Decent results wise but not great stylistically, especially when winning.
If i didn't know and was told to guess who he was assistant under i'd have said Simeone.
Good, Simeone was exactly what we needed. You can't expect someone to take a group of players and totally change the way they play overnight. The squad doesn't have a good balance, and to sacrifice style to get results is a positive for Mr Arteta at this stage.
Fair enough, it was quite surreal watching the Arsenal vs Chelsea games this season though mind, in terms of pattern of play you pretty much swapped roles from the Wenger vs Jose/Ancelotti/the rest era.
comment by Bazg (U22412)
posted 9 minutes ago
Decent results wise but not great stylistically, especially when winning.
If i didn't know and was told to guess who he was assistant under i'd have said Simeone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I said it about Ole for a long time and the same will be true for Arteta - sometimes it's hard to recognise the manager's plan and style when the players he has are not capable of delivering what is being asked of them.
Arteta will be embarking on a journey that enables him to identify which players can carry out his plan and which can't, and he'll need at least 18 months to even start getting the team to where he wants it.
It's hard when a club is struggling but patience is the key imo.
His appointment brought back some much needed energy to a club that had been drifting for too long.
Risky? Yes. But that alone brings with it a certain spark.
Yes, the football has been unspectacular at times, but this is hardly surprising given the circumstances. But, as Winston says, patience will be needed.
Perhaps any new manager's biggest challenges of all...
What's very obvious is the buy-in from the players
Whether they have simply been briefed to say it, or if they mean it, how often do we see these players talking about the process?
I think he's done a good job. Aubamayang aside your team is generally of midtable quality.
Seems like he has more of a plan than Emery did this season.
The style of play hasn't been that coherent or consistent (partially due to injuries/lack of the correct personnel), but we have scored some very good goals resulting from building attacks from the back e.g. Xhaka's yesterday.
Nketiah and Aubameyang's goals against Southampton and Norwich respectively also signify that our strikers are pressing from the front and looking to capitalise on tardiness from opposition goalkeepers. We didn't really see this level of aggression or tenacity in our game pre-Arteta.
Statistically, the players are running more, conceding less and facing less shots than before. We're obviously struggling for creativity, but that's partially because we don't have anyone who can create - well, we do, but I think it's clear he's not in Arteta's plans...
It's noticeable that a lot of our goals have stemmed from errors from the opposition, individual moments of magic, set-pieces or counter-attacks.
We need to do better at creating chances when we're dominating possession in general play, in my opinion. Hopefully this is an area we can fix.
I know we've had more midfielders on the scoresheet in recent weeks. However, the lack of goals from midfield has to be rectified too.
Overall, he's done a good job. We just have to hope he's supported in the transfer market this Summer...
One thing that surprises me the most since Wenger is that both Emery and Arteta are eventually forced to play a style of football and/or formation that's out of their comfort zone and dampening their strenghts. Arteta now (and Emery back then) is just playing for survival, not trying to build a template for a dominating, title winning team. Unlike a Klopp, Guardiola and dare I say even Solskjaer who still kept a majority of their routines in their first years, but made some humbling adjustments to not ship as much goals as they did.
If you dont plan to back the manager (either not willing or lacking funds), you might as well have appointed someone in the mould of Big Sam or Mourinho. With Auba, Pepe, Laca, Saka and this midfield we're basically a rich mans counter attacking squad lacking 1-2 big sturdy defenders...
The questions will be how well the board can deliver what Arteta wants and how patient the fans will be. Arsenal have some players who you think should be better than what they have been for Arsenal (or in some cases, injuries haven't helped).
The other thing is that those not up to the task will be moved on. Some may take more time to do so because of wages. Fans can be impatient when some take longer to offload than other players.
I've seen enough to be encouraged.
Defensively, we're actually not too bad from open play. Teams aren't just bustling through the centre of our team anymore. Its set pieces, giving away of stupid penalties and red cards that remain the biggest problem.
I did expect more from an attacking perspective, but when nearly 100m worth of players in ozil and lacazette are contributing as little as they are, maybe it shouldn't be a surprise. Arteta has also had a fair amount of injuries to deal with.
One criticism I had of him were his substitutions, but credit to him, against Southampton and Sheff Utd, his subs helped us win the games. Maybe he's getting better at that?
