comment by WB2 (Emery'll Get Me Killed) (U8276)
posted 41 seconds ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 9 minutes ago
Whatever negative things you say abt wilshere, he has just taken a huge financial hit to play football.
compare that to sok, kola and ozil.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And so he should after the way he took the greatest opportunity and spurned it on an ego trip.
Not singing those others you mentioned praises either. It bugs me when people talk about Wilshere in the same vein as other AFC youngsters whom injury ravaged, through no real fault of their own. Makes him sound like a victim of cruel fate. When he was in fact, a victim of his own ps poor attitude. It gives him credit he doesn't deserve.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
what did wilshere do wrong exactly. should he have gone to wenger to say don't play me at such a young age in cm knowing thats where you get heavy challenges?
Sounds like usual suspect is having another mare here, if anything Wenger didn't protect him enough and our sports science / medical department failed to help him much.
His game was about making late tricky passes and dribbles after drawing a player in to open up space and he was magnificent at it, you can't avoid bad luck and getting injured at times, particularly if you have weak ankles and are playing Premier League football.
Have we found someone WB2 hates more than Mesut?
Apparently...
I bet if you add up the total number of all the games where Wilshere was brilliant vs all the games Ozil was (for Arsenal) Jack wins by a landslide.
comment by V - We played a little bit with the handbrake (U7971)
posted 7 minutes ago
Have we found someone WB2 hates more than Mesut?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The mental gymnastics he uses is incredible.
Well.. Wilshere says in his statement that he has been fit for 8 months. Would you guys really be opposed to a pay as you play? Games will come thick and fast and a fit Wilshere, is better than Willock in that CM role. I am thinking of easy Carabao cup (we'd be lucky to get past City and even then, i doubt we'd get stoke or Barnsley) Europa league group stage and maybe some easy FA cup draws and even some lower league opposition.
I know I am playing devils advocate here, but we are crying for creativity in the middle and Ozil aint coming back it seems
Really is hard to believe that debut season of his was 10 yrs ago now. the injuries after that year ruined him, he never came back the same. Thought he would be captain one day.
Good luck to him, should've had a much better career than he did. Glad he won a couple of cups with us before he left.
Is he the fat little blobby fecker with a cheeky grin who mostly jogs around the pitch.
I'm sure he had cousins who had a TV programme back in the day, escapes me.
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 10 hours, 47 minutes ago
comment by WB2 (Emery'll Get Me Killed) (U8276)
posted 41 seconds ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 9 minutes ago
Whatever negative things you say abt wilshere, he has just taken a huge financial hit to play football.
compare that to sok, kola and ozil.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And so he should after the way he took the greatest opportunity and spurned it on an ego trip.
Not singing those others you mentioned praises either. It bugs me when people talk about Wilshere in the same vein as other AFC youngsters whom injury ravaged, through no real fault of their own. Makes him sound like a victim of cruel fate. When he was in fact, a victim of his own ps poor attitude. It gives him credit he doesn't deserve.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
what did wilshere do wrong exactly. should he have gone to wenger to say don't play me at such a young age in cm knowing thats where you get heavy challenges?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. He should have stopped hogging the ball so long and passed it sooner, so he didn't get crunched quite so often. He should have not repeatedly run head on into crossfires of sliding players. He also should have been committed to his football career enough to not smoke and spend quite so much time in night clubs and casinos. I concede it was Wenger's fault he was overplayed that first season. But the twerpish antics for years after were all Wilshere's own work.
Don't act like he was the devoted to his footy little angel, who done everything asked of him and took every precaution to protect himself. Then was cruelly struck down by unavoidable injury as some random act of fate. He wasn't. He was a kid with a hardheaded kid with a discipline problem, who refused to listen and do everything he could to minimize his chances of injury. And he has quite rightly paid the price for doing so.
comment by Donny The King van de Beek (U10026)
posted 10 hours, 32 minutes ago
comment by V - We played a little bit with the handbrake (U7971)
posted 7 minutes ago
Have we found someone WB2 hates more than Mesut?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The mental gymnastics he uses is incredible.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What's incredible is the way fans are now trying to rewrite the narrative around Wilshere, pretending he is a victim of anything other than his own poor discipline and ball hogging.
