, a lot of their stars are lacking experience, which will not help them win a major trophy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What about United's Class of 93? They had little experience and went on to achieve a lot of success.
The only reason we're not going to win the league (and FA Cup for that matter) is because there just happens to be a very strong Chelsea team this year.
If someone like Simeone walked into the Arsenal manager job, they'd be a different animal within a season.
comment by Spurtle2 (U1608)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Broaquin (U16342)
posted 1 minute ago
Well Spurs haven't won anything since 2008, and have constantly changed the manager.
They have done well, and the mentality has improved. However, a lot of their stars are lacking experience, which will not help them win a major trophy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What about United's Class of 93? They had little experience and went on to achieve a lot of success.
The only reason we're not going to win the league (and FA Cup for that matter) is because there just happens to be a very strong Chelsea team this year.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The class of 93 was a freak occurrence. There is a chance Tottenham could replicate, but I expect it will take some more time.
comment by Randomer (U5245)
posted 3 minutes ago
If someone like Simeone walked into the Arsenal manager job, they'd be a different animal within a season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Even Allardyce or Pulis would instantly change things for the better.
If Simeone came to Arsenal, what would be realistic targets for his first year?
comment by Spurtle2 (U1608)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Broaquin (U16342)
posted 1 minute ago
Well Spurs haven't won anything since 2008, and have constantly changed the manager.
They have done well, and the mentality has improved. However, a lot of their stars are lacking experience, which will not help them win a major trophy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What about United's Class of 93? They had little experience and went on to achieve a lot of success.
The only reason we're not going to win the league (and FA Cup for that matter) is because there just happens to be a very strong Chelsea team this year.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whilst I hear what you're saying that's not really true, Spurtle. Leading up to that first Utd title, they'd won trophies in consecutive season starting from 1990; 1990 FA cup, 1991 CWC (over a great Barcelona team), 1992 League Cup as well as finishing 2nd in the year before their first title win in a race they very much bottled due, in most part, to fixture pile up rather than being any worse than the Leeds side that won the title that year. They had a lot of experience, good and bad, to draw from, something your Spurs side are also seemingly doing very good job of (learning from the past to inform the present).
comment by Randomer (U5245)
posted 4 minutes ago
If someone like Simeone walked into the Arsenal manager job, they'd be a different animal within a season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As if that would happen
comment by Broaquin (U16342)
posted 4 minutes ago
If Simeone came to Arsenal, what would be realistic targets for his first year?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Top 4? Or a League Cup/FA Cup? I know they won a couple of FA Cups recently and wanted to push on from it but with a new manager and new outlook it would be a good start
comment by ♤WengersNearlyMen♤ (U5041)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Randomer (U5245)
posted 4 minutes ago
If someone like Simeone walked into the Arsenal manager job, they'd be a different animal within a season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As if that would happen
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If he leaves Atletico there won't be many bigger jobs available if any. Utd, City, Liverpool and Spurs have managers set for the next couple of seasons most likely. Only leaves Arsenal and maybe Barca? Perhaps Juve if Allegri leaves but then you could go for Allegri instead
comment by Herbie (U7136)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle2 (U1608)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Broaquin (U16342)
posted 1 minute ago
Well Spurs haven't won anything since 2008, and have constantly changed the manager.
They have done well, and the mentality has improved. However, a lot of their stars are lacking experience, which will not help them win a major trophy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What about United's Class of 93? They had little experience and went on to achieve a lot of success.
The only reason we're not going to win the league (and FA Cup for that matter) is because there just happens to be a very strong Chelsea team this year.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whilst I hear what you're saying that's not really true, Spurtle. Leading up to that first Utd title, they'd won trophies in consecutive season starting from 1990; 1990 FA cup, 1991 CWC (over a great Barcelona team), 1992 League Cup as well as finishing 2nd in the year before their first title win in a race they very much bottled due, in most part, to fixture pile up rather than being any worse than the Leeds side that won the title that year. They had a lot of experience, good and bad, to draw from, something your Spurs side are also seemingly doing very good job of (learning from the past to inform the present).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nevertheless they had to start from somewhere. It's a bit of a moot point because all silverware winners will have come from a position of being inexperienced non-silverware winners at one point. It's like Leicester last year, only that was more out of the blue.
comment by Broaquin (U16342)
posted 7 minutes ago
If Simeone came to Arsenal, what would be realistic targets for his first year?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Strong performances in the big games.
