Not sure where this is going...
Racism is a stain on football and society... You can't compare the chants about RVP or Wenger or scouse bstrds with that.
There's a difference.
Scousers aren't victims of discrimination - that's about a regional rivalry basically on an even level. Abusing an individual based on something he's alleged to have done is bullying and unacceptable, but again it's just targeting an individual. Racial abuse isn't just about the individual target. It dehumanises the whole race. It's Salah and Muslims in general. Or (to take an example I witnessed live as a child) monkey sounds directed at John Barnes spread the idea that all black people are lesser humans.
Never fails to amaze me this site how few on here understand what racial abuse is.
I don’t think there’s any comparison. But if there was, something worse than racism happening, doesn’t really make racism better
Just my opinion. Maybe I’m totally wrong
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
This is always a complicated one. I hate racism - but no more than I hate any other type of abuse that tries to demean someone.
For me, when you are the victim of abuse, you experience it on an individual level. It doesn’t matter what you’re accused of or victimised for, I think the pain runs as deep. Yes, “groups” like black people, gay people, women etc have been oppressed, and I feel that the abuser is that bit more culpable when they weigh in against such people, because of the historical and social realities they evoke when doing so; but I don’t believe being on the receiving end of such abuse is automatically and undeniably worse than any other.
I read Said, Fanon, Achebe, Morrison and many others at university, and since; I like to think I’m moderately well versed in the tropes of otherness and the historical, pseudoscientific roots of racism.
When you’re singled out for who you are (or who you’re not), no one has the monopoly on misery.
First of all feck the media, they shouldn't be used as a barometer of what's more unacceptable than anything else.
"is too much made of racism in football compared to other things chanted at games?"
You can never make too much of it, it's a disease. This doesn't of course mean that other forms of abuse can't be highlighted or combatted as aggressively as racism.
People still chant disgusting things about the Munich disaster and Hillsborough, these people need kicking out/kicked in the head.
Racism though, historically and still is a tool for genocide, mass oppression and an excuse to civilise (invade and conquer) large parts of this planet. When you look at the bigger picture, racism is far more dangerous and unfortunately it's slowly creeping back into our society.
comment by definitely not hippo (U1301)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 38 minutes ago
There's a difference.
Scousers aren't victims of discrimination - that's about a regional rivalry basically on an even level. Abusing an individual based on something he's alleged to have done is bullying and unacceptable, but again it's just targeting an individual. Racial abuse isn't just about the individual target. It dehumanises the whole race. It's Salah and Muslims in general. Or (to take an example I witnessed live as a child) monkey sounds directed at John Barnes spread the idea that all black people are lesser humans.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with this but i don‘t understand how this makes it worse?
Individual insults are a million times more hurtful than group insults.
If somebody says something mean about my heritage or nation i don‘t care at all, if 70 000 people were calling me a freak (like Crouch is called) that would be worse
Both should be banned
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you are insulted publicly and repeatedly based on your particularly unique and strange looking face, damage is done to one victim.
If you are insulted publicly and repeatedly based on your race, damage is done to very many people and to the fabric of society.
comment by definitely not hippo (U1301)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 38 minutes ago
There's a difference.
Scousers aren't victims of discrimination - that's about a regional rivalry basically on an even level. Abusing an individual based on something he's alleged to have done is bullying and unacceptable, but again it's just targeting an individual. Racial abuse isn't just about the individual target. It dehumanises the whole race. It's Salah and Muslims in general. Or (to take an example I witnessed live as a child) monkey sounds directed at John Barnes spread the idea that all black people are lesser humans.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with this but i don‘t understand how this makes it worse?
Individual insults are a million times more hurtful than group insults.
If somebody says something mean about my heritage or nation i don‘t care at all, if 70 000 people were calling me a freak (like Crouch is called) that would be worse
Both should be banned
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Easy to say if you're, white, straight, western European and people like you don't periodically get put at the back of the queue for jobs / tenancy applications and at the front for police searches.
And the same can of course be said about sexism, socio-economic discrimination, xenophobia, homophobia, transphobia, etc.
