comment by Zlatan The King Ibrahimovic (U10026)
posted 2 hours, 57 minutes ago
The Robbfather is grate.
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Illiterate, knuckle dragging moron. This is what I'm dealing with. A complete idiot
comment by renoog (U4449)
posted 3 hours, 9 minutes ago
Godfather
It's simple logic for you, but then that's because you're incapable of looking at things in context and choose to cling onto snippets of info in isolation. For most people who actually follow Arsenal it's clear that Arsenal fell well short last season because they a) couldn't defend and b) couldn't compete against the top clubs, especially away from home.
https://twitter.com/search?vertical=default&q=arsenal%20results%20receipt&src=typd
More firepower doesn't solve that. Sorting out the midfield and defence does. Those areas are weaker this season. Although maybe if you subscribe to the Wenger/Keegan school of insanity then it's possible to out-score your way to a title (hint: it isn't).
Yes, we're three games into the season. But we're 20 years into Wenger. This crap has been going on for ages and with increasing regularity since 2012. The same failings are present which have been present in the past. Arsene's management doesn't change so results don't change either. Only a fool would ignore the historical trends and choose to cling onto 'but we're only 3 games in'. You do it without fail every season and you've been wrong every time. Yet you somehow have this incredible air of sanctimony about you in calling others fickle and brain-washed, when you're the ultimate short-termist yourself, conveniently losing any sense of perspective as soon as Arsenal hit a run of good form.
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We have the players in all positions to win the league. It's just a case of how the players perform and if they perform to their potential.
Here's a question for you to help you see what I'm talking about because you are blinkered: do you think united are capable of winning the league this year? I bet you do. This despite them finishing 6th, 6 points behind Wengers worst ever finish in 28 years. Matic and Lukaku are their only significant signings and it's extremely debatable whether they have improved on those two positions from last year. Zlatan was a genuinely world class player and Hererra stats were as good as Kante last season. Do you pick apart their summer for not strengthening their weakness? (not enough goals in the team apart from their striker) Or do you realise that players who underperformed last year like martial, rashford, miki etc might actually play better this year?
Who's been wrong more, me or you? Because on plenty of occasions you have told me that United, city spurs etc would do better than us after having big spending summers yet more times than not in recent years they have finished beneath us or won less trophies than us . Not a very fair bet if you're just basing my success on whether we win the title or not, seeing as one team takes the trophy. I'd say the odds were heavily in your favour if that's your barometer.
comment by I'm a WOKO - thats Wenger out, Kronke out (U16927)
posted 3 hours, 31 minutes ago
Changes in the first team squad
IN: Lacazette, Kolasinac
Return from loan: Wilshere, Chambers, Akpom, Debuchy
OUT: Ox, Perez, Gabby, Gibbs, Martinez.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So you would keep the outs here if it meant sacrificing the ins? come on lad don't be ridiculous. Just admit we are in a better place this year. None of out outs were starters or even second choice those two ins will be first teamers when settled.
Godfather is acting like we've improved yet the "genius" Wenger drops his 2 new signings for an important game at Anfield for no reason. And this guy thinks Wenger can win us the league again? Deluded.
We have the players in all positions to win the league. It's just a case of how the players perform and if they perform to their potential.
Here's a question for you to help you see what I'm talking about because you are blinkered: do you think united are capable of winning the league this year? I bet you do. This despite them finishing 6th, 6 points behind Wengers worst ever finish in 28 years. Matic and Lukaku are their only significant signings and it's extremely debatable whether they have improved on those two positions from last year. Zlatan was a genuinely world class player and Hererra stats were as good as Kante last season. Do you pick apart their summer for not strengthening their weakness? (not enough goals in the team apart from their striker) Or do you realise that players who underperformed last year like martial, rashford, miki etc might actually play better this year?
Who's been wrong more, me or you? Because on plenty of occasions you have told me that United, city spurs etc would do better than us after having big spending summers yet more times than not in recent years they have finished beneath us or won less trophies than us . Not a very fair bet if you're just basing my success on whether we win the title or not, seeing as one team takes the trophy. I'd say the odds were heavily in your favour if that's your barometer.
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It won't happen though. Wenger hasn't managed to hit 80 points in the league in a decade. It doesn't matter what players he has, his style of play and tactics will always be a limiting factor. Right now Arsenal are very top heavy with lots of pace and goals in attack, a supreme creator who thrives on space on the counter, a slow deep passer who is more comfortable sitting rather than running around - a sensible manager may perhaps set up his team to win the ball deep in midfield and release the attacking players early. But that is not Wenger. So the 'potential' in the squad will continue to go un-realised, as it has done for years. What you're engaging in is wishful thinking.
Yes, Utd are capable of winning the league this year. One of the key reasons for this is Mourinho. I wouldn't have had them as favourites because I think they're still a bit ponderous in possession and we may see a return of a few bore draws at some point. But undoubtedly they're stronger because Mourinho identified that having a slow striker impeded their ability to play on the counter. Lukaku rectifies that and in turn this brings out the best in other counter-attacking players like Mkhitaryan, Rashford and importantly Pogba. You've already seen in the first few games where they've scored 10 and conceded 0, and are now top of the league. How this bears any similarity to Arsenal - who have defensive and midfield problems and did nothing to fix them in the transfer window, and have now lost 2 games and conceded 8 goals - is beyond me. Utterly bizarre comparison which only goes to show how Wenger is incapable of building a title-winning squad, unlike certain other managers.