Evidence of the squad moving forward.
Would expect top 4, and in touch with the leaders throughout the season.
Give Simeone what he wants and a £200m transfer chest. He would make us a competitive side across all competitions. Wenger is killing our club.Sell all the deadwood. Should bring in £100m.
comment by Spurtle2 (U1608)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by Broaquin (U16342)
posted 1 minute ago
Well Spurs haven't won anything since 2008, and have constantly changed the manager.
They have done well, and the mentality has improved. However, a lot of their stars are lacking experience, which will not help them win a major trophy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What about United's Class of 93? They had little experience and went on to achieve a lot of success.
The only reason we're not going to win the league (and FA Cup for that matter) is because there just happens to be a very strong Chelsea team this year.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What happened last season then. Remember same players were invalved in the title race. Leicester finished 10 points ahead of 2nd place Arsenal
Comfortable title for them.
Agree Allegri or Simeone would make Arsenal a force again.
Would prefer Allegri but he just signed a new contract.so not going anywhere.
Arsene has already signed, trust me. 2 more years.
A great many Arsenal mates are texting me saying that even in our most successful year we still don't win silverware. And they have collectively forgotten we are the youngest squad in the EPL and are likening us to a one season wonder aka Leicester. Even though we are into our second top four finish in 2 years. Small but significant first steps. Building through youth not huge transfers and salaries. Poor losers, very poor. Did everyone see Wenger storming off when asked about Spurs apparent ascendancy? Poorest loser of all. Please Chelsea, please spank them senseless in the FA cup final. Please.
If they get paid the same as Wenger and his level of control at the club we could get nearly any manager in the world.
I still say we need to replace Santi with a top midfield player who can organise the team (I think by the time he's properly recovered from such a long injury lay off his career will be over). An enforcer who can pass a bit and be captain would fit the bill. Or a partner who can get the best out of Coq like Santi did. Add a world class CF and we're ready to challenge.
i really don't think he is going. From what I have seen and heard, he'll be here at least until 2019.
The absolute biggest problem Arsenal have is that they have no leaders on the pitch. They are a sunny day team, who play nice football when everything's going well. But you don't have even one quality defensive player and you just can't go into 38 premier league games hoping to win on mere possession and the quality of some of your forward players.
The problem is that the players you need become more each year - to the point where now two top class centre backs, a top class holding player and a top class striker are Arsenal's absolute minimum requirements. Can't see them shelling out for so many top quality players if I am being honest.
Sign in if you want to comment
Change of manager.
Page 1 of 2
posted on 30/4/17
Look at Spurs. It took them one season to change a mindset that had stained them for 2-3 decades. It can be done.
I think reasonable Arsenal fans (of which there are many considering how long it has taken the tide to really turn on Arsene Wenger) fans will be more than willing to give it a season or two, providing we see the seeds or something new along the way when that transition phase is happening (Klopp has had his results against the big sides, Poch had victory over us in his first WHL north London Derby, Mourinho has had the league cup, a long unbeaten run and the Europa league going back further, Fergie had the FA cup win and George Graham had the league cup win over Liverpool), little things like that will inform and encourage fans that the old mentality and frailties are being ebbed away and ironed out, even if the season as a whole, doesn't end up going the way we'd like it to. I expect the next man to get time, and get respect. The reason it's so toxic now is that the current incumbent has just simply overstayed his welcome.
It does all depend on getting the right man though, something I don't think any Arsenal fan alive is confident our board will get right, however. We can but hope.
posted on 30/4/17
Arsenal seem to have the same weaknesses, regardless of who is in the squad.
=======
And the one constant is...
posted on 30/4/17
For the love of god, it only took a couple of seasons for pochettino to change spurs mentality.
posted on 30/4/17
You can see with Spurs and Arsenal the difference a change of manager can make. Both have similar level of quality players, but one is far better coached, and drilled with a more modern approach. Spurs haven't needed to spend a shed load either. It's down to the manager coaching the players just right
Wenger is out of date. We need a proper coach. Not someone who is also running the whole club
posted on 30/4/17
Well Spurs haven't won anything since 2008, and have constantly changed the manager.
They have done well, and the mentality has improved. However, a lot of their stars are lacking experience, which will not help them win a major trophy.
posted on 30/4/17
comment by Herbie (U7136)
posted 5 minutes ago
Look at Spurs. It took them one season to change a mindset that had stained them for 2-3 decades. It can be done.
