comment by Big Willy-Auba..Big name players don't sign for Pool. (U1100)
posted 54 seconds ago
Go's without saying.
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We ain't there yet mate, miss out on top 4 this year and there's a decent chance Unai goes. Then we've basically done a Moyes over 2 years as opposed to 1, which could be argued is worse.

It's skewed a bit because the old regime left us in the europa, whereas Fergie left United as champions of England.

It took us a season, but we seem to have finally put a structure in place that allows us to be run efficiently. You can't say the same about United, who are hamstrung by that utter clown they have in Woodward. He's our Gazidis, just with a lot more money at his disposal.

I think arsenal have taken better steps to improve the club than United, who just seem to have been chucking money at their problems. Now they've put faith on solskjaer, who I don't think is good enough.

Time will tell though. I'm not Emery's biggest fan, but I hope he can get us into the top 4 this year, plus a shiny Europa league trophy to go with it.

You cant judge Arsenals transition after a year, it could still go either way.
Also, as said above, United were champions when Fergie left we were already at a low when Wenger went.

From Fergie, realistically the only way was down

That said United did more things wrong in the first year post Fergie than Arsenal have in the first year post Wenger. (You can only really compare the same time frame, so one year and a couple of games).

Moyes, awful signings, removing the background staff etc - not sure they did anything well baring in mind they were champions and could have attracted far far better managers.

Jury is still out on Emery but the team building structure put in place at Arsenal seems more valid

"but we seem to have finally put a structure in place that allows us to be run efficiently"

Could you explain this a bit more, please?

Since SAF stepped down United have had
Moyes
Van Gaal
Mourhino
Solksjar

They have won trophies (not all mgrs)

Arsenal still too early to compare as this is Emery 's 2nd season only

comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 4 minutes ago
"but we seem to have finally put a structure in place that allows us to be run efficiently"

Could you explain this a bit more, please?
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Under Wenger and Gazidas (although we started this change pre Wenger leaving) a lot of our signings weren't a case of identifying weaknesses and splashing the cash/doing whatever it takes to fix them. It was taking advantage of perceived bargains, like Ozil becoming available. It did sometimes work but gaping holes in the squad were left unfilled for years.

We also had some bizarre socialists wage structure in place.

Now there's a proper focus on identifying weaknesses and remedying them. Starting with selling Giroud and bringing in top forwards to this season with buying a LB and Winger as well as strengtherning CM, CB.

Scruttocks (U19684)

Has Emery talked about that, or is that just your interpretation of the signings?

comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 1 minute ago
Scruttocks (U19684)

Has Emery talked about that, or is that just your interpretation of the signings?
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Emery is the coach, signings aren't handled by him - you can look it up

Also I should clarify the socialist wage structure was also moved away from and in the case of Ozil for instance went to the other extreme as we'd lost so many of our top players either on frees or cut price final year sales (because they'd be on little more than our worst players).

Progress off the field has been made at Arsenal (not hard, considering we ran a very inefficient model), whether that translates to onfield success remains to be seen

Scruttocks (U19684)

I didn't say he was, I was just asking if he's talked about and why you have this interpretation of the current situation.

I'm just interested in this idea that Arsenal are run efficiently but United aren't - not sure where the evidence for that comes from.

Your interpretation of Arsenal's transfers could easily be applied to United since Ole took over.

comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 6 minutes ago
Scruttocks (U19684)

I didn't say he was, I was just asking if he's talked about and why you have this interpretation of the current situation.

I'm just interested in this idea that Arsenal are run efficiently but United aren't - not sure where the evidence for that comes from.

Your interpretation of Arsenal's transfers could easily be applied to United since Ole took over.
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Fair enough

The first comment explained pretty clearly that this is based on the time frame after Wenger left compared to when Fergie left. You're 5(?) years away from what is being referred to.

Here it is again:

"That said United did more things wrong in the first year post Fergie than Arsenal have in the first year post Wenger. (You can only really compare the same time frame, so one year and a couple of games)."

Er, okay.

'It took us a season, but...' suggests to me you're saying that in the past year, Arsenal have been transformed into a club that is run efficiently vs United, who are not.

If we're discussing it since SAF left then I'd agree with you, but that's not actually what was said.