I've never been in the business of predicting where clubs finish, you must have confused me with someone else. The only club I tend to pass judgement on these days is Arsenal because, and this may come as a surprise to you, it is INCREDIBLY easy to predict how Arsenal's season will pan out because you just have to look at the past to see how the same methods and the same weaknesses produce the same results. So I'm comfortably predicting a 72-76 point finish, and 4th/5th place finish. Zero title challenge.
Anyway, I admire your boundless optimism Godfather
Reminds me of myself on the old 606, when I used to post those first XI/second XI comparisons to show that Arsenal had the best squad in the league with promising youngsters like Traore, Denilson, Walcott, Senderos, Diaby, Bendtner etc. to call upon as backup.
comment by renoog (U4449)
posted 3 hours, 23 minutes ago
We have the players in all positions to win the league. It's just a case of how the players perform and if they perform to their potential.
Here's a question for you to help you see what I'm talking about because you are blinkered: do you think united are capable of winning the league this year? I bet you do. This despite them finishing 6th, 6 points behind Wengers worst ever finish in 28 years. Matic and Lukaku are their only significant signings and it's extremely debatable whether they have improved on those two positions from last year. Zlatan was a genuinely world class player and Hererra stats were as good as Kante last season. Do you pick apart their summer for not strengthening their weakness? (not enough goals in the team apart from their striker) Or do you realise that players who underperformed last year like martial, rashford, miki etc might actually play better this year?
Who's been wrong more, me or you? Because on plenty of occasions you have told me that United, city spurs etc would do better than us after having big spending summers yet more times than not in recent years they have finished beneath us or won less trophies than us . Not a very fair bet if you're just basing my success on whether we win the title or not, seeing as one team takes the trophy. I'd say the odds were heavily in your favour if that's your barometer.
---------------------
It won't happen though. Wenger hasn't managed to hit 80 points in the league in a decade. It doesn't matter what players he has, his style of play and tactics will always be a limiting factor. Right now Arsenal are very top heavy with lots of pace and goals in attack, a supreme creator who thrives on space on the counter, a slow deep passer who is more comfortable sitting rather than running around - a sensible manager may perhaps set up his team to win the ball deep in midfield and release the attacking players early. But that is not Wenger. So the 'potential' in the squad will continue to go un-realised, as it has done for years. What you're engaging in is wishful thinking.
Yes, Utd are capable of winning the league this year. One of the key reasons for this is Mourinho. I wouldn't have had them as favourites because I think they're still a bit ponderous in possession and we may see a return of a few bore draws at some point. But undoubtedly they're stronger because Mourinho identified that having a slow striker impeded their ability to play on the counter. Lukaku rectifies that and in turn this brings out the best in other counter-attacking players like Mkhitaryan, Rashford and importantly Pogba. You've already seen in the first few games where they've scored 10 and conceded 0, and are now top of the league. How this bears any similarity to Arsenal - who have defensive and midfield problems and did nothing to fix them in the transfer window, and have now lost 2 games and conceded 8 goals - is beyond me. Utterly bizarre comparison which only goes to show how Wenger is incapable of building a title-winning squad, unlike certain other managers.
I've never been in the business of predicting where clubs finish, you must have confused me with someone else. The only club I tend to pass judgement on these days is Arsenal because, and this may come as a surprise to you, it is INCREDIBLY easy to predict how Arsenal's season will pan out because you just have to look at the past to see how the same methods and the same weaknesses produce the same results. So I'm comfortably predicting a 72-76 point finish, and 4th/5th place finish. Zero title challenge.
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Conversely you could say wenger has only fallen beneath 70 points once in the last decade or so with players like denilson and alumina at the helm so he is able to get a good performance no matter how poor the players at his disposal. The polar opposite to what you call a limiting factor. So easy to twist stats to fit your agenda isn't it.
Title wins are special one of occasions for most teams even the likes of city who buy World class players and out spend the world every summer, so I would not expect to see more than one or two 80+ finishes for almost everyone. Imagining that wenger needs to finish above 80 points regularly is unrealistic, only fergie ever achieved that kind of consistentcy. Even your hero mourinho has had or was on course to very low point finshes on several occasions. Points averages are an extremely unreliable bat to beat a manager by don't you think.
What you say about wengers tactics making the team unable to release its potential is unfounded, speculative nonsense once again. How do you explain us destroying several of the top teams last season? It's not even that complicated, the premier league is usually won by the team most up for it for the largest amount of time and the team that suffers the least disruption through injuries, transfer rumours etc. You also need fans behind the team %100 at all times, something we have struggled with massively compared to every one of our rivals.
Your comments about United this season are hilarious, I thought it was just the mancs who were guilty of hyperbole but the illness appears to have affected our fans too. No doubt it we had won our first three games and I had stated we were going to win the title then I would be deluded right? Then why is it OK to try to justify 6th place united are competing for the title with 3 wins against average teams. Suddenly getting lukaku was a master stroke related to pace You'll probably just find that he had to find any kind of replacement for ibra and want away lukaku was a sensible purchase. A point emphasised by the fact ibra has been re signed now his injury is clearing up- why do this if his lack of pace was why they finished 6th?
