Turned off at 1-3 too. As soon as Martial was sent Todd you could see it coming.
Martial before this game has been out of sorts. Ponderous, disinterested and getting easily shoved off the ball: all his worst traits.
Maguire: disaster, same as lindeloaf. Baily was not at fault yesterday but our defence is a joke.
Ole persists in his midfield of 2(immobile Matic and lazy pogba who just recovered from covid)
Spurs exploitied that midfield yesterday.
Luke shaw now has competition.
The summary is Ole can see the setup is wrong yet stubbornly keeps doing the same thing.
And for that and resurgence of so called smaller teams, i dont see us as favourite for top 4.
Just hope Pochettino is still available by the time we collectively come around to reality
Woodward is not going to sack himself, so the non wishful thinking is the manager is thrown out once we finish outside top 4
Just a quick word from the other side of the Penines. First of all, Spurs are a very good side and are capable of walloping anybody on their day. Mourinho was up for it, Spurs were up for it, United looked shell-shocked.
Secondly, the red card was ridiculous. How the ref and the linesman bought that is beyond me. If Martial got red for that, Lemala should have seen red for bringing the game into disrepute, it was that blatant a play to the ref.
Thirdly, ffs, take a chill pill. Ole performed miracles last season. This result does not make him a bad manager. I am sure you will see a more effective United in 2 weeks. Best wishes, until you meet us, that is.
“Baily was not at fault yesterday but our defence is a joke.“
What? At 2-1 down, just down to ten men you do not gift the opposition a goal by trying to play across your own box.
The first two weren’t directly his fault but he could certainly have don’t better with his clearance for the first, and followed his runner for the second.
comment by All the Bielsa ringing (U19827)
posted 12 minutes ago
Just a quick word from the other side of the Penines. First of all, Spurs are a very good side and are capable of walloping anybody on their day. Mourinho was up for it, Spurs were up for it, United looked shell-shocked.
Secondly, the red card was ridiculous. How the ref and the linesman bought that is beyond me. If Martial got red for that, Lemala should have seen red for bringing the game into disrepute, it was that blatant a play to the ref.
Thirdly, ffs, take a chill pill. Ole performed miracles last season. This result does not make him a bad manager. I am sure you will see a more effective United in 2 weeks. Best wishes, until you meet us, that is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If only our own fans were this level headed.
I was pessimistic before the weekend... Said on here we might have a battle for top 6
Yet again we haven't strengthen enough and again we have prioritised the wrong position
We need a cb... We have needed a better more mobile than DM than Matic, this has been needed for years, especially if we're persisting with pogba
Telles and Cavani aren't enough to change my mind... Dembele if it comes off isn't enough to change my mind either
We'll still be slow and unable to cope with a press through the middle
If we insist on 4231... We're better off with Fred and McTominay in the middle, at least they'll not be as passive
We'll get better... We're not fit yet... But I think we're in for a rough season and Ole will pay the price
Ed and Judge should be gone, we all know that just as we all know they won't be as they're Glazers people
Ole can't really be excused for me either if he continues with Pogba, Matic, 4231.... He's been let down no doubt... But I'd still take smalling over any of our other cbs
I still love the guy, hero for me... I'll not dish abuse like some on here... But he'll be gone soon
I've no real enthusiasm for Poch or Allegri tbh... Our squad doesn't suit their tactics at all... Feel a bit resigned to us continuing the cycle of half hearted rebuild for a while yet
Disillusioned... Pessimistic... Resigned...
“Baily was not at fault yesterday but our defence is a joke.“
-----------------
Must have been watching a different game
The players don’t seem to be keen to keep Ole in the job. The second half yesterday was telling. Zero fight and Pogba smiling when giving away a penalty.
Under SAF, even at 4-1 down at half time there would be some fight. Even if it still ended up in a loss. But not a single shot on target yesterday in 89 minutes. No urgency at all once we came out.