The consensus when he left was OMG get rid now, he's a waste of squad space. Shame and all but he's done it to himself being a d! ck all the time. Yet now, people are "What did he do wrong?" pretending he is a victim of cruel circumstance.
Unlike Ozil, I don't hate Wilshere himself, he always gave 100% on the pitch. But I do and have always hated, the hype because he's English. This pretending he never trashed his career mostly himself, is just an extension of that. "Oh well he was the great English hope, so we'll just lie about why he never truly made it."
WB2 you're very talented at making up little narratives in your head and then arguing against them as if they are hard facts. Quite a skill that.
All because Jack smoked a few times and the media made him out to be a troublemaker, so you've extrapolated that to paint him as an arrogant egotist who never listened to any of his coaches or managers.
You really do live in your own insane little world.
comment by WB2 (Emery'll Get Me Killed) (U8276)
posted 1 hour, 19 minutes ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 10 hours, 47 minutes ago
comment by WB2 (Emery'll Get Me Killed) (U8276)
posted 41 seconds ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 9 minutes ago
Whatever negative things you say abt wilshere, he has just taken a huge financial hit to play football.
compare that to sok, kola and ozil.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And so he should after the way he took the greatest opportunity and spurned it on an ego trip.
Not singing those others you mentioned praises either. It bugs me when people talk about Wilshere in the same vein as other AFC youngsters whom injury ravaged, through no real fault of their own. Makes him sound like a victim of cruel fate. When he was in fact, a victim of his own ps poor attitude. It gives him credit he doesn't deserve.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
what did wilshere do wrong exactly. should he have gone to wenger to say don't play me at such a young age in cm knowing thats where you get heavy challenges?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. He should have stopped hogging the ball so long and passed it sooner,
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thats his style. All players are different. Its up to the manager to fit them into a cohesive team. Wenger could have trained and positioned Wilshere to be an attacking midfield player. Many pundits said as much comparing him to Gazza. But he preferred to play him deeper knowing that he did not have the build for that role and almost all predicted the consequences apart from Wenger of course.
If that wasn't enough Wenger did exactly the same to Santi. A far more talented and experienced player. What happened to him? Was it Santi's fault that he got injured?
If people are serious about Wilshere returning () then what about Danny Welbeck, he's only 30 and Watford are letting him go for nothing - the man who could do everything except hit a barn door from 10 yards...
No one can be serious about Wilshere returning. Even on a pay as you play. But I do admire that he was willing to take a financial hit to play football.
We have had years of Ozil, Sok, Kola who are just moochers. We may not even include Ozil and Sok in our playing squad. But will they move on? Not if it means they lose a penny!
You should get Welbeck back and they can keep each other company in the treatment room.
comment by TheSkins (U3865)
posted 3 hours, 37 minutes ago
WB2 you're very talented at making up little narratives in your head and then arguing against them as if they are hard facts. Quite a skill that.
All because Jack smoked a few times and the media made him out to be a troublemaker, so you've extrapolated that to paint him as an arrogant egotist who never listened to any of his coaches or managers.
You really do live in your own insane little world.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I never said he was a troublemaker at all. Arrogant, of course he was arrogant. FGS that came across in the way he played. You HAVE to have a little bit of arrogance in you to be that creative. The problem is when a young player has so much arrogance, he refuses to learn a lesson for his own good.
The same injury type, gotten the same way. And the only thing he had to do to avoid most if not all of them. Is learn he can't dribble through everybody, all the time so don't try to and to release the ball a little sooner so he didn't get his ankles clattered quite so much.
I'm not making that up or being too harsh. That's what happened. Wilshere didn't HAVE to absorb all of those ankle impacts. His refusing to change his game SLIGHTLY to avoid them. Is the main cause of him doing so.
Jenius
Santi was an established, adult, already set in his ways player. Who'd grown up in a footballing culture that didn't play the way we do.. That's a very different thing to a kid who's at AFC to LEARN the way and is entirely familiar with English football culture's "As long as you get the ball first, it don't matter if you break his leg," attitude to tackling And it's love affair with "Leavin' some on 'im." There was no culture shock for him.