So easy to create tales and stories of what's happening when football is a much similar business than that. You seem like you are intelligent so break away from the basic "wenger is the cause of all arsenal's failings" whilst "mourinho is a world class manager" narratives spun and perpetuated by media and fans. Drop all the narratives, anything can happen this season to any of the top teams
comment by Wengersaurus (U8691)
posted 4 hours, 31 minutes ago
Godfather is acting like we've improved yet the "genius" Wenger drops his 2 new signings for an important game at Anfield for no reason. And this guy thinks Wenger can win us the league again? Deluded.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He obviously picked a team he thought had more cohesion for such a big occasion. It backfired. This happens to all managers. If it had worked it would be seen as a masterstroke. Pep and mourinho constantly make very strange selection decisions :this is not the indicator of a bad manager
Conversely you could say wenger has only fallen beneath 70 points once in the last decade or so with players like denilson and alumina at the helm so he is able to get a good performance no matter how poor the players at his disposal. The polar opposite to what you call a limiting factor. So easy to twist stats to fit your agenda isn't it.
Title wins are special one of occasions for most teams even the likes of city who buy World class players and out spend the world every summer, so I would not expect to see more than one or two 80+ finishes for almost everyone. Imagining that wenger needs to finish above 80 points regularly is unrealistic, only fergie ever achieved that kind of consistentcy. Even your hero mourinho has had or was on course to very low point finshes on several occasions. Points averages are an extremely unreliable bat to beat a manager by don't you think.
What you say about wengers tactics making the team unable to release its potential is unfounded, speculative nonsense once again. How do you explain us destroying several of the top teams last season? It's not even that complicated, the premier league is usually won by the team most up for it for the largest amount of time and the team that suffers the least disruption through injuries, transfer rumours etc. You also need fans behind the team %100 at all times, something we have struggled with massively compared to every one of our rivals.
Your comments about United this season are hilarious, I thought it was just the mancs who were guilty of hyperbole but the illness appears to have affected our fans too. No doubt it we had won our first three games and I had stated we were going to win the title then I would be deluded right? Then why is it OK to try to justify 6th place united are competing for the title with 3 wins against average teams. Suddenly getting lukaku was a master stroke related to pace You'll probably just find that he had to find any kind of replacement for ibra and want away lukaku was a sensible purchase. A point emphasised by the fact ibra has been re signed now his injury is clearing up- why do this if his lack of pace was why they finished 6th?
So easy to create tales and stories of what's happening when football is a much similar business than that. You seem like you are intelligent so break away from the basic "wenger is the cause of all arsenal's failings" whilst "mourinho is a world class manager" narratives spun and perpetuated by media and fans. Drop all the narratives, anything can happen this season to any of the top teams
------------------------------
Yes. You could say that. But saying that Wenger ensures a decent minimum is completely irrelevant to the point about whether he can win the league. You don't win the league by never dropping below 70 points. You win it by scoring more points than anyone else - generally at least 80. Do I really have to explain the difference between a floor and a ceiling?
I don't expect Wenger to finish above 80 points regularly. I expect him to do it once in a while, as that's what you need to win a title (which I don't think Wenger is any longer capable of - but which you do). More diversion.
It's not unfounded because a) Arsenal had the worst defence of the top 6 and b) Arsenal had the worst head-to-head of the top 6.
https://twitter.com/squawka/status/863880010943352836?lang=en
See this is what I mean. You cherry pick stuff like victories against Chelsea and Utd, which in isolation sounds good, but ignore the overall trend, which is negative and a major factor in why Arsenal couldn't compete last season.
Yes, stating Arsenal would win the title on the back of 3 wins WOULD be deluded. Stating that Utd are contenders but not favourites for the title after 3 wins is not deluded. See how you're trying to draw a false equivalence between 2 different examples? One states with certainty, the other states with possibility. Not to mention that historically, Mourinho winning a title in his 2nd season is not at all a farfetched idea. Especially when he's laid the groundwork in his first season by focusing on defence-first, and bought a good counter-attacking centre forward in his second season. He did a similar thing at Inter with Milito/Eto'o and in his second spell at Chelsea with Costa. It will produce benefits all over the team because Mourinho is a counter-attacking coach by nature and recognises that having a good counter-attacking striker allows his team to create high quality chances on the break while simultaneously keeping it tight at the back. Utd will hit 80+ points this season and finish in the top 3, I am very confident of it. You can bookmark that if you want and refer back to it at the end of the season.
comment by The Godfather (U10154)
posted 50 minutes ago
comment by Wengersaurus (U8691)
posted 4 hours, 31 minutes ago
Godfather is acting like we've improved yet the "genius" Wenger drops his 2 new signings for an important game at Anfield for no reason. And this guy thinks Wenger can win us the league again? Deluded.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He obviously picked a team he thought had more cohesion for such a big occasion. It backfired. This happens to all managers. If it had worked it would be seen as a masterstroke. Pep and mourinho constantly make very strange selection decisions :this is not the indicator of a bad manager
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not going to get much cohesion playing players out of position, a player who wanted to be at the club we were facing plus Ramsey and Xhaka together in a 2. You don't have to get paid £10m a year to work this out.