Prefer the old days, someone called u a name....you punched em, never called u again
Too many pc soft people these days.
comment by Got_Better (U6241)
posted 29 seconds ago
Prefer the old days, someone called u a name....you punched em, never called u again
Too many pc soft people these days.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Doesn't always work so well that approach for individuals confronted by large groups, women being intimidated by men, wheelchair users, etc.
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
I consider myself to be quite a tall person. I also wouldn't claim that any abuse directed at me as a result of this freakishness is in any way similar to abide directed at a Muslim man because of his faith, or a black teenager because of the colour of their skin. Same goes for LGBT, disabled and other minorities.
The issue is surely that racism is not just a way of demeaning a group. On most cases you are attacking both a group and an individual. Surely this is worse than doing one or the other.
comment by Got_Better (U6241)
posted 56 minutes ago
Prefer the old days, someone called u a name....you punched em, never called u again
Too many pc soft people these days.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which good old days were those then? What decade?
I remember punching a kid in the face for calling me a p@ki and then his mates jumped me after school.
That was the 90's, so I'm guessing you're referring to the 80's... yeah must be the 80's. No PC softies in the 80's just really hard blokes like your self.
Stick to your delusional ramblings about Liverpool in the future please.
comment by Kung Fu Cantona ππΌ π΅πΈ (U18082)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Got_Better (U6241)
posted 56 minutes ago
Prefer the old days, someone called u a name....you punched em, never called u again
Too many pc soft people these days.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which good old days were those then? What decade?
I remember punching a kid in the face for calling me a p@ki and then his mates jumped me after school.
That was the 90's, so I'm guessing you're referring to the 80's... yeah must be the 80's. No PC softies in the 80's just really hard blokes like your self.
Stick to your delusional ramblings about Liverpool in the future please.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
GB acting all hard behind his big bad keyboard.
comment by Kung Fu Cantona ππΌ π΅πΈ (U18082)
posted 1 hour, 28 minutes ago
First of all feck the media, they shouldn't be used as a barometer of what's more unacceptable than anything else.
"is too much made of racism in football compared to other things chanted at games?"
You can never make too much of it, it's a disease. This doesn't of course mean that other forms of abuse can't be highlighted or combatted as aggressively as racism.
People still chant disgusting things about the Munich disaster and Hillsborough, these people need kicking out/kicked in the head.
Racism though, historically and still is a tool for genocide, mass oppression and an excuse to civilise (invade and conquer) large parts of this planet. When you look at the bigger picture, racism is far more dangerous and unfortunately it's slowly creeping back into our society.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed.
Abuse directed to someone like Scouse B or Manc B is born out of regional rivalry usually through football and it goes no further than that (usually)
Racism has roots in classing all members of a particular race as inferior to another, leading them to being discriminated against, going further being stripped of certain rights and attracting violence and in the extreme circumstances genocide.
I think this needs to be added to the OP as a realisation of how dangerous any racism is
Individual bullying is bad. Racism is worse. But that doesn't make the former any better.
Too much of the new age, lesbian PC bigade on this thread.
Now I am racially a caucasian (that's WHITE ) but do strive for a decent all-year tan so if someone calls me a stupid, fat, old, white, knut am I offended and if so which word offends me most.
Well I am fat, on the old side and white so I cannot be offended by those words other than "stupid" and "knut".
If someone calls me a fat, old, whitey I cannot be offended as it's all true.
STICKS AND STONES, people should MAN UP
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 10 hours, 3 minutes ago
There's a difference.
Scousers aren't victims of discrimination - that's about a regional rivalry basically on an even level. Abusing an individual based on something he's alleged to have done is bullying and unacceptable, but again it's just targeting an individual. Racial abuse isn't just about the individual target. It dehumanises the whole race. It's Salah and Muslims in general. Or (to take an example I witnessed live as a child) monkey sounds directed at John Barnes spread the idea that all black people are lesser humans.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
scousers are victims of discrimination
going for a job interview down south with a scouse accent, is like going for a job interview in redneckville, south carolina, if you're black
comment by peks (U6618)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 10 hours, 3 minutes ago
There's a difference.
