comment by Constantinople (U11781)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 12 minutes ago
I feel sorry for any government having to deal with this.
However, any real sympathy I had for our government disappeared when they confirmed they'd rather openly and brazenly lie to us, rather than just be honest and humble.
There should be no focus on image when dealing with a pandemic.
It was a disgusting moment and I will never forgive them for that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe you’re refereeing to the Dominic Cummings fiasco?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What else!
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by dunc manson... you must follow ole... you must follow ole (U11713)
posted 1 minute ago
i dont understand why people are shocked about lies... politicians make a living out of it.
they lie to get into power, and then lie when they are in regardless of which party you choose to vote for.
as i said before, yes mistakes have been made, but lets be honest, regardless of who was in charge mistakes would have happened and lives would have been lost.
the british public really didnt help the situation either.
ive seen gatherings myself during the lockdown period and you only have to watch the news to see the mass gatherings that have taken place over the weekend despite social distancing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s a cop out Dink. So politicians lie and everyone makes mistakes.. how many people need to die from these mistakes before the government is held accountable?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
its not a kop out mate, unfortunately it is what it is.
could lives have been saved? of course they could have and in an ideal world there would have been no deaths, but this whole pandemic has caught the world out, not just the British Government.
Regardless of who was in charge they were walking into the unknown, and it was never going to end well.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People #BLM (U21889)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 9 seconds ago
I feel sorry for any government having to deal with this.
However, any real sympathy I had for our government disappeared when they confirmed they'd rather openly and brazenly lie to us, rather than just be honest and humble.
There should be no focus on image when dealing with a pandemic.
It was a disgusting moment and I will never forgive them for that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
AND didn’t bother observing the rules themselves.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeh, it was poor but I can see how these things happen and I think the modelling accounts for this.
But to openly lie. To come up with a story so ridiculous, you'd send your child to their room for thinking they could lie their way out of it like that... and to apparently be beyond reproach for that lie.
Well, it just speaks for their [lack of] integrity.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No integrity and no credibility.
comment by dunc manson... you must follow ole... you must follow ole (U11713)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by dunc manson... you must follow ole... you must follow ole (U11713)
posted 1 minute ago
i dont understand why people are shocked about lies... politicians make a living out of it.
they lie to get into power, and then lie when they are in regardless of which party you choose to vote for.
as i said before, yes mistakes have been made, but lets be honest, regardless of who was in charge mistakes would have happened and lives would have been lost.
the british public really didnt help the situation either.
ive seen gatherings myself during the lockdown period and you only have to watch the news to see the mass gatherings that have taken place over the weekend despite social distancing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s a cop out Dink. So politicians lie and everyone makes mistakes.. how many people need to die from these mistakes before the government is held accountable?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
its not a kop out mate, unfortunately it is what it is.
could lives have been saved? of course they could have and in an ideal world there would have been no deaths, but this whole pandemic has caught the world out, not just the British Government.
Regardless of who was in charge they were walking into the unknown, and it was never going to end well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It wasn’t the unknown though, we had weeks of warnings that the government chose to ignore.
comment by Automatic For The People #BLM (U21889)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by dunc manson... you must follow ole... you must follow ole (U11713)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by dunc manson... you must follow ole... you must follow ole (U11713)
posted 1 minute ago
i dont understand why people are shocked about lies... politicians make a living out of it.
they lie to get into power, and then lie when they are in regardless of which party you choose to vote for.
as i said before, yes mistakes have been made, but lets be honest, regardless of who was in charge mistakes would have happened and lives would have been lost.
the british public really didnt help the situation either.
ive seen gatherings myself during the lockdown period and you only have to watch the news to see the mass gatherings that have taken place over the weekend despite social distancing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s a cop out Dink. So politicians lie and everyone makes mistakes.. how many people need to die from these mistakes before the government is held accountable?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
its not a kop out mate, unfortunately it is what it is.
could lives have been saved? of course they could have and in an ideal world there would have been no deaths, but this whole pandemic has caught the world out, not just the British Government.
Regardless of who was in charge they were walking into the unknown, and it was never going to end well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It wasn’t the unknown though, we had weeks of warnings that the government chose to ignore.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly. So many avoidable mistakes made at the start which loads of us plebs on here were talking about. Yet the government didn’t act on the obvious things.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Constantinople (U11781)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 12 minutes ago
I feel sorry for any government having to deal with this.