He needs to be backed in the next transfer window.
I actually think a big problem will be the fans. I used to think we were quite a patient bunch but not anymore.
I blame AFTV for a lot of that as you hear them say "I will give him time but if he doesn't get top 4 then he must go". Thats a very contradictory statement that basically says immediate success or go.
That I believe has encouraged a lot of our fanbase to expect too much too quick.
When I say we should give him time, I am talking years not months.
If United had listened to a lot of their fans, Solksjaer would have been out 12 months ago. They have stuck with him and they are starting to see some improvements.
I actually think we should give Arteta 2/3 years even if we don't hit our targets immediately. If we do that then I don't think it will be long till we improve based on Arteta gaining more experience as a manager and building a squad more to his taste.
Samir, this...
"After using Mesut Ozil in most games before the break, Mr Arteta has not involved him since."
Is what explains this...
"Nketiah and Aubameyang's goals against Southampton and Norwich respectively also signify that our strikers are pressing from the front and looking to capitalise on tardiness from opposition goalkeepers. We didn't really see this level of aggression or tenacity in our game pre-Arteta."
EVERYONE behind them is now doing their bit, meaning they can. Also we did see this pre Arteta, last season, when the same man was frozen out. When Emery dropped him, one of the first things to happen was we started to press the ball effectively again. The hustle and the errors it forces makes the difference when your defence is as weak as ours.
DJ
So was he dropped or did he take himself out due to Covid and fasting? Only important to me regarding how Guendouzi has been handled. Either way, it actually got me to watch these soulless games. him not being there makes it semi enjoyable.
Liking what I'm seeing from the team but it's nothing I didn't expect given the above-mentioned. Not convinced we need as much transfer activity as some.
I think these current MFs could still flourish yet. Everyone is concerned about creativity given the team circumstances and theirs as youngsters, It hasn't been the time at AFC for creativity. Nelson and Willock in particular have had little chance to use that aspect of their play since we've lived under the kosh in games for ages. We're never really in control so it's easy for a less confident youngster, to just "Not risk itr for now, don't wanna be flash, I'll just keep it simple" Saka/Martinelli/Guendouzi totally different personalities to Willock/Nelson. The latter need to build and grow into their confidence. First three have oozed it since birth.
For now, you know what I want to see continue happening without it being said. Because it's led the way to these results. Even losing some games, the long-term curve will continue upward if it does. Also I want this Guendouzi/Arteta beef squashed quickly as well. Something Lex said the other day about giving Guen' the same as Ozil, got me thinking.
People have jumped on this discipline thing like they cared before Arteta said anything. Don't know what went on at other teams but my view here is it's not surprising he's acted up as much as he has, forced to sit on the bench watching Ozil thinking "I KNOW I could do better than that crap." And he could. No he can't split the atom with a pass like Ozil can but all around he offers MORE than him. So I see where he's coming from. Poorly handled yes but same could be said of Arteta here I think. Not every arrogant kid can be dealt with this way. Some need the responsibility to make the step as opposed to being told make the step and you get the responsibility.
I think Guen is one of those. We know he can handle the responsibility when it drops to him, to the point we've seen him take the initiative, grab the responsibility when nobody wanted it and lead his team. So let him lead it (match tactically I mean, not captain yet). Whatever growing he has to do will happen real fast when he's forced to be a grown up because HE has to set an example.
Guen is the closest thing to Viera we've had since Viera. Seem to remember him having a fair few naughty step moments also. We have to build the future because we can't buy it and Guen is the key player to build the future MF around. IMO the only current MF up to that role. And at a time at AFC where nobody actually wants that responsibility in MF, he is screaming for it. That alone tells me he's ready to be given it and I think it'll work well. Both on that page, Arteta can teach him and he's capable of learning, the finer points of MF play, ON the job. So I hope this naughty step approach from Arteta doesn't go on for long. Personally I think that Guen deserved a little more credit about his value on the pitch, than he's been given here. Actually don't think Arteta would take this approach had he been a part of AFC last season and seen more of Guen from that perspective. He was busy watching City players and wouldn't exactly have had to spend long with game tapes for the games against us. In fact I doubt they even bothered to watch any
For me arteta has made us more solid, especially at the back. However, as many have already suggested, the style of football is very turgid and similar level to what Emery had
The majority of the attacks come from the flanks with less emphasis on a playmaker to make the difference through the middle.