Wb2
You are getting hung up on player styles. My point was that even a player who did release the ball as you describe didn't last long playing in a deeper role in central midfield. Players like Pirlo were able to extend their career in Italy. In the prem an opposing manager would instruct their player to leave one on a skilful player. Did you see that challenge over the weekend on Auba? Sheff Utd, Burnley etc think that we are soft, a reputation we earned under Wenger. Something Arteta is changing.
The manager is responsible for the development of a player. Its his job to see deficiencies or capabilities and to encourage the player in a specific role as he develops. Wilshere learning to jump over an incoming challenge would not have helped him. Just look at Santi. Did it help him?
Not "Jump over tackles," Jenius. But pass/release the ball or shoot if you can, more often and sooner. Not difficult to do. I mean do you really think AW and many others didn't tell the kid that, numerous times. "Jack, you've GOT to start releasing the ball sooner and passing more. So you don't take so many sliding tackles." OF COURSE they did man. Because it's a basic coaching lesson firstly and secondly a critical lesson for a boy playing among men. You can't seriously blame Wenger for Wilshere not listening.
Also I pretty sure he played in each MF role and has blatantly gotten the same idiot injury, the same idiot way, in all 3 roles. He done it that many times. So the "It's Wenger's fault for playing him deep," argument, doesn't wash. Because it didn't matter where you played him, he STILL held the ball too long and took too many tackles that he didn't need to. And stop comparing it to Cazorla. He was fine for 3 got a couple of injuries then had problems with the op. That's an age away from Wilshere's same avoidable thing, the same avoidable way over and over again for 10 years. Being told for at least half of them "Stop doing that."
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Jack Wilshere
Page 2 of 2
posted on 5/10/20
comment by WB2 (Emery'll Get Me Killed) (U8276)
posted 41 seconds ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 9 minutes ago
Whatever negative things you say abt wilshere, he has just taken a huge financial hit to play football.
compare that to sok, kola and ozil.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And so he should after the way he took the greatest opportunity and spurned it on an ego trip.
Not singing those others you mentioned praises either. It bugs me when people talk about Wilshere in the same vein as other AFC youngsters whom injury ravaged, through no real fault of their own. Makes him sound like a victim of cruel fate. When he was in fact, a victim of his own ps poor attitude. It gives him credit he doesn't deserve.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
what did wilshere do wrong exactly. should he have gone to wenger to say don't play me at such a young age in cm knowing thats where you get heavy challenges?
posted on 5/10/20
Sounds like usual suspect is having another mare here, if anything Wenger didn't protect him enough and our sports science / medical department failed to help him much.
His game was about making late tricky passes and dribbles after drawing a player in to open up space and he was magnificent at it, you can't avoid bad luck and getting injured at times, particularly if you have weak ankles and are playing Premier League football.
posted on 5/10/20
Have we found someone WB2 hates more than Mesut?
posted on 5/10/20
Apparently...
I bet if you add up the total number of all the games where Wilshere was brilliant vs all the games Ozil was (for Arsenal) Jack wins by a landslide.
posted on 5/10/20
comment by V - We played a little bit with the handbrake (U7971)
posted 7 minutes ago
Have we found someone WB2 hates more than Mesut?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The mental gymnastics he uses is incredible.
posted on 6/10/20
Well.. Wilshere says in his statement that he has been fit for 8 months. Would you guys really be opposed to a pay as you play? Games will come thick and fast and a fit Wilshere, is better than Willock in that CM role. I am thinking of easy Carabao cup (we'd be lucky to get past City and even then, i doubt we'd get stoke or Barnsley) Europa league group stage and maybe some easy FA cup draws and even some lower league opposition.
I know I am playing devils advocate here, but we are crying for creativity in the middle and Ozil aint coming back it seems
posted on 6/10/20
Really is hard to believe that debut season of his was 10 yrs ago now. the injuries after that year ruined him, he never came back the same. Thought he would be captain one day.