Even if you ignore that, our defending is still a shambles, has been for a decade. The "you score 3, we'll score 4" policy only works if you have a Real Madrid level attack, and even then you still need to be able to be solid in bigger games.
Don't know why I'm bothering to be honest
I think its wise to segment Arsene Wenger's career into three. In the first part it was a partnership between Wenger and Dein. And it was the most successful. The second segment was when Wenger was forced to sell one player a season to make ends meet and the third part is as a manager with a lot of money to buy players and absolute power.
In a way Wenger has occupied all the three roles that managers have in the league.
Initially Wenger was a continental manager like Pep and Mourinho. He answered to a director of football.
Then Wenger was like the manager of a relegation type team whose best players were often sold by the ownership but still expected to work miracles.
And finally 2012 onwards Wenger has had Fergie type control.
Its ironic that Wenger has been the least successful when given all power. Why haven't the board realised their mistake?
comment by Wengersaurus (U8691)
posted 7 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by The Godfather (U10154)
posted 50 minutes ago
comment by Wengersaurus (U8691)
posted 4 hours, 31 minutes ago
Godfather is acting like we've improved yet the "genius" Wenger drops his 2 new signings for an important game at Anfield for no reason. And this guy thinks Wenger can win us the league again? Deluded.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He obviously picked a team he thought had more cohesion for such a big occasion. It backfired. This happens to all managers. If it had worked it would be seen as a masterstroke. Pep and mourinho constantly make very strange selection decisions :this is not the indicator of a bad manager
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not going to get much cohesion playing players out of position, a player who wanted to be at the club we were facing plus Ramsey and Xhaka together in a 2. You don't have to get paid £10m a year to work this out.
Even if you ignore that, our defending is still a shambles, has been for a decade. The "you score 3, we'll score 4" policy only works if you have a Real Madrid level attack, and even then you still need to be able to be solid in bigger games.
Don't know why I'm bothering to be honest
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Apart from kos for mert it was exactly same team that beat Chelsea in fa cup final when you all wrote us off. Your move
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 7 hours, 38 minutes ago
I think its wise to segment Arsene Wenger's career into three. In the first part it was a partnership between Wenger and Dein. And it was the most successful. The second segment was when Wenger was forced to sell one player a season to make ends meet and the third part is as a manager with a lot of money to buy players and absolute power.
In a way Wenger has occupied all the three roles that managers have in the league.
Initially Wenger was a continental manager like Pep and Mourinho. He answered to a director of football.
Then Wenger was like the manager of a relegation type team whose best players were often sold by the ownership but still expected to work miracles.
And finally 2012 onwards Wenger has had Fergie type control.
Its ironic that Wenger has been the least successful when given all power. Why haven't the board realised their mistake?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Least successful? I know we like to automatically devalue the fa cup because arsenal have won it and we don't like to give wenger credit. But 3 cups in 4 years beating every single big team on the way to those cups is surely better than 9 years without a trophy or whatever it was. I'd say based on our spending we are pretty much where we should be. A good team which could win the league if everything went our way (it never does, thanks refs) and cup winners. The board need to be dishing out 200 mill a season for a good few years like United and city for us to be title favourites every year
Hey Godfather, just wanted to refer back to this:
----
"The only club I tend to pass judgement on these days is Arsenal because, and this may come as a surprise to you, it is INCREDIBLY easy to predict how Arsenal's season will pan out because you just have to look at the past to see how the same methods and the same weaknesses produce the same results. So I'm comfortably predicting a 72-76 point finish, and 4th/5th place finish. Zero title challenge."
"Utd will hit 80+ points this season and finish in the top 3, I am very confident of it. You can bookmark that if you want and refer back to it at the end of the season."
----
So as it turns out, I was actually wrong about Arsenal as we were far sh!tter than even a cynic like me would have expcted. But prediction about Utd was bang on.
The purpose of this isn't to say "I told you so" but to point out that, by looking at past trends and judging teams by how well they have developed a coherent playing system (including signing players who fit that system), you can actually have a fair go at assessing the short-term prospects of a club.
Which is basically why a lot of us have wanted Wenger gone for years - the weaknesses which have underpinned our failures in the league and Europe have been consistent and glaringly obvious.
After years of sneering at people who wanted Wenger out, calling them reactionary idiots, and proclaiming that we "could" win the league - which has always been nothing more than wishful thinking, you have been proven wrong and the board have finally seen sense in forcing Wenger out of the club. This comes on the back of his worst ever season - lowest points, most goals conceded, most losses - leaving us pretty much in the same position where he found us. An inevitable decline that most of us saw coming from a mile off.
comment by The Godfather (U10154)
posted on 7/9/17
Of course we can win the title, the over reaction from the Liverpool result was ridiculous. We are much stronger than last year
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Ivan Gazidis...
Page 2 of 2
posted on 8/9/17
comment by Zlatan The King Ibrahimovic (U10026)
posted 2 hours, 57 minutes ago
The Robbfather is grate.
