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posted on 8/3/20

Els, FA always use the civil standard for all their charges - so would have been same in your scenario.
Germany, whilst you are linguistically correct, the law does differentiate between these two terms.

posted on 8/3/20

comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 1 hour, 58 minutes ago
Feeling strongly about such "casual racism" - however you feel about calling someone a f...ing n.....r in anger, in public - is not "jumping on the PC bandwagon", Stevie.

Of course Casilla should be forgiven and "rehabilitated," as per Bielsa's intentions. If Bielsa plays him again, then I will even accept that.

But the other point outside of the issue of racism and what to do about it is whether Casilla can be forgiven for leaving us without an experienced keeper during this the final stretch of the campaign. I'm rooting for Meslier, believe me, and as far as it goes, the signs look good - he seems very confident and competent.

Nothing to do with political correctness - that's too easy. Everything to do with doing the right thing, setting the right example, showing leadership and responsibility.
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Racism is racism nothing to do with being casual or otherwise. KC has been found guilty, the process and degree of guilt determined by the FA not I.

I find the term "balance of probability" loose but it is what it is. However they or the witnesses have not had their case proven beyond reasonable doubt, something our judicial system is based upon.

He's had his punishment and I'm saying its a little unfair to then clamour for his sacking in these circumstances.

His ban is his fault, Leeds United being left without an inexperienced understudy is not. That's down to Bielsa et al. You might as well blame Bamford for being the only fit natural striker too......

The whole process re Casilla has been handled incorrectly in my opinion but I'm not miles away from your feelings on the subject either. Part of my life is spent getting people back on track whatever the reason for their fall from grace. I'm not making excuses for anyone but some of these people make one poor decision that's costs them their freedom and potentially their future.

If we can't get them back on track then what's the point. I've made serious mistakes in my life but I'm fortunate to got through without heavy setbacks.

comment by Jaz63 (U8369)

posted on 8/3/20

Agree with most of that, thanks for clarifying. We only differ on how we view the consequences of Casilla's ban, in fact, but I'm definitely all for giving someone another chance when possible.

posted on 8/3/20

Stevie, do you still think Casilla is innocent like you said after the verdict?

posted on 8/3/20

Did Chelsea boot Terry?

Did Liverpool boot Suarez?

Why should Leeds United impose further punishment than others?

It’s like the Democratic Party here in the US. Senators and representatives quit when there is a hint of impropriety but Republicans fight to the death!

Let’s grow a pair and fight them!

For the record I grew up in a racist society that I abhorred and know the ills of discrimination first hand. It’s no joke and needs serious attention but lets keep it in perspective!

Same with Corona Virus. Now is not the time to panic.

Keep calm and Marching on TOGETHER!!!

posted on 8/3/20

comment by HaveFaithInLeeds (U8688)
posted 5 hours, 44 minutes ago
Stevie, do you still think Casilla is innocent like you said after the verdict?
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Not sure I said that. I did say that the authorities' findings, based on a balance of probability, were flawed and the overall process was shambolic.

Equally, you suggested that fans were partisan to defend him/find fault in the process. Something I find a little insulting. We are capable of making rationale decisions......

I don't think he should suffer further punishment. However, if the club decide to terminate his contract then I would support that decision.

posted on 9/3/20

I definitely think fans were partisan to defend him. There was no evidence out there to judge. I thought he was innocent but realised that was based on hope more than knowledge.

Look at the amount of abuse Leko got from Leeds fans on Twitter. It’s quite clear that most of the reaction to the verdict was defending Leeds come hell or high water. The reaction was not based on knowledge or fairness. And a lot of the reaction was a disgrace actually. And the reason for such a shocking reaction is that club loyalty clouds judgement.

Certainly flaws in the Fa process. The biggest was no releasing the findings at the same time of the verdict. I think that most fans agree Casilla should have been found guilty on the basis of probability now that we have read the evidence. Had this been released at the same time Leko could have avoided a vast majority of the abuse he got. The timing of the decision was also stupid and unfair on the club.

I do not blame the FA for how long it toook because generally it was our club that was delaying the process in an effort to collate evidence and produce as many witnesses as possible.

posted on 9/3/20

Totally in the FA’s control, timing was all on them.

posted on 9/3/20

comment by JonnyLosAngeles (My Dad was made in Leeds) עם ישראל חי (U9756)
posted 1 hour, 28 minutes ago
Totally in the FA’s control, timing was all on them.
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Do you think the club put up a reasonable defence ?

posted on 9/3/20

Leeds asked for the delays. Should the FA have rejected the clubs requests?