With the fixture list we have coming up it’s only going to get worse. I’d imagine Ole will be gone by the end of November and one of Poch or Allegri will be in the role.
People use defeatist language like ‘no manager will succeed under this ownership’ but better managers will do better. That’s just a fact. The very least we can expect from a United manager is to try and navigate out of the mess we’re in right now (equaled the record for the most goals conceded after three PL games - and could have been much worse if Brighton knew how to finish). The next few weeks will tell us how good Ole is at arresting a slide.
comment by Robb Pacino (U22311)
posted 1 minute ago
The players don’t seem to be keen to keep Ole in the job. The second half yesterday was telling. Zero fight and Pogba smiling when giving away a penalty.
Under SAF, even at 4-1 down at half time there would be some fight. Even if it still ended up in a loss. But not a single shot on target yesterday in 89 minutes. No urgency at all once we came out.
With the fixture list we have coming up it’s only going to get worse. I’d imagine Ole will be gone by the end of November and one of Poch or Allegri will be in the role.
People use defeatist language like ‘no manager will succeed under this ownership’ but better managers will do better. That’s just a fact. The very least we can expect from a United manager is to try and navigate out of the mess we’re in right now (equaled the record for the most goals conceded after three PL games - and could have been much worse if Brighton knew how to finish). The next few weeks will tell us how good Ole is at arresting a slide.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
With the squad he had last season, I thought we performed just about as well as we could have possibly hoped. A cup win would have been nice, but third place was as good a result in the league as anyone might have achieved.
We’re going to learn a lot about Ole and the players in the next couple of weeks. It’ll take a miracle to string a few victories together now. If they can manage it, it’ll be a real sign of mental fortitude.
If, on the other hand, we continue to stumble, the boss might well be out of a job, and Woodward and his crew will spin the wheel again.
The players don’t seem to be keen to keep Ole in the job. The second half yesterday was telling. Zero fight and Pogba smiling when giving away a penalty.
------------
Don't even think its about ole from the players point of view
Some are just spineless
I'd gladly never see Pogba in the shirt again btw
I cringe at the social media posts from some last night about they hurt like us... Do they f**k... Rashford and Brandon do, McT... The rest nah
I think Pogba is a very good player when everything is going well and he’s the cherry on the cake but when the chips are down he’s often invisible.
The only time that comes to mind where he really stepped up in a war was the 3-2 win we had at City in Joses second season. But more the exception than the rule.
And Don, before you come and smash me with a mace for slating just Pogba, pretty much everyone is in the same boat right now. The stat that showed McT completed the most dribbles yesterday tells a story in itself.
comment by Robb Pacino (U22311)
posted 1 minute ago
I think Pogba is a very good player when everything is going well and he’s the cherry on the cake but when the chips are down he’s often invisible.
The only time that comes to mind where he really stepped up in a war was the 3-2 win we had at City in Joses second season. But more the exception than the rule.
And Don, before you come and smash me with a mace for slating just Pogba, pretty much everyone is in the same boat right now. The stat that showed McT completed the most dribbles yesterday tells a story in itself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m a bit fed up of seeing players backing out of 50-50s.
Pogba, Bruno and AWB are all particularly guilty of this, and it just shouldn’ t happen.
Not sure what the coaching staff are doing about that, but I’d have all of the players sat together watching a video of yesterday’s game back and pausing it to call out every single time it happened.
In terms of season expectations I think at this point it’s silly to come up with a generic number in the league
What we should be expecting is a solid defence, a balanced midfield and an attack that offers a bit of everything. Pace in a counter attack but also the grit to score goals against a packed defence.
Right now we don’t have a plan B when we’re not counter attacking or getting penalties. Teams have worked us out since last season. We need to find a way past this to once and for all see if a Ole has the tactical nous to be a United manager.
The CBs obviously have not covered themselves in glory at all, but they are not the main problem from a defensive point of view. The bigger issue is that we are just a disorganised mess at the moment. The defensive shape of the team is just horrible. Full backs seem constantly out of position, the press is not working, and we are nowhere near compact enough - there are huge gaps all over the pitch.