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Illiterate, knuckle dragging moron. This is what I'm dealing with. A complete idiot
posted on 8/9/17
comment by renoog (U4449)
posted 3 hours, 9 minutes ago
Godfather
It's simple logic for you, but then that's because you're incapable of looking at things in context and choose to cling onto snippets of info in isolation. For most people who actually follow Arsenal it's clear that Arsenal fell well short last season because they a) couldn't defend and b) couldn't compete against the top clubs, especially away from home.
https://twitter.com/search?vertical=default&q=arsenal%20results%20receipt&src=typd
More firepower doesn't solve that. Sorting out the midfield and defence does. Those areas are weaker this season. Although maybe if you subscribe to the Wenger/Keegan school of insanity then it's possible to out-score your way to a title (hint: it isn't).
Yes, we're three games into the season. But we're 20 years into Wenger. This crap has been going on for ages and with increasing regularity since 2012. The same failings are present which have been present in the past. Arsene's management doesn't change so results don't change either. Only a fool would ignore the historical trends and choose to cling onto 'but we're only 3 games in'. You do it without fail every season and you've been wrong every time. Yet you somehow have this incredible air of sanctimony about you in calling others fickle and brain-washed, when you're the ultimate short-termist yourself, conveniently losing any sense of perspective as soon as Arsenal hit a run of good form.
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We have the players in all positions to win the league. It's just a case of how the players perform and if they perform to their potential.
Here's a question for you to help you see what I'm talking about because you are blinkered: do you think united are capable of winning the league this year? I bet you do. This despite them finishing 6th, 6 points behind Wengers worst ever finish in 28 years. Matic and Lukaku are their only significant signings and it's extremely debatable whether they have improved on those two positions from last year. Zlatan was a genuinely world class player and Hererra stats were as good as Kante last season. Do you pick apart their summer for not strengthening their weakness? (not enough goals in the team apart from their striker) Or do you realise that players who underperformed last year like martial, rashford, miki etc might actually play better this year?
Who's been wrong more, me or you? Because on plenty of occasions you have told me that United, city spurs etc would do better than us after having big spending summers yet more times than not in recent years they have finished beneath us or won less trophies than us . Not a very fair bet if you're just basing my success on whether we win the title or not, seeing as one team takes the trophy. I'd say the odds were heavily in your favour if that's your barometer.
posted on 8/9/17
comment by I'm a WOKO - thats Wenger out, Kronke out (U16927)
posted 3 hours, 31 minutes ago
Changes in the first team squad
IN: Lacazette, Kolasinac
Return from loan: Wilshere, Chambers, Akpom, Debuchy
OUT: Ox, Perez, Gabby, Gibbs, Martinez.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
So you would keep the outs here if it meant sacrificing the ins? come on lad don't be ridiculous. Just admit we are in a better place this year. None of out outs were starters or even second choice those two ins will be first teamers when settled.
posted on 8/9/17
Godfather is acting like we've improved yet the "genius" Wenger drops his 2 new signings for an important game at Anfield for no reason. And this guy thinks Wenger can win us the league again? Deluded.
posted on 8/9/17
We have the players in all positions to win the league. It's just a case of how the players perform and if they perform to their potential.
Here's a question for you to help you see what I'm talking about because you are blinkered: do you think united are capable of winning the league this year? I bet you do. This despite them finishing 6th, 6 points behind Wengers worst ever finish in 28 years. Matic and Lukaku are their only significant signings and it's extremely debatable whether they have improved on those two positions from last year. Zlatan was a genuinely world class player and Hererra stats were as good as Kante last season. Do you pick apart their summer for not strengthening their weakness? (not enough goals in the team apart from their striker) Or do you realise that players who underperformed last year like martial, rashford, miki etc might actually play better this year?
Who's been wrong more, me or you? Because on plenty of occasions you have told me that United, city spurs etc would do better than us after having big spending summers yet more times than not in recent years they have finished beneath us or won less trophies than us . Not a very fair bet if you're just basing my success on whether we win the title or not, seeing as one team takes the trophy. I'd say the odds were heavily in your favour if that's your barometer.
---------------------
It won't happen though. Wenger hasn't managed to hit 80 points in the league in a decade. It doesn't matter what players he has, his style of play and tactics will always be a limiting factor. Right now Arsenal are very top heavy with lots of pace and goals in attack, a supreme creator who thrives on space on the counter, a slow deep passer who is more comfortable sitting rather than running around - a sensible manager may perhaps set up his team to win the ball deep in midfield and release the attacking players early. But that is not Wenger. So the 'potential' in the squad will continue to go un-realised, as it has done for years. What you're engaging in is wishful thinking.
Yes, Utd are capable of winning the league this year. One of the key reasons for this is Mourinho. I wouldn't have had them as favourites because I think they're still a bit ponderous in possession and we may see a return of a few bore draws at some point. But undoubtedly they're stronger because Mourinho identified that having a slow striker impeded their ability to play on the counter. Lukaku rectifies that and in turn this brings out the best in other counter-attacking players like Mkhitaryan, Rashford and importantly Pogba. You've already seen in the first few games where they've scored 10 and conceded 0, and are now top of the league. How this bears any similarity to Arsenal - who have defensive and midfield problems and did nothing to fix them in the transfer window, and have now lost 2 games and conceded 8 goals - is beyond me. Utterly bizarre comparison which only goes to show how Wenger is incapable of building a title-winning squad, unlike certain other managers.