However, any real sympathy I had for our government disappeared when they confirmed they'd rather openly and brazenly lie to us, rather than just be honest and humble.
There should be no focus on image when dealing with a pandemic.
It was a disgusting moment and I will never forgive them for that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe you’re refereeing to the Dominic Cummings fiasco?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What else!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The fiasco, according to the polls, which dented the confidence the populace have in the PM and government. They dug their own graves and I’ve no sympathy for them.
They’re the only government in Europe who have been on the defensive with everything about the pandemic and haven’t owned up to any mistake.
In fairness, they didn't ignore anything.
They just stuck with their original plan for too long.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 minutes ago
In fairness, they didn't ignore anything.
They just stuck with their original plan for too long.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They ignored hundreds of independent scientists who told them their modelling and strategy was wrong.
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 minutes ago
In fairness, they didn't ignore anything.
They just stuck with their original plan for too long.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They ignored hundreds of independent scientists who told them their modelling and strategy was wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, and they should admit that their decisions have - it would seem - been the wrong ones.
But I think there's a danger of some misinterpretation of events happening when the mud starts flying.
The care homes debacle will be the great tragedy that this leaves behind (all deaths have been a tragedy before anyone starts). We have lost more in care homes than anywhere else.
A lot of investigation will be needed as to what happened in the care home system and why and how the virus was allowed to run rampant in that setting.
My opinion is that governments were so focused on their respective Health services capacities (ie hospitals, ICU, field hospitals etc) that care homes and their occupants were simply forgotten about and if the truth is something similar it will be the great crime from this whole sorry situation.
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 minutes ago
In fairness, they didn't ignore anything.
They just stuck with their original plan for too long.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They ignored hundreds of independent scientists who told them their modelling and strategy was wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Problme with that is there is always someone with a different opinion.
They was also scientists telling them to do it the way they did.
Same with the relaxing of the Lockdown, some SAGE members are saying its too early and others not.
The media will only pick up and report the bad and negative news.
Aren't care homes privately run though?
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 23 seconds ago
Aren't care homes privately run though?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont know Winston and my knowledge of UK ones is even less. I just feel that what happened in that setting will leave a memory that will linger for a long time.
comment by dunc manson... you must follow ole... you must... (U11713)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by dunc manson... you must follow ole... you must follow ole (U11713)
posted 1 minute ago
i dont understand why people are shocked about lies... politicians make a living out of it.
they lie to get into power, and then lie when they are in regardless of which party you choose to vote for.
as i said before, yes mistakes have been made, but lets be honest, regardless of who was in charge mistakes would have happened and lives would have been lost.
the british public really didnt help the situation either.
ive seen gatherings myself during the lockdown period and you only have to watch the news to see the mass gatherings that have taken place over the weekend despite social distancing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s a cop out Dink. So politicians lie and everyone makes mistakes.. how many people need to die from these mistakes before the government is held accountable?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
its not a kop out mate, unfortunately it is what it is.
could lives have been saved? of course they could have and in an ideal world there would have been no deaths, but this whole pandemic has caught the world out, not just the British Government.
Regardless of who was in charge they were walking into the unknown, and it was never going to end well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sir Kier would have done a lot better of course, hurrah for the flat caps
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 23 seconds ago
Aren't care homes privately run though?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont know Winston and my knowledge of UK ones is even less. I just feel that what happened in that setting will leave a memory that will linger for a long time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh I agree entirely.
I just don't know whether we can hold the government solely responsible for that.
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 1 minute ago
The care homes debacle will be the great tragedy that this leaves behind (all deaths have been a tragedy before anyone starts). We have lost more in care homes than anywhere else.
A lot of investigation will be needed as to what happened in the care home system and why and how the virus was allowed to run rampant in that setting.
My opinion is that governments were so focused on their respective Health services capacities (ie hospitals, ICU, field hospitals etc) that care homes and their occupants were simply forgotten about and if the truth is something similar it will be the great crime from this whole sorry situation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep, being discharged into care homes without any sort of testing was a recipe for disaster.
The government lie so much there really is no point listening to them any more. Everything they say is done to cover cracks and try to show themselves in a better light.
I'd have a modicum of respect for them if they admitted their errors, but they continue to delude themselves into thinking they're doing a good job.