Saying that, we still need a midfielder who can control a game and provide for the attack.
Willock, AMN and Co are not the answer
Will be interesting to see what arteta buys in the summer
comment by Castor Troy (U8700)
posted 7 minutes ago
For me arteta has made us more solid, especially at the back. However, as many have already suggested, the style of football is very turgid and similar level to what Emery had
The majority of the attacks come from the flanks with less emphasis on a playmaker to make the difference through the middle.
Saying that, we still need a midfielder who can control a game and provide for the attack.
Willock, AMN and Co are not the answer
Will be interesting to see what arteta buys in the summer
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The answer is an Arteta trained Guendouzi. He will provide the same work rate as the other three whilst becoming the playmaker naturally. Not every playmaker does it the way Ozil does, thank god. Guen doesn't need anywhere near Ozil's passing range because he runs the ball so much more.
I also still like Ceballos for the No 10 role if he's staying another year. I think we could build around him if we bought him but see Guen as the natural leader that'll thrive faster. Either one of them for me, is enough for now, whilst we sort the defence. I don't want to see another window where we get an MF or attacker when it's our defence that's dire.
Fix the defence permanently first. THEN we can worry about buying a new flash git for MF, assuming that Ceballos or Guendouzi fails to step up in the meantime. Right now, what we need most is their energy and fight it MF. It's buys our defence the time they need to cope and forces errors which get us goals too. Also, the more familiar they all become as an Ozil free unit, is the more secure they will begin to feel about being creative and tricky. Much easier to risk losing the ball, when you're confident that if you do, you and ya boys can just go and hustle it back. Ozil on and near you and losing the ball could mean an 80yd counter attack and ball in net your end. Why because it was HIM who needed to go after that ball/man. Time for an in match comfort zone to develop and you might just start to see a little more flare in their play. Applies to Nelson in particular. He's way more talented than he's shown this season.
With games coming up against the top 3 and totteringham after 6th place Wolves our results under Arteta could well be worse than before him very soon.
Dont let a result against rock bottom Norwich fool you, we are not in a good place. Our football is slow and boring. Look at our away record under Arteta, 2 in (in an empty stadium), 3 draws and 2 loses. Not great.
Take the Brighton game, they sat deep and allowed us to have the ball in front of them and didnt allow any room or time once we hit their defensive lines. Compare that to Sheffield who let out players have room off the ball and closed them down once they received it. When Brighton got the ball they cut through our midfield quickly and with ease, which left our defence under massive pressure. Sheffield played a slower build up which gave us time to organise better. Both games were 1-1 at 90 minutes, but Brighton looked far better against us and the final results reflected that.
We are flat track bullies against poor teams who try to play their own game, but teams better than us or teams that stop us playing our game and we struggle.
With games coming up against the top 3 and totteringham after 6th place Wolves our results under Arteta could well be worse than before him very soon.
-----
Doubtful. He'll do better out of that lot than you think and end up lumbering us with EL again next year. Which is they LAST thing this team needs unfortunately.
20 years of a bad culture cannot be erased in one or even two seasons. He needs TIME and a patient fanbase backing him all the way. One day Arteta is going to win league titles,if we are stupid,it will be with another club.
I just reread my post and apolgise for all the typos. We have 1 away win under Arteta so far I typed "2 in"
comment by Tyke (U9181)
posted 2 hours, 27 minutes ago
20 years of a bad culture cannot be erased in one or even two seasons. He needs TIME and a patient fanbase backing him all the way. One day Arteta is going to win league titles,if we are stupid,it will be with another club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
erm, the Invincibles were only 16 years ago.
comment by Everywhere you go always take Lamela with you. (U7905)
posted 13 hours, 44 minutes ago
I think he's done a good job. Aubamayang aside your team is generally of midtable quality.
Seems like he has more of a plan than Emery did this season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Midtable quality u say yet their above your Bottlers in the league, what does that say about your Hapless club?
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The Mikel Arteta Reign so far...
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posted on 2/7/20
Decent results wise but not great stylistically, especially when winning.