Scousers aren't victims of discrimination - that's about a regional rivalry basically on an even level. Abusing an individual based on something he's alleged to have done is bullying and unacceptable, but again it's just targeting an individual. Racial abuse isn't just about the individual target. It dehumanises the whole race. It's Salah and Muslims in general. Or (to take an example I witnessed live as a child) monkey sounds directed at John Barnes spread the idea that all black people are lesser humans.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
scousers are victims of discrimination
going for a job interview down south with a scouse accent, is like going for a job interview in redneckville, south carolina, if you're black
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Scouse and Job Interview.........
comment by puffinthebushkangaroo (U1950)
posted 2 hours, 7 minutes ago
Too much of the new age, lesbian PC bigade on this thread.
Now I am racially a caucasian (that's WHITE ) but do strive for a decent all-year tanso if someone calls me a stupid, fat, old, white, knut am I offended and if so which word offends me most.
Well I am fat, on the old side and white so I cannot be offended by those words other than "stupid" and "knut".
If someone calls me a fat, old, whitey I cannot be offended as it's all true.
STICKS AND STONES, people should MAN UP
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely spot on.
The word ‘n1gger’ for example originated in the 18th century as an adaptation of the Spanish negro, a descendant of the Latin adjective niger, which means black.
N1gger only means black, if I call a black man a n1gger than why should he be offended?
JOKE!
You’re a massive facking racist pleb who will find any excuse to be able to use a racial slur. Twwaaaaaat!
Sign in if you want to comment
Racial abuse
Page 1 of 2
posted on 7/2/19
Not sure where this is going...
Racism is a stain on football and society... You can't compare the chants about RVP or Wenger or scouse bstrds with that.
posted on 7/2/19
There's a difference.
Scousers aren't victims of discrimination - that's about a regional rivalry basically on an even level. Abusing an individual based on something he's alleged to have done is bullying and unacceptable, but again it's just targeting an individual. Racial abuse isn't just about the individual target. It dehumanises the whole race. It's Salah and Muslims in general. Or (to take an example I witnessed live as a child) monkey sounds directed at John Barnes spread the idea that all black people are lesser humans.
posted on 7/2/19
Never fails to amaze me this site how few on here understand what racial abuse is.
posted on 7/2/19
I don’t think there’s any comparison. But if there was, something worse than racism happening, doesn’t really make racism better
posted on 7/2/19
Just my opinion. Maybe I’m totally wrong
posted on 7/2/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 7/2/19
This is always a complicated one. I hate racism - but no more than I hate any other type of abuse that tries to demean someone.
For me, when you are the victim of abuse, you experience it on an individual level. It doesn’t matter what you’re accused of or victimised for, I think the pain runs as deep. Yes, “groups” like black people, gay people, women etc have been oppressed, and I feel that the abuser is that bit more culpable when they weigh in against such people, because of the historical and social realities they evoke when doing so; but I don’t believe being on the receiving end of such abuse is automatically and undeniably worse than any other.
I read Said, Fanon, Achebe, Morrison and many others at university, and since; I like to think I’m moderately well versed in the tropes of otherness and the historical, pseudoscientific roots of racism.
When you’re singled out for who you are (or who you’re not), no one has the monopoly on misery.
posted on 7/2/19
First of all feck the media, they shouldn't be used as a barometer of what's more unacceptable than anything else.
"is too much made of racism in football compared to other things chanted at games?"
You can never make too much of it, it's a disease. This doesn't of course mean that other forms of abuse can't be highlighted or combatted as aggressively as racism.
People still chant disgusting things about the Munich disaster and Hillsborough, these people need kicking out/kicked in the head.
Racism though, historically and still is a tool for genocide, mass oppression and an excuse to civilise (invade and conquer) large parts of this planet. When you look at the bigger picture, racism is far more dangerous and unfortunately it's slowly creeping back into our society.
posted on 7/2/19
comment by definitely not hippo (U1301)
posted 23 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 38 minutes ago
There's a difference.
