Sizzle has let enough time go now to turn this into a race thread as people have forgotten about the OP at this point.

It’s obvious that there was a significant lack of resources available for such a pandemic; I don’t think anyone would argue that but this is the case for the vast amount of countries.

What people have to understand is that this was a £ vs Lives decision for the government. You’ll never hear them say that as it would be political suicide so of course all you will hear is ‘this wasn’t predictable’ etc.
But ultimately they have to balance the damage done to the economy vs the amount of lives lost. Black Starr has been making this point and I think that’s exactly what they were doing and I have no problem with that at all.

I lost a relative to this today so it’s not about having no heart and morals it’s about a balancing act of money vs lives both of which are intertwined.

comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 7 seconds ago
comment by Redinthehead - FreeGaza - فلسطين (U1860)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Robb, the fourth husband of Joe Exotic (U22311)
posted 34 seconds ago
Blackstarr’s MO..

Call everyone who disagrees with him a ‘medical expert’ and say that unless they really are one they couldn’t possibly be right.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s not me you’re disagreeing with - it’s epidemiologists and chief medical officers, not only in this country but in many others in terms of timing interventions to flatten the curve

I think it’s fair to say that a load of football fans (myself included) maybe aren’t best placed to calling the shots on an infectious disease outbreak.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because scientists and data modelling experts can't be football fans, and certainly can't go on sports forums. (!)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m sure they can but I’m pretty sure none of you actually are
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I had this on another board
The mention of a forced lockdown by myself made me into some sort of fascist, orwellian tyrant.



Unfortuantley when you challenge narrow minded people's world view they can't handle it

Black Starr’s continually embarrassed himself on here throughout this whole episode.

Sorry to hear that Sat Nav.

comment by Joe The King Exotic (U10026)
posted 16 seconds ago
Black Starr’s continually embarrassed himself on here throughout this whole episode.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Sizzle too

And that Revolution guy? Has to be a wind up

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 1 minute ago
It’s obvious that there was a significant lack of resources available for such a pandemic; I don’t think anyone would argue that but this is the case for the vast amount of countries.

What people have to understand is that this was a £ vs Lives decision for the government. You’ll never hear them say that as it would be political suicide so of course all you will hear is ‘this wasn’t predictable’ etc.
But ultimately they have to balance the damage done to the economy vs the amount of lives lost. Black Starr has been making this point and I think that’s exactly what they were doing and I have no problem with that at all.

I lost a relative to this today so it’s not about having no heart and morals it’s about a balancing act of money vs lives both of which are intertwined.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
This. And I’m very sorry for your loss

comment by Joe The King Exotic (U10026)
posted 31 seconds ago
Black Starr’s continually embarrassed himself on here throughout this whole episode.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No he hasn’t, he just has a different opinion to you. Quite common place on a forum you would think?

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 24 seconds ago
It’s obvious that there was a significant lack of resources available for such a pandemic; I don’t think anyone would argue that but this is the case for the vast amount of countries.

What people have to understand is that this was a £ vs Lives decision for the government. You’ll never hear them say that as it would be political suicide so of course all you will hear is ‘this wasn’t predictable’ etc.
But ultimately they have to balance the damage done to the economy vs the amount of lives lost. Black Starr has been making this point and I think that’s exactly what they were doing and I have no problem with that at all.

I lost a relative to this today so it’s not about having no heart and morals it’s about a balancing act of money vs lives both of which are intertwined.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The economic realities are, and should be, at the heart of any decision the government makes regarding shutting down the country. The numbers i've seen imply that financially the lockdown is worth it for around 3 months.

I expect the UK will be gradually released from lockdown in June. Maybe slightly longer if Bojo worsens and the political climate shifts.

comment by Bales (U22081)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 24 seconds ago
It’s obvious that there was a significant lack of resources available for such a pandemic; I don’t think anyone would argue that but this is the case for the vast amount of countries.

What people have to understand is that this was a £ vs Lives decision for the government. You’ll never hear them say that as it would be political suicide so of course all you will hear is ‘this wasn’t predictable’ etc.
But ultimately they have to balance the damage done to the economy vs the amount of lives lost. Black Starr has been making this point and I think that’s exactly what they were doing and I have no problem with that at all.

I lost a relative to this today so it’s not about having no heart and morals it’s about a balancing act of money vs lives both of which are intertwined.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The economic realities are, and should be, at the heart of any decision the government makes regarding shutting down the country. The numbers i've seen imply that financially the lockdown is worth it for around 3 months.

I expect the UK will be gradually released from lockdown in June. Maybe slightly longer if Bojo worsens and the political climate shifts.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I agree. I actually hope they will soften the lockdown gradually sooner than that but it depends on what the NHS can handle

comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Redinthehead - FreeGaza - فلسطين (U1860)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Robb, the fourth husband of Joe Exotic (U22311)
posted 34 seconds ago
Blackstarr’s MO..