I've never been in the business of predicting where clubs finish, you must have confused me with someone else. The only club I tend to pass judgement on these days is Arsenal because, and this may come as a surprise to you, it is INCREDIBLY easy to predict how Arsenal's season will pan out because you just have to look at the past to see how the same methods and the same weaknesses produce the same results. So I'm comfortably predicting a 72-76 point finish, and 4th/5th place finish. Zero title challenge.
posted on 8/9/17
Anyway, I admire your boundless optimism Godfather
Reminds me of myself on the old 606, when I used to post those first XI/second XI comparisons to show that Arsenal had the best squad in the league with promising youngsters like Traore, Denilson, Walcott, Senderos, Diaby, Bendtner etc. to call upon as backup.
posted on 8/9/17
comment by renoog (U4449)
posted 3 hours, 23 minutes ago
We have the players in all positions to win the league. It's just a case of how the players perform and if they perform to their potential.
Here's a question for you to help you see what I'm talking about because you are blinkered: do you think united are capable of winning the league this year? I bet you do. This despite them finishing 6th, 6 points behind Wengers worst ever finish in 28 years. Matic and Lukaku are their only significant signings and it's extremely debatable whether they have improved on those two positions from last year. Zlatan was a genuinely world class player and Hererra stats were as good as Kante last season. Do you pick apart their summer for not strengthening their weakness? (not enough goals in the team apart from their striker) Or do you realise that players who underperformed last year like martial, rashford, miki etc might actually play better this year?
Who's been wrong more, me or you? Because on plenty of occasions you have told me that United, city spurs etc would do better than us after having big spending summers yet more times than not in recent years they have finished beneath us or won less trophies than us . Not a very fair bet if you're just basing my success on whether we win the title or not, seeing as one team takes the trophy. I'd say the odds were heavily in your favour if that's your barometer.
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It won't happen though. Wenger hasn't managed to hit 80 points in the league in a decade. It doesn't matter what players he has, his style of play and tactics will always be a limiting factor. Right now Arsenal are very top heavy with lots of pace and goals in attack, a supreme creator who thrives on space on the counter, a slow deep passer who is more comfortable sitting rather than running around - a sensible manager may perhaps set up his team to win the ball deep in midfield and release the attacking players early. But that is not Wenger. So the 'potential' in the squad will continue to go un-realised, as it has done for years. What you're engaging in is wishful thinking.
Yes, Utd are capable of winning the league this year. One of the key reasons for this is Mourinho. I wouldn't have had them as favourites because I think they're still a bit ponderous in possession and we may see a return of a few bore draws at some point. But undoubtedly they're stronger because Mourinho identified that having a slow striker impeded their ability to play on the counter. Lukaku rectifies that and in turn this brings out the best in other counter-attacking players like Mkhitaryan, Rashford and importantly Pogba. You've already seen in the first few games where they've scored 10 and conceded 0, and are now top of the league. How this bears any similarity to Arsenal - who have defensive and midfield problems and did nothing to fix them in the transfer window, and have now lost 2 games and conceded 8 goals - is beyond me. Utterly bizarre comparison which only goes to show how Wenger is incapable of building a title-winning squad, unlike certain other managers.
I've never been in the business of predicting where clubs finish, you must have confused me with someone else. The only club I tend to pass judgement on these days is Arsenal because, and this may come as a surprise to you, it is INCREDIBLY easy to predict how Arsenal's season will pan out because you just have to look at the past to see how the same methods and the same weaknesses produce the same results. So I'm comfortably predicting a 72-76 point finish, and 4th/5th place finish. Zero title challenge.
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Conversely you could say wenger has only fallen beneath 70 points once in the last decade or so with players like denilson and alumina at the helm so he is able to get a good performance no matter how poor the players at his disposal. The polar opposite to what you call a limiting factor. So easy to twist stats to fit your agenda isn't it.
Title wins are special one of occasions for most teams even the likes of city who buy World class players and out spend the world every summer, so I would not expect to see more than one or two 80+ finishes for almost everyone. Imagining that wenger needs to finish above 80 points regularly is unrealistic, only fergie ever achieved that kind of consistentcy. Even your hero mourinho has had or was on course to very low point finshes on several occasions. Points averages are an extremely unreliable bat to beat a manager by don't you think.
What you say about wengers tactics making the team unable to release its potential is unfounded, speculative nonsense once again. How do you explain us destroying several of the top teams last season? It's not even that complicated, the premier league is usually won by the team most up for it for the largest amount of time and the team that suffers the least disruption through injuries, transfer rumours etc. You also need fans behind the team %100 at all times, something we have struggled with massively compared to every one of our rivals.
Your comments about United this season are hilarious, I thought it was just the mancs who were guilty of hyperbole but the illness appears to have affected our fans too. No doubt it we had won our first three games and I had stated we were going to win the title then I would be deluded right? Then why is it OK to try to justify 6th place united are competing for the title with 3 wins against average teams. Suddenly getting lukaku was a master stroke related to pace You'll probably just find that he had to find any kind of replacement for ibra and want away lukaku was a sensible purchase. A point emphasised by the fact ibra has been re signed now his injury is clearing up- why do this if his lack of pace was why they finished 6th?
