The article feels like it’s describing a symptom rather than the problem to me. Study of our style is likely only a component part of this, together with injuries to key players, overconfidence from the manager regarding his squad’s strength and adaptability, young players losing form and the ineffective rotation that’s come with all of that. Essentially, I think a greater problem has been lack of coordination and understanding between the players. Having fewer swift attacks comes from that naturally.

Not that any of that will help us against Everton as it takes a while to sort out. I can understand why he’s recommending his proposed bet.

comment by The_Dungeon_Master (U4830)
posted 1 minute ago
The article feels like it’s describing a symptom rather than the problem to me. Study of our style is likely only a component part of this, together with injuries to key players, overconfidence from the manager regarding his squad’s strength and adaptability, young players losing form and the ineffective rotation that’s come with all of that. Essentially, I think a greater problem has been lack of coordination and understanding between the players. Having fewer swift attacks comes from that naturally.

Not that any of that will help us against Everton as it takes a while to sort out. I can understand why he’s recommending his proposed bet.
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The stats make for painfully similar reading to the drop off with Ranieri and eventually Puel - with in the end similar results.

I do feel a sense of history repeating here, the obvious difference with Ranieri being that we were never good on the ball. Ultimately - these stats show that when teams change their approach (as Brighton did) and concede possession, Leicester completely run out of ideas

I can’t really think of a team we have beaten who sat in and defended if I’m honest

I think this tells the story perfectly - particularly with. Andy in the side and the pace we have out wide - we are essentially still much better as a counterattacking side, something that’s easily countered in itself

When it stops working, I actually think the other things you mention there Dunge start to manifest themselves as the manager attempts to change things without success

Aren’t you getting a sense of Deja Vu here?

Exactly as teams did against us under his reign

Isn’t this article a bit dramatic?

You’re third in the league

comment by palmers_spur (U8896)
posted 1 minute ago
Isn’t this article a bit dramatic?

You’re third in the league
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The Sky Sports News article? Not really it’s talking about form - we’ve been 3rd in the league for months. We were 15 points clear in December, about to be overtaken and have won 1 in 7

Rodgers teams do seem to full into a pattern of pushing opponents into deep compact blocks, and then struggling to break them down causing unpredictable patches of form. It's hard to say whether it's Rodgers or the players he has but it is a theme. No one match crystallizes it better than the Gerrard slip, we had a reserve team out that day & in fantastic form with everything to play for Liverpool just weren't good enough to break us down that day.

I do think you'd be insane to even think about replacing Rodgers, the fact his teams demonstrate a pattern of pushing opposition back no matter who he's managing - Swansea, Liverpool, Celtic or Leicester - shows a manager who knows how to impose his will tactically (which is rare), but it is something for him to work on.

palmers - I don’t think it is overly dramatic to be fair, given how we’re plummeting down the table points-wise and not looking close to stopping that. Meanwhile the teams below us - now only just below us instead of miles away - don’t look like dropping points either.

I’m all for pointing out how football and form can be unpredictable but we look well off the pace. This current run is reminiscent of a Championship season a few years back when we looked set for automatic promotion and then dropped like a stone.

Sometimes players have to go through that to harden them up; unfortunately we have a lot of players at our club who need hardening up at this point in time.

comment by The_Dungeon_Master (U4830)
posted 7 hours, 54 minutes ago
palmers - I don’t think it is overly dramatic to be fair, given how we’re plummeting down the table points-wise and not looking close to stopping that. Meanwhile the teams below us - now only just below us instead of miles away - don’t look like dropping points either.

I’m all for pointing out how football and form can be unpredictable but we look well off the pace. This current run is reminiscent of a Championship season a few years back when we looked set for automatic promotion and then dropped like a stone.

Sometimes players have to go through that to harden them up; unfortunately we have a lot of players at our club who need hardening up at this point in time.
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I certainly agree that players are out of form - but I’ll be honest Dunge, the likes of Chilwell and Maddison will be taking their hard knocks to their new respective clubs if this continues. It won’t benefit Leicester

To me there are too many similarities to what has gone on before that I think you’re ignoring. New managers starting with a bang (even Puel) before either the slow fade or dropping like a stone. A period of feast followed by absolute famine as clubs adopt their tactics to stop the one thing we’ve always had - the fast counterattack

The stats pre 2020 and post 2020 are absolutely stark. For all our possession based qualities - Leicester are a club that are still bred to score goals in the same way as they did in 2016. Vardy leading the line and using the pace out wide to break quickly and punish opponents

It’s history repeating - it started with Norwich at home, clubs conceding possession completely, adopting a defensive mentality and leaving Vardy no space. That leads to a run of gamers where we look like we have no ideas and it start to spiral - confidence is affected, players get frustrated, Rodgers plays with the tactics etc

If you think about it - it was entirely predictable

It'll be fine.

Maddison returns tonight to the No.10 role in our tried and trusted 4-1-4-1. We get a couple of first half goals, spank Everton and it's game on!!