You are right OP in that the warning signs were there against Palace and Brighton, yet going by yesterday I can't really see what's been done to address it.
Listen, I like a lot of what Ole's done but a lot of this is on him. There's only so much you can put on the transfers and pre season - neither are an excuse for what we saw yesterday. If he doesn't get this right soon he will find himself in trouble.
comment by Robb Pacino (U22311)
posted 1 hour, 42 minutes ago
And Don, before you come and smash me with a mace for slating just Pogba, pretty much everyone is in the same boat right now. The stat that showed McT completed the most dribbles yesterday tells a story in itself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i've only just finished breakfast, there'll be no mace just yet.
though i will just say that despite this being obviously true - pretty much everyone is in the same boat right now - it is predictable that pogba seems to be attracting much of the blame (c. 10 x more than matic for instance).
and for all those thinking that swapping player x for player y will make all the difference, that didn't really work with lindelof/bailly did it?
so who can we swap next game? well telles is hopefully fit, because shaw was bizarrely rotten yesterday. do we want a lindelof/bailly CB pairing? TFM at RB? From what I can see VDB is first reserve for bruno, would he replace pogba, or fred? and we'd better hope cavani's hamstrings are up to it, otherwise it's 3 games of odion (i guess flicking a player's face counts as "violent conduct"?)
comment by rosso - for your protection, we’ve
Not sure what the coaching staff are doing about that, but I’d have all of the players sat together watching a video of yesterday’s game back and pausing it to call out every single time it happened.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
personally i like this public naming and shaming approach - especially when the entire team is being shamed for being sh!t - but i wonder if we do this kind of thing? to be honest, i often wonder what our coaches do, period.
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Season Expectations
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posted on 5/10/20
Turned off at 1-3 too. As soon as Martial was sent Todd you could see it coming.
posted on 5/10/20
Martial before this game has been out of sorts. Ponderous, disinterested and getting easily shoved off the ball: all his worst traits.
Maguire: disaster, same as lindeloaf. Baily was not at fault yesterday but our defence is a joke.
Ole persists in his midfield of 2(immobile Matic and lazy pogba who just recovered from covid)
Spurs exploitied that midfield yesterday.
Luke shaw now has competition.
The summary is Ole can see the setup is wrong yet stubbornly keeps doing the same thing.
And for that and resurgence of so called smaller teams, i dont see us as favourite for top 4.
Just hope Pochettino is still available by the time we collectively come around to reality
posted on 5/10/20
Woodward is not going to sack himself, so the non wishful thinking is the manager is thrown out once we finish outside top 4
posted on 5/10/20
Just a quick word from the other side of the Penines. First of all, Spurs are a very good side and are capable of walloping anybody on their day. Mourinho was up for it, Spurs were up for it, United looked shell-shocked.
Secondly, the red card was ridiculous. How the ref and the linesman bought that is beyond me. If Martial got red for that, Lemala should have seen red for bringing the game into disrepute, it was that blatant a play to the ref.
Thirdly, ffs, take a chill pill. Ole performed miracles last season. This result does not make him a bad manager. I am sure you will see a more effective United in 2 weeks. Best wishes, until you meet us, that is.
posted on 5/10/20
“Baily was not at fault yesterday but our defence is a joke.“
What? At 2-1 down, just down to ten men you do not gift the opposition a goal by trying to play across your own box.
The first two weren’t directly his fault but he could certainly have don’t better with his clearance for the first, and followed his runner for the second.
posted on 5/10/20
comment by All the Bielsa ringing (U19827)
posted 12 minutes ago
Just a quick word from the other side of the Penines. First of all, Spurs are a very good side and are capable of walloping anybody on their day. Mourinho was up for it, Spurs were up for it, United looked shell-shocked.
Secondly, the red card was ridiculous. How the ref and the linesman bought that is beyond me. If Martial got red for that, Lemala should have seen red for bringing the game into disrepute, it was that blatant a play to the ref.