Scousers aren't victims of discrimination - that's about a regional rivalry basically on an even level. Abusing an individual based on something he's alleged to have done is bullying and unacceptable, but again it's just targeting an individual. Racial abuse isn't just about the individual target. It dehumanises the whole race. It's Salah and Muslims in general. Or (to take an example I witnessed live as a child) monkey sounds directed at John Barnes spread the idea that all black people are lesser humans.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with this but i don‘t understand how this makes it worse?
Individual insults are a million times more hurtful than group insults.
If somebody says something mean about my heritage or nation i don‘t care at all, if 70 000 people were calling me a freak (like Crouch is called) that would be worse
Both should be banned
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you are insulted publicly and repeatedly based on your particularly unique and strange looking face, damage is done to one victim.
If you are insulted publicly and repeatedly based on your race, damage is done to very many people and to the fabric of society.
posted on 7/2/19
comment by definitely not hippo (U1301)
posted 25 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 38 minutes ago
There's a difference.
Scousers aren't victims of discrimination - that's about a regional rivalry basically on an even level. Abusing an individual based on something he's alleged to have done is bullying and unacceptable, but again it's just targeting an individual. Racial abuse isn't just about the individual target. It dehumanises the whole race. It's Salah and Muslims in general. Or (to take an example I witnessed live as a child) monkey sounds directed at John Barnes spread the idea that all black people are lesser humans.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with this but i don‘t understand how this makes it worse?
Individual insults are a million times more hurtful than group insults.
If somebody says something mean about my heritage or nation i don‘t care at all, if 70 000 people were calling me a freak (like Crouch is called) that would be worse
Both should be banned
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Easy to say if you're, white, straight, western European and people like you don't periodically get put at the back of the queue for jobs / tenancy applications and at the front for police searches.
posted on 7/2/19
And the same can of course be said about sexism, socio-economic discrimination, xenophobia, homophobia, transphobia, etc.
posted on 7/2/19
Prefer the old days, someone called u a name....you punched em, never called u again
Too many pc soft people these days.
posted on 7/2/19
comment by Got_Better (U6241)
posted 29 seconds ago
Prefer the old days, someone called u a name....you punched em, never called u again
Too many pc soft people these days.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Doesn't always work so well that approach for individuals confronted by large groups, women being intimidated by men, wheelchair users, etc.
posted on 7/2/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 7/2/19
Comment deleted by Site Moderator
posted on 7/2/19
I consider myself to be quite a tall person. I also wouldn't claim that any abuse directed at me as a result of this freakishness is in any way similar to abide directed at a Muslim man because of his faith, or a black teenager because of the colour of their skin. Same goes for LGBT, disabled and other minorities.
The issue is surely that racism is not just a way of demeaning a group. On most cases you are attacking both a group and an individual. Surely this is worse than doing one or the other.
posted on 7/2/19
comment by Got_Better (U6241)
posted 56 minutes ago
Prefer the old days, someone called u a name....you punched em, never called u again
Too many pc soft people these days.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which good old days were those then? What decade?
I remember punching a kid in the face for calling me a p@ki and then his mates jumped me after school.
That was the 90's, so I'm guessing you're referring to the 80's... yeah must be the 80's. No PC softies in the 80's just really hard blokes like your self.
Stick to your delusional ramblings about Liverpool in the future please.
posted on 7/2/19
comment by Kung Fu Cantona ππΌ π΅πΈ (U18082)
posted 10 minutes ago
comment by Got_Better (U6241)
posted 56 minutes ago
Prefer the old days, someone called u a name....you punched em, never called u again
Too many pc soft people these days.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which good old days were those then? What decade?
I remember punching a kid in the face for calling me a p@ki and then his mates jumped me after school.
That was the 90's, so I'm guessing you're referring to the 80's... yeah must be the 80's. No PC softies in the 80's just really hard blokes like your self.