It's absolutely no surprise we're recovering so slowly compared to our European counterparts. Just had a look at Spain's statistics, as they're a good example of a country initially hit very hard. 2 weeks ago their deaths were in the 50s and 60s each day (given we're supposedly 2 weeks behind them I thought that's a decent comparison) Their curve dramatically fell, ours is just plateauing with hundreds of deaths a day still.
The government's incompetence and cowardly lies are infuriating.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-care-homes-nhs-hospital-discharges-deaths-a9544671.html
comment by Dave&Danny (U4428)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by dunc manson... you must follow ole... you must... (U11713)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by dunc manson... you must follow ole... you must follow ole (U11713)
posted 1 minute ago
i dont understand why people are shocked about lies... politicians make a living out of it.
they lie to get into power, and then lie when they are in regardless of which party you choose to vote for.
as i said before, yes mistakes have been made, but lets be honest, regardless of who was in charge mistakes would have happened and lives would have been lost.
the british public really didnt help the situation either.
ive seen gatherings myself during the lockdown period and you only have to watch the news to see the mass gatherings that have taken place over the weekend despite social distancing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s a cop out Dink. So politicians lie and everyone makes mistakes.. how many people need to die from these mistakes before the government is held accountable?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
its not a kop out mate, unfortunately it is what it is.
could lives have been saved? of course they could have and in an ideal world there would have been no deaths, but this whole pandemic has caught the world out, not just the British Government.
Regardless of who was in charge they were walking into the unknown, and it was never going to end well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sir Kier would have done a lot better of course, hurrah for the flat caps
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No homophobic remark this time eh? Cretin.
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 51 minutes ago
Whilst at times the government have listened to the science, this has not always been the case (current loosening of restrictions a recent example).
......
I agree with the rest of your comment. This bit iI agree with but again he is trying to do a balancing act with getting the country running again and the loss of life.
We can not say locked down for ever. I know the Labour supporters among you won’t agree with this but I kind of feel sorry for the Govt here. They will be damned if they do and damned if they don’t.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What they can be is transparent about the advice they are getting, the strategy they are setting and the data they are working on. You're right, VC, that these are very delicate judgement calls. But they have run the government like a PR operation: opaque about the scientific advice (so that the wider scientific community can't peer review and validate or correct it); inconsistent about the rules around the lockdown and the thresholds for easing it (we plainly haven't met the conditions the government stipulated in terms of tracing and testing; not to mention the backpedalling on what the advice meant when they needed to absolve Cummings); opaque and sometimes downright dishonest about the stats.
I believe the British public has proved to be more responsible and more grown-up about this threat than the government expected. Apart from a few libertarian idiots on the fringes, we understand the dangers and the complexity of this, and we're willing to make personal sacrifices for the common good. I think we'd have responded pretty well to a government that was transparent, levelled with us about the dilemmas, laid out the scientific advice in full (making it clear that the information is incomplete and always changing) and explained the strategy behind regulations (again making it clear that the strategy might change as the facts did).
Failure to do this, on top of the initial catastrophic failure to lock down early enough (which paradoxically leads to a longer, more economically costly lockdown) has cost many, many lives. And I'm afraid the erosion of trust in the government will result in many more, because clarity of message and collective confidence in it is crucial in getting through this.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 23 seconds ago
Aren't care homes privately run though?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont know Winston and my knowledge of UK ones is even less. I just feel that what happened in that setting will leave a memory that will linger for a long time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh I agree entirely.
I just don't know whether we can hold the government solely responsible for that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree on the government point also they cannot be held 100% accountable for that part.
The other big disaster looming is the delayed treatment and diagnosis for other illnesses.
Cancer patients in particular.
The effects of this pandemic are going to be long lasting.
On a separate note you lads have the title Royal in some amount of hospitals.
I am currently setting up pricing master data for English hospitals and the amount with the word Royal!!!
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 51 minutes ago
Whilst at times the government have listened to the science, this has not always been the case (current loosening of restrictions a recent example).
......
I agree with the rest of your comment. This bit iI agree with but again he is trying to do a balancing act with getting the country running again and the loss of life.