So easy to create tales and stories of what's happening when football is a much similar business than that. You seem like you are intelligent so break away from the basic "wenger is the cause of all arsenal's failings" whilst "mourinho is a world class manager" narratives spun and perpetuated by media and fans. Drop all the narratives, anything can happen this season to any of the top teams
posted on 8/9/17
comment by Wengersaurus (U8691)
posted 4 hours, 31 minutes ago
Godfather is acting like we've improved yet the "genius" Wenger drops his 2 new signings for an important game at Anfield for no reason. And this guy thinks Wenger can win us the league again? Deluded.
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He obviously picked a team he thought had more cohesion for such a big occasion. It backfired. This happens to all managers. If it had worked it would be seen as a masterstroke. Pep and mourinho constantly make very strange selection decisions :this is not the indicator of a bad manager
posted on 8/9/17
Conversely you could say wenger has only fallen beneath 70 points once in the last decade or so with players like denilson and alumina at the helm so he is able to get a good performance no matter how poor the players at his disposal. The polar opposite to what you call a limiting factor. So easy to twist stats to fit your agenda isn't it.
Title wins are special one of occasions for most teams even the likes of city who buy World class players and out spend the world every summer, so I would not expect to see more than one or two 80+ finishes for almost everyone. Imagining that wenger needs to finish above 80 points regularly is unrealistic, only fergie ever achieved that kind of consistentcy. Even your hero mourinho has had or was on course to very low point finshes on several occasions. Points averages are an extremely unreliable bat to beat a manager by don't you think.
What you say about wengers tactics making the team unable to release its potential is unfounded, speculative nonsense once again. How do you explain us destroying several of the top teams last season? It's not even that complicated, the premier league is usually won by the team most up for it for the largest amount of time and the team that suffers the least disruption through injuries, transfer rumours etc. You also need fans behind the team %100 at all times, something we have struggled with massively compared to every one of our rivals.
Your comments about United this season are hilarious, I thought it was just the mancs who were guilty of hyperbole but the illness appears to have affected our fans too. No doubt it we had won our first three games and I had stated we were going to win the title then I would be deluded right? Then why is it OK to try to justify 6th place united are competing for the title with 3 wins against average teams. Suddenly getting lukaku was a master stroke related to pace You'll probably just find that he had to find any kind of replacement for ibra and want away lukaku was a sensible purchase. A point emphasised by the fact ibra has been re signed now his injury is clearing up- why do this if his lack of pace was why they finished 6th?
So easy to create tales and stories of what's happening when football is a much similar business than that. You seem like you are intelligent so break away from the basic "wenger is the cause of all arsenal's failings" whilst "mourinho is a world class manager" narratives spun and perpetuated by media and fans. Drop all the narratives, anything can happen this season to any of the top teams
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Yes. You could say that. But saying that Wenger ensures a decent minimum is completely irrelevant to the point about whether he can win the league. You don't win the league by never dropping below 70 points. You win it by scoring more points than anyone else - generally at least 80. Do I really have to explain the difference between a floor and a ceiling?
I don't expect Wenger to finish above 80 points regularly. I expect him to do it once in a while, as that's what you need to win a title (which I don't think Wenger is any longer capable of - but which you do). More diversion.
It's not unfounded because a) Arsenal had the worst defence of the top 6 and b) Arsenal had the worst head-to-head of the top 6.
https://twitter.com/squawka/status/863880010943352836?lang=en
See this is what I mean. You cherry pick stuff like victories against Chelsea and Utd, which in isolation sounds good, but ignore the overall trend, which is negative and a major factor in why Arsenal couldn't compete last season.
Yes, stating Arsenal would win the title on the back of 3 wins WOULD be deluded. Stating that Utd are contenders but not favourites for the title after 3 wins is not deluded. See how you're trying to draw a false equivalence between 2 different examples? One states with certainty, the other states with possibility. Not to mention that historically, Mourinho winning a title in his 2nd season is not at all a farfetched idea. Especially when he's laid the groundwork in his first season by focusing on defence-first, and bought a good counter-attacking centre forward in his second season. He did a similar thing at Inter with Milito/Eto'o and in his second spell at Chelsea with Costa. It will produce benefits all over the team because Mourinho is a counter-attacking coach by nature and recognises that having a good counter-attacking striker allows his team to create high quality chances on the break while simultaneously keeping it tight at the back. Utd will hit 80+ points this season and finish in the top 3, I am very confident of it. You can bookmark that if you want and refer back to it at the end of the season.
posted on 8/9/17
comment by The Godfather (U10154)
posted 50 minutes ago
comment by Wengersaurus (U8691)
posted 4 hours, 31 minutes ago
Godfather is acting like we've improved yet the "genius" Wenger drops his 2 new signings for an important game at Anfield for no reason. And this guy thinks Wenger can win us the league again? Deluded.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He obviously picked a team he thought had more cohesion for such a big occasion. It backfired. This happens to all managers. If it had worked it would be seen as a masterstroke. Pep and mourinho constantly make very strange selection decisions :this is not the indicator of a bad manager
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not going to get much cohesion playing players out of position, a player who wanted to be at the club we were facing plus Ramsey and Xhaka together in a 2. You don't have to get paid £10m a year to work this out.