Thirdly, ffs, take a chill pill. Ole performed miracles last season. This result does not make him a bad manager. I am sure you will see a more effective United in 2 weeks. Best wishes, until you meet us, that is.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If only our own fans were this level headed.
posted on 5/10/20
I was pessimistic before the weekend... Said on here we might have a battle for top 6
Yet again we haven't strengthen enough and again we have prioritised the wrong position
We need a cb... We have needed a better more mobile than DM than Matic, this has been needed for years, especially if we're persisting with pogba
Telles and Cavani aren't enough to change my mind... Dembele if it comes off isn't enough to change my mind either
We'll still be slow and unable to cope with a press through the middle
If we insist on 4231... We're better off with Fred and McTominay in the middle, at least they'll not be as passive
We'll get better... We're not fit yet... But I think we're in for a rough season and Ole will pay the price
Ed and Judge should be gone, we all know that just as we all know they won't be as they're Glazers people
Ole can't really be excused for me either if he continues with Pogba, Matic, 4231.... He's been let down no doubt... But I'd still take smalling over any of our other cbs
I still love the guy, hero for me... I'll not dish abuse like some on here... But he'll be gone soon
I've no real enthusiasm for Poch or Allegri tbh... Our squad doesn't suit their tactics at all... Feel a bit resigned to us continuing the cycle of half hearted rebuild for a while yet
Disillusioned... Pessimistic... Resigned...
posted on 5/10/20
“Baily was not at fault yesterday but our defence is a joke.“
-----------------
Must have been watching a different game
posted on 5/10/20
The players don’t seem to be keen to keep Ole in the job. The second half yesterday was telling. Zero fight and Pogba smiling when giving away a penalty.
Under SAF, even at 4-1 down at half time there would be some fight. Even if it still ended up in a loss. But not a single shot on target yesterday in 89 minutes. No urgency at all once we came out.
With the fixture list we have coming up it’s only going to get worse. I’d imagine Ole will be gone by the end of November and one of Poch or Allegri will be in the role.
People use defeatist language like ‘no manager will succeed under this ownership’ but better managers will do better. That’s just a fact. The very least we can expect from a United manager is to try and navigate out of the mess we’re in right now (equaled the record for the most goals conceded after three PL games - and could have been much worse if Brighton knew how to finish). The next few weeks will tell us how good Ole is at arresting a slide.
posted on 5/10/20
comment by Robb Pacino (U22311)
posted 1 minute ago
The players don’t seem to be keen to keep Ole in the job. The second half yesterday was telling. Zero fight and Pogba smiling when giving away a penalty.
Under SAF, even at 4-1 down at half time there would be some fight. Even if it still ended up in a loss. But not a single shot on target yesterday in 89 minutes. No urgency at all once we came out.
With the fixture list we have coming up it’s only going to get worse. I’d imagine Ole will be gone by the end of November and one of Poch or Allegri will be in the role.
People use defeatist language like ‘no manager will succeed under this ownership’ but better managers will do better. That’s just a fact. The very least we can expect from a United manager is to try and navigate out of the mess we’re in right now (equaled the record for the most goals conceded after three PL games - and could have been much worse if Brighton knew how to finish). The next few weeks will tell us how good Ole is at arresting a slide.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
With the squad he had last season, I thought we performed just about as well as we could have possibly hoped. A cup win would have been nice, but third place was as good a result in the league as anyone might have achieved.
We’re going to learn a lot about Ole and the players in the next couple of weeks. It’ll take a miracle to string a few victories together now. If they can manage it, it’ll be a real sign of mental fortitude.
If, on the other hand, we continue to stumble, the boss might well be out of a job, and Woodward and his crew will spin the wheel again.
posted on 5/10/20
The players don’t seem to be keen to keep Ole in the job. The second half yesterday was telling. Zero fight and Pogba smiling when giving away a penalty.