We can not say locked down for ever. I know the Labour supporters among you won’t agree with this but I kind of feel sorry for the Govt here. They will be damned if they do and damned if they don’t.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What they can be is transparent about the advice they are getting, the strategy they are setting and the data they are working on. You're right, VC, that these are very delicate judgement calls. But they have run the government like a PR operation: opaque about the scientific advice (so that the wider scientific community can't peer review and validate or correct it); inconsistent about the rules around the lockdown and the thresholds for easing it (we plainly haven't met the conditions the government stipulated in terms of tracing and testing; not to mention the backpedalling on what the advice meant when they needed to absolve Cummings); opaque and sometimes downright dishonest about the stats.
I believe the British public has proved to be more responsible and more grown-up about this threat than the government expected. Apart from a few libertarian idiots on the fringes, we understand the dangers and the complexity of this, and we're willing to make personal sacrifices for the common good. I think we'd have responded pretty well to a government that was transparent, levelled with us about the dilemmas, laid out the scientific advice in full (making it clear that the information is incomplete and always changing) and explained the strategy behind regulations (again making it clear that the strategy might change as the facts did).
Failure to do this, on top of the initial catastrophic failure to lock down early enough (which paradoxically leads to a longer, more economically costly lockdown) has cost many, many lives. And I'm afraid the erosion of trust in the government will result in many more, because clarity of message and collective confidence in it is crucial in getting through this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Unfortunately RR I think you are giving the general public way too much credit.
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
The other big disaster looming is the delayed treatment and diagnosis for other illnesses.
Cancer patients in particular.
The effects of this pandemic are going to be long lasting.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’d like to know if other countries round Europe have done this too. The only reason we did is because of the austerity affects inflicted on the NHS for an entire decade. We had no ability to juggle Covid patients and other illnesses at the same time.
Sign in if you want to comment
Sweden had it wrong
Page 4 of 7
6 | 7
posted on 3/6/20
comment by Constantinople (U11781)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 12 minutes ago
I feel sorry for any government having to deal with this.
However, any real sympathy I had for our government disappeared when they confirmed they'd rather openly and brazenly lie to us, rather than just be honest and humble.
There should be no focus on image when dealing with a pandemic.
It was a disgusting moment and I will never forgive them for that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe you’re refereeing to the Dominic Cummings fiasco?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What else!
posted on 3/6/20
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by dunc manson... you must follow ole... you must follow ole (U11713)
posted 1 minute ago
i dont understand why people are shocked about lies... politicians make a living out of it.
they lie to get into power, and then lie when they are in regardless of which party you choose to vote for.
as i said before, yes mistakes have been made, but lets be honest, regardless of who was in charge mistakes would have happened and lives would have been lost.
the british public really didnt help the situation either.
ive seen gatherings myself during the lockdown period and you only have to watch the news to see the mass gatherings that have taken place over the weekend despite social distancing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s a cop out Dink. So politicians lie and everyone makes mistakes.. how many people need to die from these mistakes before the government is held accountable?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
its not a kop out mate, unfortunately it is what it is.
could lives have been saved? of course they could have and in an ideal world there would have been no deaths, but this whole pandemic has caught the world out, not just the British Government.
Regardless of who was in charge they were walking into the unknown, and it was never going to end well.
posted on 3/6/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 12 minutes ago
comment by Automatic For The People #BLM (U21889)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 9 seconds ago
I feel sorry for any government having to deal with this.
However, any real sympathy I had for our government disappeared when they confirmed they'd rather openly and brazenly lie to us, rather than just be honest and humble.
There should be no focus on image when dealing with a pandemic.
It was a disgusting moment and I will never forgive them for that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
AND didn’t bother observing the rules themselves.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeh, it was poor but I can see how these things happen and I think the modelling accounts for this.
But to openly lie. To come up with a story so ridiculous, you'd send your child to their room for thinking they could lie their way out of it like that... and to apparently be beyond reproach for that lie.
Well, it just speaks for their [lack of] integrity.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No integrity and no credibility.
posted on 3/6/20
comment by dunc manson... you must follow ole... you must follow ole (U11713)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by dunc manson... you must follow ole... you must follow ole (U11713)
posted 1 minute ago
i dont understand why people are shocked about lies... politicians make a living out of it.
they lie to get into power, and then lie when they are in regardless of which party you choose to vote for.
as i said before, yes mistakes have been made, but lets be honest, regardless of who was in charge mistakes would have happened and lives would have been lost.
the british public really didnt help the situation either.
ive seen gatherings myself during the lockdown period and you only have to watch the news to see the mass gatherings that have taken place over the weekend despite social distancing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s a cop out Dink. So politicians lie and everyone makes mistakes.. how many people need to die from these mistakes before the government is held accountable?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
its not a kop out mate, unfortunately it is what it is.
could lives have been saved? of course they could have and in an ideal world there would have been no deaths, but this whole pandemic has caught the world out, not just the British Government.