Even if you ignore that, our defending is still a shambles, has been for a decade. The "you score 3, we'll score 4" policy only works if you have a Real Madrid level attack, and even then you still need to be able to be solid in bigger games.
Don't know why I'm bothering to be honest
posted on 8/9/17
I think its wise to segment Arsene Wenger's career into three. In the first part it was a partnership between Wenger and Dein. And it was the most successful. The second segment was when Wenger was forced to sell one player a season to make ends meet and the third part is as a manager with a lot of money to buy players and absolute power.
In a way Wenger has occupied all the three roles that managers have in the league.
Initially Wenger was a continental manager like Pep and Mourinho. He answered to a director of football.
Then Wenger was like the manager of a relegation type team whose best players were often sold by the ownership but still expected to work miracles.
And finally 2012 onwards Wenger has had Fergie type control.
Its ironic that Wenger has been the least successful when given all power. Why haven't the board realised their mistake?
posted on 8/9/17
If you say so, Rob.
posted on 8/9/17
comment by Wengersaurus (U8691)
posted 7 hours, 45 minutes ago
comment by The Godfather (U10154)
posted 50 minutes ago
comment by Wengersaurus (U8691)
posted 4 hours, 31 minutes ago
Godfather is acting like we've improved yet the "genius" Wenger drops his 2 new signings for an important game at Anfield for no reason. And this guy thinks Wenger can win us the league again? Deluded.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He obviously picked a team he thought had more cohesion for such a big occasion. It backfired. This happens to all managers. If it had worked it would be seen as a masterstroke. Pep and mourinho constantly make very strange selection decisions :this is not the indicator of a bad manager
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Not going to get much cohesion playing players out of position, a player who wanted to be at the club we were facing plus Ramsey and Xhaka together in a 2. You don't have to get paid £10m a year to work this out.
Even if you ignore that, our defending is still a shambles, has been for a decade. The "you score 3, we'll score 4" policy only works if you have a Real Madrid level attack, and even then you still need to be able to be solid in bigger games.
Don't know why I'm bothering to be honest
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Apart from kos for mert it was exactly same team that beat Chelsea in fa cup final when you all wrote us off. Your move
posted on 8/9/17
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 7 hours, 38 minutes ago
I think its wise to segment Arsene Wenger's career into three. In the first part it was a partnership between Wenger and Dein. And it was the most successful. The second segment was when Wenger was forced to sell one player a season to make ends meet and the third part is as a manager with a lot of money to buy players and absolute power.
In a way Wenger has occupied all the three roles that managers have in the league.
Initially Wenger was a continental manager like Pep and Mourinho. He answered to a director of football.
Then Wenger was like the manager of a relegation type team whose best players were often sold by the ownership but still expected to work miracles.
And finally 2012 onwards Wenger has had Fergie type control.
Its ironic that Wenger has been the least successful when given all power. Why haven't the board realised their mistake?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Least successful? I know we like to automatically devalue the fa cup because arsenal have won it and we don't like to give wenger credit. But 3 cups in 4 years beating every single big team on the way to those cups is surely better than 9 years without a trophy or whatever it was. I'd say based on our spending we are pretty much where we should be. A good team which could win the league if everything went our way (it never does, thanks refs) and cup winners. The board need to be dishing out 200 mill a season for a good few years like United and city for us to be title favourites every year
posted on 13/5/18
Hey Godfather, just wanted to refer back to this:
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"The only club I tend to pass judgement on these days is Arsenal because, and this may come as a surprise to you, it is INCREDIBLY easy to predict how Arsenal's season will pan out because you just have to look at the past to see how the same methods and the same weaknesses produce the same results. So I'm comfortably predicting a 72-76 point finish, and 4th/5th place finish. Zero title challenge."
"Utd will hit 80+ points this season and finish in the top 3, I am very confident of it. You can bookmark that if you want and refer back to it at the end of the season."
----
So as it turns out, I was actually wrong about Arsenal as we were far sh!tter than even a cynic like me would have expcted. But prediction about Utd was bang on.
The purpose of this isn't to say "I told you so" but to point out that, by looking at past trends and judging teams by how well they have developed a coherent playing system (including signing players who fit that system), you can actually have a fair go at assessing the short-term prospects of a club.
Which is basically why a lot of us have wanted Wenger gone for years - the weaknesses which have underpinned our failures in the league and Europe have been consistent and glaringly obvious.
After years of sneering at people who wanted Wenger out, calling them reactionary idiots, and proclaiming that we "could" win the league - which has always been nothing more than wishful thinking, you have been proven wrong and the board have finally seen sense in forcing Wenger out of the club. This comes on the back of his worst ever season - lowest points, most goals conceded, most losses - leaving us pretty much in the same position where he found us. An inevitable decline that most of us saw coming from a mile off.
posted on 13/5/18
comment by The Godfather (U10154)
posted on 7/9/17
Of course we can win the title, the over reaction from the Liverpool result was ridiculous. We are much stronger than last year
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