I don’t think the club put a reasonable defence. I think it looks like the club deliberately delayed the process as long as possible and just have had a pretty good idea what the verdict would be.

posted on 9/3/20

The amount of and the varied people they called as witnesses were not that helpful in the case imo.

posted on 9/3/20

comment by HaveFaithInLeeds (U8688)
posted 2 hours, 31 minutes ago
I definitely think fans were partisan to defend him. There was no evidence out there to judge. I thought he was innocent but realised that was based on hope more than knowledge.

Look at the amount of abuse Leko got from Leeds fans on Twitter. It’s quite clear that most of the reaction to the verdict was defending Leeds come hell or high water. The reaction was not based on knowledge or fairness. And a lot of the reaction was a disgrace actually. And the reason for such a shocking reaction is that club loyalty clouds judgement.

Certainly flaws in the Fa process. The biggest was no releasing the findings at the same time of the verdict. I think that most fans agree Casilla should have been found guilty on the basis of probability now that we have read the evidence. Had this been released at the same time Leko could have avoided a vast majority of the abuse he got. The timing of the decision was also stupid and unfair on the club.

I do not blame the FA for how long it toook because generally it was our club that was delaying the process in an effort to collate evidence and produce as many witnesses as possible.


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Any abuse directed at either party is unwelcome and juvenile. The delays/timetables are managed by the FA. Any request for more time has to be agreed by them. The "balance of probability" suggests that they took their time to make a final decision.

Asi said before, no party comes out of this with their heads held high.

That said, if evidence presented to Leeds United suggested Casilla wasn't guilty then I would expect them to support him. Wouldn't you?

The defence was considered unreliable. Does that mean the witnesses were lying or they weren't as compelling as the witnesses acting on Leko's behalf?

I don't condone Leko either coming out with his public frustrations. These conversations should take place behind closed doors.

He certainly shouldn't get abuse though, moronic behaviour of certain fans is not reflective of the whole.

comment by Jonty (U4614)

posted on 9/3/20

comment by Jaz63 (U8369)
posted 21 hours, 23 minutes ago
No Germany, I'm not having a go at the club. I love the club as much as anyone. I'm having a go at the Board, and more specifically the major shareholder. Have we heard from him on this? Does he need to make a statement? Should actions reinforce his words?

Yes, I agree, Leeds45, hindsight is a wonderful thing but the whole episode was whiffy from the off.

Yes, we have an uneasy resolution, I would say, to this situation. I don't want to run the club down. I want promotion on merit - particularly on the pitch. Bielsa has given us the chance of that, after all these years. I just want to enjoy it without reservation.
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Very well said.

posted on 9/3/20

I cannot believe you are finding Leko at fault here. He was racially abused. Has reported it, and because of that has received a boat load more abuse.

Of course I would expect the club to support him if they believe he is innocent.

With regards to the unreliable defence though, I think it was quite obvious that Matt Grice and Kiko Casilla were lying, and the FA deemed that to be the case.

Do you think Kiko should have been found innocent or guilty?

posted on 9/3/20

comment by Cal Neva (U11544)
posted 14 hours, 59 minutes ago
comment by JonnyLosAngeles (My Dad was made in Leeds) עם ישראל חי (U9756)
posted 1 hour, 28 minutes ago
Totally in the FA’s control, timing was all on them.
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Do you think the club put up a reasonable defence ?
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How do you define "reasonable?"

posted on 9/3/20

comment by HaveFaithInLeeds (U8688)
posted 8 hours, 56 minutes ago
I cannot believe you are finding Leko at fault here. He was racially abused. Has reported it, and because of that has received a boat load more abuse.

Of course I would expect the club to support him if they believe he is innocent.

With regards to the unreliable defence though, I think it was quite obvious that Matt Grice and Kiko Casilla were lying, and the FA deemed that to be the case.

Do you think Kiko should have been found innocent or guilty?
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Not sure you're understanding what I've actually said, instead you appear to be saying something different.

I've not said KC was innocent. I've not directed abuse at JL. I don't think it's appropriate for Leko to be complaining about the process, lack of support, KC being allowed to play whilst the FA contemplated the evidence.

You shouldn't put words in my mouth, I'm more than capable of airing my own views.

posted on 10/3/20

Where have I put words in your mouth?

I asked a question. Just answer it.

And read before respond maybe.

posted on 10/3/20

Can't be ar5ed mate. I have more important issues to attend to plus my position is entirely clear.

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