Good luck to him, should've had a much better career than he did. Glad he won a couple of cups with us before he left.
posted on 6/10/20
Is he the fat little blobby fecker with a cheeky grin who mostly jogs around the pitch.
I'm sure he had cousins who had a TV programme back in the day, escapes me.
posted on 6/10/20
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 10 hours, 47 minutes ago
comment by WB2 (Emery'll Get Me Killed) (U8276)
posted 41 seconds ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 9 minutes ago
Whatever negative things you say abt wilshere, he has just taken a huge financial hit to play football.
compare that to sok, kola and ozil.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And so he should after the way he took the greatest opportunity and spurned it on an ego trip.
Not singing those others you mentioned praises either. It bugs me when people talk about Wilshere in the same vein as other AFC youngsters whom injury ravaged, through no real fault of their own. Makes him sound like a victim of cruel fate. When he was in fact, a victim of his own ps poor attitude. It gives him credit he doesn't deserve.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
what did wilshere do wrong exactly. should he have gone to wenger to say don't play me at such a young age in cm knowing thats where you get heavy challenges?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. He should have stopped hogging the ball so long and passed it sooner, so he didn't get crunched quite so often. He should have not repeatedly run head on into crossfires of sliding players. He also should have been committed to his football career enough to not smoke and spend quite so much time in night clubs and casinos. I concede it was Wenger's fault he was overplayed that first season. But the twerpish antics for years after were all Wilshere's own work.
Don't act like he was the devoted to his footy little angel, who done everything asked of him and took every precaution to protect himself. Then was cruelly struck down by unavoidable injury as some random act of fate. He wasn't. He was a kid with a hardheaded kid with a discipline problem, who refused to listen and do everything he could to minimize his chances of injury. And he has quite rightly paid the price for doing so.
posted on 6/10/20
comment by Donny The King van de Beek (U10026)
posted 10 hours, 32 minutes ago
comment by V - We played a little bit with the handbrake (U7971)
posted 7 minutes ago
Have we found someone WB2 hates more than Mesut?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The mental gymnastics he uses is incredible.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What's incredible is the way fans are now trying to rewrite the narrative around Wilshere, pretending he is a victim of anything other than his own poor discipline and ball hogging.
The consensus when he left was OMG get rid now, he's a waste of squad space. Shame and all but he's done it to himself being a d! ck all the time. Yet now, people are "What did he do wrong?" pretending he is a victim of cruel circumstance.
Unlike Ozil, I don't hate Wilshere himself, he always gave 100% on the pitch. But I do and have always hated, the hype because he's English. This pretending he never trashed his career mostly himself, is just an extension of that. "Oh well he was the great English hope, so we'll just lie about why he never truly made it."
posted on 6/10/20
WB2 you're very talented at making up little narratives in your head and then arguing against them as if they are hard facts. Quite a skill that.
All because Jack smoked a few times and the media made him out to be a troublemaker, so you've extrapolated that to paint him as an arrogant egotist who never listened to any of his coaches or managers.
You really do live in your own insane little world.
posted on 6/10/20
comment by WB2 (Emery'll Get Me Killed) (U8276)
posted 1 hour, 19 minutes ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 10 hours, 47 minutes ago
comment by WB2 (Emery'll Get Me Killed) (U8276)
posted 41 seconds ago
comment by Jenius99 (U4918)
posted 9 minutes ago
Whatever negative things you say abt wilshere, he has just taken a huge financial hit to play football.
compare that to sok, kola and ozil.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
And so he should after the way he took the greatest opportunity and spurned it on an ego trip.
Not singing those others you mentioned praises either. It bugs me when people talk about Wilshere in the same vein as other AFC youngsters whom injury ravaged, through no real fault of their own. Makes him sound like a victim of cruel fate. When he was in fact, a victim of his own ps poor attitude. It gives him credit he doesn't deserve.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
what did wilshere do wrong exactly. should he have gone to wenger to say don't play me at such a young age in cm knowing thats where you get heavy challenges?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No. He should have stopped hogging the ball so long and passed it sooner,
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thats his style. All players are different. Its up to the manager to fit them into a cohesive team. Wenger could have trained and positioned Wilshere to be an attacking midfield player. Many pundits said as much comparing him to Gazza. But he preferred to play him deeper knowing that he did not have the build for that role and almost all predicted the consequences apart from Wenger of course.