Regardless of who was in charge they were walking into the unknown, and it was never going to end well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It wasn’t the unknown though, we had weeks of warnings that the government chose to ignore.
posted on 3/6/20
comment by Automatic For The People #BLM (U21889)
posted 51 seconds ago
comment by dunc manson... you must follow ole... you must follow ole (U11713)
posted 4 minutes ago
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by dunc manson... you must follow ole... you must follow ole (U11713)
posted 1 minute ago
i dont understand why people are shocked about lies... politicians make a living out of it.
they lie to get into power, and then lie when they are in regardless of which party you choose to vote for.
as i said before, yes mistakes have been made, but lets be honest, regardless of who was in charge mistakes would have happened and lives would have been lost.
the british public really didnt help the situation either.
ive seen gatherings myself during the lockdown period and you only have to watch the news to see the mass gatherings that have taken place over the weekend despite social distancing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s a cop out Dink. So politicians lie and everyone makes mistakes.. how many people need to die from these mistakes before the government is held accountable?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
its not a kop out mate, unfortunately it is what it is.
could lives have been saved? of course they could have and in an ideal world there would have been no deaths, but this whole pandemic has caught the world out, not just the British Government.
Regardless of who was in charge they were walking into the unknown, and it was never going to end well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
It wasn’t the unknown though, we had weeks of warnings that the government chose to ignore.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly. So many avoidable mistakes made at the start which loads of us plebs on here were talking about. Yet the government didn’t act on the obvious things.
posted on 3/6/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Constantinople (U11781)
posted 2 minutes ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 12 minutes ago
I feel sorry for any government having to deal with this.
However, any real sympathy I had for our government disappeared when they confirmed they'd rather openly and brazenly lie to us, rather than just be honest and humble.
There should be no focus on image when dealing with a pandemic.
It was a disgusting moment and I will never forgive them for that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe you’re refereeing to the Dominic Cummings fiasco?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What else!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The fiasco, according to the polls, which dented the confidence the populace have in the PM and government. They dug their own graves and I’ve no sympathy for them.
They’re the only government in Europe who have been on the defensive with everything about the pandemic and haven’t owned up to any mistake.
posted on 3/6/20
In fairness, they didn't ignore anything.
They just stuck with their original plan for too long.
posted on 3/6/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 minutes ago
In fairness, they didn't ignore anything.
They just stuck with their original plan for too long.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They ignored hundreds of independent scientists who told them their modelling and strategy was wrong.
posted on 3/6/20
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 minutes ago
In fairness, they didn't ignore anything.
They just stuck with their original plan for too long.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They ignored hundreds of independent scientists who told them their modelling and strategy was wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, and they should admit that their decisions have - it would seem - been the wrong ones.
But I think there's a danger of some misinterpretation of events happening when the mud starts flying.
posted on 3/6/20
The care homes debacle will be the great tragedy that this leaves behind (all deaths have been a tragedy before anyone starts). We have lost more in care homes than anywhere else.
A lot of investigation will be needed as to what happened in the care home system and why and how the virus was allowed to run rampant in that setting.
My opinion is that governments were so focused on their respective Health services capacities (ie hospitals, ICU, field hospitals etc) that care homes and their occupants were simply forgotten about and if the truth is something similar it will be the great crime from this whole sorry situation.
posted on 3/6/20
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 45 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 3 minutes ago
In fairness, they didn't ignore anything.
They just stuck with their original plan for too long.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
They ignored hundreds of independent scientists who told them their modelling and strategy was wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Problme with that is there is always someone with a different opinion.
They was also scientists telling them to do it the way they did.
Same with the relaxing of the Lockdown, some SAGE members are saying its too early and others not.