Call everyone who disagrees with him a ‘medical expert’ and say that unless they really are one they couldn’t possibly be right.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s not me you’re disagreeing with - it’s epidemiologists and chief medical officers, not only in this country but in many others in terms of timing interventions to flatten the curve

I think it’s fair to say that a load of football fans (myself included) maybe aren’t best placed to calling the shots on an infectious disease outbreak.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because scientists and data modelling experts can't be football fans, and certainly can't go on sports forums. (!)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m sure they can but I’m pretty sure none of you actually are
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think there are two or three on here absolutely as I've spoken to folk on here a year or two back about modelling dynamic systems and Markov chain Monte Carlo simulations. That's the thing about football fans, they cross a wide spectrum of society.

comment by Robb, the fourth husband of Joe Exotic (U22311)
posted 33 seconds ago
comment by Joe The King Exotic (U10026)
posted 16 seconds ago
Black Starr’s continually embarrassed himself on here throughout this whole episode.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Sizzle too

And that Revolution guy? Has to be a wind up
----------------------------------------------------------------------
At the end of the day Robb I’m not interested in trying to win arguments. I’ll make my points as I always do - I’ll defend the government at this time because we’re in the middle of a global pandemic not seen for 100 years and also because the PM is in intensive care.

I don’t think it’s the right thing to do to point fingers at a time like this - I think it’s a good time to pull together and find solutions. The time for criticism will come and it’s right that takes place.

Enjoy your evening

comment by Sat Nav (U18243)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Joe The King Exotic (U10026)
posted 31 seconds ago
Black Starr’s continually embarrassed himself on here throughout this whole episode.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No he hasn’t, he just has a different opinion to you. Quite common place on a forum you would think?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks!

comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 21 seconds ago
comment by Tamwolf (U17286)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 18 seconds ago

Again - let’s hear about your solution to all of this. What’s your exit strategy then? If there really are a load of brilliant strategic thinkers on here that have got excellent foresight than the suggestions will be really interesting to read
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Strange response. Tell everyone they didn't say the things they are saying now 3 weeks ago and they are only doing so with hindsight; then when it is pointed out they were, move it on to saying they need to have an exit strategy.

The exit strategy is always going to be the vaccine. What we are talking about now is the containment strategy in the mean time. It was clear looking at the curves of other nations that infections and deaths double every few days and also that the incubation time means there is a two week delay between taking action and numbers peaking. Lockdown and social distancing measures need to be taken as soon as a trend increase appears and be pre-emptive; not reactionary to a high escalation as by that time it is too late.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I haven’t seen any posts from 4 weeks ago which advocated a nationwide lockdown, increased testing and PPE for all nhs staff. If people were saying that then that’s very good foresight. But I think some people are actually speaking in hindsight - it happens a lot when a huge crisis happens

What I’m saying to these medical experts on 606 is if they called this epidemic absolutely right - then please use that brilliant strategic thinking to devise an exit strategy that doesn’t revolve around locking the country down until we get a vaccine - by which time we won’t have a country left
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Keep moving the goalposts.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And keep avoiding the question. What’s your exit strategy? One that balances the economic needs of 60 million people with the nhs capacity and the lives of many vulnerable people. Can’t wait for this
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I literally just told you what my strategy would be. You just ignored it and pretended that phased pre-emptive lockdown and a vaccine isn't a valid option.

You're a waste of time really. Just desperate to defend the government regardless of what the argument is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You’re exit strategy is an 18 month lockdown until we get a vaccine? Just to be clear that’s what you’re saying?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't know the time scales on vaccines. 18 months is a standard, but this isn't a standard situation. The pharma company I work for are already working in partnership with a firm who have isolated antibodies and are in trials. Regulators around the world will probably stop approvals of new medicines to focus on this which will move it forward.

In terms of lockdown, I have mention 'phased'. The government should be acting pre-emptively to contain, increasing testing and tracing contact. Once the numbers lower, they can lift restrictions (probably keep social distancing) but keep testing levels high and trace contact to contain. If a rising trend starts to show implement measures early. The fact is, they waited far too long to look to contain and now we probably face a much longer lockdown period because of it.

Here are some ICU stats if it hasn’t been posted

https://www.icnarc.org/DataServices/Attachments/Download/76a7364b-4b76-ea11-9124-00505601089b

Demographics BMI etc etc

comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 25 seconds ago
comment by Robb, the fourth husband of Joe Exotic (U22311)
posted 33 seconds ago
comment by Joe The King Exotic (U10026)
posted 16 seconds ago
Black Starr’s continually embarrassed himself on here throughout this whole episode.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Sizzle too

And that Revolution guy? Has to be a wind up
----------------------------------------------------------------------
At the end of the day Robb I’m not interested in trying to win arguments. I’ll make my points as I always do - I’ll defend the government at this time because we’re in the middle of a global pandemic not seen for 100 years and also because the PM is in intensive care.