Failing that, B.S is probably right.

But I'm optimistic, i'm giving them a chance tonight.

But if it was the case that we only have one weapon which can be easily found out, how come new managers /can/ start with a bang? If the swift counterattack is spotted and plugged, what happens with each new manager that suddenly unplugs it again?

All the best for tonight boys, hope you smash the living sh!te out of them!👍🏻

comment by The_Dungeon_Master (U4830)
posted 1 hour, 21 minutes ago
But if it was the case that we only have one weapon which can be easily found out, how come new managers /can/ start with a bang? If the swift counterattack is spotted and plugged, what happens with each new manager that suddenly unplugs it again?
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Am I over simplifying this in saying it’s purely just needing variation in our play? Rodgers being rigid to the passing and slow build up from the back is a problem when you get a narrow deep block.

This also negates the counter and Vardy in behind.

Press our defence and you have the perfect storm!

So, isn’t the answer that when teams do that, change it up??? Rodgers seemed to be doing this mid game at one point with Everton at home being a case in point. But then seemed to stop.

If teams play narrow, why don’t we play with width? Push our fullbacks on and get balls out wide and fast. This will stretch the defence and create space for Vardy.

If that’s too open, switch to 3 at the back and really push our fullbacks on.

If that doesn’t work, get Albrighton and Fuchs on and simply wang balls in to the box from anywhere!!!

I joke at the end, but a serious point is that when plan A wasn’t working we seemed to have plan b and c. Now we seem to have plan A, a poorer version of plan A, and a desperate version of plan A.

We need a plan B again. For me it has to be widrh as a deep narrow block can stop our two biggest weapons of playing in behind or through the lines.

Problem is that Chilewell couldn’t cross a ballot paper and Justin looks devoid of confidence after the restart.

Now I’m depressed again.

comment by The_Dungeon_Master (U4830)
posted 14 minutes ago
But if it was the case that we only have one weapon which can be easily found out, how come new managers /can/ start with a bang? If the swift counterattack is spotted and plugged, what happens with each new manager that suddenly unplugs it again?
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Really good question which I think Mersey partly answers in his above post.

What I think happens is this;

- Leicester are predominantly still a counter attacking force. But it’ was absolutely been recognised by the club that playing like the title winning team wasn’t a sustainable long term plan when it was so effectively nullified in Ranieris second season

- The longer term plan involved a process of changing the club ethos to investing in youth while changing the way we play

- The problem Leicester have is that with Vardy in the side and the pace out wide, they are still at their most effective when winning the ball and breaking quickly. The majority of our goals still come from that as shown in the stats

- So a familiar pattern repeats itself again and again and it started with Ranieri. The outgoing manager tries to change the way we play because the counter attack is being nullified and tries to bring young players in

- Young players are notoriously inconsistent and the outgoing manager is struggling to counter teams sitting back and nullifying Leicester. Other teams know we are now more dominant with the ball, and they will let us have it, because they know we are only dangerous when breaking ourselves. After a while the players get demoralised and the intensity starts to drop

- Outgoing manager loses the faith of the players because his tactics aren’t effective (and he keeps changing them) and after some time even the counter attacks aren’t working anymore! The players are broken in spirit essentially - takes months but we have seen it before.

- Incoming manager comes in and breathes new life into the players. Gives them their belief back and brings back the intensity and the pressing, everything that’s dropped off. Now with intensity and pressing and that belief - even against teams that sit back, Leicester are a very compelling proposition - the problem is, it isn’t sustainable for a variety of reasons.

- Teams are a little shaken up by the new intensity and pressing, also Leicester’s lethal counter is back and when they lose the ball they get punished. What do they do? Leicester have been rubbish for about half a season now and they’ve been used to watching them knock the ball sideways with Vardy getting no service

- What do they do? Double back down on the deep defensive block, give Maddison no time, Vardy no space. Gradually it starts making a difference. Vardy gets less touches, the draws start piling up, the manager switches the tactics etc etc

- Where I agree with Mersey is that every outgoing manager struggles with the same thing - a plan b. Could be getting that player signed who can unlock the door. Could be using width more effectively. Could be varying our play in other ways. But they don’t - they play tactical merry go around with the same style of play

- The other problem is we don’t enough variety to bring off the bench to tackle teams sitting back. The likes of Albrighton and Choudhury aren’t the answer

- Eventually players get disillusioned and the manager gets sacked before a new incoming manager starts the circle all over again

I had Elton Johns circle of life in my head as a typed that.

I think that's a very accurate summation of what happens.

I suppose my point (and maybe yours as well and I'm misunderstanding here) is that we have to find a way of breaking that cycle. I view the place to break it as being where the intensity and the pressing disappear.