I think reasonable Arsenal fans (of which there are many considering how long it has taken the tide to really turn on Arsene Wenger) fans will be more than willing to give it a season or two, providing we see the seeds or something new along the way when that transition phase is happening (Klopp has had his results against the big sides, Poch had victory over us in his first WHL north London Derby, Mourinho has had the league cup, a long unbeaten run and the Europa league going back further, Fergie had the FA cup win and George Graham had the league cup win over Liverpool), little things like that will inform and encourage fans that the old mentality and frailties are being ebbed away and ironed out, even if the season as a whole, doesn't end up going the way we'd like it to. I expect the next man to get time, and get respect. The reason it's so toxic now is that the current incumbent has just simply overstayed his welcome.
It does all depend on getting the right man though, something I don't think any Arsenal fan alive is confident our board will get right, however. We can but hope.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like you said I think it depends on the manager. Do I think Pep would be challenging for major trophies with this current Arsenal team? No. A Manager like Simeone could bring a winners mentality though.
posted on 30/4/17
comment by Broaquin (U16342)
posted 1 minute ago
Well Spurs haven't won anything since 2008, and have constantly changed the manager.
They have done well, and the mentality has improved. However, a lot of their stars are lacking experience, which will not help them win a major trophy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What about United's Class of 93? They had little experience and went on to achieve a lot of success.
The only reason we're not going to win the league (and FA Cup for that matter) is because there just happens to be a very strong Chelsea team this year.
posted on 30/4/17
If someone like Simeone walked into the Arsenal manager job, they'd be a different animal within a season.
posted on 30/4/17
comment by Spurtle2 (U1608)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Broaquin (U16342)
posted 1 minute ago
Well Spurs haven't won anything since 2008, and have constantly changed the manager.
They have done well, and the mentality has improved. However, a lot of their stars are lacking experience, which will not help them win a major trophy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What about United's Class of 93? They had little experience and went on to achieve a lot of success.
The only reason we're not going to win the league (and FA Cup for that matter) is because there just happens to be a very strong Chelsea team this year.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The class of 93 was a freak occurrence. There is a chance Tottenham could replicate, but I expect it will take some more time.
posted on 30/4/17
comment by Randomer (U5245)
posted 3 minutes ago
If someone like Simeone walked into the Arsenal manager job, they'd be a different animal within a season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Even Allardyce or Pulis would instantly change things for the better.
posted on 30/4/17
If Simeone came to Arsenal, what would be realistic targets for his first year?
posted on 30/4/17
comment by Spurtle2 (U1608)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Broaquin (U16342)
posted 1 minute ago
Well Spurs haven't won anything since 2008, and have constantly changed the manager.
They have done well, and the mentality has improved. However, a lot of their stars are lacking experience, which will not help them win a major trophy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What about United's Class of 93? They had little experience and went on to achieve a lot of success.
The only reason we're not going to win the league (and FA Cup for that matter) is because there just happens to be a very strong Chelsea team this year.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whilst I hear what you're saying that's not really true, Spurtle. Leading up to that first Utd title, they'd won trophies in consecutive season starting from 1990; 1990 FA cup, 1991 CWC (over a great Barcelona team), 1992 League Cup as well as finishing 2nd in the year before their first title win in a race they very much bottled due, in most part, to fixture pile up rather than being any worse than the Leeds side that won the title that year. They had a lot of experience, good and bad, to draw from, something your Spurs side are also seemingly doing very good job of (learning from the past to inform the present).
posted on 30/4/17
comment by Randomer (U5245)
posted 4 minutes ago
If someone like Simeone walked into the Arsenal manager job, they'd be a different animal within a season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As if that would happen
posted on 30/4/17
comment by Broaquin (U16342)
posted 4 minutes ago
If Simeone came to Arsenal, what would be realistic targets for his first year?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Top 4? Or a League Cup/FA Cup? I know they won a couple of FA Cups recently and wanted to push on from it but with a new manager and new outlook it would be a good start
posted on 30/4/17
comment by ♤WengersNearlyMen♤ (U5041)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by Randomer (U5245)
posted 4 minutes ago
If someone like Simeone walked into the Arsenal manager job, they'd be a different animal within a season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
As if that would happen
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If he leaves Atletico there won't be many bigger jobs available if any. Utd, City, Liverpool and Spurs have managers set for the next couple of seasons most likely. Only leaves Arsenal and maybe Barca? Perhaps Juve if Allegri leaves but then you could go for Allegri instead
posted on 30/4/17
comment by Herbie (U7136)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Spurtle2 (U1608)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Broaquin (U16342)
posted 1 minute ago
Well Spurs haven't won anything since 2008, and have constantly changed the manager.