I think both clubs have moved on from poor planning in the past 12-18 months and actually, a lot of parallels can be drawn with the current approach.

comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 12 minutes ago
Er, okay.

'It took us a season, but...' suggests to me you're saying that in the past year, Arsenal have been transformed into a club that is run efficiently vs United, who are not.

If we're discussing it since SAF left then I'd agree with you, but that's not actually what was said.

I think both clubs have moved on from poor planning in the past 12-18 months and actually, a lot of parallels can be drawn with the current approach.
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When you addressed me specifically, even quoting what I'd said I assumed you were asking about that...

It might have changed at United although Ed is still there which makes it a very different scenario IMO. If he goes or is stripped of transfer responsibilities then I reckon it's more comparable

I quoted this:

"It took us a season, but we seem to have finally put a structure in place that allows us to be run efficiently. You can't say the same about United, who are hamstrung by that utter clown they have in Woodward."

I think Ed is just lacking any real strategic ability and just follows whatever trend is fashionable.

Ultimately, we have to judge the club based on it's actions and everything you've said about Arsenal could be said about United since Ole came in, so in my view the comment above has no real basis.

Ah ok fair enough. Think I misread your initial comment, thought it was referring to a very similar but different one

I can't agree yet that what United are doing under OGS is any different to the past, you're backing the specific manager on their vision but what happens if Ole is sacked at the end of the season - will this new/current approach continue or will the new manager rewrite the approach again?

Long term we need to see how it actually pans out, that much is clear.

So far it's failed for United but they started as League champions, Arsenal started at 6th, 12 points off fourth so it's quite different already.

What is clear with Arsenal is that they have changed stance on several of the clear mistakes made towards the end of Wenger and Gazidas' reign. Whether those changes are going to actually lead to something positive on the pitch is yet to be known.

Personally I think the background set up is really improving, what I'm not sure about is the manager (Emery I mean). What we saw throughout last season, particularly at the end was a major concern. He deserves a chance though, just as OGS does.

Arsenal for sure, they improved when Wenger left. Not by a lot, but compared with the catastrophe that was Moyes’ tenure Emery’s been a revelation.

Scruttocks (U19684)

I can understand where you're coming from but have to say, I disagree.

There is clearly an approach by United to stop buying aging players and eveything you said about 'filling the gaps' seems to also apply to United.

I think we've seen enough to make the comparison, particularly when a lot of what you say about Arsenal is really just a favourable interpretation of events rather than any policy they've actually released.

eveything you said about 'filling the gaps' seems to also apply to United.
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How? We didn’t sign a striker, central midfielder or a proven right winger.

comment by Mason The King Greenwood (U10026)
posted 1 minute ago
eveything you said about 'filling the gaps' seems to also apply to United.
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How? We didn’t sign a striker, central midfielder or a proven right winger.
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The players we did buy were clearly to deal with holes in the squad.

The fact that we didn't fill all the holes doesn't mean that wasn't the approach.

You could say the same of any other transfer window we’ve had. Clubs don’t just sign players for the sake of it. But our transfer window was poor and quite different from Arsenal’s as they’ve been addressing most of their weaknesses - they’ve brought in the winger, left back, central midfielder and central defender that they’ve needed. United, by comparison, have completely neglected the squad in key areas.

They finished above us last season, and likey will again this season, because they are a bettet run club than us.

Mason The King Greenwood (U10026)

Could you?

Not sure what hole Sanchez was signed for.

The point was that our approach to transfers in the past year has been comparable and I stand by that.

The hole that was a top class attacker missing from the team. The fact he ender up being terrible doesn’t mean the intentions were different.

I don’t see much comparison. Arsenal have been addressing their weakest areas. We’ve been neglecting ours.

comment by Mason The King Greenwood (U10026)
posted 37 seconds ago
The hole that was a top class attacker missing from the team. The fact he ender up being terrible doesn’t mean the intentions were different.

I don’t see much comparison. Arsenal have been addressing their weakest areas. We’ve been neglecting ours.


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Is that the hole where our £75 million player was playing?

Get real! We picked him up because he was available, not because we'd been searching for a player in the position he plays.

And United have been addressing their weakest areas - centre half and right back were screaming out for improvement, and we've signed a right winger when we had none.

The fact we haven't addressed other weak areas doesn't change that.

I'd also argue that both clubs are weak in the DM area and neither sorted it out.