Those things should come as standard these days. They're things that Liverpool have in abundance. Chelsea are full of energy - they run out of gas sometimes but they go 100% while they can. Man City have some brilliant footballers playing beautiful passing moves, but their pressing game is phenomenal and absolutely demanded. i.e. I know that we're talking top, top teams here, but if that work ethic is accepted and demanded by the top teams then there's no reason why our players shouldn't hold the same standards. Some do of course, but others look like they allow the situation to get to them too much and don't contribute to the team efforts of pressing and linking fast-moving attacks that test your technique. There have been too many... not hiding so much as not contributing and appreciating that they need to be on it 100% of the time in the modern league. (Harvey Barnes, I'm looking in your direction...)

My concern is that if we don't try to break the cycle there, with an entire club ethos that intensity and concentration is demanded for the entirety of your time on the pitch, then the options become either to replace the manager (starting the cycle again, if any decent manager would want to touch us) or replace Vardy (killing the golden goose and plunging into the unknown). And both of those seem to me to be over-simple answers with potentially disastrous consequences.

comment by Black Starr (U12353)
posted 8 minutes ago
I had Elton Johns circle of life in my head as a typed that.


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To be fair, I have that in my head at most times.

comment by The_Dungeon_Master (U4830)
posted 3 minutes ago
I think that's a very accurate summation of what happens.

I suppose my point (and maybe yours as well and I'm misunderstanding here) is that we have to find a way of breaking that cycle. I view the place to break it as being where the intensity and the pressing disappear.

Those things should come as standard these days. They're things that Liverpool have in abundance. Chelsea are full of energy - they run out of gas sometimes but they go 100% while they can. Man City have some brilliant footballers playing beautiful passing moves, but their pressing game is phenomenal and absolutely demanded. i.e. I know that we're talking top, top teams here, but if that work ethic is accepted and demanded by the top teams then there's no reason why our players shouldn't hold the same standards. Some do of course, but others look like they allow the situation to get to them too much and don't contribute to the team efforts of pressing and linking fast-moving attacks that test your technique. There have been too many... not hiding so much as not contributing and appreciating that they need to be on it 100% of the time in the modern league. (Harvey Barnes, I'm looking in your direction...)

My concern is that if we don't try to break the cycle there, with an entire club ethos that intensity and concentration is demanded for the entirety of your time on the pitch, then the options become either to replace the manager (starting the cycle again, if any decent manager would want to touch us) or replace Vardy (killing the golden goose and plunging into the unknown). And both of those seem to me to be over-simple answers with potentially disastrous consequences.
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I think we’re essentially saying the same thing there in terms of what I would call the boom and bust of Leicester post title years. And the pressing and intensity is absolutely key.

What I believe happened is that the club made too much of a dramatic shift too quickly. So the club ethos of moving from a counter attacking side with pace to a possession based team is fine if you keep that pressing, urgency and work level. It’s why Guardiola and Pochettino are so successful. Who is their managerial guru? Marcelo Bielsa - a guy I wanted us to go for after Puel

With the appointment of Puel though, the board went for a manager whose style isn’t one of urgency at all. Puel coached all the urgency out of these players. Very simply put - there are very few managers in the world that can successfully integrate pressing, intensity, top players and possession football for sustained periods. Those managers are at top clubs

That leads me on to Brendan. His issue (as is the issue with many of our outgoing managers) is he has lost the urgency and intent he first brought in. He’s lost it because when performance levels dropped (and they do at all teams) and when teams started to make life difficult - he allowed the players intensity to drop and he also didn’t find a plan B

That’s what he needs to do now. Bring the urgency back, the pressing the intensity and if when we win the ball back we can’t break through - vary the style of play. If he cracks that - what no one at Leicester has - he will succeed. If he doesn’t, the circle will start again next season

Ok, so I think we’re all agreeing we can see the problem and solution.

Easy to say, hard to do springs to mind!

Yep, I think we're all agreed:

Throw Morgan up front for the last 5 minutes and see what happens.

Leicester City 2-0 down. I had given up hope of us catching Leicester City many months back. I thought 3rd place was near guaranteed for you. If you keep dropping points at the rate you have been doing then the battle for 3rd to 6th will be fierce.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50908725
We were 14 points behind at the start of the year first game in 2020 with 17 games left and +20GD difference.

As things stand it will be 3 points and +6GD difference. Insane when you think of it and if De Gea didn't do those howlers against Spurs and Everton we would be ahead.

comment by Posh Mufc Great Hafi Not Arrogant Just Better (U6578)
posted 35 minutes ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50908725
We were 14 points behind at the start of the year first game in 2020 with 17 games left and +20GD difference.

As things stand it will be 3 points and +6GD difference. Insane when you think of it and if De Gea didn't do those howlers against Spurs and Everton we would be ahead.
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Yes your 17 gifted penalties have certainly made a difference

We should have had a lot more penalties. I am tempted to make a video of VAR decisions that have affected us this season.

That Leicester City vs Man Utd game now is looking big.

comment by Posh Mufc Great Hafi Not Arrogant Just Better (U6578)
posted 1 minute ago
That Leicester City vs Man Utd game now is looking big.
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How do you make that out?!

You’ll be 10 points clear of us by the time that comes around