The media will only pick up and report the bad and negative news.
posted on 3/6/20
Aren't care homes privately run though?
posted on 3/6/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 23 seconds ago
Aren't care homes privately run though?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont know Winston and my knowledge of UK ones is even less. I just feel that what happened in that setting will leave a memory that will linger for a long time.
posted on 3/6/20
comment by dunc manson... you must follow ole... you must... (U11713)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by dunc manson... you must follow ole... you must follow ole (U11713)
posted 1 minute ago
i dont understand why people are shocked about lies... politicians make a living out of it.
they lie to get into power, and then lie when they are in regardless of which party you choose to vote for.
as i said before, yes mistakes have been made, but lets be honest, regardless of who was in charge mistakes would have happened and lives would have been lost.
the british public really didnt help the situation either.
ive seen gatherings myself during the lockdown period and you only have to watch the news to see the mass gatherings that have taken place over the weekend despite social distancing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s a cop out Dink. So politicians lie and everyone makes mistakes.. how many people need to die from these mistakes before the government is held accountable?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
its not a kop out mate, unfortunately it is what it is.
could lives have been saved? of course they could have and in an ideal world there would have been no deaths, but this whole pandemic has caught the world out, not just the British Government.
Regardless of who was in charge they were walking into the unknown, and it was never going to end well.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sir Kier would have done a lot better of course, hurrah for the flat caps
posted on 3/6/20
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 23 seconds ago
Aren't care homes privately run though?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont know Winston and my knowledge of UK ones is even less. I just feel that what happened in that setting will leave a memory that will linger for a long time.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh I agree entirely.
I just don't know whether we can hold the government solely responsible for that.
posted on 3/6/20
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 1 minute ago
The care homes debacle will be the great tragedy that this leaves behind (all deaths have been a tragedy before anyone starts). We have lost more in care homes than anywhere else.
A lot of investigation will be needed as to what happened in the care home system and why and how the virus was allowed to run rampant in that setting.
My opinion is that governments were so focused on their respective Health services capacities (ie hospitals, ICU, field hospitals etc) that care homes and their occupants were simply forgotten about and if the truth is something similar it will be the great crime from this whole sorry situation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep, being discharged into care homes without any sort of testing was a recipe for disaster.
posted on 3/6/20
The government lie so much there really is no point listening to them any more. Everything they say is done to cover cracks and try to show themselves in a better light.
I'd have a modicum of respect for them if they admitted their errors, but they continue to delude themselves into thinking they're doing a good job.
It's absolutely no surprise we're recovering so slowly compared to our European counterparts. Just had a look at Spain's statistics, as they're a good example of a country initially hit very hard. 2 weeks ago their deaths were in the 50s and 60s each day (given we're supposedly 2 weeks behind them I thought that's a decent comparison) Their curve dramatically fell, ours is just plateauing with hundreds of deaths a day still.
The government's incompetence and cowardly lies are infuriating.
posted on 3/6/20
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-care-homes-nhs-hospital-discharges-deaths-a9544671.html
posted on 3/6/20
comment by Dave&Danny (U4428)
posted 5 minutes ago
comment by dunc manson... you must follow ole... you must... (U11713)
posted 16 minutes ago
comment by Robb Sancho (U22311)
posted 1 minute ago
comment by dunc manson... you must follow ole... you must follow ole (U11713)
posted 1 minute ago
i dont understand why people are shocked about lies... politicians make a living out of it.
they lie to get into power, and then lie when they are in regardless of which party you choose to vote for.
as i said before, yes mistakes have been made, but lets be honest, regardless of who was in charge mistakes would have happened and lives would have been lost.
the british public really didnt help the situation either.
ive seen gatherings myself during the lockdown period and you only have to watch the news to see the mass gatherings that have taken place over the weekend despite social distancing.
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That’s a cop out Dink. So politicians lie and everyone makes mistakes.. how many people need to die from these mistakes before the government is held accountable?
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its not a kop out mate, unfortunately it is what it is.
could lives have been saved? of course they could have and in an ideal world there would have been no deaths, but this whole pandemic has caught the world out, not just the British Government.
Regardless of who was in charge they were walking into the unknown, and it was never going to end well.
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Sir Kier would have done a lot better of course, hurrah for the flat caps
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No homophobic remark this time eh? Cretin.
posted on 3/6/20
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 51 minutes ago
Whilst at times the government have listened to the science, this has not always been the case (current loosening of restrictions a recent example).
......
I agree with the rest of your comment. This bit iI agree with but again he is trying to do a balancing act with getting the country running again and the loss of life.
We can not say locked down for ever. I know the Labour supporters among you won’t agree with this but I kind of feel sorry for the Govt here. They will be damned if they do and damned if they don’t.