They have done well, and the mentality has improved. However, a lot of their stars are lacking experience, which will not help them win a major trophy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What about United's Class of 93? They had little experience and went on to achieve a lot of success.
The only reason we're not going to win the league (and FA Cup for that matter) is because there just happens to be a very strong Chelsea team this year.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Whilst I hear what you're saying that's not really true, Spurtle. Leading up to that first Utd title, they'd won trophies in consecutive season starting from 1990; 1990 FA cup, 1991 CWC (over a great Barcelona team), 1992 League Cup as well as finishing 2nd in the year before their first title win in a race they very much bottled due, in most part, to fixture pile up rather than being any worse than the Leeds side that won the title that year. They had a lot of experience, good and bad, to draw from, something your Spurs side are also seemingly doing very good job of (learning from the past to inform the present).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nevertheless they had to start from somewhere. It's a bit of a moot point because all silverware winners will have come from a position of being inexperienced non-silverware winners at one point. It's like Leicester last year, only that was more out of the blue.
posted on 30/4/17
comment by Broaquin (U16342)
posted 7 minutes ago
If Simeone came to Arsenal, what would be realistic targets for his first year?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Strong performances in the big games.
Evidence of the squad moving forward.
Would expect top 4, and in touch with the leaders throughout the season.
posted on 30/4/17
Give Simeone what he wants and a £200m transfer chest. He would make us a competitive side across all competitions. Wenger is killing our club.Sell all the deadwood. Should bring in £100m.
posted on 30/4/17
comment by Spurtle2 (U1608)
posted 19 minutes ago
comment by Broaquin (U16342)
posted 1 minute ago
Well Spurs haven't won anything since 2008, and have constantly changed the manager.
They have done well, and the mentality has improved. However, a lot of their stars are lacking experience, which will not help them win a major trophy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What about United's Class of 93? They had little experience and went on to achieve a lot of success.
The only reason we're not going to win the league (and FA Cup for that matter) is because there just happens to be a very strong Chelsea team this year.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What happened last season then. Remember same players were invalved in the title race. Leicester finished 10 points ahead of 2nd place Arsenal
Comfortable title for them.
posted on 30/4/17
Agree Allegri or Simeone would make Arsenal a force again.
posted on 30/4/17
Would prefer Allegri but he just signed a new contract.so not going anywhere.
posted on 30/4/17
Arsene has already signed, trust me. 2 more years.
A great many Arsenal mates are texting me saying that even in our most successful year we still don't win silverware. And they have collectively forgotten we are the youngest squad in the EPL and are likening us to a one season wonder aka Leicester. Even though we are into our second top four finish in 2 years. Small but significant first steps. Building through youth not huge transfers and salaries. Poor losers, very poor. Did everyone see Wenger storming off when asked about Spurs apparent ascendancy? Poorest loser of all. Please Chelsea, please spank them senseless in the FA cup final. Please.
posted on 30/4/17
If they get paid the same as Wenger and his level of control at the club we could get nearly any manager in the world.
I still say we need to replace Santi with a top midfield player who can organise the team (I think by the time he's properly recovered from such a long injury lay off his career will be over). An enforcer who can pass a bit and be captain would fit the bill. Or a partner who can get the best out of Coq like Santi did. Add a world class CF and we're ready to challenge.
posted on 30/4/17
i really don't think he is going. From what I have seen and heard, he'll be here at least until 2019.
posted on 30/4/17
The absolute biggest problem Arsenal have is that they have no leaders on the pitch. They are a sunny day team, who play nice football when everything's going well. But you don't have even one quality defensive player and you just can't go into 38 premier league games hoping to win on mere possession and the quality of some of your forward players.
The problem is that the players you need become more each year - to the point where now two top class centre backs, a top class holding player and a top class striker are Arsenal's absolute minimum requirements. Can't see them shelling out for so many top quality players if I am being honest.
Page 1 of 2