If i didn't know and was told to guess who he was assistant under i'd have said Simeone.
posted on 2/7/20
Good, Simeone was exactly what we needed. You can't expect someone to take a group of players and totally change the way they play overnight. The squad doesn't have a good balance, and to sacrifice style to get results is a positive for Mr Arteta at this stage.
posted on 2/7/20
Fair enough, it was quite surreal watching the Arsenal vs Chelsea games this season though mind, in terms of pattern of play you pretty much swapped roles from the Wenger vs Jose/Ancelotti/the rest era.
posted on 2/7/20
comment by Bazg (U22412)
posted 9 minutes ago
Decent results wise but not great stylistically, especially when winning.
If i didn't know and was told to guess who he was assistant under i'd have said Simeone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I said it about Ole for a long time and the same will be true for Arteta - sometimes it's hard to recognise the manager's plan and style when the players he has are not capable of delivering what is being asked of them.
Arteta will be embarking on a journey that enables him to identify which players can carry out his plan and which can't, and he'll need at least 18 months to even start getting the team to where he wants it.
It's hard when a club is struggling but patience is the key imo.
posted on 2/7/20
His appointment brought back some much needed energy to a club that had been drifting for too long.
Risky? Yes. But that alone brings with it a certain spark.
Yes, the football has been unspectacular at times, but this is hardly surprising given the circumstances. But, as Winston says, patience will be needed.
Perhaps any new manager's biggest challenges of all...
posted on 2/7/20
What's very obvious is the buy-in from the players
Whether they have simply been briefed to say it, or if they mean it, how often do we see these players talking about the process?
posted on 2/7/20
I think he's done a good job. Aubamayang aside your team is generally of midtable quality.
Seems like he has more of a plan than Emery did this season.
posted on 2/7/20
The style of play hasn't been that coherent or consistent (partially due to injuries/lack of the correct personnel), but we have scored some very good goals resulting from building attacks from the back e.g. Xhaka's yesterday.
Nketiah and Aubameyang's goals against Southampton and Norwich respectively also signify that our strikers are pressing from the front and looking to capitalise on tardiness from opposition goalkeepers. We didn't really see this level of aggression or tenacity in our game pre-Arteta.
Statistically, the players are running more, conceding less and facing less shots than before. We're obviously struggling for creativity, but that's partially because we don't have anyone who can create - well, we do, but I think it's clear he's not in Arteta's plans...
It's noticeable that a lot of our goals have stemmed from errors from the opposition, individual moments of magic, set-pieces or counter-attacks.
We need to do better at creating chances when we're dominating possession in general play, in my opinion. Hopefully this is an area we can fix.
I know we've had more midfielders on the scoresheet in recent weeks. However, the lack of goals from midfield has to be rectified too.
Overall, he's done a good job. We just have to hope he's supported in the transfer market this Summer...
posted on 2/7/20
One thing that surprises me the most since Wenger is that both Emery and Arteta are eventually forced to play a style of football and/or formation that's out of their comfort zone and dampening their strenghts. Arteta now (and Emery back then) is just playing for survival, not trying to build a template for a dominating, title winning team. Unlike a Klopp, Guardiola and dare I say even Solskjaer who still kept a majority of their routines in their first years, but made some humbling adjustments to not ship as much goals as they did.
If you dont plan to back the manager (either not willing or lacking funds), you might as well have appointed someone in the mould of Big Sam or Mourinho. With Auba, Pepe, Laca, Saka and this midfield we're basically a rich mans counter attacking squad lacking 1-2 big sturdy defenders...
posted on 2/7/20
The questions will be how well the board can deliver what Arteta wants and how patient the fans will be. Arsenal have some players who you think should be better than what they have been for Arsenal (or in some cases, injuries haven't helped).
The other thing is that those not up to the task will be moved on. Some may take more time to do so because of wages. Fans can be impatient when some take longer to offload than other players.
posted on 2/7/20
I've seen enough to be encouraged.
Defensively, we're actually not too bad from open play. Teams aren't just bustling through the centre of our team anymore. Its set pieces, giving away of stupid penalties and red cards that remain the biggest problem.
I did expect more from an attacking perspective, but when nearly 100m worth of players in ozil and lacazette are contributing as little as they are, maybe it shouldn't be a surprise. Arteta has also had a fair amount of injuries to deal with.
One criticism I had of him were his substitutions, but credit to him, against Southampton and Sheff Utd, his subs helped us win the games. Maybe he's getting better at that?