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What they can be is transparent about the advice they are getting, the strategy they are setting and the data they are working on. You're right, VC, that these are very delicate judgement calls. But they have run the government like a PR operation: opaque about the scientific advice (so that the wider scientific community can't peer review and validate or correct it); inconsistent about the rules around the lockdown and the thresholds for easing it (we plainly haven't met the conditions the government stipulated in terms of tracing and testing; not to mention the backpedalling on what the advice meant when they needed to absolve Cummings); opaque and sometimes downright dishonest about the stats.
I believe the British public has proved to be more responsible and more grown-up about this threat than the government expected. Apart from a few libertarian idiots on the fringes, we understand the dangers and the complexity of this, and we're willing to make personal sacrifices for the common good. I think we'd have responded pretty well to a government that was transparent, levelled with us about the dilemmas, laid out the scientific advice in full (making it clear that the information is incomplete and always changing) and explained the strategy behind regulations (again making it clear that the strategy might change as the facts did).
Failure to do this, on top of the initial catastrophic failure to lock down early enough (which paradoxically leads to a longer, more economically costly lockdown) has cost many, many lives. And I'm afraid the erosion of trust in the government will result in many more, because clarity of message and collective confidence in it is crucial in getting through this.
posted on 3/6/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 8 minutes ago
comment by Irishred (U2539)
posted 9 seconds ago
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 23 seconds ago
Aren't care homes privately run though?
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I dont know Winston and my knowledge of UK ones is even less. I just feel that what happened in that setting will leave a memory that will linger for a long time.
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Oh I agree entirely.
I just don't know whether we can hold the government solely responsible for that.
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Agree on the government point also they cannot be held 100% accountable for that part.
posted on 3/6/20
The other big disaster looming is the delayed treatment and diagnosis for other illnesses.
Cancer patients in particular.
The effects of this pandemic are going to be long lasting.
posted on 3/6/20
On a separate note you lads have the title Royal in some amount of hospitals.
I am currently setting up pricing master data for English hospitals and the amount with the word Royal!!!
posted on 3/6/20
comment by Red Russian (U4715)
posted 3 minutes ago
comment by Vidicschin (U3584)
posted 51 minutes ago
Whilst at times the government have listened to the science, this has not always been the case (current loosening of restrictions a recent example).
......
I agree with the rest of your comment. This bit iI agree with but again he is trying to do a balancing act with getting the country running again and the loss of life.
We can not say locked down for ever. I know the Labour supporters among you won’t agree with this but I kind of feel sorry for the Govt here. They will be damned if they do and damned if they don’t.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What they can be is transparent about the advice they are getting, the strategy they are setting and the data they are working on. You're right, VC, that these are very delicate judgement calls. But they have run the government like a PR operation: opaque about the scientific advice (so that the wider scientific community can't peer review and validate or correct it); inconsistent about the rules around the lockdown and the thresholds for easing it (we plainly haven't met the conditions the government stipulated in terms of tracing and testing; not to mention the backpedalling on what the advice meant when they needed to absolve Cummings); opaque and sometimes downright dishonest about the stats.
I believe the British public has proved to be more responsible and more grown-up about this threat than the government expected. Apart from a few libertarian idiots on the fringes, we understand the dangers and the complexity of this, and we're willing to make personal sacrifices for the common good. I think we'd have responded pretty well to a government that was transparent, levelled with us about the dilemmas, laid out the scientific advice in full (making it clear that the information is incomplete and always changing) and explained the strategy behind regulations (again making it clear that the strategy might change as the facts did).
Failure to do this, on top of the initial catastrophic failure to lock down early enough (which paradoxically leads to a longer, more economically costly lockdown) has cost many, many lives. And I'm afraid the erosion of trust in the government will result in many more, because clarity of message and collective confidence in it is crucial in getting through this.
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Unfortunately RR I think you are giving the general public way too much credit.
posted on 3/6/20
comment by Winston (U16525)
posted 2 minutes ago
The other big disaster looming is the delayed treatment and diagnosis for other illnesses.
Cancer patients in particular.
The effects of this pandemic are going to be long lasting.
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I’d like to know if other countries round Europe have done this too. The only reason we did is because of the austerity affects inflicted on the NHS for an entire decade. We had no ability to juggle Covid patients and other illnesses at the same time.
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