If that wasn't enough Wenger did exactly the same to Santi. A far more talented and experienced player. What happened to him? Was it Santi's fault that he got injured?
posted on 6/10/20
If people are serious about Wilshere returning () then what about Danny Welbeck, he's only 30 and Watford are letting him go for nothing - the man who could do everything except hit a barn door from 10 yards...
posted on 6/10/20
No one can be serious about Wilshere returning. Even on a pay as you play. But I do admire that he was willing to take a financial hit to play football.
We have had years of Ozil, Sok, Kola who are just moochers. We may not even include Ozil and Sok in our playing squad. But will they move on? Not if it means they lose a penny!
posted on 6/10/20
You should get Welbeck back and they can keep each other company in the treatment room.
posted on 6/10/20
comment by TheSkins (U3865)
posted 3 hours, 37 minutes ago
WB2 you're very talented at making up little narratives in your head and then arguing against them as if they are hard facts. Quite a skill that.
All because Jack smoked a few times and the media made him out to be a troublemaker, so you've extrapolated that to paint him as an arrogant egotist who never listened to any of his coaches or managers.
You really do live in your own insane little world.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I never said he was a troublemaker at all. Arrogant, of course he was arrogant. FGS that came across in the way he played. You HAVE to have a little bit of arrogance in you to be that creative. The problem is when a young player has so much arrogance, he refuses to learn a lesson for his own good.
The same injury type, gotten the same way. And the only thing he had to do to avoid most if not all of them. Is learn he can't dribble through everybody, all the time so don't try to and to release the ball a little sooner so he didn't get his ankles clattered quite so much.
I'm not making that up or being too harsh. That's what happened. Wilshere didn't HAVE to absorb all of those ankle impacts. His refusing to change his game SLIGHTLY to avoid them. Is the main cause of him doing so.
posted on 6/10/20
Jenius
Santi was an established, adult, already set in his ways player. Who'd grown up in a footballing culture that didn't play the way we do.. That's a very different thing to a kid who's at AFC to LEARN the way and is entirely familiar with English football culture's "As long as you get the ball first, it don't matter if you break his leg," attitude to tackling And it's love affair with "Leavin' some on 'im." There was no culture shock for him.
posted on 6/10/20
Wb2
You are getting hung up on player styles. My point was that even a player who did release the ball as you describe didn't last long playing in a deeper role in central midfield. Players like Pirlo were able to extend their career in Italy. In the prem an opposing manager would instruct their player to leave one on a skilful player. Did you see that challenge over the weekend on Auba? Sheff Utd, Burnley etc think that we are soft, a reputation we earned under Wenger. Something Arteta is changing.
The manager is responsible for the development of a player. Its his job to see deficiencies or capabilities and to encourage the player in a specific role as he develops. Wilshere learning to jump over an incoming challenge would not have helped him. Just look at Santi. Did it help him?
posted on 6/10/20
Not "Jump over tackles," Jenius. But pass/release the ball or shoot if you can, more often and sooner. Not difficult to do. I mean do you really think AW and many others didn't tell the kid that, numerous times. "Jack, you've GOT to start releasing the ball sooner and passing more. So you don't take so many sliding tackles." OF COURSE they did man. Because it's a basic coaching lesson firstly and secondly a critical lesson for a boy playing among men. You can't seriously blame Wenger for Wilshere not listening.
Also I pretty sure he played in each MF role and has blatantly gotten the same idiot injury, the same idiot way, in all 3 roles. He done it that many times. So the "It's Wenger's fault for playing him deep," argument, doesn't wash. Because it didn't matter where you played him, he STILL held the ball too long and took too many tackles that he didn't need to. And stop comparing it to Cazorla. He was fine for 3 got a couple of injuries then had problems with the op. That's an age away from Wilshere's same avoidable thing, the same avoidable way over and over again for 10 years. Being told for at least half of them "Stop doing that."
Page 2 of 2