He needs to be backed in the next transfer window.
posted on 2/7/20
I actually think a big problem will be the fans. I used to think we were quite a patient bunch but not anymore.
I blame AFTV for a lot of that as you hear them say "I will give him time but if he doesn't get top 4 then he must go". Thats a very contradictory statement that basically says immediate success or go.
That I believe has encouraged a lot of our fanbase to expect too much too quick.
When I say we should give him time, I am talking years not months.
If United had listened to a lot of their fans, Solksjaer would have been out 12 months ago. They have stuck with him and they are starting to see some improvements.
I actually think we should give Arteta 2/3 years even if we don't hit our targets immediately. If we do that then I don't think it will be long till we improve based on Arteta gaining more experience as a manager and building a squad more to his taste.
posted on 2/7/20
Samir, this...
"After using Mesut Ozil in most games before the break, Mr Arteta has not involved him since."
Is what explains this...
"Nketiah and Aubameyang's goals against Southampton and Norwich respectively also signify that our strikers are pressing from the front and looking to capitalise on tardiness from opposition goalkeepers. We didn't really see this level of aggression or tenacity in our game pre-Arteta."
EVERYONE behind them is now doing their bit, meaning they can. Also we did see this pre Arteta, last season, when the same man was frozen out. When Emery dropped him, one of the first things to happen was we started to press the ball effectively again. The hustle and the errors it forces makes the difference when your defence is as weak as ours.
DJ
So was he dropped or did he take himself out due to Covid and fasting? Only important to me regarding how Guendouzi has been handled. Either way, it actually got me to watch these soulless games. him not being there makes it semi enjoyable.
Liking what I'm seeing from the team but it's nothing I didn't expect given the above-mentioned. Not convinced we need as much transfer activity as some.
I think these current MFs could still flourish yet. Everyone is concerned about creativity given the team circumstances and theirs as youngsters, It hasn't been the time at AFC for creativity. Nelson and Willock in particular have had little chance to use that aspect of their play since we've lived under the kosh in games for ages. We're never really in control so it's easy for a less confident youngster, to just "Not risk itr for now, don't wanna be flash, I'll just keep it simple" Saka/Martinelli/Guendouzi totally different personalities to Willock/Nelson. The latter need to build and grow into their confidence. First three have oozed it since birth.
For now, you know what I want to see continue happening without it being said. Because it's led the way to these results. Even losing some games, the long-term curve will continue upward if it does. Also I want this Guendouzi/Arteta beef squashed quickly as well. Something Lex said the other day about giving Guen' the same as Ozil, got me thinking.
People have jumped on this discipline thing like they cared before Arteta said anything. Don't know what went on at other teams but my view here is it's not surprising he's acted up as much as he has, forced to sit on the bench watching Ozil thinking "I KNOW I could do better than that crap." And he could. No he can't split the atom with a pass like Ozil can but all around he offers MORE than him. So I see where he's coming from. Poorly handled yes but same could be said of Arteta here I think. Not every arrogant kid can be dealt with this way. Some need the responsibility to make the step as opposed to being told make the step and you get the responsibility.
I think Guen is one of those. We know he can handle the responsibility when it drops to him, to the point we've seen him take the initiative, grab the responsibility when nobody wanted it and lead his team. So let him lead it (match tactically I mean, not captain yet). Whatever growing he has to do will happen real fast when he's forced to be a grown up because HE has to set an example.
Guen is the closest thing to Viera we've had since Viera. Seem to remember him having a fair few naughty step moments also. We have to build the future because we can't buy it and Guen is the key player to build the future MF around. IMO the only current MF up to that role. And at a time at AFC where nobody actually wants that responsibility in MF, he is screaming for it. That alone tells me he's ready to be given it and I think it'll work well. Both on that page, Arteta can teach him and he's capable of learning, the finer points of MF play, ON the job. So I hope this naughty step approach from Arteta doesn't go on for long. Personally I think that Guen deserved a little more credit about his value on the pitch, than he's been given here. Actually don't think Arteta would take this approach had he been a part of AFC last season and seen more of Guen from that perspective. He was busy watching City players and wouldn't exactly have had to spend long with game tapes for the games against us. In fact I doubt they even bothered to watch any
posted on 2/7/20
For me arteta has made us more solid, especially at the back. However, as many have already suggested, the style of football is very turgid and similar level to what Emery had
The majority of the attacks come from the flanks with less emphasis on a playmaker to make the difference through the middle.