I don’t think it’s the right thing to do to point fingers at a time like this - I think it’s a good time to pull together and find solutions. The time for criticism will come and it’s right that takes place.

Enjoy your evening
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He's in intensive care because he didn't take it seriously enough

He didn't take it seriously enough because he either:
a) had incorrect advice
b) made the right decisions

comment by Admin1 (U1)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Redinthehead - FreeGaza - فلسطين (U1860)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Robb, the fourth husband of Joe Exotic (U22311)
posted 34 seconds ago
Blackstarr’s MO..

Call everyone who disagrees with him a ‘medical expert’ and say that unless they really are one they couldn’t possibly be right.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s not me you’re disagreeing with - it’s epidemiologists and chief medical officers, not only in this country but in many others in terms of timing interventions to flatten the curve

I think it’s fair to say that a load of football fans (myself included) maybe aren’t best placed to calling the shots on an infectious disease outbreak.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because scientists and data modelling experts can't be football fans, and certainly can't go on sports forums. (!)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m sure they can but I’m pretty sure none of you actually are
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think there are two or three on here absolutely as I've spoken to folk on here a year or two back about modelling dynamic systems and Markov chain Monte Carlo simulations. That's the thing about football fans, they cross a wide spectrum of society.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t forget me, I’m also a genius

Rob, yeah sizzle and that Forest fans are lunatics.

We are looking at a peak in the next 2 week and according to data models, the deaths should fall after that. However, even June seems a bit optimistic for the country to get back to normal.
One thing that will change things is if we can do a test for antibodies in people, so we can see if people have already had it and gotten over it, then those people can go back to work etc.
We don't know if you can catch it again though in the future. That's the big question.

comment by Admin1 (U1)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Redinthehead - FreeGaza - فلسطين (U1860)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Robb, the fourth husband of Joe Exotic (U22311)
posted 34 seconds ago
Blackstarr’s MO..

Call everyone who disagrees with him a ‘medical expert’ and say that unless they really are one they couldn’t possibly be right.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s not me you’re disagreeing with - it’s epidemiologists and chief medical officers, not only in this country but in many others in terms of timing interventions to flatten the curve

I think it’s fair to say that a load of football fans (myself included) maybe aren’t best placed to calling the shots on an infectious disease outbreak.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because scientists and data modelling experts can't be football fans, and certainly can't go on sports forums. (!)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m sure they can but I’m pretty sure none of you actually are
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think there are two or three on here absolutely as I've spoken to folk on here a year or two back about modelling dynamic systems and Markov chain Monte Carlo simulations. That's the thing about football fans, they cross a wide spectrum of society.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There are some very clever posters on here that do a variety of different jobs.

How can anyone say he didn’t take it seriously enough

What a pathetic, immature and silly comment to make

We were facing an unknown virus in an unprecedented situation- he made all his decision on the expert advice given to him at the time

Hindsight is an amazing thing and you can make such better decisions with it - but that doesn’t mean he didn’t do his best and make the best choice given to him at the time

comment by Melt (U22362)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Admin1 (U1)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Redinthehead - FreeGaza - فلسطين (U1860)
posted 8 seconds ago
comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Robb, the fourth husband of Joe Exotic (U22311)
posted 34 seconds ago
Blackstarr’s MO..

Call everyone who disagrees with him a ‘medical expert’ and say that unless they really are one they couldn’t possibly be right.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It’s not me you’re disagreeing with - it’s epidemiologists and chief medical officers, not only in this country but in many others in terms of timing interventions to flatten the curve

I think it’s fair to say that a load of football fans (myself included) maybe aren’t best placed to calling the shots on an infectious disease outbreak.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Because scientists and data modelling experts can't be football fans, and certainly can't go on sports forums. (!)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m sure they can but I’m pretty sure none of you actually are
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think there are two or three on here absolutely as I've spoken to folk on here a year or two back about modelling dynamic systems and Markov chain Monte Carlo simulations. That's the thing about football fans, they cross a wide spectrum of society.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Don’t forget me, I’m also a genius
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Can't be Tamwolf.. Blackstarr doesn't think there are, and is pretty sure about it.

comment by Love Quinn (U8966)
posted 3 minutes ago
Here are some ICU stats if it hasn’t been posted

https://www.icnarc.org/DataServices/Attachments/Download/76a7364b-4b76-ea11-9124-00505601089b
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Some people been asking about survival etc in icu and their source

It’s right here