------------
Don't even think its about ole from the players point of view
Some are just spineless
I'd gladly never see Pogba in the shirt again btw
I cringe at the social media posts from some last night about they hurt like us... Do they f**k... Rashford and Brandon do, McT... The rest nah
posted on 5/10/20
I think Pogba is a very good player when everything is going well and he’s the cherry on the cake but when the chips are down he’s often invisible.
The only time that comes to mind where he really stepped up in a war was the 3-2 win we had at City in Joses second season. But more the exception than the rule.
And Don, before you come and smash me with a mace for slating just Pogba, pretty much everyone is in the same boat right now. The stat that showed McT completed the most dribbles yesterday tells a story in itself.
posted on 5/10/20
comment by Robb Pacino (U22311)
posted 1 minute ago
I think Pogba is a very good player when everything is going well and he’s the cherry on the cake but when the chips are down he’s often invisible.
The only time that comes to mind where he really stepped up in a war was the 3-2 win we had at City in Joses second season. But more the exception than the rule.
And Don, before you come and smash me with a mace for slating just Pogba, pretty much everyone is in the same boat right now. The stat that showed McT completed the most dribbles yesterday tells a story in itself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’m a bit fed up of seeing players backing out of 50-50s.
Pogba, Bruno and AWB are all particularly guilty of this, and it just shouldn’ t happen.
Not sure what the coaching staff are doing about that, but I’d have all of the players sat together watching a video of yesterday’s game back and pausing it to call out every single time it happened.
posted on 5/10/20
In terms of season expectations I think at this point it’s silly to come up with a generic number in the league
What we should be expecting is a solid defence, a balanced midfield and an attack that offers a bit of everything. Pace in a counter attack but also the grit to score goals against a packed defence.
Right now we don’t have a plan B when we’re not counter attacking or getting penalties. Teams have worked us out since last season. We need to find a way past this to once and for all see if a Ole has the tactical nous to be a United manager.
posted on 5/10/20
The CBs obviously have not covered themselves in glory at all, but they are not the main problem from a defensive point of view. The bigger issue is that we are just a disorganised mess at the moment. The defensive shape of the team is just horrible. Full backs seem constantly out of position, the press is not working, and we are nowhere near compact enough - there are huge gaps all over the pitch.
You are right OP in that the warning signs were there against Palace and Brighton, yet going by yesterday I can't really see what's been done to address it.
Listen, I like a lot of what Ole's done but a lot of this is on him. There's only so much you can put on the transfers and pre season - neither are an excuse for what we saw yesterday. If he doesn't get this right soon he will find himself in trouble.
posted on 5/10/20
comment by Robb Pacino (U22311)
posted 1 hour, 42 minutes ago
And Don, before you come and smash me with a mace for slating just Pogba, pretty much everyone is in the same boat right now. The stat that showed McT completed the most dribbles yesterday tells a story in itself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
i've only just finished breakfast, there'll be no mace just yet.
though i will just say that despite this being obviously true - pretty much everyone is in the same boat right now - it is predictable that pogba seems to be attracting much of the blame (c. 10 x more than matic for instance).
and for all those thinking that swapping player x for player y will make all the difference, that didn't really work with lindelof/bailly did it?
so who can we swap next game? well telles is hopefully fit, because shaw was bizarrely rotten yesterday. do we want a lindelof/bailly CB pairing? TFM at RB? From what I can see VDB is first reserve for bruno, would he replace pogba, or fred? and we'd better hope cavani's hamstrings are up to it, otherwise it's 3 games of odion (i guess flicking a player's face counts as "violent conduct"?)
posted on 5/10/20
comment by rosso - for your protection, we’ve
Not sure what the coaching staff are doing about that, but I’d have all of the players sat together watching a video of yesterday’s game back and pausing it to call out every single time it happened.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
personally i like this public naming and shaming approach - especially when the entire team is being shamed for being sh!t - but i wonder if we do this kind of thing? to be honest, i often wonder what our coaches do, period.
Page 1 of 1