Stick to your delusional ramblings about Liverpool in the future please.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
GB acting all hard behind his big bad keyboard.
posted on 7/2/19
GB
posted on 7/2/19
comment by Kung Fu Cantona ππΌ π΅πΈ (U18082)
posted 1 hour, 28 minutes ago
First of all feck the media, they shouldn't be used as a barometer of what's more unacceptable than anything else.
"is too much made of racism in football compared to other things chanted at games?"
You can never make too much of it, it's a disease. This doesn't of course mean that other forms of abuse can't be highlighted or combatted as aggressively as racism.
People still chant disgusting things about the Munich disaster and Hillsborough, these people need kicking out/kicked in the head.
Racism though, historically and still is a tool for genocide, mass oppression and an excuse to civilise (invade and conquer) large parts of this planet. When you look at the bigger picture, racism is far more dangerous and unfortunately it's slowly creeping back into our society.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed.
Abuse directed to someone like Scouse B or Manc B is born out of regional rivalry usually through football and it goes no further than that (usually)
Racism has roots in classing all members of a particular race as inferior to another, leading them to being discriminated against, going further being stripped of certain rights and attracting violence and in the extreme circumstances genocide.
I think this needs to be added to the OP as a realisation of how dangerous any racism is
posted on 8/2/19
Individual bullying is bad. Racism is worse. But that doesn't make the former any better.
posted on 8/2/19
Too much of the new age, lesbian PC bigade on this thread.
Now I am racially a caucasian (that's WHITE ) but do strive for a decent all-year tan so if someone calls me a stupid, fat, old, white, knut am I offended and if so which word offends me most.
Well I am fat, on the old side and white so I cannot be offended by those words other than "stupid" and "knut".
If someone calls me a fat, old, whitey I cannot be offended as it's all true.
STICKS AND STONES, people should MAN UP
posted on 8/2/19
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 10 hours, 3 minutes ago
There's a difference.
Scousers aren't victims of discrimination - that's about a regional rivalry basically on an even level. Abusing an individual based on something he's alleged to have done is bullying and unacceptable, but again it's just targeting an individual. Racial abuse isn't just about the individual target. It dehumanises the whole race. It's Salah and Muslims in general. Or (to take an example I witnessed live as a child) monkey sounds directed at John Barnes spread the idea that all black people are lesser humans.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
scousers are victims of discrimination
going for a job interview down south with a scouse accent, is like going for a job interview in redneckville, south carolina, if you're black
posted on 8/2/19
comment by peks (U6618)
posted 26 minutes ago
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 10 hours, 3 minutes ago
There's a difference.
Scousers aren't victims of discrimination - that's about a regional rivalry basically on an even level. Abusing an individual based on something he's alleged to have done is bullying and unacceptable, but again it's just targeting an individual. Racial abuse isn't just about the individual target. It dehumanises the whole race. It's Salah and Muslims in general. Or (to take an example I witnessed live as a child) monkey sounds directed at John Barnes spread the idea that all black people are lesser humans.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
scousers are victims of discrimination
going for a job interview down south with a scouse accent, is like going for a job interview in redneckville, south carolina, if you're black
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Scouse and Job Interview.........
posted on 8/2/19
comment by puffinthebushkangaroo (U1950)
posted 2 hours, 7 minutes ago
Too much of the new age, lesbian PC bigade on this thread.
Now I am racially a caucasian (that's WHITE ) but do strive for a decent all-year tanso if someone calls me a stupid, fat, old, white, knut am I offended and if so which word offends me most.
Well I am fat, on the old side and white so I cannot be offended by those words other than "stupid" and "knut".
If someone calls me a fat, old, whitey I cannot be offended as it's all true.
STICKS AND STONES, people should MAN UP
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely spot on.
The word ‘n1gger’ for example originated in the 18th century as an adaptation of the Spanish negro, a descendant of the Latin adjective niger, which means black.
N1gger only means black, if I call a black man a n1gger than why should he be offended?
JOKE!
You’re a massive facking racist pleb who will find any excuse to be able to use a racial slur. Twwaaaaaat!
Page 1 of 2