Saying that, we still need a midfielder who can control a game and provide for the attack.
Willock, AMN and Co are not the answer
Will be interesting to see what arteta buys in the summer
posted on 2/7/20
comment by Castor Troy (U8700)
posted 7 minutes ago
For me arteta has made us more solid, especially at the back. However, as many have already suggested, the style of football is very turgid and similar level to what Emery had
The majority of the attacks come from the flanks with less emphasis on a playmaker to make the difference through the middle.
Saying that, we still need a midfielder who can control a game and provide for the attack.
Willock, AMN and Co are not the answer
Will be interesting to see what arteta buys in the summer
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The answer is an Arteta trained Guendouzi. He will provide the same work rate as the other three whilst becoming the playmaker naturally. Not every playmaker does it the way Ozil does, thank god. Guen doesn't need anywhere near Ozil's passing range because he runs the ball so much more.
I also still like Ceballos for the No 10 role if he's staying another year. I think we could build around him if we bought him but see Guen as the natural leader that'll thrive faster. Either one of them for me, is enough for now, whilst we sort the defence. I don't want to see another window where we get an MF or attacker when it's our defence that's dire.
Fix the defence permanently first. THEN we can worry about buying a new flash git for MF, assuming that Ceballos or Guendouzi fails to step up in the meantime. Right now, what we need most is their energy and fight it MF. It's buys our defence the time they need to cope and forces errors which get us goals too. Also, the more familiar they all become as an Ozil free unit, is the more secure they will begin to feel about being creative and tricky. Much easier to risk losing the ball, when you're confident that if you do, you and ya boys can just go and hustle it back. Ozil on and near you and losing the ball could mean an 80yd counter attack and ball in net your end. Why because it was HIM who needed to go after that ball/man. Time for an in match comfort zone to develop and you might just start to see a little more flare in their play. Applies to Nelson in particular. He's way more talented than he's shown this season.
posted on 2/7/20
With games coming up against the top 3 and totteringham after 6th place Wolves our results under Arteta could well be worse than before him very soon.
Dont let a result against rock bottom Norwich fool you, we are not in a good place. Our football is slow and boring. Look at our away record under Arteta, 2 in (in an empty stadium), 3 draws and 2 loses. Not great.
Take the Brighton game, they sat deep and allowed us to have the ball in front of them and didnt allow any room or time once we hit their defensive lines. Compare that to Sheffield who let out players have room off the ball and closed them down once they received it. When Brighton got the ball they cut through our midfield quickly and with ease, which left our defence under massive pressure. Sheffield played a slower build up which gave us time to organise better. Both games were 1-1 at 90 minutes, but Brighton looked far better against us and the final results reflected that.
We are flat track bullies against poor teams who try to play their own game, but teams better than us or teams that stop us playing our game and we struggle.
posted on 2/7/20
With games coming up against the top 3 and totteringham after 6th place Wolves our results under Arteta could well be worse than before him very soon.
-----
Doubtful. He'll do better out of that lot than you think and end up lumbering us with EL again next year. Which is they LAST thing this team needs unfortunately.
posted on 2/7/20
20 years of a bad culture cannot be erased in one or even two seasons. He needs TIME and a patient fanbase backing him all the way. One day Arteta is going to win league titles,if we are stupid,it will be with another club.
posted on 2/7/20
I just reread my post and apolgise for all the typos. We have 1 away win under Arteta so far I typed "2 in"
posted on 2/7/20
comment by Tyke (U9181)
posted 2 hours, 27 minutes ago
20 years of a bad culture cannot be erased in one or even two seasons. He needs TIME and a patient fanbase backing him all the way. One day Arteta is going to win league titles,if we are stupid,it will be with another club.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
erm, the Invincibles were only 16 years ago.
posted on 3/7/20
comment by Everywhere you go always take Lamela with you. (U7905)
posted 13 hours, 44 minutes ago
I think he's done a good job. Aubamayang aside your team is generally of midtable quality.
Seems like he has more of a plan than Emery did this season.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Midtable quality u say yet their above your Bottlers in the league, what does that say about your Hapless club?
Page 1 of 1